Agenda Document Pack - Education and Children's Services Policy Board - 23/05/2024
Renfrewshire Council · 23 May 2024
Back to Education and Children's Services Policy Board — 23 May 2024 and its agenda
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16/05/2024 Notice of Meeting and Agenda Education and Children's Services Policy Board Date Time Venue Thursday, 23 May 2024 13:00 Council Chambers (Renfrewshire), Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley, PA1 1AN Membership Councillor Emma Rodden (Convener): Councillor Jim Paterson (Depute Convener): Councillor Jennifer Adam: Councillor Fiona Airlie-Nicolson: Ms Mary Jane Bird: Provost Lorraine Cameron: Councillor Carolann Davidson: Councillor Audrey Doig: Councillor Edward Grady: Councillor Gillian Graham: Councillor Anne Hannigan: Councillor Lisa-Marie Hughes: Councillor Alec Leishman: Councillor David McGonigle: Councillor Iain McMillan: Councillor Will Mylet: Mr Jack Nellaney: Councillor Iain Nicolson: Mr Ravinder Singh: Councillor Ben Smith: Hybrid Meeting Please note that this meeting is scheduled to be held in the Council Chambers. However, it is a hybrid meeting and arrangements have been made for members to join the meeting remotely should they wish. Members of the Press and Public Members of the press and public wishing to attend the meeting should report to the customer service centre where they will be met and directed to the meeting. Further Information This is a meeting which is open to members of the public. A copy of the agenda and reports for this meeting will be available for inspection prior to the meeting at the Customer Service Centre, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley and online at http://renfrewshire.cmis.uk.com/renfrewshire/CouncilandBoards.aspx For further information, please email democratic-services@renfrewshire.gov.uk MARK CONAGHAN Head of Corporate Governance Page 1 of 503
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16/05/2024 Webcasting of Meeting This meeting will be filmed for live or subsequent broadcast via the Council’s internet site – at the start of the meeting the Convener will confirm if all or part of the meeting is being filmed. To find the webcast please navigate to https://renfrewshire.public-i.tv/core/portal/home Page 2 of 503
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16/05/2024 Items of business Apologies Apologies from members. Declarations of Interest and Transparency Statements Members are asked to declare an interest or make a transparency statement in any item(s) on the agenda and to provide a brief explanation of the nature of the interest or the transparency statement. 1 Education Scotland Inspection of Brediland Primary School Report by the Director of Children's Services. 5 - 10 2 Education Scotland Inspection of Williamsburgh Primary School and Early Learning and Childcare Class Report by the Director of Children's Services. 11 - 18 3 Early Learning and Childcare – Payment of Sustainable Rates to Funded Providers Report by the Director of Children's Services. 19 - 25 4 Duty of Candour – Annual Report Report by the Director of Children's Services. 26 - 31 5 Children’s Services Reform Research: Learning and Implications for Scotland and Renfrewshire Service Reform Report by the Director of Children's Services. 32 - 80 6 Joint inspection of services for children at risk of harm in Renfrewshire Report by the Director of Children's Services. 81 - 89 7 Inclusion Update Report by the Director of Children's Services. 90 - 97 Page 3 of 503
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16/05/2024 8 Children’s Services Service Improvement Plan 2023/24 Outturn Report Report by the Director of Children's Services. 98 - 141 9 Children’s Services 2024-2027 Service Improvement Plan Report by the Director of Children's Services. 142 - 177 10 Children’s Services Health and Well Being Strategy Update 2023/2024 Report by the Director of Children's Services. 178 - 185 11 West Partnership Improvement Collaborative Update Report for 2024-25 and beyond Report by the Director of Children's Services. 186 - 190 12 Learning Estate Update Report by the Interim Head of Education. 191 - 196 13 Consultation arrangements regarding the proposal to establish a new primary school in Dargavel Village and a Catchment Review Affecting Dargavel Primary School and a new primary school to be built at Dargavel Village Report by the Director of Children's Services. 197 - 498 14 Education Scotland Inspections of Renfrewshire Schools Report by the Director of Children's Services. 499 - 503 Page 4 of 503
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1 ___________________________________________________________________ To: Education and Children’s Services Policy Board On: 23 May 2024 ___________________________________________________________________ Report by: Director of Children’s Services ___________________________________________________________________ Heading: Education Scotland Inspection of Brediland Primary School ___________________________________________________________________ 1. Summary 1.1 Brediland Primary School was inspected by Education Scotland in January 2024 as part of a national sample of education. Education Scotland uses different models of inspection and at Brediland Primary School the short model approach was deployed. Inspectors assessed the school with a focus on two quality indicators which are referenced in How Good is our School? 4 Quality Indicator 2.3 Learning, teaching and assessment. Quality Indicator 3.2 Raising attainment and achievement. 1.2 This was a very positive inspection which evaluated all quality indicators as Quality Indicator 2.3 Good Quality Indicator 3.2 Good 1.3 As part of the inspection model the following area was also reviewed: Quality Indicator 2.1 Safeguarding 1.4 Education Scotland do not attach an evaluative grade to this. Instead in the Summary of Inspection Findings there are evaluative statements provided which are positive and contribute to the overall school ratings. 1.5 The inspection report in the form of a letter to parents, published by Education Scotland on 12 March 2024, is attached as an appendix to this report and is also available from the Director of Children’s Services or from the Education Scotland website. Item 1 Page 5 of 503
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2 1.6 The letter to parents identified four key strengths of the school. Staff across the school promote positive, trusting relationships and create calm and purposeful learning environments. They work well together to ensure children and families feel a strong sense of belonging. Children are proud of their school. They demonstrate an eagerness and motivation to learn. Staff across the school know children and their families very well. Working effectively with parents and partners, they provide a range of effective supports to reduce barriers to children’s learning. Senior leaders have led effective improvements in the teaching of literacy and numeracy. As a result, most children are making good progress in their learning. 1.7 The inspection report also identified two areas for further improvement: Senior leaders should continue to review their processes for checking how well children progress and attain over time. Staff should continue to improve approaches to planning assessment and moderation of learning and teaching to ensure all children enjoy consistently high-quality experiences across the curriculum. 1.8 There is an agreed set of procedures for responding to inspection reports which will support the school and Children’s Services to plan how the area for further improvement will be addressed. Actions are detailed within the school improvement plan which is shared with parents. In addition, the school will be supported in its improvement journey by Children’s Services. ___________________________________________________________________ 2. Recommendations 2.1 Members of the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board are asked to note and celebrate the key strengths and recognise the areas for further improvement in the Education Scotland report on Brediland Primary School. ___________________________________________________________________ 3. Background 3.1 Following a pause to inspections due to the pandemic, Education Scotland’s routine programme of inspection of schools and early years settings resumed in September 2022. Children’s Services welcomes the process of audit undertaken by Education Scotland as supportive to continuous improvement in Renfrewshire’s education establishments. The school team at Brediland Primary School approached the inspection in a positive manner and embraced it as a professional learning opportunity in partnership with colleagues at Education Scotland. 3.2 The report includes two areas for further improvement, and progress in addressing this will be monitored by Children’s Services staff through the Page 6 of 503
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3 Quality Improvement Framework. 3.3 The inspection report will inform planned improvement activity and will enable the school to build on the recognised strengths and focus further development on areas for improvement to enable the school to continue to deliver a quality educational provision. ___________________________________________________________________ Implications of the Report 1. Financial - None 2. HR & Organisational Development – None 3. Community/Council Planning – engaging with, and learning from external inspection, ensures that our Renfrewshire is thriving. High standards of education provision ensure that children and young people are given the best start in life so that they promote and contribute to a more prosperous, fairer society. It also ensures our Renfrewshire is well – by providing an environment which encourages care, welfare and development, establishments play a crucial role in developing children and young people so that they become responsible citizens. The inspection process also supports delivery of the Council Plan crosscutting theme of improving outcomes for children and families as well as other Council Plan key strategic outcomes, for example: Economy Equipping all children and young people to achieve success in life Fair Creating inclusive and supportive learning environments for children and young people. Embedding children’s rights in our decision-making processes 4. Legal - The full model inspection includes a focus on QI 3.1 Ensuring wellbeing, equity and inclusion. In evaluating this QI, one of the themes that HM Inspectors evaluate is the school’s Fulfilment of Statutory Duties related to attendance, exclusions, ASL Act and Associated Code of Practice, Bullying, Equality Act, Health and Nutrition, and Gaelic education. 5. Property/Assets – No risks to property/assets. 6. Information Technology – No information and technology risks. 7. Equality & Human Rights – The Recommendations contained within this report have been assessed in relation to their impact on equalities and human rights. No negative impacts on equality groups or potential for infringement of individuals’ human rights have been identified arising from the recommendations contained in the report. If required following implementation, the actual impact of the recommendations and the mitigating actions will be reviewed and monitored, Page 7 of 503
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4 and the results of the assessment will be published on the Council’s website. 8. Health & Safety – No negative impacts on health and safety. 9. Procurement – No procurement risks 10. Risk – No risks identified. 11. Privacy Impact – No impact on privacy. 12. Cosla Policy Position – N/A 13. Climate Risk – None. List of Background Papers - The inspection report and additional evidence is published on the Education Scotland website. __________________________________________________________ EH Author: Emma Henry, Interim Head of Education, emma.henry@renfrewshire.gov.uk Page 8 of 503
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1 | Brediland Primary School, Renfrewshire Council, 8624526 © Crown Copyright 12 March 2024 Dear Parent/Carer In January 2024, a team of inspectors from Education Scotland visited Brediland Primary School. During our visit, we talked to parents/carers and children and worked closely with the headteacher and staff. The inspection team found the following strengths in the school’s work. • Staff across the school promote positive, trusting relationships and create calm and purposeful learning environments. They work well together to ensure children and families feel a strong sense of belonging. • Children are proud of their school. They demonstrate an eagerness and motivation to learn. • Staff across the school know children and their families very well. Working effectively with parents and partners, they provide a range of effective supports to reduce barriers to children’s learning. • Senior leaders have led effective improvements in the teaching of literacy and numeracy. As a result, most children are making good progress in their learning. The following areas for improvement were identified and discussed with the headteacher and a representative from Renfrewshire Council. • Senior leaders should continue to review their processes for checking how well children progress and attain over time. • Staff should continue to improve approaches to planning assessment and moderation of learning and teaching to ensure all children enjoy consistently high-quality experiences across the curriculum. Page 9 of 503
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2 | Brediland Primary School, Renfrewshire Council, 8624526 © Crown Copyright We gathered evidence to enable us to evaluate the school’s work using quality indicators from How good is our school? (4th edition). Quality indicators help schools, local authorities and inspectors to judge what is working well and what needs to be improved. Following the inspection of each school, the Scottish Government gathers details of our evaluations to keep track of how well Scottish schools are doing. Here are Education Scotland’s evaluations for Brediland Primary School Quality indicators Evaluation Learning, teaching and assessment good Raising attainment and achievement good Descriptions of the evaluations are available from: How good is our school? (4th edition), Appendix 3: The six-point scale A more detailed document called Summarised Inspection Findings (SIF) will be available on the Education Scotland website at: Details | Find an inspection report | Find an inspection report | Inspection and Review | Education Scotland What happens next? We are confident that the school has the capacity to continue to improve and so we will make no more visits in connection with this inspection. Renfrewshire Council will inform parents/carers about the school’s progress as part of its arrangements for reporting on the quality of its schools. Anne Graham HM Inspector Page 10 of 503
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1 ___________________________________________________________________ To: Education and Children’s Services Policy Board On: 23 May 2024 ___________________________________________________________________ Report by: Director of Children’s Services ___________________________________________________________________ Heading: Education Scotland Inspection of Williamsburgh Primary School and Early Learning and Childcare Class ___________________________________________________________________ 1. Summary 1.1 Education Scotland Inspection of Williamsburgh Primary School and Early Learning and Childcare Class was inspected by Education Scotland in February 2024 as part of a national sample of education. Education Scotland uses different models of inspection and at Brediland Primary School the full model approach was deployed. Inspectors assessed the school and Early Learning and Childcare Class with a focus on four quality indicators which are referenced in How Good is our School? 4 Quality Indicator 1.3 Leadership of Change Quality Indicator 2.3 Learning, teaching and assessment. Quality Indicator 3.1 Ensuring wellbeing, equity and inclusion. Quality Indicator 3.2 Raising attainment and achievement. 1.2 This was a very positive inspection which evaluated quality indicators in the school as Quality Indicator 1.3 Very Good Quality Indicator 2.3 Very Good Quality Indicator 3.1 Good Quality Indicator 3.2 Good 1.3 This was a very positive inspection which evaluated quality indicators in the Early Learning and Childcare Class as Quality Indicator 1.3 Very Good Item 2 Page 11 of 503
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2 Quality Indicator 2.3 Very Good Quality Indicator 3.1 Very Good Quality Indicator 3.2 Very Good 1.4 As part of the inspection model the following area was also reviewed: Quality Indicator 2.1 Safeguarding 1.5 Education Scotland do not attach an evaluative grade to this. Instead in the Summary of Inspection Findings there are evaluative statements provided which are positive and contribute to the overall school ratings. The inspection report in the form of a letter to parents, published by Education Scotland on23 April 2024, is attached as an appendix to this report and is also available from the Director of Children’s Services or from the Education Scotland website. 1.6 The letter to parents identified four key strengths of the school and early learning and childcare class. The highly effective headteacher, who is providing very strong leadership and direction to the work of the school and nursery. She is supported well by the senior leadership team and is ambitious for all children in the school and nursery. The strong focus on promoting inclusion and diversity. This is building caring, positive and trusting relationships that are supporting children to feel included and valued in the school and nursery. Children who are happy, enthusiastic and confident. They enjoy learning in school and nursery. They show respect, care and kindness as they learn and play together. Children are very proud of their school and nursery. High quality approaches to learning teaching across the school and nursery. All staff work very well together as a team. They engage well with professional learning and reflect on their practice. Well-considered, engaging approaches to learning and teaching are impacting positively on children’s progress and achievement. 1.7 The following areas for improvement were identified and discussed with the headteacher and a representative from Renfrewshire Council. 1.8 Senior leaders and practitioners in the nursery should continue to develop the curriculum outdoors to ensure children experience greater breadth in their learning. 1.9 Staff in the school should continue to develop systems to track children’s wellbeing. This should provide staff with helpful information on how best to plan for and further meet the wellbeing needs of all children. 1.10 Senior leaders and staff in the school should continue to raise attainment in literacy and numeracy. ___________________________________________________________________ 2. Recommendations Page 12 of 503
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3 2.1 Members of the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board are asked to note and celebrate the key strengths and recognise the areas for further improvement in the Education Scotland report on Williamsburgh Primary School and Early Learning and Childcare Class. ___________________________________________________________________ 3. Background 3.1 Following a pause to inspections due to the pandemic, Education Scotland’s routine programme of inspection of schools and early years settings resumed in September 2022. Children’s Services welcomes the process of audit undertaken by Education Scotland as supportive to continuous improvement in Renfrewshire’s education establishments. The school team at Williamsburgh Primary School and Early Learning and Childcare Class approached the inspection in a positive manner and embraced it as a professional learning opportunity in partnership with colleagues at Education Scotland. 3.2 The report includes three areas for further improvement, and progress in addressing this will be monitored by Children’s Services staff through the Quality Improvement Framework. 3.3 The inspection report will inform planned improvement activity and will enable the school to build on the recognised strengths and focus further development on areas for improvement to enable the school to continue to deliver a quality educational provision. ___________________________________________________________________ Implications of the Report 1. Financial – No financial implication 2. HR & Organisational Development – None 3. Community/Council Planning – engaging with, and learning from external inspection, ensures that our Renfrewshire is thriving. High standards of education provision ensure that children and young people are given the best start in life so that they promote and contribute to a more prosperous, fairer society. It also ensures our Renfrewshire is well – by providing an environment which encourages care, welfare and development, establishments play a crucial role in developing children and young people so that they become responsible citizens. The inspection process also supports delivery of the Council Plan crosscutting theme of improving outcomes for children and families as well as other Council Plan key strategic outcomes, for example: Economy Equipping all children and young people to achieve success in life Fair Creating inclusive and supportive learning environments for children and Page 13 of 503
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4 young people. Embedding children’s rights in our decision-making processes 4. Legal - The full model inspection includes a focus on QI 3.1 Ensuring wellbeing, equity and inclusion. In evaluating this QI, one of the themes that HM Inspectors evaluate is the school’s Fulfilment of Statutory Duties related to attendance, exclusions, ASL Act and Associated Code of Practice, Bullying, Equality Act, Health and Nutrition, and Gaelic education. 5. Property/Assets – No risks to property/assets. 6. Information Technology – No information and technology risks. 7. Equality & Human Rights – The Recommendations contained within this report have been assessed in relation to their impact on equalities and human rights. No negative impacts on equality groups or potential for infringement of individuals’ human rights have been identified arising from the recommendations contained in the report. If required following implementation, the actual impact of the recommendations and the mitigating actions will be reviewed and monitored, and the results of the assessment will be published on the Council’s website. 8. Health & Safety – No negative impacts on health and safety. 9. Procurement – No procurement risks 10. Risk – No risks identified. 11. Privacy Impact – No impact on privacy. 12. Cosla Policy Position – N/A 13. Climate Risk – None. List of Background Papers - The inspection report and additional evidence is published on the Education Scotland website. __________________________________________________________ EH Author: Emma Henry, Interim Head of Education, emma.henry@renfrewshire.gov.uk Page 14 of 503
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1 | Williamsburgh Primary School and Early Learning and Childcare Class, Renfrewshire Council, 8626820© Crown Copyright 23 April 2024 Dear Parent/Carer In February 2024, a team of inspectors from Education Scotland and the Care Inspectorate visited Williamsburgh Primary School and Early Learning and Childcare Class. During our visit, we talked to parents/carers and children and worked closely with the headteacher and staff. The inspection team found the following strengths in the school and nursery’s work. • The highly effective headteacher, who is providing very strong leadership and direction to the work of the school and nursery. She is supported well by the senior leadership team and is ambitious for all children in the school and nursery. • The strong focus on promoting inclusion and diversity. This is building caring, positive and trusting relationships that are supporting children to feel included and valued in the school and nursery. • Children who are happy, enthusiastic and confident. They enjoy learning in school and nursery. They show respect, care and kindness as they learn and play together. Children are very proud of their school and nursery. • High quality approaches to learning teaching across the school and nursery. All staff work very well together as a team. They engage well with professional learning and reflect on their practice. Well-considered, engaging approaches to learning and teaching are impacting positively on children’s progress and achievement. The following areas for improvement were identified and discussed with the headteacher and a representative from Renfrewshire Council. • Senior leaders and practitioners in the nursery should continue to develop the curriculum outdoors to ensure children experience greater breadth in their learning. • Staff in the school should continue to develop systems to track children’s wellbeing. This should provide staff with helpful information on how best to plan for and further meet the wellbeing needs of all children. • Senior leaders and staff in the school should continue to raise attainment in literacy and numeracy. Page 15 of 503
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2 | Williamsburgh Primary School and Early Learning and Childcare Class, Renfrewshire Council, 8626820© Crown Copyright We gathered evidence to enable us to evaluate the school’s work using four quality indicators from How good is our school? (4th edition) and How good is our early learning and childcare?. Quality indicators help schools, local authorities and inspectors to judge what is working well and what needs to be improved. Following the inspection of each school, the Scottish Government gathers details of our evaluations to keep track of how well Scottish schools are doing. Here are Education Scotland’s evaluations for Williamsburgh Primary School and Early Learning and Childcare Class Quality indicators for the primary stages Evaluation Leadership of change very good Learning, teaching and assessment very good Ensuring wellbeing, equality and inclusion good Raising attainment and achievement good Descriptions of the evaluations are available from: How good is our school? (4th edition), Appendix 3: The six-point scale Quality indicators for the nursery class Evaluation Leadership of change very good Learning, teaching and assessment very good Ensuring wellbeing, equality and inclusion very good Securing children’s progress very good Descriptions of the evaluations are available from: How good is our early learning and childcare? Appendix 1: The six-point scale Page 16 of 503
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3 | Williamsburgh Primary School and Early Learning and Childcare Class, Renfrewshire Council, 8626820© Crown Copyright We gathered evidence to enable us to evaluate the early learning and childcare setting using the quality indicators from A quality framework for daycare of children, childminding and school-aged childcare. The framework supports settings, providers and inspectors to assess what is working well and what needs to be improved. Following the inspection of each setting, the Scottish Government gathers details of our evaluations to keep track of how well early learning and childcare settings are doing. The Care Inspectorate evaluations are also used by local authorities when considering how settings are meeting the national standard for funded early learning and childcare. The Care Inspectorate’s evaluations for the early learning and childcare setting are: Detailed evaluations Evaluation Key question 1: How good is our care, play and learning? very good 1.1 Nurturing care and support very good 1.3 Play and learning very good Key question 2: How good is our setting? very good 2.2 Children experience high quality facilities very good Key question 3: How good is our leadership? good 3.1 Quality assurance and improvement are led well good Key question 4: How good is our staff team? very good 4.3 Staff deployment very good During the previous Care Inspectorate inspection, the setting had no requirements and no area for improvement. As a result of this inspection, there are no requirements and no area for improvement. A more detailed document called Summarised Inspection Findings (SIF) will be available on the Education Scotland website at: Details | Find an inspection report | Find an inspection report | Inspection and review | Education Scotland. Page 17 of 503
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4 | Williamsburgh Primary School and Early Learning and Childcare Class, Renfrewshire Council, 8626820© Crown Copyright What happens next? We are confident that the school has the capacity to continue to improve and so we will make no more visits in connection with this inspection. Renfrewshire Council will inform parents/carers about the school’s progress as part of its arrangements for reporting on the quality of its schools. Victoria Morgan Lynn Carruthers HM Inspector Care Inspector Page 18 of 503
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To: Education and Children’s Services Policy Board On: 23 May 2024 Report by: Director of Children’s Services Heading: Early Learning and Childcare – Payment of Sustainable Rates to Funded Providers 1. Summary 1.1 Renfrewshire Council has a statutory duty to provide early learning and childcare (ELC) places to all eligible children. The Council continues to observe this duty through the provision of places in local authority, private and voluntary sector nurseries and with childminders. Renfrewshire Council’s Flexible Framework for Early Learning and Childcare Places, reference RC-CPU-20-113 (“Council’s Framework") enables the Council to purchase placements in private and voluntary sector nurseries and with childminders (these private and voluntary services and childminders are identified as Approved Funded Providers or AFP). 1.2 The purpose of this report is to provide an update on a further review of the sustainable rate paid to AFP for the provision of ELC and to seek approval for the payment of the new rate from 1 April 2024. 2. Recommendations 2.1 The Education and Children’s Services Policy Board is asked to: (i) Note the position of COSLA and the Scottish Government with regards to the sustainable rate paid to AFP; (ii) approve an increase in the sustainable hourly rate paid to Renfrewshire Council’s AFP for the provision of funded early learning and childcare from £5.97 to £6.45 effective from 1 April 2024 for any child aged 3 to 5 years accepted for funding under the Council’s Framework; and (iii) approve the continuation of the existing hourly rate of £8.50 paid to AFP for Item 3 Page 19 of 503
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early learning and childcare for any eligible child aged 2 to 3 years accepted for funding under the Council’s Framework. 3. Background 3.1 Section 1 of the Education (Scotland) Act 1980, as amended by the Standards in Schools etc. Act 2000 and The Children and Young People (Scotland) Act 2014 (“2014 Act”), directs authorities on their duty to provide pre-school education. Renfrewshire Council has continued to observe this duty through the provision of places in local authority, private and voluntary sector nurseries and with childminders. 3.2 All 3- and 4-year-old children and eligible 2-year-old children have a statutory entitlement of up to 1,140 hours of funded ELC each academic session. 3.3 The Scottish Government’s Funding Follows the Child Policy tasks Councils with the responsibility of ensuring flexibility and choice, ensuring that there is a range of options for families in their area. The National Standard sets out the required standards for Funded Providers; with Councils required to be guarantors of quality in ensuring the provision of a quality early learning and childcare. 3.4 The National Standard also sets out a requirement for Funded Providers to have a financially sustainable setting and to pay those staff delivering funded ELC the real Living Wage, with the aim of supporting recruitment and retention of staff, professional learning and investment in their services. 3.5 The Scottish Government published updated guidance on the Funding Follows the Child and National Standard for Early Learning and Childcare Providers: Operating Guidance in December 2023. 3.6 Renfrewshire Council’s Framework for ELC and Childcare provides a robust scrutiny and assessment process to ensure quality ELC provision and AFP commitment to meeting the National Standards in relation to quality of provision, payment of the real Living Wage, quality staffing and staff retention. 3.7 In line with the Scottish’s Government’s Funding Follows the Child policy, families have flexibility in how they wish to access their child’s entitlement to ELC. In each geographical area parents can choose from a range of Providers, including Council and AFP; and a range of options such as term time and 52 weeks per year, full day, and part-time places. 3.8 In Renfrewshire, approximately 1600 eligible children currently access their funded ELC placement in an AFP setting. The Council is dependent on AFP to fulfil its statutory duty to deliver high quality ELC to all eligible children. Private, voluntary sector nurseries and childminders settings in this sector need to remain financially viable and meet the required standards set to ensure the provision of high-quality ELC services. 3.9 The rate paid for the provision of the statutory entitlement to ELC is known as the sustainable rate. Each local authority is responsible for setting their own rate and national guidance is produced by the Scottish Government to support local authorities with this exercise. Page 20 of 503
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3.10 In November 2023 the Education and Children’s Service’s Policy Board approved an increase in the sustainable rate to £5.97 per hour for any eligible child aged 3 to 5 years and agreed the continuation of the hourly rate of £8.50 paid for eligible 2-year- olds. The increase in the rate for eligible 3- to 5-year-olds represented a 5% uplift on staffing costs and 3% on non-staffing cost (including inflation, seasonality and re- investment). The payment of the revised rate was backdated to the 16 August 2023, the start of the academic session 2023/24. The Policy Board also agreed to a review of the 2-year rate for future years. 3.11 The revised rate was set in line with the Scottish Government guidance on rate setting (published May 2022). In line with national guidance, the Council worked collaboratively with AFP on the rate setting process. 3.12 In addition to the rates noted in paragraph 3.10, AFP receive £3 per meal for an eligible child in line with the 1140 hours of ELC entitlement, this is in addition to the hourly rate and the separate £0.58 per session per child as part of the Scottish Milk and Health Snack Scheme. 3.13 In addition to the rate paid to AFP, the Council continues to provide additional services as part of the Council’s Framework. The additional benefits include high quality continued professional learning; a designated link Partnership Support Officer; professional advice and support on quality improvement; access to an Early Years Graduate (in line with SIMD status) and to an Early Years Teacher; financial support towards external workforce training costs to assist in the compliance with SSSC requirements; and other support services such as Educational Psychology. This in-kind support enables the Council to discharge its duty as guarantor of quality. 4. Payment of a Sustainable Rate 4.1 Throughout 2023, a joint review of the sustainable rate setting process was undertaken by COSLA and the Scottish Government, published in December 2023. This review was informed through evidence gathered from a range of different stakeholders, including local government, professional associations and the private, voluntary and independent sectors. Through the review, concerns around the ongoing funding, affordability of provision and availability of staff within the private, voluntary and independent sectors continued to emerge. The findings of the review align with the issues raised by AFP within Renfrewshire. 4.2 The Scottish Government’s Programme for Government, published in September 2023, set out a commitment to deliver funding to enable childcare workers delivering the statutory entitlement in AFP to be paid at least £12 per hour from April 2024. This position was confirmed in the Scottish Government’s budget set out in late 2023, confirming that local authorities were to be provided with £16 million of additional funding in 2024/25 to support the delivery of this commitment. 4.3 Given the commitment that staff in AFP settings will receive £12 per hour from 1 April 2024, it has been necessary to introduce a mid-year increase to the sustainable rate. Page 21 of 503
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This represents a departure from the usual process whereby any increase in the rate paid to AFP has been agreed from the start of the school session in August. 4.4 Through national agreement between the Scottish Government and COSLA, it has been determined that all local authorities should apply a minimum uplift of 7.6% on their existing 2023/24 rate, effective from 1 April 2024. This level of uplift (7.6%) has been calculated to reflect the estimated increase in the average staff cost element of the sustainable rate required to enable payment of the increased real Living Wage. Per the agreement, overall staff costs will be uplifted by 10.1% to reflect the increase from the real Living Wage rate that applied during 2023/24 (£10.90 per hour) to the current real Living Wage rate of £12 per hour. The calculation assumes that, on average, staff costs account for 75% of overall AFP costs (and therefore around 75% of the sustainable rate) and so the 10.1% uplift translates to a 7.6% “blended” uplift when the remaining 25% non-staffing costs are included in the base hourly rate prior to the uplift (10.1% × 75% ≈ 7.6%). 4.5 The national agreement requires that the remainder of the sustainable rate, that is, the non-staffing element (assumed to account for, on average, 25% of the sustainable rate), is set in line with the requirements of the existing sustainable rates guidance. 4.6 A proposed uplift from 1 April 2024 for Renfrewshire Council’s AFP, from £5.97 to £6.45 per hour, reflects the requirements detailed at 4.4 and 4.5 above; specifically a 10.1% uplift to the staff cost element of the 2023-24 rate and a 2% uplift to the non-staffing element, yielding a blended uplift of the overall rate of 8.04%. 4.7 An overview of sustainable rates paid to AFP across Scotland for session 2023-24 was published by the Scottish Government in January 2024. A review of the sustainable rate paid for funded ELC for eligible 2-year-olds noted that the rates varied from £5.50 to £8.50, with Renfrewshire paying the highest rate at £8.50. The average rate paid for eligible 2-year-olds across local authorities for session 2023-24 was reported to be £6.68 per hour. 4.8 Renfrewshire Council’s existing rate for eligible 2-year-olds continues to be the highest across Scotland. No change is proposed to this rate, currently £8.50 per hour for an eligible 2-year-old child accepted for funding under the Council’s Framework. 4.9 As the increase is linked to the commitment to pay staff £12 per hour, AFP will continue to receive £3 per meal for any eligible child in accordance with the 1140 hours of ELC entitlement and in addition to the hourly rate. They will also continue to be paid £0.58 for each child, per session as part of the Scottish Milk and Health Snack Scheme. 4.10 Council officers have continued to work collaboratively with a representative group of AFP on the sustainable rate setting process. The AFP representative group were consulted on the proposal for the sustainable rate for session 2023/24 and agreed to proposals being presented to this May 2024 policy board. 4.11 The other additional in-kind services the Council provides to AFP, as outlined in paragraph 3.13, will continue to be provided, this is also in addition to the hourly rate paid to AFP. Page 22 of 503
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Implications of this report 1. Financial The overall cost of the proposed increase to the hourly rate payable to AFP for ELC is expected to be in the region of £804,000 per year. An additional £16 million has been provided for 2024/25 nationally by the Scottish Government to fund the increase in the sustainable rate required to meet the commitment to pay at least £12 per hour from 1 April 2024. Renfrewshire Council’s estimated share of this funding is £574,500. The implementation of this uplift will therefore represent, ceteris paribus, an estimated additional net cost pressure to Renfrewshire Council Children’s Services of £229,500 per year. As the number of families choosing to access their child’s entitlement in AFP settings varies on an annual basis, the service will continue to closely monitor ongoing affordability. The findings of the joint review of the sustainable rate setting process notes the continued challenges facing the sector. It also notes that any sustainable rate must also be financially sustainable from the perspective of the local authority. Council officers will continue to engage with AFP across Renfrewshire to inform future reviews of the sustainable rate. 2. HR and Organisational Development None 3. Community/Council Planning Our Renfrewshire is thriving Ensuring the best start in life for children and young people. Our Renfrewshire is well Early intervention will lead to healthier outcomes for children and young people. Our Renfrewshire is safe Local services will benefit children, young people and members of the community. Building strong, safe and resilient communities The quality of community life is enhanced by supporting parents, children and young people. Tackling inequality, ensuring opportunities for all Effective governance arrangements ensure that the organisations receiving funding comply with legislative requirements. Page 23 of 503
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Creating a sustainable Renfrewshire for all to enjoy Support to families and flexible childcare placements will support parents into and sustain employment, training or enter education. 4. Legal Services from AFP will continue to be procured in accordance with the Council’s Framework and the Council’s Standing Orders Relating to Contracts. 5. Property/Assets None 6. Information Technology None 7. Equality and Human Rights No negative impacts on equality groups or potential for infringement of individuals’ human rights have been identified arising from the recommendations contained in the report because the service is being extended. If required, the actual impact of the recommendations and the mitigating actions will be reviewed and monitored, and the results of the assessment will be published on the Council’s website. 8. Health and Safety None 9. Procurement Services from AFP will continue to be procured in accordance with the Council’s Framework and the Council’s Standing Orders Relating to Contracts. The process for the proposed variation to the rate will be dealt with in accordance with the Flexible Framework for Early Learning and Childcare Places and formal letter issued by the Corporate Procurement Unit to each of the appointed Providers for their agreement. 10. Risk If the Council does not increase the hourly rate to a level that enables AFP to be sustainable and to fulfil the commitment to pay staff £12 per hour, there is the risk that: i. There will be a reduction in the level of choice and local provision for parents and possibly impact on the Council’s ability to fulfil its statutory duty and compliance with the Funding Follows the Child Policy and National Standard of ensuring sufficient places, which could result in additional cost for the Council as it will need to expand existing Council ELC services and/or open new Council operated ELC services. ii. There may be reputational damage to the Council if ELC services close due to not being sustainable, leading to disruption to children and families lives, loss of local provision, choice and flexibility for families, loss of employment and community- based services. iii. Providers in the private, voluntary and independent sector may not be able to meet the National Standard, recruit and retain staff they are not able to pay the real Living Wage. Page 24 of 503
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iv. Potential reduction in the quality of service provided if qualified and experienced staff cannot be recruited. 11. Privacy Impact None 12. COSLA Policy Position The joint review of the sustainable rate setting process was undertaken by COSLA and the Scottish Government. COSLA and the Scottish Government jointly agreed on the sustainable rate setting process as outlined in this report. 13. Climate Risk None List of Background Papers - Funding Follows the Child and the National Standard for ELC Providers: Operating Guidance, Scottish Government, December 2023. Link - - Funding Follows The Child and The National Standard for Early Learning and Childcare Providers: Operating Guidance - gov.scot (www.gov.scot). - Funding Follows the Child and the National Standard for Early Learning and Childcare Providers - Guidance for setting sustainable rates for the delivery of funded early learning and childcare (ELC) in 2024-25, Scottish government and COSLA, March 2024. Link - https://www.gov.scot/publications/guidance-setting-sustainable-rates-delivery-funded- early-learning-childcare-elc-2024-25/ - Early Learning and Childcare – Payment of Sustainable Rates to Funded Providers, Education and Children Policy Board, November 2023. Link - Early Learning and Childcare – Payment of Sustainable Rates to Funded Providers The foregoing background papers will be retained within children’s services for inspection by the public for the prescribed period of four years from the date of the meeting. The contact officer within the service is Kathleen McDonagh, Education Manager, 07799034553 - kathleen.mcdonagh@renfrewshire.gov.uk KMcD 18 April 2024 Author: Kathleen McDonagh, Education Manager, Telephone Number 07799034553 kathleen.mcdonagh@renfrewshire.gov.uk Page 25 of 503
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Page 1 of 6 To: Education and Children’s Services Policy Board On: 23 May 2024 ___________________________________________________________________ Report by: Director of Children’s Services ___________________________________________________________________ Heading: Duty of Candour – Annual Report ___________________________________________________________________ 1. Summary 1.1 All local authorities are required by the Health (Tobacco, Nicotine etc. and Care) (Scotland) Act 2016 and related Regulations local authorities to have in place a Duty of Candour Policy. The Duty of Candour Policy ensures that local authorities are open, honest, and supportive where there is an unexpected or unintended incident resulting in harm or death to an individual using services which are registered with the Care Inspectorate or delivered by social work services. 1.2 Within Renfrewshire Children’s Services, the Duty of Candour extends to those services which are registered with and regulated by the Care Inspectorate and locality social work services. As a consequence, the local authority internal provision of early learning and child-care services, children’s residential houses, the registered services in fostering and adoption services, the registered throughcare service and the locality social work services are required to report under the Duty of Candour. 1.3 Each local authority is required to publish an annual report on the Duty of Candour. The annual report sets out details on the number of incidents or events where the duty of candour is triggered, how the policy was followed in these incidents and any learning from the incidents. Local authorities are required to publish an annual duty of candour report even if there have been no adverse events which triggered the reporting. Renfrewshire had no reportable duty of candour incidents during the period covered by this report. The annual report for 2023-24 is attached at appendix 1 for information. ___________________________________________________________________ 2. Recommendations 2.1 It is recommended that the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board: Item 4 Page 26 of 503
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Page 2 of 6 [a] note that the annual duty of candour report for the period April 2023 to March 2024. ___________________________________________________________________ 3. Background 3.1 Care services registered with the Care Inspectorate and social work services in localities are covered by legislation in respect of the duty of candour. This duty is defined in the Health (Tobacco, Nicotine etc. and Care) (Scotland) Act 2016 and related Regulations. In children’s services the following areas are required to report incidents under duty of candour: • early learning and childcare services (including these services based in schools); • residential children’s houses; • fostering and adoption service; • throughcare service; and • social work locality services in children and justice. 3.2 The Duty of Candour provisions set out a range of actions that need to happen when unexpected or unintended harm has occurred to someone using the services detailed in paragraph 3.1. The duty of candour policy sets out how the local authority should respond to such incidents in an open and transparent manner. It includes the process for making an “apology”, a statement of sorrow or regret in respect of the unintended or unexpected incident. 3.3 The unexpected incidents which are required to be reported under duty of candour include where someone using the service has died in the service, has sustained an injury which results in the permanent loss of bodily, sensory, motor, physiologic or intellectual functioning or these functions have been impaired for a period of more than 28 days. 3.4 Each local authority as an organisation is identified as a “responsible person” in terms of the legislation. Within Renfrewshire the “responsible person” function is discharged jointly by the Interim Head of Education Service (Inclusion and Quality Improvement) and the Head of Child Care and Justice Social Work. 3.5 The local authority is required to publish a report on the duty of candour as it applies to their services on an annual basis. The annual report should include information on the number of incidents raised under duty of candour and the learning from these as well as information on apologies issued. Local authorities are required to publish a “null” annual report if there have been no reported incidents under the duty of candour. 3.6 There have been no reportable incidents in Renfrewshire Children’s Services in the period April 2023 to March 2024. As such the annual report (attached at appendix 1 is a “null” report. The service will be providing refresher training on the Duty of Candour to managers in relevant services over the next twelve months. ________________________________________________________________ Page 27 of 503
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Page 3 of 6 Implications of this report 1. Financial None. 2. HR and Organisational Development None. 3. Community/Council Planning None. 4. Legal The publication of the duty of candour annual report is required under the Health (Tobacco, Nicotine etc. and Care) (Scotland) Act 2016. 5. Property/Assets None. 6. Information Technology None. 7. Equality and Human Rights The Recommendations contained within this report have been assessed in relation to their impact on equalities and human rights. No negative impacts on equality groups or potential for infringement of individuals’ human rights have been identified arising from the recommendations contained in the report. 8. Health and Safety Children’s Services operates to ensure that our establishments and services are compliant with health and safety procedures and legislation. The publication of the annual duty of candour report contributes to compliance.. 9. Procurement None. 10. Risk Risks related to the delivery and management of services are regularly monitored and included in Renfrewshire Council’s Corporate and Strategic Risk Registers. Page 28 of 503
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Page 4 of 6 11. Privacy Impact None. 12. Cosla Policy Position None. 13. Climate Risk None. List of Background Papers ___________________________________________________________________ Children’s Services JT/KO 16042024 Author: John Trainer, Head of Child Care and Justice Social Work 0300 300 0277 john.trainer@renfrewshire.gov.uk Page 29 of 503
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Page 5 of 6 Appendix 1 Renfrewshire Council - Children’s Services Duty of Candour Report 1 April 2023 – 31 March 2024 Within Scotland all health and social care services have a duty of candour as a legislative duty. The legislative duty is embedded in the Health (Tobacco, Nicotine etc. and Care) (Scotland) Act 2016. The legislation places a legal requirement on care services to ensure when things go wrong and mistakes happen, the people affected understand what has happened, receive an apology, and that organisations learn how to improve for the future. The legislation requires all care providers to discharge an important part of the duty by publishing on an annual basis a report about duty of candour incidents in their services. This short report describes how our care service has operated the duty of candour during the time between 1 April 2023 and 31 March 2024. We hope you find this report useful. Renfrewshire Council Children’s Services directly provides a number of services which are registered with the Care Inspectorate children which are covered by the Duty of Candour. These services are: • early learning and childcare; • residential children’s houses: • fostering and adoption service; • throughcare service; and • social work locality services in children and justice. Renfrewshire Council Children’s Services operates 15 early learning and childcare centres and 22 early learning and childcare classes which are all registered with and regulated by the Care Inspectorate. Renfrewshire Council Children’s Services operates 4 children’s houses which are registered with and regulated by the Care Inspectorate. Renfrewshire’s fostering and adoption service and throughcare service are registered and regulated by the Care Inspectorate. 1. How many incidents happened to which the duty of candour applies? In the period 1 April 2023 to 31 March 2024, there have been no incidents to which the duty of candour applied in any of the early learning and childcare services. In the period 1 April 2023 to 31 March 2024, there have been no incidents to which the duty of candour applied in any of our children’s houses. In the period 1 April 2023 to 31 March 2024, there have been no incidents to which the duty of candour applied in the fostering and adoption service or the through care service. In the period 1 April 2023 to 31 March 2024, there have been no incidents to which the duty of candour applied in any of the social work locality teams. Page 30 of 503
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Page 6 of 6 2. Information about our policies and procedures Children’s Services has a duty of candour policy which was reviewed in December 2023 and no amendments were required to be made to the policy. The policy details that where something has happened that triggers the duty of candour, our staff report this to their manager who has responsibility for ensuring that the duty of candour procedure is followed. When a member of staff raises a concern under the duty of candour, the manager records the incident and reports as necessary to the Care Inspectorate. When an incident has happened, the manager and staff set up a learning review. This allows everyone involved to review what happened and identify changes for the future. Where a duty of candour report is required for an individual event, the local manager reports this to the Interim Head of Education Service (Inclusion and Quality Improvement) for early years services and the Head of Child Care and Justice Social Work for our children’s houses, fostering and adoption services and throughcare services. As the duty of candour policy was reviewed in December 2023, the next review will be undertaken before the end of December 2026. The service will present refresher training to all managers in relevant services before the end of March 2025. Emma Henry Interim Head of Education (Inclusion and Quality Improvement) John Trainer Head of Child Care and Justice Social Work/Chief Social Work Officer Page 31 of 503
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Page 1 of 9 To: Education and Children’s Services Policy Board On: 23 May 2024 ___________________________________________________________________ Report by: Director of Children’s Services ___________________________________________________________________ Heading: Children’s Services Reform Research: Learning and Implications for Scotland and Renfrewshire Service Reform ___________________________________________________________________ 1. Summary 1.1 The integration of services for people who need the support of children’s and adult’s health and social work and social care services has been a significant focus of Scottish legislative policy in recent years. In 2010, the Scottish Government established the Commission on the Future Delivery of Public Services led by Dr Campbell Christie, with a remit to undertake a strategic review of public service delivery in Scotland, and to provide a road map to guide future reform. 1.2 A key recommendation of the Christie Commission report was that “Public service providers must be required to work much more closely in partnership”, to “integrate service provision” The recommendations of the Christie Commission led to the establishment of Integrated Joint Boards in which Health and Social Work / Social Care services are managed and delivered together. Not all Integrated Joint Boards contain Children or Justice Social Work Services and Renfrewshire like many other local authorities has retained these services in the Council’s management and located them with Education Services. 1.3 In September 2020, Scotland’s First Minister announced an Independent Review of Adult Social Care in Scotland. The review’s report, known as the ‘Feeley Report’, was published in February 2021 and recommended the creation of a National Care Service for adult social care, to be delivered locally through reformed Integrated Joint Boards. 1.4 A consultation on the development of a National Care Service was launched by the Scottish Government in August 2021, including a proposal that children’s social work and social care services should be included within the National Care Service. Following the consultation, the Scottish Government introduced the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill to the Scottish Parliament on 20 June 2022, and produced the National Care Service Statement of Benefits report alongside it. This report considered in more detail the extension of the National Care Service to include children’s social care and Item 5 Page 32 of 503
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Page 2 of 9 justice social work services. It concluded that further evidence was required to inform future decisions around their inclusion or exclusion. 1.5 The Children’s Services Reform Research study was commissioned to contribute to this evidence base (appendix 1). This research study was undertaken by CELCIS, the Centre for Excellence for Children’s Care and Protection at the University of Strathclyde between September 2022 and December 2023. This report provides an overview of the research study findings and provides information on changes that are being made locally to reform and improve Children’s Social Work Services following service redesign work undertaken in 2023. ___________________________________________________________________ 2. Recommendations 2.1 Members of the Board are asked to a) note the findings of the Children’s Services Reform Research study undertaken by CELCIS, the Centre for Excellence for Children’s Care and Protection. b) Note the work being undertaken locally in Children’s Social Work to ensure children, young people and their families get the right help at the right time. ___________________________________________________________________ 3. Background 3.1 The Scottish Government has an ambitious aim for the country to be the best place in the world for children and young people to grow up. Supporting this aim is a complex legislative and policy landscape which seeks to address fundamental issues of poverty, inequality, exclusion, and the welfare of all children by providing the right support at the right time, by the right people, irrespective of where families live in the country. 3.2 These aims are underpinned by a rights-based approach reflecting the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC) implementation of the Getting It Right For Every Child (GIRFEC) approach, and a commitment to ensure that Scotland keeps The Promise of the Independent Care Review to all children and young people so that they grow up safe, loved and respected. 3.3 As outlined above, the integration agenda in relation to Health, Social Care and Social Work has been a significant feature in consecutive administration’s priorities for Government. The Public Bodies (Joint Working) (Scotland) Act 2014 came into force on 1 April 2014. It provides the legislative framework for the integration of health and social care in Scotland. It requires local integration of adult health and social care services, with Health Boards and Local Authority partnerships deciding whether to include other services in their integrated arrangements. This legislation embodies the recommendations of the Christie Commission in that it aims to improve outcomes for those who use adult health and social care services by requiring those services to integrate. Page 33 of 503
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Page 3 of 9 3.4 Integration is considered to improve outcomes to meet differing needs, as well as improve service delivery, efficiency and reduce costs. Within Scotland specifically, the expectation that integration would improve the experiences or outcomes of the people that the integrated services support has meant that integration has often been suggested as a critical element required to carry out the Scottish Government’s vision to improve the wellbeing of the population, including the reduction of poverty and inequality. 3.5 The establishment of a National Care Service was a key recommendation of the Independent Review of Adult Social Care in Scotland undertaken in 2020/21. The consultation on the National Care Service launched by the Scottish Government in August 2021 proposed that Justice and Children’s Social Work should be included in a National Care Service. 3.6 In Renfrewshire Social Work and Social Care services for adults other than adults involved in the Justice system are delivered by the Integrated Joint Board. Children and Justice Social Work services are in the Council’s Children’s Services. This is replicated in several other local authority areas. 3.7 The Scottish Government will decide which, if any, children’s health, and social care services are to be included in the National Care Service, and the Children’s Services Reform Research Study was designed to contribute to the evidence base which will be drawn from to make and implement the decision the government takes. 3.8 The Children’s Services Reform Research study undertaken by The Centre for Excellence for Children’s Care and Protection at the University of Strathclyde, CELCIS was designed as a multi-strand, mixed methods research study. It drew together existing national and international evidence on the integration of health and social care services at team, service, and systems levels. It considered the evidence base in Scotland on the association between integration and outcomes and also considered the children’s services workforce experiences of the current service landscape. 3.9 The study aimed to contribute to the future design and delivery of children’s services in Scotland through answering the research question “What is needed to ensure that children, young people and families receive the help they need, when they need it?” This question has provided an opportunity to step back from the binary question of whether children’s services should be ‘in’ or ‘out’ of the proposed National Care Service, and instead focus more broadly on what is needed to improve the wellbeing of children, young people and families who require support. 3.10 A key finding from the research study was the critical importance of children, young people and families having supportive, empowering, and non- judgemental relationships with the practitioners who support them and found that children, young people and families value high-quality relationships with practitioners. It was clear from the consultation undertaken during the research that Scotland’s children’s services workforce wants to work in this manner, with practitioners recognising the importance of consistent, sustained relationships that help to build understanding and trust with children, young people and families. However, due to high workloads; staff absence, turnover and vacancies; short-term funding of services; and services stretched to and beyond capacity, practitioners also reported that they struggle to have the time and stability in their work needed to build such relationships. This means Page 34 of 503
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Page 4 of 9 that children, young people, and families all too often have to endure the need to continually build new relationships with different practitioners, re-tell their stories with the potential trauma this can entail, and experience fractured planning and decision-making. 3.11 The research also highlighted Children, young people and families often need support from a range of services (for example, social work, health, early learning and childcare, education, family support, financial inclusion, housing, and employability), and their needs are best met if practitioners from these different services work together in a holistic, collaborative manner. However, it was recognised that meaningful multi agency working takes time, shared culture and vision to be realised. Many of the barriers to effective multi agency working also shared. These included: short-term funding and job instability; siloed working; and professional hierarchies and power imbalances. 3.12 A key finding from the study was that many children, young people and families are struggling in relation to their health, finances and housing with these issues having a significant impact on children and young people’s outcomes. Practitioners who participated in the study reported the impact of the cost-of-living crisis, cuts to services, and the long-term impact of the COVID-19 pandemic accompanied by increased levels of complexity and diversity of needs among children, young people and families was also creating pressure in the system. 3.13 In considering ‘what is needed to ensure that children, young people and families get the help they need, when they need it?’, making sure that the rights of children, young people and families are respected and upheld in all the services they receive is a critical concern. The study found widespread commitment to listening to, involving and empowering children, young people, and families, in line with Article 12 of the UNCRC. 3.14 In practice, this commitment was predominantly supporting the voice of children, young people, and families to be heard in child’s planning meetings. Positive developments included practitioners adapting the means of communicating with children and young people to meet their communications needs, providing advocacy support, having child-friendly meeting rooms, and introducing post-meeting feedback forms to understand children, young people and families’ experience of meetings. 3.15 Notwithstanding these developments, hearing the voices of young children and of disabled children and young people remain an area for further practice development, while there are also challenges in ensuring the respective views of different meeting participants are equally heard, and a need to end the use of inaccessible, professionalised language used in meetings and child’s plans. 3.16 The research study found that Scotland’s children’s services workforce is passionate and highly committed and working hard to build supportive relationships with children, young people, and their families in order to best meet their needs, however it is a workforce which is in crisis. Participants in the research reported services are under-staffed, under-resourced and facing unmanageable pressure. This crisis has built up over several years but has been exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic, with an exhausted workforce now responding to an increasing demand for services. Furthermore, it is not a crisis that is specific to Scotland, as recruitment and retention difficulties were Page 35 of 503
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Page 5 of 9 widely reported in the other countries whose transformational reform programmes were considered during the research. 3.17 The implications for children, young people and families are significant as practitioners have limited time and opportunities to think, discuss, reflect, and plan on how best to support children, young people and families; and to participate in training, supervision and peer support that can enhance their practice. Also, from a multi-agency working perspective, high and unmanageable workloads impact on the time available to build relationships with other services, and to engage in internal or multi-agency change and improvement work. 3.18 The research study highlighted a common belief that the integration of services can better meet the needs of children, young people, and families. However it was acknowledged that integration is a difficult term to define or explain in terms of what integration aims to achieve and how it will be implemented. The desire for more integrated services for children, young people and families was a key driver behind the transformational reform programme explored during the research. 3.19 Each of the examples considered took a different approach to service integration, with national (New Zealand, Northern Ireland, and Republic of Ireland), regional (Finland) and local (the Netherlands) approaches all evident, and none to date yet having the positive impact aspired to. Consequently, there was not a single ‘off the shelf’ approach for Scotland to adopt. Instead, examination of these examples of integration identified features that could be used to inform future reforms in Scotland. 3.20 The research study concluded that integration cannot include all services that children, young people and families need. There was awareness that no structure can encompass all services that children, young people and families need (for example, health, education, social work, early learning and childcare, family support, youth justice, adult services, housing, and financial services). There will consequently always be some boundaries across which different services will need to work together to support children, young people, and families, and it is these boundaries where gaps and weaknesses in service provision can be most acute. 3.21 The study found no clear model of integrated children’s services which could be directly lifted and applied to shape the future structure of children’s services in ways which meet the needs of children and families and improve outcomes. The review of existing national and international evidence highlighted the importance of relationships between children, young people, families, and the practitioners who support them, and of multi-agency working at the local/community level. However, irrespective of whether a national, regional, or local approach to service integration was predominantly taken, similar issues and challenges were reported. There was evidence of consistent challenges around access to services, workforce recruitment and retention, stable funding and in successfully translating the aims and vision of change into improving outcomes for children, young people, and families. Our examination and analysis of experiences to date regarding structural integration in Scotland did not find evidence of a clear relationship between structural integration and outcomes for children, young people, and families, or between structural integration and the experiences and views of the children’s services workforce. The report concluded this must be carefully Page 36 of 503
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Page 6 of 9 considered in the context of developing and delivering any change to the structure, functions, and delivery of children’s services in Scotland, whether children’s services become part of or remain outside a National Care Service. 3.22 The evidence throughout the study emphasised that whilst structures do matter in a variety of ways, what matters most is not the structure itself, but how the structure enables the workforce to provide the help and support that children, young people and families need, when they need this. Any change to the structure and delivery of children’s services must focus on creating the optimal conditions needed to enable success in improving the lives of the children, young people and families who need the support of services. 3.23 Many of the pressures identified during the research study are also impacting on Children’s and Justice Social Work in Renfrewshire. The impact of and recovery from the Covid 19 pandemic accompanied by significant staffing shortages and increased demand for services was highlighted in a report to Board in June 2022. In September 2022 work began on a Service redesign. This was to build on the limited work which had been undertaken as part of the Right for Renfrewshire Early and Effective Intervention workstream which required to be halted at the start of the pandemic. 3.24 The objectives of the Service redesign were to design a service equipped to: • Keep as many children as possible at home in the family environment where it is safe to do so. • Improve the capability and capacity within the service to drive change forward. • Reduce reactive ‘firefighting.’ • Provide the right support to the right people at the right time. 3.25 The service redesign work was undertaken with the assistance of Castlerigg Consultancy and all recommended changes will be achieved within existing budgets. Service users’ journeys were mapped from point of referral to conclusion of intervention with a particular focus on children accommodated in alternative family-based care or residential care tracking their journey through the service and giving consideration to what could have been done differently to prevent them from being accommodated. Significant emphasis was placed on analysing data to better understand pressures in the service. Identified pressures included significant workloads in our duty teams, support provided to kinship carers, high use of external residential care placements and recruitment and retention challenges. 3.26 The main recommendations of the service redesign are as follows. • Introduce a dedicated Renfrewshire wide request for Social Work assistance team. • Enhance the support provided to Kinship Carers • Introduce Independent Decision Makers for Looked After Reviews and Child Protection meetings. • Create Senior Practitioners Page 37 of 503
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Page 7 of 9 3.27 Currently in Children’s Social we operate 3 duty teams which are geographically located in each of Renfrewshire’s towns. Social Workers are on duty on a rota basis a day or two a week as well as having an allocated caseload. We will move to having one duty team which responds to all requests for assistance made to social work in relation to a child. This team will have dedicated staff to undertake this work, they will not carry a caseload but instead their main role will be to respond to new referrals. This will provide standardise consistency of response and allow social workers who are not based in the new request for assistance team to focus on allocated casework. We believe that an enhanced response to service users at the first point of contact will reduce the likelihood of them requiring to go forward to be allocated for medium and longer term intervention. 3.28 Additionally, when Children and Families do need to be allocated for longer term support, we will allocate based on worker capacity rather than geographic location as we currently do. We will also no longer transfer cases between teams when families move within Renfrewshire. Transitions of course will still require to take place but we hope that by minimising these we can promote continuity and consistency for service users and maximise opportunities for relationship based practice. 3.29 Significant improvements have been made in how we support kinship carers and the children they care for in recent years however we want to make more progress in this area. Our Kinship Care service is currently configured to support both carers and children with the same worker. We believe that Kinship Carers should have their own support worker like the support we provide to foster carers. A dedicated Kinship Carer Support team will be established, and the children currently supported by the team will be reallocated to social workers in the wider service. By providing enhanced support to the kinship carers, we hope to prevent unnecessary placement breakdowns and therefore minimise the chances of children requiring to be placed in foster or residential care. 3.30 A further recommendation of the service redesign is to introduce Independent Decision Makers to chair and make decisions in relation to Child Protection and Looked After Review meetings. Renfrewshire currently has different arrangements for the management of Child Protection Planning Meetings and Looked After and Accommodated Review Meetings. Child Protection meetings are currently chaired by the Operations Manager responsible for the case. A peer review model operates in relation to Looked After Reviews for accommodated children. The introduction of Independent Decision Makers will enhance the scrutiny of care planning processes ensuring plans are progressed to timescales therefore preventing drift and improving outcomes for our most vulnerable children. This model is one which is used in other Local Authorities. 3.31 As previously highlighted to the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board in the report in June 2022 and referenced in the Children’s Services Reform Research findings summarised in this report, Social Work and Social Care in Scotland and across the United Kingdom is experiencing significant staff shortages. Vacancy levels continue to be closely monitored and appropriate action taken when necessary to mitigate associated risks. However, the service redesign considered what more we could do to recruit and retain staff and has recommended the introduction of a new role of senior practitioner to the service. This role will have limited supervisory Page 38 of 503
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Page 8 of 9 responsibilities and have a small, allocated caseload. This role exists in other local authorities, and it is hoped that by introducing it in Renfrewshire we will retain staff who might otherwise leave Renfrewshire to seek promotion. Similarly we hope that the role will attract more staff to consider applying to Renfrewshire due to increased opportunities for career progression. 3.32 Regardless of whether Children’s and Justice Social Work services will become part of the National Care Service, it is important that we continue to drive forward an agenda of improvement locally to ensure we provide high quality supports for our most vulnerable children and adults involved with justice. In keeping with the findings of the Children’s Services Reform Research study the work undertaken in relation to the service redesign has focussed on ensuring children and families get the right help at the tight time and that relationship-based practice is at the heart of our interventions. Implications of this report 1. Financial The Service reforms in Renfrewshire are being introduced within existing budgets. 2. HR and Organisational Development The Service Reform will result in a significant change to how delivery of supports are provided for children, their families, and adults in conflict with the law. A significant training and development programme will be in place to assist in delivering the new service model. 3. Community/Council Planning Our Renfrewshire is fair - The new service model will result in equity of access for residents across Renfrewshire, will improve support for kinship carers and improve support to children. Our Renfrewshire is safe - The new service model will enhance the support to children and their families and adults in conflict with the law. Building strong, safe and resilient communities - Building resilience in the workforce will improve support to communities to deliver improved safety. Tackling inequality, ensuring opportunities for all - The new service model will deliver better opportunities and increase options for rehabilitation. 4. Legal None. 5. Property/Assets None. 6. Information Technology None. 7. Equality and Human Rights Page 39 of 503
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Page 9 of 9 (a) The Recommendations contained within this report have been assessed in relation to their impact on equalities and human rights. No negative impacts on equality groups or potential for infringement of individuals’ human rights have been identified arising from the recommendations contained in the report 8. Health and Safety None. 9. Procurement None. 10. Risk None. 11. Privacy Impact None. 12. Cosla Policy Position None. 13. Climate Risk None. List of Background Papers (a) Background Paper 1: (delete row if not used or add further rows if required or state ‘none’) The foregoing background papers will be retained within children’s services for inspection by the public for the prescribed period of four years from the date of the meeting. The contact officer within the service is Michelle McCargo Strategic Manager Justice and Children’s Social Work michelle.mccargo@renfrewshire.gov.uk ___________________________________________________________________ Children’s Services MMcC/KO 16/04/24 Author: Michelle McCargo Strategic Manager Justice and Children’s Social Work michelle.mccargo@renfrewshire.gov.uk Page 40 of 503
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0 CHILDREN’S SERVICES REFORM RESEARCH: LEARNING AND IMPLICATIONS FOR SCOTLAND December 2023 Authors: Dr Heather Ottaway, Dr Alex McTier, Mihaela Manole, Micky Anderson, Dr Robert Porter, Jane Scott, Emma Young, Dr Nadine Fowler, Dr Joanna Soraghan, Dr Leanne McIver, Carol Ann Anderson and Kate MacKinnon Editor: Samantha Fiander CONCLUDING REPORT Page 41 of 503
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1 Table of Contents Table of Contents .............................................................................................. 1 Acknowledgements ......................................................................................... 2 Foreword .......................................................................................................... 3 Background ...................................................................................................... 6 Overview of the Children’s Services Reform Research study ..................................... 8 Synthesis of findings ........................................................................................ 10 Supporting children, young people and families ................................................. 10 Supporting the children’s services workforce ..................................................... 14 The impact of integration ............................................................................... 17 Implications for Scotland .................................................................................. 23 Conclusions .................................................................................................... 31 Areas for future research .................................................................................. 33 References ..................................................................................................... 35 Appendix 1: Membership of the Independent Steering Group ................................. 38 Page 42 of 503
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2 Acknowledgements We are very grateful to the Chair of the Independent Steering Group for the Children’s Services Reform Research study, Professor Brigid Daniel, Professor Emerita at Queen Margaret University, Edinburgh and all the members of the Independent Steering Group, who shared their expertise and provided constructive feedback to the research team throughout. The team would like to extend our grateful thanks to all members of the children’s services workforce who took the time to take part in Strand 4 of our study, and those who disseminated the survey. We would also like to thank the international and national academic experts who supported the development of the case studies, and to the organisations and colleagues who supported our data work. The team would also very much like to thank the production manager working with us on developing and producing the study's reports, Lesley Sneddon, and our research administrators Susan Reid and Maria Flores-McGinty for their support throughout the research study. CELCIS, the Centre for Excellence for Children's Care and Protection, is a leading improvement and innovation centre in Scotland. We improve children’s lives by supporting people and organisations to drive long lasting change in the services they need, and the practices used by people responsible for their care. Page 43 of 503
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3 Foreword “What is needed to ensure that children, young people and families get the help they need, when they need it?”. This was the ambitious question the team set out to address during this year long research. At one level, there is an obvious answer to this question, and it requires no research: children, young people and families need sufficient food, a warm and secure home, good local childcare and schools, sufficient funds to have some fun, and safe communities around them. Nor is further research needed to demonstrate that poverty severely compromises children's development, piles pressure on parents, and is associated with higher rates of child protection interventions. Scotland has a number of laudable policies aimed at tackling poverty and inequality, however, too many children are still experiencing the effects of poverty and policies have been severely undermined by the crippling cost of living crisis. Add to this the ongoing rippling impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on health and wellbeing and there is no doubt that the level of need for support is high. This unprecedented level of need places a huge demand on the people working to support and protect children. They deserve the best possible working conditions for the essential support they provide. This is why this research is so important because it was designed to inform the future structure and delivery of children’s services to allow practitioners to devote their energies to doing what they most want to – offering timely and effective help to children and families. Because the care, support and protection of children and young people spans so many services, the children’s services workforce was defined broadly for the purposes of this research to include those working in social work, health, education, youth justice, the third sector and the police. However, the extent to which supporting children's wellbeing and protection is viewed in Scotland as 'everyone's job' has its own challenges. Children, parents and carers do not want to tell their story many times to different people but do want their privacy respected. Children, parents and carers want to be able to develop a relationship with a trusted practitioner, but often need the expertise of many different disciplines. Individual practitioners want to develop good working relationships across the professions, but this draws resource and energy away from direct work with children and their families. Leaders in organisations understand the benefits of joint commissioning and pooling resources, but also have limited resources to meet their own organisational duties. Whilst policy emphasises the importance of integration, there is a lack of evidence about how best to achieve integration in practice in the face of these complexities. Therefore, the research team started by looking for insights from around the world. They scoured the available literature and zoomed in to look in more detail at some structures in different countries. It is perhaps both disappointing and encouraging that no simple solution is out there waiting to be dropped into Scotland. And perhaps that is not surprising because all jurisdictions are grappling with many of the same challenges – which involve human Page 44 of 503
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4 beings working with other human beings with all the complexities this brings. What is heartening is that the evidence from this research suggests that Scotland already has many of the essential building blocks identified as important for effective services. The overarching direction of travel, as set by Getting It Right For Every Child (GIRFEC), is congruent with the best theory and practice from across the world. The evidence confirms the importance of a national vision supported by effective and consistent leadership at all levels of service including local teams. Since the Kilbrandon report of 1966 that influenced the establishment of the Children’s Hearing System there has been a golden thread running through children’s services policy in Scotland of a strong commitment to providing timely, holistic, empathic support to children and families. Services may not always have been delivered as envisioned, but there is consensus around the core concept and this thread offers a strong core around which to weave relationship-based practice delivered by well supported and well-resourced practitioners. As shown by the international evidence, there are no quick fixes, improvement requires commitment, consistency and persistence that is driven by collective determination to see the changes through. Organisations in Scotland have not been standing still. There have been many initiatives aimed at improving services, including a considerable amount of structural reform that has led to children's and adult's health and social care services being integrated in different ways. The research team drew on this natural variation to explore the impact of the children’s services structures currently in place and the experiences of the people working within them. Again, perhaps not surprisingly, no one structure jumped out as providing the perfect solution, although there are signs of a general trend of improvement in many outcome measures. The evidence does not suggest that structures are unimportant, but it does show that practitioners do the absolute best they can in whatever structure they find themselves. They create ways to maintain networks with other disciplines and to support children and families. That over 1,400 practitioners took the time to give their views attests to the investment of the workforce in their vocation. There were responses from across all the key disciplines and what shines through is a paradoxical combination of exhaustion and passion. In the face of potentially crushing pressures and constraints, practitioners at all organisational levels remain utterly committed to delivering the best help that they can. Given what is currently achieved within the context of limited human and financial resources and the ever-rising level and complexity of demand, we can only imagine what this dedicated workforce could achieve in an optimal environment. The four detailed individual strand reports provide the evidence needed to create such an environment, and this concluding report has synthesised the key findings and considered the learning and implications for Scotland. With such a committed workforce, a strong foundation is already in place. The evidence also shows that improvements have been made already. Future changes should not derail current effective reforms in which time and resources have already been invested. As shown in the international evidence, reform takes time to bed in, and needs to flow from a clear vision supported by effective national, regional and local leadership. Finally, the most important message from this Page 45 of 503
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5 research lies in the emphasis participants from all disciplines placed on the importance of building and maintaining effective working relationships with children and families. Any proposed structure needs to be tested against this guiding principle. Professor Brigid Daniel, Chair of the Children’s Services Reform Research Independent Steering Group and Professor Emerita, Queen Margaret University Page 46 of 503
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6 Background The Scottish Government has ambitious aims for the country to be the best place in the world for children and young people to grow up (Scottish Government, 2018). Supporting this aim is a complex legislative and policy landscape which seeks to address fundamental issues of poverty, inequality, exclusion and the welfare of all children by providing the right support at the right time, by the right people, irrespective of where families live in the country. These aims are underpinned by a rights-based approach reflecting the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC; UN General Assembly, 1989), implementation of the Getting It Right For Every Child (GIRFEC; Scottish Government, 2012; 2022a) approach, and a commitment to ensure that Scotland keeps The Promise of the Independent Care Review (2020a) to all children and young people so that they grow up safe, loved and respected. The integration of services for different people who need support across children’s and adult’s health and social work and social care services has been influential in shaping Scottish and UK policy over the past 20 years (Brown & White, 2006; Christie, 2011; Baxter et al., 2018; Audit Scotland, 2018). In 2010 the Scottish Government established the Commission on the Future Delivery of Public Services led by Dr Campbell Christie, with a remit to undertake a strategic review of public service delivery in Scotland, and to provide a road map to guide future reform. A key recommendation of the Christie Commission report was that “Public service providers must be required to work much more closely in partnership”, to “integrate service provision” (Christie, 2011, pVI). The report acknowledged that further streamlining of public services was likely to be required but warned that reform should be driven by how best to achieve improved outcomes, “otherwise, we risk bearing the significant costs of structural change, without reaping any real rewards” (Christie, 2011, pX). Integration is considered to improve outcomes to meet differing needs, as well as improve service delivery, efficiency and reduce costs. Within Scotland specifically, the expectation that integration would improve the experiences or outcomes of the people that the integrated services support has meant that integration has often been suggested as a critical element required to carry out the Scottish Government’s vision to improve the wellbeing of the population, including the reduction of poverty and inequality (Audit Scotland, 2018). In September 2020, Scotland’s First Minister announced an Independent Review of Adult Social Care in Scotland. The review’s report, known as the ‘Feeley Report’, was published in February 2021 and recommended the creation of a National Care Service for adult social care, to be delivered locally through reformed Integrated Joint Boards (Feeley, 2021). A consultation on the development of a National Care Service was launched by the Scottish Government in August 2021, including a proposal that children’s social work and social care services should be included within the National Care Service (Scottish Government, 2021a). Page 47 of 503
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7 Following the consultation, the Scottish Government introduced the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill to the Scottish Parliament on 20 June 2022, and produced the National Care Service Statement of Benefits report alongside it. This report considered in more detail the extension of the National Care Service to include children’s social care and justice social work services. It concluded that further evidence was required to inform future decisions around their inclusion or exclusion (Scottish Government 2022b). The Children’s Services Reform Research study contributes to this evidence base, with the Scottish Government asking CELCIS to carry this out. In June 2023, the Scottish Government and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (COSLA) published the New Deal with Local Government, known as the ‘Verity House Agreement’ (COSLA/Scottish Government, 2023). COSLA represent the views of Scotland's 32 local authorities and elected councillors to government and also acts as the employers' association for local authorities. This partnership agreement set out a shared vision between COSLA and the Scottish Government for a more collaborative approach to delivering three shared priorities for the people of Scotland: 1. Tackle poverty, particularly child poverty, in recognition of the joint national mission to tackle child poverty; 2. Transform the economy through a just transition to deliver net zero, recognising climate change as one of the biggest threats to communities across Scotland; and 3. Deliver sustainable person-centred public services recognising the fiscal challenges, ageing demography and opportunities to innovate. The proposals for a National Care Service and the Verity House Agreement act to provide a context to consider how to better meet the needs of children, young people and families, and what the people working in services to support them need so that they can achieve this. These developments are part of a complex policy and delivery landscape in Scotland where there are a number of significant reforms proposed, planned and/or being implemented simultaneously, which the social work, social care, health, education and other workforces in the public, third and private sector are all currently having to navigate. The Scottish Government will decide which, if any, children’s health and social care services are to be included in the National Care Service, and the Children’s Services Reform Research Study was designed to contribute to the evidence base which will be drawn from to make and implement the decision the government takes. Page 48 of 503
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8 Overview of the Children’s Services Reform Research study This Scotland-based research study has been undertaken by CELCIS, the Centre for Excellence for Children’s Care and Protection at the University of Strathclyde. CELCIS was asked by the Scottish Government to carry out this research study with the aim of gathering evidence to inform decision-making about how best to deliver children's services in Scotland in light of the proposed introduction of the National Care Service, and its commitment to keep The Promise of the Independent Care Review. The study was undertaken between September 2022 and December 2023. The Children’s Services Reform Research study was designed as a multi-strand, mixed- methods research study. We focused on drawing together existing national and international evidence on the integration of health and social care services at team, service and systems levels (Strands 1 and 2), and acted to build the evidence base in Scotland on the association between integration and outcomes (Strand 3) and the children’s services workforce experiences of the current service landscape (Strand 4). Each strand of work aimed to contribute to answering the study’s overarching research question: “What is needed to ensure that children, young people and families get the help they need, when they need it?” This concluding report synthesises these four strands of work and discusses the implications which emerge for Scotland to support what is needed to ensure that children, young people and families get the help they need, when they need it. Strand 1: Rapid Evidence Review reviewed existing published national and international research evidence focused on better understanding the evidence associated with different models of integration of children’s services with health and/or adult social care services in high income countries, as defined by the World Bank. The research questions which this review sought to address were: • What models of integration exist for the delivery of children’s social work services with health and/or adult social care services in high income countries? and • What is the strength of evidence about their effectiveness in improving services, experiences and outcomes for children, young people and their families? Strand 2: Case studies of transformational reform programmes examined a range of approaches to the delivery of children’s services to better understand the evidence regarding systems-level integration between children’s social work/social care with health services and/or adult social care. The case studies were drawn from a range of contexts, from national to highly decentralised structures and modes of delivery, in five high-income countries: Finland, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, and the Republic of Ireland. A sixth case study drew on learning from Scotland’s experiences of national service reorganisation through the development of Police Scotland. These Page 49 of 503
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9 country case studies were brought together in one report to consider the key learning and messages for Scotland. Strand 3: Mapping integration and outcomes in Scotland: A statistical analysis investigated if the most recent major structural reform of health and social care services to take place in Scotland has had an impact on outcomes for children, young people and families. We mapped the range of different approaches to integrated service delivery across Scotland’s 32 local authority areas and investigated, through the statistical modelling of administrative data, any potential effects of structural integration on a range of outcomes over time for children and young people supported by public services. In doing this, we also took into account different factors such as geography, poverty, and the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, to assess the likelihood that any findings were directly about integration rather than as a result of other factors. Strand 4: Scotland’s children’s services landscape: The views and experiences of the children’s services workforce explored, through responses to an online survey, interviews and focus groups, the opportunities, challenges, barriers and facilitators that members of the workforce identify as factors which bring about high quality experiences and outcomes for children, young people and families using services; close multi-agency working between practitioners across different services; continuity of support when young people transition to adult services; high quality support for the workforce and transformational change in services. This strand of the research also produced additional insights regarding workforce perceptions of the association between integration and outcomes for children, young people and families and the wellbeing of the workforce. An Independent Steering Group chaired by Professor Brigid Daniel, Professor Emerita at Queen Margaret University, Edinburgh, has supported the design, implementation and delivery of this research study. Their remit has been to provide independent support and oversight to the research team, and to ensure the research is robust and provides the best possible evidence. Throughout the Children’s Services Reform Research study, we have taken very careful account of existing evidence which details the views that children, young people and their families have already shared about their experiences, the support and services they have identified as being needed, and what matters to them. We have also been mindful of the importance of meaningful engagement with children, young people and families, and not repeatedly asking for views when these are already known. This information has been taken from relevant research and reviews of services for children, including the Independent Care Review in Scotland (2020a and 2020b), and is included in a range of ways within the different strand reports of our research study. Page 50 of 503
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10 Synthesis of findings This concluding report considers the full breadth of evidence and findings collated across the four strand reports of the Children’s Services Reform Research study and aims to distil this into a set of study-wide findings. Here, organised under three headings - supporting children, young people and families; supporting the children’s services workforce; and the impact of integration - these study-wide findings complement the specific findings contained within the Discussion sections of the reports of each individual strand of the research. Strand 1: Rapid Evidence Review A review of published research associated with the integration of children’s services with health and/or adult social care services in high income countries. Strand 2: Case Studies of Transformational Reform Programmes Exploration of recent and on-going reforms to children’s services in Finland, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, and the Republic of Ireland; and of the learning from the reform of policing in Scotland and the creation of Police Scotland since 2012. Strand 3: Mapping Integration and Outcomes in Scotland: A Statistical Analysis Using available statistical data, an investigation of whether structural reforms in Scotland to establish Health and Social Care Partnerships has had an impact on outcomes for children, young people and families. Strand 4: Scotland’s children’s services landscape: The views and experiences of the children’s services workforce New data and analysis of Scotland’s children’s services workforce’s views and experiences of local services, multi-agency working, transitions to adult services, support for the workforce, and leadership. Supporting children, young people and families In this section we draw on the evidence from across the study to highlight the importance of relationships between children, young people and families and the practitioners who support them, as well as outline what helps and what gets in the way of building high-quality relationships. The impact of wider factors on children, young people and families are then discussed, before we then highlight that participation and rights is an area that requires further attention. The critical importance of children, young people and families having supportive, empowering and non-judgemental relationships with the practitioners who support them was a key finding from our study. Across Strands 1, 2 and 4, we found that children, young people and families value high-quality relationships with practitioners, who in turn have a better understanding of children, young people and families’ strengths and needs, Page 51 of 503
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11 and can work alongside them to put in place support and services that meet their individual needs. It was clear from Strand 4 that Scotland’s children’s services workforce wants to work in this manner, with practitioners recognising the importance of consistent, sustained relationships that help to build understanding and trust with children, young people and families. However, due to high workloads; staff sickness, absence, turnover and vacancies; short-term funding of services; and services stretched to and beyond capacity, practitioners also reported that they struggle to have the time and stability in their work needed to build such relationships. This means that children, young people and families all too often have to endure the need to continually build new relationships with different practitioners, re-tell their stories with the potential trauma this can entail, and experience fractured planning and decision-making. Children, young people and families often need support from a range of services (for example, social work, health, early learning and childcare, education, family support, financial inclusion, housing and employability), and their needs are best met if practitioners from these different services work together in a holistic, collaborative manner. From Strands 1, 2 and 4, examples of such collaborative working included: the timely sharing of information to support assessments of children, young people and families’ strengths and needs; using shared language and terminology; respecting the expertise of each other; and all committing to the agreed actions and goals for the individual child, young person or family. A single key worker for the child, young person or family was also found to be helpful in bringing the different services together and facilitating timely access to the different services they need. While we heard of examples of strong working relationships between practitioners from different services, barriers to such multi-agency working were also shared. From Strand 4, these included: short-term funding and job instability; siloed working; and professional hierarchies and power imbalances, with third sector and early learning and childcare practitioners reporting that their views and expertise are given less weight when decisions are made. Disparities in pay, working conditions and employment stability were found to be factors behind perceived different levels of esteem and respect afforded to colleagues and partner organisations. There were also participants who described how individual services are governed by different policies and guidance, resulting in different priorities and cultures. Teachers, for example, are focused on children and young people’s learning; while police officers are focused on upholding the law. The policy landscape was also referred to as a factor that can inhibit multi-agency working. If fully aligned, the UNCRC, Getting It Right For Every Child, and The Promise could provide Scotland’s children’s services with a national framework that helps to deliver a continuum of support for children, young people and families, from preventative and early intervention services through to specialist support. However, from Page 52 of 503
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12 Strand 4, we heard of Scotland’s children’s services leaders and practitioners feeling overwhelmed by, and struggling to understand, the multitude of different policies and approaches. This impacts on the quality of multi-agency working as practitioners have insufficient clarity about their own roles and responsibilities, and those of other services. Multi-agency working takes time, resource and leadership commitment, with the importance of effective leadership at national and local levels particularly noted across all strands of the work through its ability to: • Align different policy and legislative developments to bring clarity to practitioners; • Challenge organisational and professional hierarchies and build a shared vision and culture across services; • Create seamless service pathways between different services and local authorities; • Pool resources to fund services and roles that facilitate multi-agency working (for example, co-located service hubs, integrated IT and data systems, and multi- agency practice guidance and tools); • Establish a learning culture where leaders are actively seeking feedback from and listening to children, young people, families and practitioners around what is working well and what is not; and • Provide time for practitioners to engage in multi-agency training and forums where they can build understanding of each other’s roles, services, and ways of working. From the Strand 2 case studies, and from local examples shared in Strand 4, we found that local, multi-agency service hubs formed around the needs of communities can enhance multi-agency working and provide accessible and joined-up services for children, young people and families. While co-locating services is not sufficient in itself to provide better support, what we saw in all the Strand 2 case studies was that these community-based, multi-agency hubs were a key part of the service delivery structure and served an average population of 40,000-60,000 people. Benefits reported within Strands 1 and 2 included: increased use by children, young people and families as the hubs were felt to be welcoming and non-stigmatising; more timely access to services; increased ease for practitioners to share information and work together to meet the needs of children, young people and families; and practitioners more able to provide and receive ad-hoc support and advice from other service disciplines. Again, leadership was found to play an important role in creating the conditions that enable practitioners to work flexibly across service boundaries. These enabling conditions include working collaboratively at a leadership level, agreeing shared objectives, building trust between professionals, and providing the required resources for the hubs. A key finding from all strands of the study was that many children, young people and families are struggling in relation to their health, finances and housing. Strand 3 found Page 53 of 503
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13 that the COVID-19 pandemic and deprivation impacted on a wide range of children and young people’s outcomes. The findings from Strand 4 echoed this with practitioners reporting that these struggles are getting worse through the cost-of-living crisis, cuts to services, and the long-term impact of the COVID-19 pandemic. The level, complexity and diversity of needs among children, young people and families were also found to be changing, including families who have not previously required additional support now coming to the attention of services. In Strand 4, we heard examples of promising developments, such as local strategies to tackle poverty and support financial inclusion (including income maximisation and budget support), or family support strategies that take into account poverty and employability. However, these developments typically depended on short-term funding and so may not be sustained, may be time-limited, or have eligibility criteria which have not been adapted to the changing demography of families in need of additional support. The view therefore from participants in Strand 4 was that children’s services are not designed to tackle these challenges alone, but they can be a part of a whole-systems response. It was clear from the Strand 3 and 4 findings that the COVID-19 pandemic and the resulting public health restrictions have had a significant and enduring impact on the lives of Scotland’s children, young people and families, as well as on the services and practitioners that are there to respond to their needs. In Strand 3 we found that the COVID-19 pandemic had a statistically significant impact on a number of children’s outcomes; while in Strand 4, practitioners told us about the changing level, complexity and diversity of children, young people and families’ needs since the pandemic; that improvements to Scotland’s children’s services prior to the pandemic had been curtailed; and, for the workforce who worked through the pandemic, that they are exhausted and yet are now responding to increased need among children, young people and families. Within Strand 4, we also found frustration across all levels of the workforce that some of the learning and innovative practice from what worked well during the pandemic have already begun to be lost. Examples of flexible funding, reduced bureaucracy, more flexible working arrangements, increased autonomy of practitioners, and a strong sense of collective working across services were all highlighted as positive developments but have since dwindled. Another area of innovation brought about by the COVID-19 pandemic and the associated public health restrictions was the increased use of online meeting technologies to facilitate multi-agency meetings involving children, young people and families. The experience of these online meetings was mixed, with the workforce both describing their impact as increasing and inhibiting participation of different children, young people and families. Page 54 of 503
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14 In considering ‘what is needed to ensure that children, young people and families get the help they need, when they need it?’, making sure that the rights of children, young people and families are respected and upheld in all the services they receive is a critical concern. In Strands 2 and 4, there was widespread commitment to listening to, involving and empowering children, young people and families, in line with Article 12 of the UNCRC. In practice, we found that delivery of this commitment has predominantly been on supporting the voice of children, young people and families to be heard in child’s planning meetings. From Strand 4, positive developments included practitioners adapting the means of communicating with children and young people to meet their communications needs, providing advocacy support, having child-friendly meeting rooms, and introducing post-meeting feedback forms to understand children, young people and families’ experience of meetings. Notwithstanding these developments, hearing the voices of young children and of disabled children and young people remain an area for further practice development, while there are also challenges in ensuring the respective views of different meeting participants are equally heard, and a need to end the use of inaccessible, professionalised language used in meetings and child’s plans. Our Strand 3 work also identified a lack of data in Scotland where children, young people and families are asked about their experiences of services. There was less evidence of how children, young people and families are involved in the design and development of services. Across the Strand 2 case studies, and in Scotland, there is the role of a national Children’s Commissioner which helps to ensure children and young people’s rights are fully considered. At the local level, many local authority areas in Scotland have ‘champions boards’ of children and young people with care experience where they can share their views with local leaders. However, despite children’s services being for children, young people and families, their views and experiences were not found to be widely sought and then taken into account when it comes to the planning, design and development of services. Supporting the children’s services workforce This section predominantly draws on the evidence from Strand 4 to consider the perspectives of the children’s services workforce, the challenges practitioners are experiencing, the supports they benefit from, and their experience of leaders and leadership. We found that the children’s services workforce is passionate, highly committed, and working hard to build supportive relationships with Scotland’s children, young people and families and best meet their needs. However, it is a workforce that is in crisis. Strand 4 participants reported that they were under-staffed, under-resourced, and facing unmanageable pressure. Increased levels of stress, poor mental health and wellbeing, Page 55 of 503
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15 and poor work-life balance were all found to be contributing to high levels of staff sickness, absence, turnover and vacancies. The lack of good quality workforce data that Strand 3 identified as a limitation means it is, however, difficult to fully quantify the scale of the crisis. This crisis has built up over several years but has been exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic, with an exhausted workforce now responding to an increasing demand for services. Furthermore, it is not a crisis that is specific to Scotland, as recruitment and retention difficulties were widely reported in the Strand 2 case studies. The implications for children, young people and families are significant as practitioners have limited time and opportunities to think, discuss, reflect and plan on how best to support children, young people and families; and to participate in training, supervision and peer support that can enhance their practice. Also, from a multi-agency working perspective, high and unmanageable workloads impact on the time available to build relationships with other services, and to engage in internal or multi-agency change and improvement work. We identified a number of longstanding service gaps within Scotland’s service provision that continue to negatively impact on children, young people and families who need support. Similar gaps were widely reported in our Strand 1 review of the literature and present within the Strand 2 case studies. Indeed, a key objective of the Strand 2 transformational reform programmes was to address these gaps but, despite the reforms, these still persist. Some of the gaps are specific to children’s services and relate to: the provision of preventative and early intervention services; access to specialist health services, particularly mental health services; and access to supports for children with additional support needs. Other gaps stretch across children’s and adult services, including holistic family support where adult services and children’s services work together to collectively meet the needs of families; transitions for young people into adult services; and recovery services that support children, young people and adults who have experienced trauma for as long as they need them. Many of the gaps that were identified from the evidence considered in Strands 1, 2 and 4 were similar to the areas where there was limited data available for the Strand 3 work. This makes quantifying the scale of the gaps in provision problematic, and measuring progress even harder still. While these gaps clearly impact on children, young people and families, they also impact on the workforce as practitioners can struggle to access services for that the people they support and so are left holding issues without the resources, and potentially skills and abilities, to manage these. Investing in the workforce extends beyond increasing the number of practitioners working in Scotland’s children’s services. It also requires investing in the training, development, supervision and wellbeing of Scotland’s children’s services workforce to ensure that all practitioners have the skills and confidence to deliver high quality support for children, young people and families. In response to their own recruitment and Page 56 of 503
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16 retention difficulties, we saw how the programmes and approaches in the Strand 2 case studies were seeking to better support their workforces, such as through enhanced inductions and buddies for new staff, wellbeing supports for staff, and more attention to workforce planning. In Strand 4, we found that a number of employers were investing in their workforce, with examples including flexible working opportunities, team building activities, and multi-agency training that helps to build shared understanding and relationships between different services. However, these examples were often at a small scale and not provided equally to all parts of the children’s services workforce, with newly qualified social workers and early learning and childcare workers in particular not benefiting from a consistently high level of support and supervision. Added to this was the recognition of the impact that a loss of experienced leaders, managers and practitioners is having on the workforce due to the absence of the knowledge and support that experienced colleagues can provide. Leaders have a vital role in supporting the workforce, yet practitioners working in Scotland’s children’s services have varied experiences of their support. Strand 1 highlighted that committed leadership and shared culture, across and at all levels of the system (both horizontal between services, and vertical within services) are essential to the efforts undertaken to improve services and outcomes. Shared or distributed forms of leadership across levels were also found to be important in terms of fostering collaboration and supporting change. However, being a leader is not easy and leaders involved in Strand 4 reported the challenge of managing increasing demand for services against reduced resources or workforce shortages, and some shared that, at times, they feel isolated and unsupported in their roles. The complex role of being a leader was evident in how Scotland’s children’s services workforce rated its leaders. From Strand 4, practitioners’ experience of their leaders was mixed and, indeed, the main sentiment expressed was one of a disconnect between national policy makers, civil servants, local leaders, managers and frontline practitioners. To address this, Strand 4 offered insights into what the workforce is looking for from its leaders. Key aspects included: being visible and approachable; listening and responding to workforce needs; investing in the workforce through training, supervision and wellbeing support; empowering their staff; and celebrating successes. The workforce also wants to see a reduction in the bureaucratic and administrative demands on them, as this would allow them to spend more of their time working directly with children, young people and families, and/or building relationships with other services. The multiple IT and management information systems that exist within and across different services was evident from our Strand 3 work and was a common frustration shared by Scotland’s children’s services workforce in Strand 4. There was consequently a desire for shared and integrated IT and data systems that could improve information sharing; assist with the development of multi-agency chronologies, assessments and Page 57 of 503
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17 child’s plans; and provide clarity on outcomes for children, young people and families that all practitioners and services are working towards. The challenge of working with multiple IT systems was a common theme identified in the case studies of transformational change programmes explored for the Strand 2 case studies and the Republic of Ireland potentially provides important learning through the significant investment made by Tusla: the national Child and Family Agency to establish the Tusla Data Hub, integrated National Child Care Information System, and Tusla Case Management System. The impact of integration We have also drawn on the evidence from across the study to consider the concept of integration, how integration of health and social care has taken different forms and cannot include all services, and the challenges of both assessing the impact of and implementing such transformational reforms. Within Strands 1, 2 and 4, a common belief was that the integration of services can better meet the needs of children, young people and families. In Strand 2, the case study countries viewed service integration as a key means of addressing longstanding challenges that are also evident in Scotland, such as the fragmentation of children’s services, adult health needs dominating over the needs of children and young people, and the limited participation of children, young people and families. Similarly, there were some views expressed within Strand 4 that service integration can make a positive difference, although the Strand 4 focus group and interview participants also shared varied experiences of service integration to date in Scotland. While integration was largely viewed across Strands 1, 2 and 4 as a positive development, a key finding from Strand 1 was that integration is a difficult term to define. Within the literature, ‘integration’ as a term was used but without it being defined or explained in terms of what integration aims to achieve and how it will be implemented. In some articles, a distinction was made between structural integration and service integration, with the latter more frequently discussed. Other terms were also used such as ‘collaboration’, ‘multi-agency working’ or ‘unified service’, while theoretical models were offered that depicted a continuum of stages from non-integration to integration but with little discussion of how to progress from one stage to the next. While integration was talked about in different ways, there were activities identified in the evidence review for Strand 1 that were seen to help build integration. We conceptualised these as the components of integration model (Figure 1). The evidence does not enable us to say whether all components are needed for integration to happen, whether one component is more important than another, or even if these components together are sufficient to create an 'integrated' system. However, the evidence would Page 58 of 503
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18 suggest that the more that these components are in place, the more integrated the system will be. When integration in Scotland was looked at more closely in our Strand 3 and 4 work, we sought to categorise the extent to which children’s services were integrated within each local authority area in Scotland. However, this too showed the complexity in identifying and defining what was meant as ‘integration’ and, indeed, how ‘integration’ is understood by different services, practitioners and leaders. Figure 1: Components of integration identified from Strand 1 The desire for more integrated services for children, young people and families was a key driver behind the transformational reform programmes we explored in Strand 2. However, each example we looked at took a different approach to service integration, with national (New Zealand, Northern Ireland, and Republic of Ireland), regional (Finland) and local (the Netherlands) approaches all evident, and none to date yet having the positive impact aspired to. Consequently, there was not a single ‘off the shelf’ approach for Scotland to adopt. Instead, our examination of these case studies identified a number of features found across them that characterise an integrated children’s health and social care system (Figure 2) and could be used to inform future reforms in Scotland. These show the importance of local, integrated service arrangements, Page 59 of 503
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19 supported by national functions, that respond to the needs of children, young people and families. Figure 2: Six common features identified from the Strand 2 case studies that integrated children’s health and social care services need to have in place When considering service integration, there is a tendency to focus on the structures and services that are coming together. However, there was recognition within Strand 1 that relationships with services which sit outside the integrated provision need to be retained, with the relationship between education and integrated health and social care services specifically referred to. Similarly, in Strand 4, there was awareness that no structure can encompass all services that children, young people and families need (for example, health, education, social work, early learning and childcare, family support, youth justice, adult services, housing, and financial services). There will consequently always be some boundaries across which different services will need to work together to support children, young people and families, and it is these boundaries where gaps and weaknesses in service provision can be most acute. In Strand 4, the boundary between children’s and adult services were found to be a key area identified as needing improvement in terms of supporting young people’s transition to adult services, and for Page 60 of 503
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20 adult services to work alongside children’s services in meeting the holistic needs of families. From Strand 2, we found very limited discussion on the connection of newly integrated health and social care structures to education services, yet our findings from Strand 1 and 4 highlight the vital role that the early learning and childcare and education workforces play in children’s lives. In Strand 3, a focus of our work was to understand Scotland’s integration arrangements at the local authority area level, and assess whether different structures have had different impacts on children’s services and their outcomes for children, young people and families. Of most interest was Scotland’s Health and Social Care Partnership (HSCP) structures, with the Public Bodies (Joint Working) (Scotland) Act 2014 offering agencies flexibility in what children’s services in their local authority area they can transfer to HSCPs. However, this flexibility has resulted in HSCP structures that are varied, complex and subject to change, and we sometimes found it difficult to determine which agency or structure (the local authority, the NHS health board and/or Integrated Joint Board/HSCP) was responsible for the local delivery and governance of the many services that make up children’s health and social care services. Notwithstanding the variations in HSCP arrangements identified in the Strand 3 work, the different structures for health and social care provision in Scotland offered the opportunity to assess whether different levels of structural integration had an impact on outcomes for children and young people. We assessed this in by allocating each local authority area to a fully, partially or not structurally integrated category, and then analysing whether any change over time across 25 outcome indicators of children’s wellbeing could be associated with the different levels of structural integration. In our analysis, we found there had been statistically significant changes in 22 of the 25 outcomes indicators over the time period studied (2010-2021 where data was available), but no consistent evidence of an association between levels of structural integration and the changes. Similar reflections were offered in Strand 4 as practitioners offered several examples of multi-agency initiatives or services at strategic and local levels that they felt were impacting positively on the lives of children, young people and families, but they found it difficult to identify the extent to which integrated working practices alone had contributed to these outcomes. Our Strand 3 analysis did, however, find that deprivation and, to a lesser degree, the COVID-19 pandemic, and population density, were associated with many of the 25 outcomes. Change over the time period was largely in a direction that would be considered positive, but setbacks have been seen for several outcomes in more recent years in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic and a worsening economic climate having an impact on individuals and on public service funding. Page 61 of 503
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21 Using the categorisation of Scotland’s local authority areas we developed in the Strand 3 work and the responses to the Strand 4 workforce survey, we had the opportunity to assess whether there was any association between structural integration and more integrated services and forms of working. Like the results from Strand 3, we found no statistically significant associations between the different levels of structural integration and the experiences of more integrated services and forms of working. Our statistical findings bring into question what impact different structural arrangements have but, to some degree, these findings should not be entirely surprising given the complexities around integration and the challenge of attribution when other factors (such as economic forces, political change and the COVID-19 pandemic) are in play. However, our work also highlighted that in Scotland and the countries where the Strand 2 case studies were conducted, limited consideration had been given to how and when to assess the impact of integration. The same was true in our Strand 1 rapid evidence review of the literature that has been published. The limited availability and quality of longitudinal statistical data needed for measuring outcomes was also apparent, with key data gaps in relation to early concerns and referrals of children to services; children, young people and families’ experiences of services; and workforce wellbeing. One of the challenges of assessing the impact of transformational reforms, such as the transformational reform programmes we looked at for Strand 2 and the HSCP structures in Scotland studied in Strand 3, is that these take many years to implement and then longer still for their impact to be seen. Across the Strand 2 case studies, there was a recognition that transformational change is not a single event but is instead a complex and prolonged process. A 10-year timeframe from the initial change announcement or legislation was widely referred to in Strand 2. The Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Act that led to the creation of Police Scotland was, for example, passed in 2012 and it has taken a decade to form a national organisation. Change is also a contested process, with our review for Strand 1 finding that practitioners can be resistant to change on account of their own beliefs and their concerns about new ways of working and service models. Similarly, there can be transformation fatigue as practitioners become weary of continuous change and improvement initiatives. Related concerns were raised in Strand 4 with the workforce concerned about the upheaval that a potential restructure would have on Scotland’s children’s services given the substantial pressure the sector is currently under. However, there was also recognition that some form of change is needed. Given the challenges associated with the implementation of transformational reforms, the findings from the Strand 2 case studies highlighted the need for a series of inter- Page 62 of 503
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22 related foundations to be in place (Figure 3). These encompass the importance of a conducive and settled domestic environment, thorough planning and appraisal of the reform programme at its inception stage, and long-term political and implementation support. Figure 3: Implementation learning and experiences from the Strand 2 case studies Transformational leadership is another of the foundations, with Strands 1 and 2 highlighting the importance of leaders aligning policies, providing clear direction, communicating the change clearly, and making available the required resources for change to be implemented at a local level. From Strand 4, practitioners also shared how they valued leaders who were knowledgeable about change methodologies and skilled in change management. In terms of resources to implement change, this includes making sure that the ability to respond to children’s health and social care needs is not compromised by the pressures on wider public services, in particular the health and care needs of older people; and, from Strand 2, may also include establishing ‘champion’, ‘co-ordinator’ or ‘interface’ roles that work across services to support more integrated working. Page 63 of 503
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23 Implications for Scotland The Promise of the Independent Care Review (2020a) powerfully outlined what children, young people and families say is needed to ensure that children grow up loved, safe and respected. The evidence from our study suggests that there are a range of implications regarding what is needed from structures, systems and services, and what the workforce needs, to ensure not only that children, young people and families receive the help they need, when they need it, but also to ensure that The Promise is able to be kept. These implications were raised within the four strand reports from the study, and this concluding report provides an opportunity to bring these together in one place and reflect on what needs to be considered in order to address them. Relationships are the cornerstone of high-quality practice, as they are the mechanism through which children, young people and families feel most able to work with practitioners in a safe, open and empowering manner. Relationships also provide the basis from which practitioners can utilise evidence-informed approaches in the support they provide. In the evidence reviewed for our study, children, young people and families emphasised the value they place on having consistent, trusting, supportive and non-judgemental relationships with practitioners. Urgent action needs to be taken to address the systemic issues which are preventing practitioners from having the time and space to develop these relationships with children, young people and families. However, given the depth of the workforce crisis in Scotland, and the resources it will take to address this crisis, the solutions will require long-term commitment and investment. In our study, whilst practitioners often spoke about ‘relationship-based practice’, the predominant focus was on having the time and space needed to develop relationships with children, young people and families. However, relationship-based practice is more than this. It focuses on the complexities of human relationships which are often present when children, young people and families need the support of services, and the emotional labour this requires. It draws from a knowledge base rooted in psychological and sociological theories of human growth and development (Trevithick, 2003; Ruch, 2020), and works to take account of the imbalance of power that can be present (Turney, 2012; Ruch et al., 2018; Ferguson et al., 2020). For relationship-based practice to be effective, practitioners and managers need the time and space for reflective, relationship-based supervision and support in the context of a relationship-based organisation (Ruch, 2020). Consideration should therefore be given to how organisations can focus on prioritising and supporting relationship-based practice. Manageable workloads and the lessening of bureaucratic and administrative tasks will be crucial, but it also involves developing a culture which actively provides time and space for reflective, relationship-based Page 64 of 503
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24 supervision and support. Practitioners could also be supported to undertake relationship- based practice within the context of continuous learning and development. Lack of access to early help and preventative family support services, and to specialist health, mental health and disability support were identified as longstanding service gaps and weaknesses in Scotland in our study. The lack of secure, long-term funding for services, particularly early help and preventative family support services in the third sector was highlighted as contributing to these gaps and weaknesses. In addition, weaknesses concerning the fractured transitions for young people into adult services, and adult and children's services not working together to meet the needs of families as a whole, were also identified. These gaps and weaknesses need renewed and continued attention by national and local leaders. Any legislative, policy, funding and structural changes to Scotland's children's and adult's services need to close these longstanding service gaps and address these weaknesses. The needs and experiences of children, young people and families should be understood, supported and responded to at an early stage when needs arise. Our research highlighted the benefit of multi-agency ‘hubs’ being available in localities, approaches that look at the needs holistically. When designed and developed around the individual and specific needs and lives of families, these local hubs can serve a wide range of needs in a way that is experienced as being non-stigmatising, and can be available at times which work to best support families, including evenings and weekends. In many respects, these findings are reminiscent of the UK’s Sure Start approach which had many positives in relation to supporting children and their families in ways that were strengths- based and non-stigmatising (Education and Training Inspectorate, 2018; Cattan et al., 2022). Realising the rights of children, as enshrined in the UNCRC, has grown in importance in Scotland. Our study found that progress has been made in Scotland in relation to the participation of children, young people and families in the meetings and decisions that affect their lives. However, further work and resources are needed to ensure that the voices of all children, young people and families are heard, particularly those of young children and disabled children, young people, parents and carers. Children’s rights and participation should also inform the strategic planning of services, and yet we found limited evidence of this in the evidence we reviewed and generated for this study. Children, young people and families’ views and experiences should be sought in ensuring services respond to their needs, with leaders needing to consider and appraise the extent to which policy, legislative, funding and structural changes to Scotland’s children’s and adult’s services will help achieve the full realisation of children’s rights. Page 65 of 503
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25 Our research paints a stark picture of the crisis that is present across the children’s services workforce in Scotland in 2023, despite the passion and commitment of practitioners to meet the needs of children, young people and families. However, Scotland is not alone in experiencing this crisis, as was evidenced in our case studies, illustrating that this is a pervasive and long-standing issue across a range of jurisdictions, which is challenging to address. Investment is needed in the workforce, in several ways, to address this crisis so that children, young people and families are more likely be supported, when they need support. In the longer-term, consideration should be given to increasing the size of the workforce, but there are a range of other actions which could be considered in the short- to medium-term to address the recruitment and retention crisis. These include: • Enhancing the public and media perceptions of the children’s services sector so that it is viewed as a career of choice; • Consideration of pay rates across the children’s services sector so that there is less differential between pay rates in different services and between different local authorities. A move to national pay levels that reflect the value placed upon the work of practitioners in a range of children’s services, including children’s social care and social work, early years and third sector professionals in Scotland, albeit with some flexibility or local weightings, could be considered; • Greater workforce planning across the children’s services sector, where employers and skills providers (such as universities and colleges) work more closely together to meet current and future recruitment and skills needs. High-quality, consistent and comparable workforce data, which includes a good understanding of the size, needs, wellbeing, capacity and experiences of the workforce, is critical to such planning; • Addressing issues of short-term funding across children’s services, so that services are better able to retain staff. Investing in the workforce entails more than increasing its size and stability. It also requires investing in and supporting the existing workforce, such as through enhanced support for newly qualified practitioners, regular high-quality supervision and support, excellent learning and development opportunities, and attending to staff wellbeing. Leaders have a critical role to play here in nurturing a supportive culture where the learning, development and wellbeing of the workforce are truly valued. Multi-agency working is an integral component of Scotland’s Getting It Right For Every Child approach (GIRFEC; Scottish Government, 2022a). However, our research has indicated that some of the values and principles which form the foundation of GIRFEC, particularly “everyone working together in local areas and across Scotland to improve outcomes for children, young people and their families” (Scottish Government, 2022a) Page 66 of 503
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26 are continuing to be challenging to implement in practice. The benefits to children, young people and families of effective multi-agency working on their wellbeing and safety are well established. Factors such as better communication and co-ordination between practitioners through information sharing and collaboration, easier access to services and the opportunity for constructive professional challenge all contribute to improved outcomes (Walker, 2018). Leaders and practitioners need to be given the time, resources and support to develop and maintain strong multi-agency relationships. Furthermore, there will always be a need for leaders and practitioners to navigate service and system boundaries, whether or not children’s services become part of the National Care Service, due to the range of services involved. Close attention therefore needs to be paid to how to facilitate effective working across system and service boundaries in the context of multi-agency working. This work is challenging as it includes the often long-term and ongoing ‘hidden’ work of developing trusting relationships across service and system boundaries to develop shared language, culture and ways of working. The ability to do this is made more challenging in the context of the workforce crisis, and effective multi-agency working will be difficult to fully implement until there is progress in addressing this crisis. The impact of poverty and deprivation on people’s health, wellbeing and the pressures people face in their day-to-day lives can never be underestimated. Our research highlighted that all decision-makers and policy-makers across national services and government portfolios need to continue listen to children, young people and families who are experiencing poverty and the impact this is having, and to actively consider what more they can do to best meet the financial, housing and health challenges being experienced by so many. There are significant challenges affecting children, young people, families and communities across Scotland due to the rising cost-of-living and increased levels of poverty and housing difficulties. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation’s Poverty in Scotland report (2023) highlighted that over a million people in Scotland are living in poverty, including around 250,000 children, with the level of UK welfare payments unable to meet essential living costs. Glasgow City Council, The City of Edinburgh Council, and Argyll and Bute Council have all declared housing emergencies in recent months, citing high homelessness levels, a lack of social housing and spiralling private renting costs as contributing to the emergency. Whilst there have been a range of actions from national and local government to mitigate the impact of poverty, including the Scottish Child Payment, the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic and the rising cost-of-living pose significant difficulties to ongoing policy approaches. Furthermore, given the strength of evidence that indicates an association between poverty, child abuse and neglect in Scotland and other countries in the UK (Bywaters et al., 2016; Bunting et al., 2018; Bywaters et al., 2022), it remains imperative that action to address poverty and deprivation in Scotland continues to be prioritised. Page 67 of 503
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27 Our study found that practitioners described working in the context of a cluttered, insufficiently aligned and, at times, contradictory legislative and policy landscape. Policy changes were described as being ‘layered on’ without a clear understanding of the impacts on other existing policies, which results in confusion and a continual shifting of focus. Local leaders, managers and practitioners are also struggling with implementation, particularly as there is no national sequencing, insufficient support for implementation, and all services are trying to manage the crisis in recruitment and retention at the same time. All these issues impact on the ability of services to achieve the outcomes needed to improve the lives of children, young people and families. In considering any changes to the structure and delivery of children’s services, it will be important for national and local government to carefully consider whether the legislative and policy context would benefit from being simplified, and to focus on how the alignment between policies and approaches (for example incorporating the UNCRC, GIRFEC and The Promise) can be more clearly delineated, communicated, and operationalised for frontline practice. In our study, the workforce clearly communicated a disconnect between national leaders and the realities of local, on-the-ground experiences. This ‘top down’ approach needs to change with greater involvement of local leaders, practitioners and children, young people and families in planning what changes are needed and when they should be introduced. This is predicated on national leaders actively seeking input and feedback, and then using that local expertise and experience to shape its approach to change and determine what is needed for successful implementation. Our study also highlighted the importance of leaders at all levels working collaboratively across service and system boundaries. This refers not only to leaders responsible for social work, social care, education, health and other specific service disciplines, but also to those responsible for finance and commissioning, who can have a key role in removing longstanding barriers. More openness is needed to acknowledge, understand and jointly address the challenges that emerge during policy implementation. There should also be sufficient attention and time allowed for learning what works and why, when implementing new policy, programmes or practice. Given the new ways of working that this would entail, collaborative leadership needs to become integral to any complex change effort and this needs to be strengthened across Scotland. In addition, local leaders highlighted the need for some functions to be led at a national level to support local service delivery, including implementation of national policy and guidance, workforce planning and data infrastructure. Data plays an essential role in providing insights into the needs and experiences of children, young people and families requiring the support of services. Good data can Page 68 of 503
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28 inform decision-making by practitioners and can provide evidence about what works for children and their families, the quality of practice, and which services are most effective. However, practitioners do not always feel that data collection informs and assists their practice directly, which means that data collection can be viewed as an unwelcome burden, rather than a benefit. Data can also tell us about the experiences and outcomes of children, young people and families. However, this experiential, qualitative information is often more difficult to capture and analyse than process-driven measurements. As such, many of the available indicators relate more to the operation of specific services rather than to the outcomes that these services may lead to for children, young people and families. Additionally, and notably in the context of this research, the available indicators have not been designed to measure the effects of integration. There has been ongoing work in Scotland to improve the data landscape, including the development of the Children, Young People and Families Outcomes Framework which includes a set of core wellbeing indicators (Scottish Government, 2022c); mapping of data that matters to children and families in Scotland which is led by The Promise Scotland (The Promise Scotland, 2023); and the review of Children’s Social Work Statistics (Scottish Government, 2021b). Notwithstanding these developments, work needs to continue to develop different types of data which reflect what is important to children, young people and families, including means of capturing their experiences of services. Furthermore, despite a strong policy focus on early help and prevention, data is not routinely collected nationally on, for example, initial referrals of children to social work services, or subsequent identification of need for care and support that falls short of child protection thresholds. This data is routinely collected in England (Department for Education, 2023), and would be of benefit in Scotland to inform the planning, delivery and evaluation of early help services. A further data gap relates to the data submitted to the Scottish Government on children with experience of care through the Looked After Children Survey (Scottish Government, 2022d). Within this dataset, the reasons why a child comes into care, or experiences a change in where they are cared for, are not captured. Better data on why events occur would make the dataset much more informative. integrated or shared data systems can support multi-agency working as they can enable practitioners to more easily share information between one another. A longer-term development for consideration is to invest in integrated or shared data systems, learning from the experience of the SEEMiS system in Scotland’s education system and from the introduction of integrated data systems by Tusla, the Republic of Ireland’s Child and Family Agency. In designing and developing a more integrated data infrastructure, there is the opportunity to review what data should be collected and how that data is collected, with the aim of collecting more consistent, accurate and timely information on the needs, experiences and outcomes of Scotland’s children, young people and families. However, any new system needs to be planned and introduced carefully to prevent duplication of effort by practitioners using both old and new systems. Page 69 of 503
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29 Our study has highlighted the complex relationship between integration and outcomes. Partly this relates to the difficulty of defining integration, and our work in Scotland focused on the impact of structural integration through Scotland’s Health and Social Care Partnership (HSCP) structures. There is a challenge in being able to establish what the aims of integration are and how these aims are best measured. Statistical data can be used to measure aims related to improved outcomes for children, young people and families, but there are currently the gaps in this data in Scotland thus making this difficult to assess. Experiential data can also be drawn upon, and this was the approach taken via our workforce survey which asked about more integrated ways of working. There is a need to enhance our understanding of integration and how this impacts on children, young people, families and the workforce. Our methodology, the components of integration model, and similar work carried out in England (O’Brien at al., 2009), offer approaches to build on but further work is needed. Any further structural reform of public services should seek to simplify integration arrangements already in place and be clearer about the impacts expected to result from integration. Greater consistency across Scotland would remove some of the uncertainty and risk being experienced currently. Concerns have been expressed about a risk of fragmentation of children’s services because responsibility for parts of services may lie within different structures (Brock & Everingham, 2018). Children's Services Planning Partnerships (CSPPs) were established through the Children and Young People (Scotland) Act 2014 (Part 3) to bring together the organisations that have a part to play in improving outcomes for children, young people and families. Many Health and Social Care Partnerships (HSCPs) also have responsibility for at least some children’s health and children’s social care services, although, as we found in our study, the precise extent and nature of responsibility for children’s health services in particular can be difficult to determine. The challenge is that there are different planning and reporting requirements for CSPPs and HSCPs. Effective co-operation between agencies can occur under different structural arrangements, and CSPPs and HSCPs may well work well together in some areas, but the benefits of the current complex picture are difficult to determine. Our study has shown that reforms take many years to plan, design, adapt, and deliver and, even once delivered, may not have the positive impact aspired to. Children’s services comprise of such a highly complex and inter-woven set of policies, services and workforces to meet a broad range of circumstances and needs, that the implementation of any reform must begin with joined-up national and local leadership providing a clear and shared vision of the change aspired to, why it is needed, and what it will take to Page 70 of 503
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30 deliver. An understanding by leaders of what it takes to achieve change is vital: without this, the time, space, permissions and resources that is required cannot be built. Services are delivered by people, for people: the workforce needs support to engage with the change, build relationships with practitioners from other services, and/or update their practices. Our case studies highlighted that developing a theory of change which articulates this vision can be a mobilising and pivotal approach. A theory of change is complex to develop and implement, but used flexibly and updated regularly, it can provide clarity on what the change being aspired to is, how it is to be implemented, who is going to implement it, how long implementation will take, and how it will be known whether implementation is happening and having the desired impact. Given the complexity of children’s services, a theory of change for any reform in this area should also consider any initial and emerging unintended consequences. For example, through implementing one reform, is the implementation of another reform impacted or, indeed, the delivery of existing and highly valued services for children, young people and families disrupted? Emerging data and learning should therefore be collected along the way and used by leaders on an ongoing basis to understand barriers and progress: inform decision-making and any adaptations that need to be made to the theory of change; and inform updates to plans and the resources needed. The theory of change will also need to operate in the context of the impact that wider or external factors can have. How the economic and political changes, workforce recruitment and retention difficulties, and the COVID-19 pandemic impacted on many of the approaches and outcomes our study looked at should be noted. Page 71 of 503
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31 Conclusions The Children’s Services Reform Research study aimed to contribute to the future design and delivery of children’s services in Scotland through answering the research question “What is needed to ensure that children, young people and families receive the help they need, when they need it?” This question has provided an opportunity to step back from the binary question of whether children’s services should be ‘in’ or ‘out’ of the proposed National Care Service, and instead focus more broadly on what is needed to improve the wellbeing of children, young people and families who require support. No clear solution emerged from our four strands of work that can be directly lifted and applied to shape the future structure of children’s services in ways which meet the needs of children and families and improve outcomes. The review of existing national and international evidence highlighted the importance of relationships between children, young people, families and the practitioners who support them, and of multi-agency working at the local/community level. However, irrespective of whether a national, regional or local approach to service integration was predominantly taken, similar issues and challenges were reported. Across all four strands of work there was evidence of consistent challenges around access to services, workforce recruitment and retention, stable funding and in successfully translating the aims and vision of change into improving outcomes for children, young people and families. Our examination and analysis of experiences to date regarding structural integration in Scotland did not find evidence of a clear relationship between structural integration and outcomes for children, young people and families, or between structural integration and the experiences and views of the children’s services workforce. This evidence and its implications should be carefully considered in the context of developing and delivering any change to the structure, functions and delivery of children’s services in Scotland, whether children’s services become part of or remain outside a National Care Service. The evidence throughout this study has emphasised that whilst structures do matter in a variety of ways, what matters most is not the structure itself, but how the structure enables the workforce to provide the help and support that children, young people and families need, when they need this. Any change to the structure and delivery of children’s services must focus on creating the optimal conditions needed to enable success in improving the lives of the children, young people and families who need the support of services. Our study has identified a range of elements that contribute to developing these optimal conditions: • Supportive, trusting and consistent relationships between children, young people and families, and the practitioners who support them. • A focus on realising rights and improving the participation of children, young people and families in decisions which affect their lives. • Local, high quality and long-term funded service provision that is non-stigmatising and responsive to the wide range of needs of children and young people, families and communities. Page 72 of 503
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32 • A sufficient and skilled workforce who have manageable workloads and receive the support they need from leaders at all levels. • Some functions being led at a national level, including development and implementation of national policy and guidance, workforce planning and data infrastructure to support local service delivery. • Structures which actively enable the workforce to provide the help and support that children, young people and families need, and to work together in partnership seamlessly across service and system boundaries. • Effective and wide-reaching measures to combat the poverty faced by many children and families. • A simplified and aligned legislative and policy landscape. • An approach to planning and implementing change that acknowledges the complexity of human relations and systems, makes the best use of existing evidence but also pays attention to emerging learning. The approach needs to use both technical strategies and innovation to overcome barriers and achieve sustainable outcomes, being supported by people skilled in complex change, sufficiently resourced and with a long-term commitment. Working to ensure that these elements are in place will assist Scotland to continue to work towards fulfilling its aim to be the best place in the world for children and young people to grow up in. With the conclusion of this study, Scotland now has the fullest picture yet regarding what is required and what makes a difference in providing effective, meaningful and well- resourced support whenever and wherever children, young people and their families need this. The integration of services is often thought to be a solution to the challenges of providing seamless, timely and well-managed services, but the process of integration is complex and nuanced, with many factors that can facilitate or impede the ability to achieve the aims behind integration. Close attention needs to be paid to the very real examples and evidence brought together in this study to use this learning to shape the way forward for improving children’s services for all Scotland’s children, young people and their families. Page 73 of 503
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33 Areas for future research Our study’s focus on reviewing and generating national and international evidence to answer our overarching research question has provided a wide breadth of evidence. In particular, it has highlighted the common issues and challenges that are present when working with integration and the complex change behind reforming services. However, this rapid work completed in a little over a year means that beyond the scope of the Children’s Services Reform Research study for the Scottish Government, the research team’s work to explore aspects of the data’s depth and richness will continue. The reports of each of the strands of work have identified specific issues and areas that this study has brought to light and would merit further research. These include: • A more detailed exploration of the prevailing trends regarding outcomes for children, young people and families is needed to provide greater insight into the range of explanatory factors which are influencing the experiences and outcomes of children, young people and families within Scotland. • Engaging with the adult services workforce (including housing, alcohol and drugs, and employability services) to better understand young people's transitions into adult services, including identifying the enablers and barriers to seamless transitions. • Further exploration of what good-quality practice exists in supporting children and families, what this practice looks like, and what factors support and hinder this practice. • A look at the tendency towards higher levels of structural integration in the west of Scotland than the east that was identified by this study, to explore the reasons behind these differences. • Work to understand how children can be meaningfully involved in the design, development and governance of large-scale service reforms and restructures, and what impact their involvement has on the quality of the resulting services. It was unclear from the evidence we reviewed for our study, if and how children’s rights have been enacted in this respect. • Seeking to answer an abiding question of whether the closer integration of children’s health and social care comes at the expense of the relationship with education services. While gaps with mental health and disability services have been widely reported, in our study, the connection with education services – early learning and childcare, school education, educational psychology and learning support – very rarely came up as part of this integrated offer, aside from being a partner within local children’s services planning partnerships. The research has highlighted that integration is a complex and prolonged process and the multi-year timeframe that transformational reform programmes require for implementation. Undertaking research into the impacts of such reforms therefore needs to be carefully planned for. Moreover, research in this area needs to consider when the effects and impact of implementation might be seen, and how to attribute any potential impacts to the reforms, as opposed to other factors, such as periods of economic growth or recessions, or changes in government. Page 74 of 503
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34 This study has been able to consider the views and experiences of children, young people and parents where these have been shared to date, including their significant input into recent reviews in Scotland. It is imperative that any further research into children’s services and how these are designed to meet the needs of children, young people and families continues to review and seek what they say about their experiences, to ensure that the fullest picture can be understood. Lastly, a key contribution of this research to further study is that the innovative statistical methodological approach taken for this study in relation to how the relationship between integration and outcomes was investigated can be replicated in other contexts and settings. We have made the approach we used available, and, similarly, the details of our workforce survey, and the qualitative work which accompanied it. This provides an excellent baseline which can be utilised in the future to assess progress. Page 75 of 503
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35 References Audit Scotland (2018) Health and social care Integration: update on progress. Edinburgh: Audit Scotland. Available at: www.audit- scotland.gov.uk/uploads/docs/report/2018/nr_181115_health_socialcare_update.pdf Baxter, S., Johnson, M., Chambers, D., Sutton, A., Goyder, E., & Booth, A. (2018) ‘The effects of integrated care: a systematic review of UK and international evidence’. BMC health services research, 18(1), pp. 1-13. Brock, J. and Everingham, S. (2018) Integrated Children’s Services in Scotland: Practice and Leadership. An assessment of progress and improvement. Edinburgh: Social Work Scotland. Available at: https://childreninscotland.org.uk/wp- content/uploads/2018/06/Integrated-Children%E2%80%99s-Services-in-Scotland- Practice-and-Leadership.pdf Brown, K. and White, K. (2006) Exploring the Evidence Base for Integrated Children’s Services. Edinburgh: Scottish Executive Education Department. Available at: https://www.gov.scot/publications/exploring-evidence-base-integrated-childrens- services/ Bunting, L., Davidson, G., McCartan, C., Hanratty, J., Bywaters, P., Mason, W., & Steils, N. (2018) ‘The association between child maltreatment and adult poverty - A systematic review of longitudinal research’. Child Abuse & Neglect, 77, pp. 121–133. Bywaters, P., Brady, G., Sparks, T., and Bos, E. (2016) ‘Child welfare inequalities: new evidence, further questions’. Child & Family Social Work, 21, pp. 369–380. Bywaters, P., Skinner, G., Cooper, A., Kennedy, E., and Malik, A. (2022) The Relationship Between Poverty and Child Abuse and Neglect: New Evidence. Nuffield Foundation. Available at: www.nuffieldfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Full- report-relationship-between-poverty-child-abuse-and-neglect.pdf Cattan, S., Conti, G., Farquarson, C., Ginja, R. and Pecher, M. (2022) The health effects of universal early childhood interventions: Evidence from Sure Start. Working paper 22/43. London: Institute for Fiscal Studies. Christie, C. (2011) Christie Commission on the future delivery of public services. Edinburgh: Scottish Government. Available at: https://www.gov.scot/publications/commission-future-delivery-public-services/ COSLA/Scottish Government (2023) New Deal with Local Government – Verity House Agreement. Edinburgh: Scottish Government. Available at https://www.gov.scot/publications/new-deal-local-government-partnership-agreement/ Department for Education (2023) Statistics: Children in Need and Child Protection. Available at: https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/statistics-children-in-need Education and Training Inspectorate (2018) Sure Start Evaluation. Northern Ireland: Education and Training Inspectorate. Page 76 of 503
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36 Feeley, D. (2021) Independent Review of Adult Social Care in Scotland. Edinburgh: Scottish Government. Available at: www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/independent- report/2021/02/independent-review-adult-social-care-scotland/documents/independent- review-adult-care-scotland/independent-review-adult-care- scotland/govscot%3Adocument/independent-review-adult-care-scotland.pdf Ferguson, H., Warwick, L., Disney, T., Leigh, J., Cooner, T. S., & Beddoe, L. (2022) ‘Relationship-based practice and the creation of therapeutic change in long-term work: social work as a holding relationship’. Social Work Education, 41(2), pp. 209-227. Independent Care Review (2020a) The Promise. Available at: https://www.carereview.scot/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/The-Promise_v7.pdf Independent Care Review (2020b) Evidence Framework Feb 2017 – Feb 2020. Available at: https://www.carereview.scot/wp- content/uploads/2020/07/ICR_Evidence_Framework_v2-1.pdf Joseph Rowntree Foundation (2023) Poverty in Scotland. Edinburgh: Joseph Rowntree Foundation. Available here: https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/poverty-scotland-2023 National Care Service (Scotland) Bill (2022) Available at: https://www.parliament.scot/bills-and-laws/bills/national-care-service-scotland-bill Ruch, G., Turney, D., & Ward, A. (Eds). (2018) Relationship-based social work: Getting to the heart of practice. London: Jessica Kingsley. Ruch, G. (2020) Practising relationship-based social work: Knowledge Briefing. Totness, Devon: Research in Practice. Available here: https://practice-supervisors.rip.org.uk/wp- content/uploads/2020/01/KB-Practising-relationship-based-social-work.pdf Scottish Government (2012) A Guide to Getting It Right for Every Child. Edinburgh: Scottish Government. Available at: https://ihub.scot/media/1512/a-guide-to-getting-it- right-for-every-child.pdf Scottish Government (2018) Delivering for today, investing for tomorrow: the Government’s programme for Scotland 2018-2019. Edinburgh: Scottish Government. Scottish Government (2021a) National Care Service for Scotland - Consultation. Edinburgh: Scottish Government. Available at: www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/consultation- paper/2021/08/national-care-service-scotland-consultation2/documents/national-care- service-scotland-consultation/national-care-service-scotland- consultation/govscot%3Adocument/national-care-service-scotland-consultation.pdf Scottish Government (2021b) Children’s Social Work Statistics Data Consultation Findings. Edinburgh: Scottish Government. Available from: https://www.gov.scot/publications/childrens-social-work-statistics-data- consultationfindings/ Page 77 of 503
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37 Scottish Government (2022a) Getting It Right For Every Child (GIRFEC): Policy statement. Edinburgh: Scottish Government. Available here: https://www.gov.scot/publications/getting-right-child-girfec-policy-statement/pages/2/ Scottish Government (2022b) National Care Service: Statement of Benefits. Edinburgh: Scottish Government. Available at: https://www.gov.scot/publications/national-care- service-statement benefits/#:~:text=Sets%20out%20the%20benefits%20of,around%20its%20design%20 and%20delivery. Scottish Government (2022c) Improving Outcomes for Children, Young People and Families: Review of Children’s Services Plans (2020-2023) and Strategic Engagement Activity. Edinburgh: Scottish Government. Available at: https://www.gov.scot/publications/improving-outcomes-children-young-people-families- review-childrens-services-plans-2020-2023-strategic-engagement-activity/pages/19/ Scottish Government. (2022d) Looked After Children Data Collection. [Dataset]. Available at: https://statistics.gov.scot/data/looked-after-children The Promise (2023) The Promise Data Map. Available at: https://thepromise.scot/thepromise-scotland/what-the-promise-scotland-does/change- projects/data/map/ Trevithick, P. (2003) ‘Effective relationship-based practice: A theoretical exploration’. Journal of social work practice, 17(2), pp. 163-176. Turney, D. (2012) ‘A relationship-based approach to engaging involuntary clients: The contribution of recognition theory’. Child and Family Social Work, 17(2), pp. 149–159. UN General Assembly (1989) Convention on the Rights of the Child, United Nations, Treaty Series, vol. 1577, p. 3. Available at: https://www.refworld.org/docid/3ae6b38f0.html Walker, G. (2018) Working together for children: A critical introduction to multi-agency working. London: Bloomsbury Publishing. Page 78 of 503
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38 Appendix 1: Membership of the Independent Steering Group Name Position Professor Brigid Daniel (Chair) Professor Emerita; Queen Margaret University Professor Ruth Jepson Director of the Scottish Collaboration for Public Health Research and Policy; University of Edinburgh Professor Sandra Nutley Professor Emeritus; University of St Andrews Professor Barbara Fawcett Head of Department, Social Work and Social Policy; University of Strathclyde Dr Ruth Astbury Lecturer and Programme Leader, School of Health and Life Sciences; University of the West of Scotland Professor Lisa Bunting Professor, School of Social Science, Education and Social Work; Queen’s University Belfast Professor Leah Bromfield Chair of Child Protection and Director of the Australian Centre for Child Protection; University of South Australia Allister Short Service Director for Women’s and Children’s Services; NHS Lothian Barry McLeod Programme Manager, Public Service Improvement Framework; Improvement Service Professor Margaret O’Brien Professor of Child and Family Policy; Thomas Coram Research Unit, University College London Stephanie Crisp Improvement Lead; The Promise Scotland Claire RM Burns Insights Lead; The Promise Scotland The following people also contributed their expertise as members of the Independent Steering Group for a shorter period of time: Dr Helen Whincup Senior Lecturer in Social Work; University of Stirling Dr John O’Dowd Clinical Director; NHS Greater Glasgow Claire Stuart Head of Insights; The Promise Scotland Page 79 of 503
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39 About CELCIS CELCIS is a leading improvement and innovation centre in Scotland. We improve children’s lives by supporting people and organisations to drive long-lasting change in the services they need, and the practices used by people responsible for their care. For more information Visit: www.celcis.org Email: celcis@strath.ac.uk Tel: 0141 444 8500 Page 80 of 503
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Page 1 of 9 To: Education and Children’s Services Policy Board On: 23 May 2024 ___________________________________________________________________ Report by: Director of Children’s Services ___________________________________________________________________ Heading: Joint inspection of services for children at risk of harm in Renfrewshire ___________________________________________________________________ 1. Summary 1.1 As part of a rolling programme of improvement work, the Care Inspectorate lead joint inspections of services for children and young people at risk of harm. The remit of these joint inspections is to consider the effectiveness of services for children and young people up to the age of 18 at risk of harm. The legislative basis for the inspection is Section 115 of part 8 of the Public Services Reform (Scotland) Act 2010. 1.2 In addition to the Care Inspectorate the joint inspection team includes representatives from Healthcare Improvement Scotland (HIS), Education Scotland and His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland (HMICS) and volunteer Young Inspectors. 1.3 The inspections look at the difference community planning partnerships are making to the lives of children and young people at risk of harm and their families. They take account of the full range of work including services provided by social workers, teachers, health visitors, police officers and the third sector. 1.4 The Care Inspectorate has commenced the inspection process for Renfrewshire and this report provides members with information on the background to inspection, details key phases of the inspection and confirms the local governance arrangements locally. ___________________________________________________________________ 2. Recommendations 2.1 It is recommended that the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board note the following: [a] the joint inspection of services for children at risk of harm in Renfrewshire has been confirmed by the Care Inspectorate; Item 6 Page 81 of 503
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Page 2 of 9 (b) the scrutiny activity starts with a staff survey on 13 May 2024, continues with file reading on 17 June and then engagement with children, young people and families on 19 August 2024; and (c) the Strategic Manager Children and Justice/Depute Chief Social Work Officer will be the Renfrewshire inspection co-ordinator and the Children’s and Justice Services Manager (Assurance and Change) will be the depute inspection co-ordinator. ___________________________________________________________________ 3. Background 3.1 The Care Inspectorate, at the request of Scottish Ministers, lead joint inspections of services for children and young people at risk of harm. The remit of these joint inspections is to consider the effectiveness of services for children and young people up to the age of 18 at risk of harm. The legislative basis for the inspection is Section 115 of part 8 of the Public Services Reform (Scotland) Act 2010. 3.2 In addition to the Care Inspectorate the joint inspection team includes representatives from Healthcare Improvement Scotland (HIS), Education Scotland and His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland (HMICS) and volunteer Young Inspectors. 3.3 The inspections look at the difference community planning partnerships are making to the lives of children and young people at risk of harm and their families. They take account of the full range of work including services provided by social workers, teachers, health visitors, police officers and the third sector. 3.4 Children at risk of harm are defined as children up to the age of 18 years who need urgent support due to being at risk of harm from abuse and/or neglect. This includes children who need urgent support due to being a significant risk to themselves and/or others or are at significant risk in the community. The Care Inspectorate identify young people as children aged 13 to 17 years old. 3.5 Joint inspections aim to provide assurance on the extent to which services, working together, can demonstrate the following: • Children and young people are safer because risk have been identified and responded to effectively. • Children and young people’s lives improve with high-quality planning and support, ensuring they experience sustained loving and nurturing relationships to keep them safe from further harm. • Children and young people and families are meaningfully and appropriately in decisions about their lives. They influence service, planning, delivery, and improvement. Page 82 of 503
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Page 3 of 9 • Collaborative strategic leadership, planning and operational management ensure high standards of service delivery. 3.6 The Care Inspectorate will look at the cases of 60 children and young people in Renfrewshire who in the two years prior to the 8 April 2024 have been involved in the processes below: • 15 children or young people who have been subject to an Initial Referral Discussion (IRD), Child Protection Investigation or Child Protection Planning Meeting but has not led to their name being placed on the Child Protection Register. • 30 children or young people whose names have been placed on the Child Protection Register. • 15 young people who have been subject to the Vulnerable Young Person’s process or Care and Risk Management Procedures (CARM). 3.7 A staff survey, a children and young people’s survey and a parent and carers’ survey will be undertaken. A position statement will also be provided, the content of which will be informed by the pre-inspection return and initial findings. 3.8 All information from the file reading, surveys and position statement will be triangulated through focus groups with staff and meetings with parents, carers, and young people. 3.9 There will be focus groups held for frontline staff, managers, and strategic leaders. The inspectors will also meet with Renfrewshire Children’s Services Partnership (RCSP), Renfrewshire Child Protection Committee (RCPC) and Renfrewshire Public Protection Chief Officers Group. 3.10 The inspection will be completed within 22 weeks and the process and timings are set out below: 3.11 The lead inspector for this inspection has been identified as Sharon Telfer. Sharon will lead a team from the various inspection and scrutiny agencies and will be supported by local file readers for that activity. Page 83 of 503
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Page 4 of 9 4. Key dates for inspection in Renfrewshire 4.1 The inspection has two sets of key dates, the first associated with scrutiny activity and the second meetings between the Care Inspectorate and the leadership team in Renfrewshire. 4.2 The key dates for scrutiny and the area of scrutiny are: • Monday 13 May to Friday 31 May 2024 – staff survey • Monday 17 June to Friday 21 June 2024 – file reading • Week commencing Monday 19 August 2024 – engagement with children and young people, families, and partnership staff. 4.3 The engagement with children, young people and families is set for the week that schools return from the summer break. There is a child and family survey which will require to be completed and the inspection co-ordinator will work with the lead inspector to ensure this is completed to ensure maximum participation by negotiating when the survey is issued. 4.4 The Care Inspectorate has set two dates for meetings with the partnership and provided a date for the third meeting with the time to be confirmed. The following dates should be noted as participation in these meetings if possible by the Chief Officers would be considered in the interests of the inspection process: • Tuesday 14 May 2024 – 11.00am to 12.45pm • Thursday 4 July 2024 – 11.00am to 1.00pm • Wednesday 18 September 2024 (time to be confirmed). 5. Local governance arrangements 5.1 Each local area is required to identify an inspection co-ordinator at a sufficiently senior officer level to link with the Care Inspectorate. The Strategic Manager Children and Justice/Depute Chief Social Work Officer will be the Renfrewshire inspection co-ordinator and the Children’s and Justice Services Manager (Assurance and Change) will be the depute inspection co- ordinator. 5.2 Each agency will already have been asked to identify a senior officer to support in the work to ensure that Renfrewshire is able to demonstrate the quality of services to protect children at risk of harm. A regular planning/preparation group has been established to ensure we respond as best we can to the inspection. The planning/preparation group will co- ordinate communication in relation to the inspection process. 5.3 Renfrewshire Child Protection Committee (RCPC) oversees the multi-agency protection of children locally. Elected members will recall from their training that RCPC has membership from the local authority, NHS, Police Scotland, Page 84 of 503
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Page 5 of 9 the third sector and Scottish Fire and Rescue. RCPC has an independent Chairperson and reports to the Chief Officer Group. The Chief Officer Group consists of the Chief Executive of the Council, the Police Scotland Divisional Commander and the Director of Nursing from NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde. Elected members are updated on the work of RCPC and the Chief Officer Group via the Member Officer Group. 5.4 Appendix 1 to this report details the individual areas which will be considered by the Care Inspectorate and their joint inspection agencies. Appendix 2 details the grading utilised by the Joint Inspection Team. ________________________________________________________________ Implications of this report 1. Financial None. 2. HR and Organisational Development None. 3. Community/Council Planning None. 4. Legal Local authorities and all community planning partners have a responsibility to protect children from harm. The inspection is undertaken in line with Section 115 of part 8 of the Public Services Reform (Scotland) Act 2010. 5. Property/Assets None. 6. Information Technology None. 7. Equality and Human Rights The Recommendations contained within this report have been assessed in relation to their impact on equalities and human rights. No negative impacts on equality groups or potential for infringement of individuals’ human rights have been identified arising from the recommendations contained in the report. 8. Health and Safety None 9. Procurement Page 85 of 503
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Page 6 of 9 None. 10. Risk There are no specific risks identified in this report. Risk to children are identified and mitigated on a child protection planning basis. 11. Privacy Impact None. 12. Cosla Policy Position None. 13. Climate Risk None. List of Background Papers ___________________________________________________________________ Children’s Services JT/KO 16042024 Author: John Trainer, Head of Child Care and Justice Social Work 0300 300 0277 john.trainer@renfrewshire.gov.uk Page 86 of 503
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Page 7 of 9 Appendix 1 2. The quality indicators What key outcomes have we achieved? How well do we meet the needs of our stakeholders? How good is our delivery of services for children, young people and families? How good is our operational management? How good is our leadership? 1. Key performance outcomes 2. Impact on children, young people and families 5. Delivery of key processes 6. Policy, service development and legal measures 9. Leadership and direction 1.1 Improvements in the safety, wellbeing and life chances of vulnerable children and young people. 2.1 Impact on children and young people. 2.2 Impact on families. 5.1 Recognition and response to initial concerns. 5.2 Assessing risk and need. 5.3 Care planning, managing risk and effective intervention. 5.4 Involving individual children, young people and families. 6.1 Policies, procedures and legal measures. 6.2 Planning and improving services. 6.3 Participation of children, young people, families and other stakeholders. 6.4 Performance management and quality assurance. 6.5 Securing improvement through self-evaluation 9.1 Vision, values and aims. 9.2 Leadership of strategy and direction. 9.3 Leadership of people and partnerships. 9.4 Leadership of improvement and change. 3. Impact on staff 7. Management and support to staff 3.1 Impact on staff 7.1 Recruitment, deployment and joint working. 7.2 Workforce development and support. 4. Impact on the community 8. Resources and capacity building 4.1 Impact on the community 8.1 Management of resources. 8.2 Commissioning arrangements. 10: What is our capacity for improvement? Global judgement based on an evaluation of the framework of quality indicators Page 87 of 503
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Page 8 of 9 Appendix 2 Care Inspectorate Six-point Evaluation Scale The Care Inspectorate use the following six-point evaluation scale. 6 Excellent - Outstanding or sector leading 5 Very Good - Major strengths 4 Good - Important strengths, with some areas for improvement 3 Adequate - Strengths just outweigh weaknesses 2 Weak - Important weaknesses – priority action required 1 Unsatisfactory - Major weaknesses – urgent remedial action required An evaluation of excellent describes performance which is sector leading and supports experiences and outcomes for people which are of outstandingly high quality. There is a demonstrable track record of innovative, effective practice and/or very high-quality performance across a wide range of its activities and from which others could learn. The Care Inspectorate can be confident that excellent performance is sustainable and that it will be maintained. An evaluation of very good will apply to performance that demonstrates major strengths in supporting positive outcomes for people. There are very few areas for improvement. Those that do exist will have minimal adverse impact on people’s experiences and outcomes. While opportunities are taken to strive for excellence within a culture of continuous improvement, performance evaluated as very good does not require significant adjustment. An evaluation of good applies to performance where there is a number of important strengths that, taken together, clearly outweigh areas for improvement. The strengths will have a significant positive impact on people’s experiences and outcomes. However, improvements are required to maximise wellbeing and ensure that people consistently have experiences and outcomes which are as positive as possible. An evaluation of adequate applies where there are some strengths, but these just outweigh weaknesses. Strengths may still have a positive impact but the likelihood of achieving positive experiences and outcomes for people is reduced significantly because key areas of performance need to improve. Performance that is evaluated as adequate may be tolerable in particular circumstances, such as where a service or partnership is not yet fully established, or in the midst of major transition. However, continued performance at adequate level is not acceptable. Improvements must be made by building on strengths while addressing those elements that are not contributing to positive experiences and outcomes for people. An evaluation of weak will apply to performance in which strengths can be identified but these are outweighed or compromised by significant weaknesses. The weaknesses, either individually or when added together, substantially affect peoples’ experiences or outcomes. Without improvement as a matter of priority, the welfare or safety of people may be compromised, or their critical needs not met. Weak performance requires action in the form of structured and planned improvement by the provider or partnership with a mechanism to demonstrate clearly that sustainable improvements have been made. Page 88 of 503
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Page 9 of 9 An evaluation of unsatisfactory will apply when there are major weaknesses in critical aspects of performance which require immediate remedial action to improve experiences and outcomes for people. It is likely that people’s welfare or safety will be compromised by risks which cannot be tolerated. Those accountable for carrying out the necessary actions for improvement must do so as a matter of urgency, to ensure that people are protected, and their wellbeing improves without delay Page 89 of 503
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Page 1 of 8 To: Education and Children’s Services Policy Board On: 23 May 2024 ___________________________________________________________________ Report by: Director of Children’s Services ___________________________________________________________________ Heading: Inclusion Update ___________________________________________________________________ 1. Summary 1.1 In August 2023, the Staged Intervention Framework and associated processes and plans were launched. This was following the GIRFEC Refresh which focused on bringing about improvements to support the wellbeing and learning of all our children and young people with additional support needs in mainstream school and early years establishments. 1.2 Our Inclusion Portfolio has a CLEAR mission. By working collaboratively, we will, C Improve communication and collaboration ensuring the rights of the child are front and centre L Meet the wellbeing & learning needs of all our children & young people E Ensure we provide excellent Children’s Services support services using a robust quality improvement framework A Invest in & develop all our people to improve outcomes for children R Manage our resources effectively & equitably as close to the child as possible 1.3 The purpose of this paper is to update members on some of the main areas of progress since August 2023. ___________________________________________________________________ 2. Recommendations 2.1 Members of the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board are asked to note the very positive progress the Inclusion Portfolio continues to make to improve outcomes for children and young people. ___________________________________________________________________ Item 7 Page 90 of 503
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Page 2 of 8 3. Background 3.1 Staged Intervention Framework Since August 2023 we have continued to take forward the work of the GIRFEC Refresh and have now fully implemented the Staged Intervention Framework across all establishments in Renfrewshire. This includes early years classes and centres, funded providers, primary, secondary, and additional support needs schools. This framework makes clear that an inclusive approach to education supports an ethos of achievement and high expectation, recognises and respects diversity and sees differences between learners as opportunities for learning through a staged intervention approach. Staged Intervention is a framework that enables agencies to provide the most appropriate and least intrusive assessment, planning and support for any child or young person with wellbeing needs, including those with additional support needs. This framework ensures clear guidelines and a consistent approach to planning interventions to support children and young people with additional support needs. 3.2 Transition Policy The revised Transition of Children with Additional Support Needs Policy Part 1 was approved by the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board on 14 March 2024. This is a positive step to ensure consistent approaches to transition for all children and young people with additional support needs. 3.3 ADES Collaborative Renfrewshire’s Children’s Services undertook Collaborative Improvement (CI) activity with representatives from Education Scotland and other local authorities from across Scotland in June 2023. The focus of this was on the recent work that has been undertaken to improve how we meet the needs of our children and young people with Additional Support Needs (ASN). We were delighted when the following strengths were identified: • The vision for inclusion was clear and well understood across agencies and within Education, in all the activities, practitioners demonstrated a clear understanding of what and how they would reach their ambition. • The local authority has demonstrated an empowered approach to building capacity within their educational estate by drawing on peer-led and motivated “early adopters” to shape improvements. • The local authority is making very effective use of relevant data sets to measure performance and impact. • The direction of travel in relation to the flexible learning resources is in line with national and international thinking. • Renfrewshire Nurturing Relationship Approaches (RNRA) is well understood across services/agencies and practitioners. There were clear examples of partnership working/multi-agency working. Page 91 of 503
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Page 3 of 8 3.4 Universal Approaches to Inclusion We continue to work tirelessly to develop and upskill our workforce. We continue to focus on embedding the following universal approaches; Renfrewshire’s Nurturing Relationship Approaches (RNRA) All Renfrewshire schools are now participating in RNRA. Its universal approaches are underpinned by the vision and values of our Renfrewshire’s Nurturing Relationship Approaches (RNRA) which also permeates our Promoting Positive Relationships Policy. Renfrewshire recognises that good teaching and learning begin with positive relationships. Relationships fulfil our most fundamental needs as humans – social connectedness. A nurturing approach recognises that positive relationships are central to both learning and wellbeing. Nurture is underpinned by six guiding principles and there is an expectation, through working with the Educational Psychology team that these will be understood by all and fully embedded in practice across all our schools and Early Learning & Childcare settings. • Children's learning is understood developmentally. • The classroom offers a safe base. • The importance of nurture for the development of wellbeing • Language is a vital means of communication. • All behaviour is communication. • The importance of transition in children's lives The CIRCLE Framework Almost all establishment are not trained in CIRCLE an Education Scotland resource which aims to empower education staff to support all pupils, to promote inclusive practice and to encourage effective collaboration between school staff, parents/carers, partner services and other agencies. This resource focuses on 4 key areas • Skills, • Motivation, • Structures and Routines, • and Environment Evaluating these four key areas using the CIRCLE resource will empower the practitioner to better meet the needs of all learners within their classroom and complements our authority-wide commitment to RNRA. For example, CIRCLE’s Inclusive Classroom Scale, can be used at classroom and whole school level to review, reflect on and develop a positive learning environment for all. Page 92 of 503
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Page 4 of 8 These inclusive practices support all staff within education to develop positive, respectful relationships with children and young people and take account of the needs of individuals whilst planning for all. Renfrewshire’s Inclusive Classroom Environment (RICE) A significant number of children have speech, language and communication needs (SLCN), but they fall into two groups. It is estimated that around 10% of all children have a long-term persistent SLCN, whereas upwards of 50% of children on school entry have more transient difficulties and, with the right support, are likely to develop age-appropriate skills. Around 7% of children in the UK have specific speech and language difficulties - others have SLCN as part of more generalised difficulties or another condition e.g. Autism. RICE is a partnership approach with Speech and Language Therapy which supports establishments to develop small tests of change in their environment to support children and young people with communication needs. Training is based on active, engaged learning and allows practitioners to apply skills between sessions. There is also a specific focus on children with need who are entering primary 1 and to support an inclusive approach, the RICE team are working with the receiving teachers. RICE can also be used as a whole establishment approach. Whole school training and support & development groups show an increase in practitioners confidence when supporting children with speech, language and communication needs. 3.5 Supporting Attendance Supporting attendance continues to be a priority and we have introduced/improved the following interventions; Emotionally Based School Avoidance (EBSA) This was launched in August 2023. Emotionally based school avoidance is both a strategic support and a school based support for young people and their families to access school. Nationally, attendance has dropped post pandemic due to mental health issues and is often related to poverty and additional support needs. We know in Renfrewshire that when schools plan individually for young people and put in supports as well as provide key relationships and a nurturing approach, that this raises the attendance rate for the most vulnerable. There are also support and development groups for EBSA. This a community approach using the expertise of a range of services including CAMHS, Social Work, Eps and RAMH (which support adult mental health). Locality Support Network (LSN) This is a well-established platform that enables practitioners to discuss individual children and young people in their localities alongside colleagues from neighbouring schools, Educational Psychology and specialist support services. This can include discussions regarding interventions to support with attendance. Page 93 of 503
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Page 5 of 8 Whole Family Wellbeing Fund (WFWF) The WFWF consists of 3 separate elements: Community Family Wellbeing Team (previously Families First) The staff supporting the community front door will work on a locality basis and receive referrals for families who live in that locality. They will work towards a family hub model, where a range of services, groups and supports will be available to parents in the one place by bringing a range of services together. This will be started by running parent drop ins and will be built on as the service develops. The Community Family Wellbeing Team will link closely with early years establishments and the third sector. They will work on a locality basis and teams will provide support across the following localities: • Johnstone/Linwood/Villages • Renfrew/Erskine/Bishopton/Gallowhill • Paisley (excepting Gallowhill) Schools Family Wellbeing Team The staff supporting the schools front door will work on a locality basis and link directly with schools in that locality. They will work on a referral basis with families at stage 2 of the staged intervention process who require an assessed family wellbeing service and intervention which will support attendance and attainment by dealing with family stress. The localities will be based around school clusters and will mirror the same localities as the Community Family Wellbeing Team. Interrupted Learners Wellbeing Team This team will work with children and young people who experience discontinuity in their education and where intensive family support is required to enable the family and young person to re-engage in learning and a positive pathway. The team will take referrals from the Education Support and Resource Group (ESRG) Non- Violent Resistance (NVR) NVR is also being used to support the attendance of young people with distressed behaviour, often in relation to significant additional support needs. Parental support to return young people to schools is being accessed via NVR parent groups. 3.6 Parent/Carer Complaints Since the introduction of the Staged Intervention Framework in August 2023 there has been a noticeable decline in the number of parental complaints received in relation to meeting children and young peoples (CYP) needs from August 2022 to March 2024. 3.7 Parent Ambassador Group Our Parent Ambassador Group continues to grow and has become a well Page 94 of 503
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Page 6 of 8 established network of parents and carers with children and young people with ASN. This group has become an integral part of policy shaping and quality assurance of the GIRFEC Refresh. Following request from parents, the Parent Ambassador group received a session from Craig McFadyen, Education Advisor to CAMHS. Education Manger, Susan Bell also presented to the group with regards to the Whole Family Wellbeing team and the group provided feedback on community and family supports. 3.8 Next Steps Through partnership with other third sector services and our schools and early years establishments, we will continue to collate and create a suite of interventions to ensure children and families are supported appropriately and which are allocated equitably through our recently launched Request for Assistance mechanism. We will continue to provide bespoke professional learning, as required, to support the development of the staged intervention framework. We have also developed training for our Additional Support Needs Assistants and Classroom Assistants which focuses on their role in supporting children and young people with additional support needs. This learning has been shaped by the workforce through the results of an audit which asked them to identify their training needs. Further universal learning sessions are planned and bespoke work will be provided, as requested. 3.9 Policy Updating key policies in relation to Additional Support Needs continues to be a priority. Ensuring clear guidance and systems are in place across all establishments will promote more consistent approaches. Next term, we aim to launch our updated Inclusion Position Statement, Violence and Aggression Policy and Promoting Positive Relationships Policy. We have introduced an additional support needs quality assurance framework that is currently being piloted through our triage system with our Education Officers. We will continue to develop this to ensure shared language, consistency and quality of plans across all establishments in Renfrewshire. 3.10 Conclusion In summary, there continues to be a significant amount of development work being undertaken, with significant progress being made within this portfolio and there are strong plans in place to continue to ensure that our provision for children and young people with additional support needs is fair and equitable and that resources are deployed as close the child as possible. ________________________________________________________________ Implications of this report 1. Financial No financial implications Page 95 of 503
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Page 7 of 8 2. HR and Organisational Development No implications for HR and Organisational Development 3. Community/Council Planning Our Renfrewshire is thriving - Ensuring the best support for all children and young people Our Renfrewshire is well - Early intervention will lead to healthier outcomes for children and young people. Our Renfrewshire is safe - Local services/establishments will support children, young people and members of the community. Building strong, safe and resilient communities - The quality of community life is enhanced by supporting children and young people. Tackling inequality, ensuring opportunities for all - Effective governance arrangements ensure that the organisations can deliver effective and equitable support for children and young people Creating a sustainable Renfrewshire for all to enjoy - Effective support arrangements will contribute to a quality education for children and young people 4. Legal No Legal implications 5. Property/Assets No implications for property/assets 6. Information Technology No implications for Information Technology 7. Equality and Human Rights No negative impacts on equality groups or potential for infringement of individuals’ human rights have been identified arising from the recommendations contained in the report. If required, the actual impact of the recommendations and the mitigating actions will be reviewed and monitored, and the results of the assessment will be published on the Council’s website. 8. Health and Safety No implications 9. Procurement No implications for procurement 10. Risk Page 96 of 503
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Page 8 of 8 No risks 11. Privacy Impact Personal information will only be held as required to deliver the service. This will be done in accordance with data protection legislation. 12. 13. COSLA Policy Position None Climate Risk None List of Background Papers Getting it right for every child (GIRFEC) The Promise Scotland United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child Support for Learning: All our Children and all their Potential ___________________________________________________________________ Children’s Services EH/KO190424 Author: Emma Henry, Interim Head of Education Page 97 of 503
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1 ___________________________________________________________________ To: Education and Children’s Services Policy Board On: 23 May 2024 ___________________________________________________________________ Report by: Director of Children’s Services ___________________________________________________________________ Heading: Children’s Services Service Improvement Plan 2023/24 Outturn Report ___________________________________________________________________ 1. Summary 1.1. The purpose of this report is to provide an update on performance of Children’s Services for the twelve-month period covering 1 April 2023 to 31 March 2024 in relation to the Service Improvement Plan approved by this Board in May 2023. 1.2. The plan aligns with the Council Plan and Community Plan, and provides the strategic direction for the service. The service is an active partner in developing and delivering the outcomes contained within both the Renfrewshire Children’s Services Partnership Plan and the Renfrewshire Community Justice Outcomes Improvement Plan. 1.3. Children’s Services has delivered on its priorities over the last twelve months and service updates and key achievements are highlighted in Section 4 of this report. __________________________________________________________________ 2. Recommendations 2.1. It is recommended that the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board note: a) the contents of this report; and b) the achievements of Children’s Services during 2023/24. ___________________________________________________________________ Item 8 Page 98 of 503
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2 3. Background 3.1. Children’s Services is responsible for the delivery of social work services to children and families, justice social work services, and early years, primary and secondary education. Much of what the service does is statutory; that is, there is a legal requirement for the Council to deliver. Service delivery is a mix of universal provision (such as education), targeted provision (such as children’s houses for accommodated children and young people) and specialist support (for example, justice social work court services). 3.2. Our approach is strongly focused on prevention, early intervention and providing additional support for the most vulnerable. Whilst children’s health services sit within Renfrewshire’s Health and Social Care Partnership (HSCP), a key priority of both organisations is the continuation of effective integrated working to improve outcomes for children and young people. 3.3. The Service Improvement Plan is a comprehensive statement of the outcomes the service aims to achieve, and the actions it will take to achieve these. It fits within the wider planning framework of the Council by taking account of Community Planning themes and Council priorities. It enables elected members to have oversight of developments within the service and to consider and develop policy options which reflect customer need and resource availability. 3.4. Appendix I details the service’s achievements in the past 12 months as we continue to support the Council’s priorities and help deliver improved outcomes for Renfrewshire children, young people, and families. ___________________________________________________________________ 4. Service Update and Key Achievements 4.1. The re-design of social work services has accelerated during 2023/24, with an aim to improve the capability and capacity within the service to drive change forward. This will be supported by reducing reactive ‘firefighting’ and increase the resilience in the management structure. The service is determined to provide the right support at the right time and minimise the demand on the most expensive types of care placements. 4.2. The re-design, which has incorporated Families First, Home Link and Care Experienced Home Link into the Renfrewshire Family Wellbeing Service, has streamlined the way that family support is accessed and provided to ensure consistency and equity across localities. Progress continues to be made to develop Renfrewshire’s approach to early and effective whole family support measures. The aim of the Family Wellbeing approach is to provide appropriate family supports focussing on early intervention, and providing opportunities for children, young people, parents, and carers to shape the services that impact Page 99 of 503
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3 them. Local insight has presented a strong case that children and young people’s needs are best understood and met within the context of their families. 4.3. Through the Scottish Government’s Whole Family Wellbeing Fund, Children’s Services is engaging with partners to develop collaborative proposals to address the needs of Renfrewshire’s families in a way that is non-stigmatising, community-based, and underpinned by children’s rights. There is recognition of the benefit to have services linked and access to support being in one place. Positive learning from the successful implementation of the REN10 mental health and wellbeing family support service is also being applied to the whole family wellbeing approach. 4.4. Family support continues to be readily available to families that need it. We want to make sure that families are able to access the help they need, where and when they need it. Holistic support should address the needs of children and adults in a family at the time of need rather than at crisis point. The service has established links with the neighbourhood locality model, and assists families who require support with parenting and behaviour. 4.5. Opportunities to incorporate The Promise in service planning and delivery is being facilitated though the active and growing Promise Keeper network. There are currently 266 Promise Keepers in place across the local authority – both staff and elected members – the HSCP, and partner agencies. This network ensures recognition is given to the needs and voices of individuals with care experience. A High-Level Summary of Renfrewshire’s Progress Report to Keep The Promise (#KeepThePromise) has been produced outlining activity across Childrens Services, the Council, HSCP and the wider partnership. This report was shared with the Promise Oversight Group, Chief Executive, Community Planning Partnership Executive Group, Promise Scotland and COSLA. This report described Promise related activity in Renfrewshire, across a number of areas, including Education, Social Work, Whole Family Wellbeing, Employability, Mental Health, Youth Justice, Family Support, Workforce, Children’s Hearings, GIRFEC, UNCRC, Brothers & Sisters, Police, Fire & Rescue Service and Health. The Promise and its activity is aligned with significant policy areas across the work of Childrens Services and the Council. 4.6. In collaboration with Health partners, the West Partnership, and the voluntary sector, we continue to develop consistent, effective and preventative approaches to support recovery, and improve the mental, social, and emotional wellbeing of children and young people. A comprehensive programme for professional learning is in place, covering a wide range of health and wellbeing topics delivered at local authority level and across the West Partnership. Page 100 of 503
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4 4.7. Work continues in partnership with Skills Development Scotland, West College Scotland, Invest in Renfrewshire, and Developing the Young Workforce West to ensure that planned, robust approaches are in place to support the most vulnerable learners into positive destinations. Employers are continuing to provide excellent opportunities for our young people, such as site visits, training, and long-term work placements for young people in the senior phase. 4.8. During 2023/24 to date, our inspected schools and early learning centres have all received positive reports from Education Scotland. The learning establishments with inspection reports published in this academic year were St Mary's Primary School, Bishopton Primary School, St Margaret's Primary School and ELC, and Brediland Primary School. Children’s Services both celebrate the key strengths identified at inspection, and recognise the areas for further improvement, providing support to the schools in their improvement journey. ___________________________________________________________________ 5. Progress against Performance Measures 5.1. Children’s Service’s performance indicators which fall under the remit of this policy board are detailed in Appendix I of this report. Of these, 14 are collected quarterly over a fiscal year (1 April to 31 March) and 19 are annual indicators measured over an academic year (1 August to 31 July). 5.2. Renfrewshire continues to perform well against its comparators across the majority of attainment measures. While we have not seen significant improvement from the previous leavers cohort this is replicated in national trends suggesting this is in part due to challenges comparing different assessment models undertaken during the Covid-19 pandemic. However, we recognise the scope for further improvement, particularly in relation to reducing the poverty related attainment gap. We will continue to make this a priority as we strive for even further improvement. 5.3. The number of young people entering a positive destination after leaving school has maintained strong performance with approximately 96% of the 2023 leavers cohort entering a positive destination, exceeding the target of 95%. The percentage of school leavers attaining literacy and numeracy at SCQF Level 4 has remained at 96% and 93% respectively. In comparison, there has been a drop of 2 percentage-points in the proportion of school leavers achieving literacy and numeracy at SCQF Level 5. 5.4. The service has continued to exceed its target for ensuring that children looked after by the Council are cared for in a community setting, with 91% of children cared for in this way at the end of the reporting period. On occasion, Page 101 of 503
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5 the needs of children and young people might require them to be placed in other settings better aligned to their current needs. 5.5. The percentage of Stage 1 complaints responded to within timescales agreed with customers has exceeded the target of 95%, with all complaints during the reporting period met within the agreed timescale with customers in Q4 of 2023/24. This is in comparison to 75% of Stage 1 complaints responded to within agreed timescales in Q4 of 2021/22 and 97% in Q4 of 2022/23. This highlights the efforts of the service to improve performance in this area. 5.6. The percentage of Stage 2 complaints responded to within timescales agreed with customers has shown considerable improvement compared to Q4 of 2022/23 where only 67% of complaints were responded to within timescale. The Q4 2023/24 figure shows 91% of complaints were responded to within timescale; while this remains below the target of 95%, the service will continue efforts to improve on this area of performance. 5.7. In all cases, the service will always focus on responding to complaints comprehensively. On occasion this may require staff to liaise closely with the complainant to fully understand the scope of the issue and thereafter identify all pertinent information. Complainants are always kept fully informed of timescales and anything that might impact them, for example managing responses that will be impacted by school holidays. ___________________________________________________________________ 6. Areas requiring improvement and/or review 6.1. Justice social work case management transitioned to ECLIPSE in August 2023. As such, we have been unable to report on justice-related indicators since the first quarter of the reporting year. At this time, a number of justice- related indicators were reported as below target. This was due in part to the ongoing changes in court activity which had disrupted justice service processes, resulting in challenging tight timescales for initial activity on orders. Justice activity also continued to be negatively impacted by accommodation issues. Work is ongoing to develop reporting functionality. 6.2. The attainment gap between pupils living in the 30% most deprived against those living in the 70% least deprived, in terms of the proportion of pupils achieving the expected levels in literacy for their school stage, increased between 2021/22 and 2022/23. There has also been an increase in the literacy and numeracy attainment gap when comparing pupils entitled to free school meals. However, due to the expansion of universal entitlement to latter primary stages these figures are not directly comparable to previous years. 6.3. During 2022/23, 14 young people from Renfrewshire schools began Foundation Apprenticeships, compared to 55 in 2021/22. More frameworks had been established in the area, but had to be cancelled due to no uptake. Page 102 of 503
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6 This year, the curriculum has been enhanced to include a wider range of new courses, and creates additional opportunities for young people. Children’s Services will continue to work with West College Scotland to provide attractive options for young people and intend to grow this number year after year as part of the wider goal of positive post-school destinations for all young people. 6.4. The proportion of young people choosing to stay on to S5 and S6, based on S4 roll figures, has decreased for a second consecutive year. The percentage of the S5 roll from the 2023/24 census is 87.8% of the previous year’s S4 roll, against a target of 92%. Education for the senior phase has a strong focus on personal development and employability skills as well as on academic attainment, and support is offered to ensure positive post-school positive destinations for all. 6.5. The percentage of care leavers that have had a period of homelessness in the six months prior to 31 March 2024 was 6%, representing 7 individuals. We measure performance against an ambitious target that no care leaver experiences a period of homelessness, and this continues to be an area requiring improvement to meet that target. ___________________________________________________________________ 7. Monitoring progress 7.1 We will apply our robust approach to quality improvement across our portfolios to ensure our practice and provision is driven by the experience of our service users. Established processes are in place to ensure our service priorities are underpinned by appropriate and accessible policy guidance, practice standards and training/development opportunities. Data and insight aligned to our outcomes will undergo thorough analysis and evaluation, with outputs shaping how we adapt, respond and best effect improvement over time. 7.2 Progress on the implementation of the Service Improvement Plan is monitored by the Extended Senior Leadership Team every quarter and will be reported to the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board on a six-monthly basis. ___________________________________________________________________ Implications of the Report 1. Financial – The Service Improvement Plan highlights resourcing pressures arising from increasing demand for services and the current financial environment. 2. HR & Organisational Development – None. 3. Community/Council Planning – The report details a range of activities which reflect local council and community planning themes. Page 103 of 503
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7 4. Legal – None. 5. Property/Assets – None. 6. Information Technology – Service developments relating to information technology are key enablers of service improvement and modernisation and support service-level and corporate objectives. 7. Equality & Human Rights – The recommendations contained within this report have been assessed in relation to their impact on equalities and human rights. No negative impacts on equality groups or potential for infringement of individuals’ human rights have been identified, arising from the recommendations contained in the report. If required following implementation, the actual impact of the recommendations and the mitigating actions will be reviewed and monitored, and the results of the assessment will be published on the Council’s website. 8. Health & Safety – None. 9. Procurement – None. 10. Risk – Risks related to the delivery and management of services are regularly monitored and included in Renfrewshire Council’s Corporate and Strategic Risk Registers. 11. Privacy Impact – None. 12. COSLA Policy Position – None. 13. Climate change – Actions and performance indicators aligned to Strategic Priority 4: Green, of Renfrewshire’s Council Plan, highlights activities across the Council to tackle climate change. __________________________________________________________________ List of Background Papers: (a) Service Improvement Plan 2023 - 2026 ___________________________________________________________________ Author: Alasdair Mann, Policy Officer (People) Contact: Yvonne Farquhar, Policy Manager (People) Appendix I: Children’s Services Service Improvement Plan 2023/24 Outturn Report ___________________________________________________________________ Page 104 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Children’s Services Service Improvement Plan 2023 – 26 2023/24 Outturn Report Page 105 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Welcome to our end of year report • This update reflects the performance of Children’s Services across the 2023/24 period, highlighting areas where we have made progress and some areas we want to focus on more in future, perhaps because performance isn’t moving in the direction we anticipated or because of other pressures or factors that makes this even more of a priority for us. • The following pages shine a spotlight on some great projects or practice and highlight areas where we want to improve or develop further. At a service level, there is a stronger focus on the Strategic Outcomes of the Council Plan that are closely aligned with Children’s Services. Towards the end of this document, you will find a full update against all the actions and performance indicators we use to measure progress. • Through our Service Improvement Plan, we report on 33 performance indicators, 19 which are reported annually and 14 reported quarterly. Some annual indicators are based on data that is one- year behind, owing to having no more recent comparable information. This will be updated as comprehensive data becomes available through subsequent data collections. Page 106 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan Place: As part of the corporate roll- out of Wi-Fi, installation across the learning estate is complete in Secondary schools, and it is expected that work will conclude in Primary schools and Early Learning establishments by June 2024. Economy: Working in partnership with Invest in Renfrewshire, Skills Development Scotland, and West College Scotland, there are now Developing the Young Workforce (DYW) co-ordinators in all Secondary and ASN schools. Green: New heating controls have been installed in our schools, which offer a high degree of environmental sustainability and energy efficiency, optimising performance and providing remote connectivity. Page 107 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Fair: Nurturing bright, happy and healthy futures for all Achievements • Early years establishments and primary schools have been supported to deliver effective emotional literacy through coaching from Barnardo's. For secondary schools, HeadStrong designed a bespoke emotional literacy package. • Our online, interactive, Alcohol and Substance Education Awareness programme is being implemented across our learning establishments. This resource received national recognition, winning a COSLA Excellence Award in the Tackling Inequalities and Improving Health and Wellbeing category, in September 2023. • The Mentors in Violence Prevention (MVP) programme is providing young people across most Renfrewshire secondary schools with the skills to challenge attitudes to gender-based violence (GBV). • We have successfully rolled out the Safe and Together model across Children’s Services Social Work. The principles of Safe and Together have been embedded in practice and has been supported by multiagency training. Areas for improvement and development • The percentage point gap between the attainment in literacy of pupils living in the most and least deprived areas has increased. • School attendance and senior phase stay-on rates have fallen behind targets. 96% of our school leavers are in positive destinations Attainment gap in numeracy decreased between pupils living in the most and least deprived SIMD areas 91% of children looked after by the Council are cared for in the community Low number of care leavers presenting as homeless in the past 6 months Page 108 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Improving Outcomes for Children and Families Achievements • As part of our commitment to keeping The Promise in Renfrewshire, we have recruited 266 Promise Keepers who act as local champions, helping to educate and improve services for care experienced children and young people. • Our service redesign has resulted in initiatives such as Families First, Home Link and Care Experienced Home Link being incorporated into the Renfrewshire Family Wellbeing Service. This has streamlined the way that family support is accessed and provided to ensure consistency and equity across localities. • Work is ongoing to ensure that UNCRC is embedded in all future policy and planning decisions. Areas for improvement and development • The pandemic had a disproportionate effect on our most deprived areas, leading to an increase in the poverty-related attainment gap. We continue to target our work to support all children and young people to achieve. Low number of children moving on and off the Child Protection Register in past 2 years. Across all our work and through our best efforts, we hope for loving and happy lives for Renfrewshire’s children – working together to get it right for children, families and communities – protecting, learning, achieving and nurturing. Every priority of our Council Plan contributes to improving the lives of Renfrewshire’s children and their families. Social work service redesign is progressing, with ongoing engagement and consultation with stakeholders. We continue to welcome people to Renfrewshire that arrive through government humanitarian schemes. Page 109 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Actions and Performance Indicators Page 110 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Performance Key ACTION STATUS OVERDUE CHECK PROGRESS IN PROGRESS COMPLETED PERFORMANCE INDICATOR STATUS BELOW TARGET WARNING (within 10% of Target) ON TARGET NOT COMPARABLE DATA ONLY PERFORMANCE IMPROVING PERFORMANCE IN RANGE PERFORMANCE GETTING WORSE Page 111 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Place What we will do Due Date Status Progress update Progress development work in relation to the priority schools identified in the School Estate Management Plan - Paisley Grammar School Community Campus (PGSCC) 31-Aug-2026 The project is progressing through and coming to the end of RIBA stage 4. Pupil, staff and parent council stakeholder engagement sessions have taken place. Enabling works on site have now commenced and will continue through to mid-June 2024, where formal construction will begin Progress development work in relation to the priority schools identified in the School Estate Management Plan - Thorn Primary School 31-Mar-2026 Options for Thorn Primary School are being considered and will be shared at appropriate boards. Initial agreement is to develop the new build on the grounds of the current school, and plans will be progressed on this basis. Project is at the early requirements gathering stage. No agreement has been made yet at policy board or public level for when the school build will be finished. This will be confirmed in the coming months and reported as appropriate. Progress plans for the roll out of full Wi-Fi across the school estate, understanding the benefits that can be baselined and measured 31-Dec-2023 The roll out for secondary schools was completed in November 2023. Work has commenced in Primary and Early Learning and Childcare (ELC) centres, and all establishments will have Wi-Fi by June 2024. Page 112 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Economy What we will do Due Date Status Progress update Working in partnership with Skills Development Scotland, West College Scotland, Invest in Renfrewshire and Developing the Young Workforce West, we will ensure planned robust approaches to supporting our most vulnerable learners into positive destinations. 31-Mar- 2025 The School Transitions Group continues to meet regularly with a robust focus on supporting vulnerable learners into positive destinations. All secondary schools and our 2 schools for pupils with additional support needs (ASN) have a Developing the Young Workforce (DYW) coordinator. The key priority of these staff is to ensure all young people, particularly the most vulnerable, are provided with opportunities to support them into positive destinations post school including bespoke work placements and alternative pathways as appropriate. Monthly meetings take place to review the progress of these young people and to ensure that the right supports are in place for them. A supportive roadmap has been developed to support strategic planning within and across school teams. The work placement programme continues to provide opportunities for our young people. Employers continue to offer a range of opportunities such as site visits, training and long-term work placements for young people in the senior phase. 'My Futures Pathways' provision now includes an additional class group supporting Flexible Learning Resource (FLR) pupils. A Principal Teacher for College Pathways has been appointed to support partnership working with West College Scotland and to enhance future pathways provision with a particular focus on our care experienced young people. Gateway are relaunching the WorkIT datahub – Renfrewshire staff training taking place from April 2024. Page 113 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair What we will do Due Date Status Progress update In collaboration with Health partners, the West Partnership and the voluntary sector, continue to develop consistent, effective & preventative approaches to support recovery and improve the mental, social and emotional wellbeing of children, young people. 30-June-2023 All year 1 and 2 PATHs early years and primary schools are being effectively supported to deliver effective emotional literacy through coaching from Barnardo's. For secondary schools, funding was secured to procure HeadStrong to design a bespoke emotional literacy resource for Renfrewshire which was launched in August 2023. A comprehensive programme of professional learning (PL) was developed and delivered throughout the academic session to support effective implementation of the mental, social & emotional strands of wellbeing. Pre- and post-evaluations (including 6 months post-training) showed an increase in knowledge, skills and confidence in all staff who engaged with PL. Counselling services are in place to support all children and young people (CYP) from P1-S6 and parents where appropriate. 100% of CYP referred into counselling were screened within 5 days of referral and 82% have improved scores post-counselling. To promote staff wellbeing, Reflective Group Practices were adopted in 3 secondary schools with 80% of staff reporting that sessions helped support their own wellbeing. Our new online interactive Alcohol and Substance Education Awareness programme is being implemented across our early years' establishments and schools. A review has been undertaken with users and partners to identify gaps/improvements required. A report has been produced with. recommendations that will be addressed. The Mentors in Violence Prevention (MVP) peer mentoring programme is providing young people across almost all Renfrewshire secondary schools with the skills to challenge attitudes to gender-based violence (GBV). Teachers reported an increased confidence in recognising and dealing with GBV situations within their own schools. 95% of schools provided self-evaluation gradings of ‘good’ or ‘better’ for the Quality Indicator ‘Ensuring Wellbeing, Equality and Inclusion’. Page 114 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair What we will do Due Date Status Progress update Further embed the recommendations of The Promise in service delivery. 31-Mar- 2025 A High-Level Summary of Renfrewshire’s Progress Report to Keep The Promise (#KeepThePromise) has been produced outlining activity across Childrens Services, the council, Renfrewshire HSCP and the wider partnership. This report was shared with the Promise Oversight Group, Chief Executive, Community Planning Partnership Executive Group, Promise Scotland and COSLA. This report described Promise related activity in Renfrewshire including Education, Social Work, Whole Family Wellbeing, Employability, Mental Health, Youth Justice, Family Support, Workforce, Children’s Hearings, GIRFEC, UNCRC, Brothers & Sisters, Police, Fire & Rescue Service and Health. Renfrewshire’s Promise Keepers Network continues to grow with 266 Promise Keepers and there are ongoing plans to grow this network across the council, Renfrewshire HSCP and the wider partners. The Promise and its activity is clearly aligning with significant other policy areas across the work of Childrens Services and the council. The work and activity around The Promise is at a key stage in the 10-year programme. The publication of the Scottish Government’s Promise Implementation Plan is due in Spring 2024 and The Promise Plan 24- 30 is due to be published in Summer 2024. Upon publication of both these plans there will be initial mapping and planning around the implementation of both plans and what it means for Childrens Services and wider services in relation to our planning, priorities and governance arrangements. A review of governance arrangements will take place to ensure the structures are fit for purpose. There are concrete plans in place to engage with partners and engage parents, carers, children and young people about what the Scottish Government’s Promise Implementation Plan/ Promise Plan 24-30 will means for them and the local authority moving forward. Page 115 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair What we will do Due Date Status Progress update Development and implementation of the Learning, Teaching and Assessment Strategy that clearly articulates the vision for planning and delivering high quality learning, teaching and assessment. 30-June-2024 Work is ongoing to develop the Learning, Teaching and Assessment strategy. This will be informed by quality improvement visits, attainment data and learning from bespoke support to schools. Building on the Ren10 interface, create a request for assistance referral system which ensures timely support across a variety of services for children, young people, parents and carers and staff. 30-June-2023 Requirements and options have been compiled to explore the most appropriate interface for the request for assistance process. Some services are piloting a new request for assistance process, and this is in early stages. This action will be merged with whole family wellbeing planning going forward. Finalise Parenting Strategy, launch and deliver on key actions through portfolio. 31-Mar-2025 Excellent progress has been made to develop a whole family wellbeing service in Renfrewshire and the parenting strategy is embedded in this service ensuring that families get the right parenting support where and when required. Page 116 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair What we will do Due Date Status Progress update Where it is safe and appropriate to do so, families in need of support will be diverted away from social work and offered assessment and time-limited intervention from Barnardo’s. 31-Jan-2024 The Barnardo’s Early Help Services continues to provide an alternative to social work intervention for families who are experiencing difficulties which without support, might escalate to require statutory involvement. The service is now embedded in Paisley and Johnstone. As part of the service redesign, work is ongoing to shape the future provision, including how this will fit with the Front Door service and align with the Whole Family Wellbeing Service to ensure the right support to the right families at the right time. Given the service redesign work, the due date of this action is to be extended to 31st December 2024. Develop, design and implement an Early Interventions service within justice social work. 31-Mar-2024 The Early Intervention Service is now operational. All staff have been recruited within the fieldwork service, the women’s justice service and Whole Systems. Bail Supervision commenced in February 2024 and voluntary supervision transferred from the court team to this service on the same date. Thus, staff are now undertaking the full range of services including extended diversions and Structured Deferred Sentences. To update and refresh the staged intervention framework through a shared vision & improved integrated working across all services including education, health, social work, voluntary sector & employment, and training. 31-Mar-2024 The updated Staged Intervention Framework and associated processes, and protocols has been rolled out across all establishments in the Local Authority. Training for all Senior Leaders and Pupil Support Coordinators has been planned throughout the year to ensure successful implementation continues with a focus on quality assessment, planning and review at single agency level. Multi-agency training is also in place throughout the year to ensure all services are aware of and are using updated processes and procedures in line with the updated GIRFEC policy. A quality assurance framework has been established which will support the successful implementation of the Staged Intervention Framework which will include sampling of plans at various stages of intervention. Page 117 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair What we will do Due Date Status Progress update The Promise Strategic Oversight Board and workstreams will progress and ensure Renfrewshire ‘Keeps the Promise’ and delivers improved outcomes for individuals who are care experienced, wherever possible keeping children within their families. 31-Mar-2025 The Promise Strategic Oversight Group and workstreams continue to meet and have representation from different agencies and includes all key strategic corporate parent partners. The Workstream Chairs/Vice Chairs provide an update on progress on the group activities to the oversight group. This existing Oversight Group and workstreams structure will be reviewed upon publication of Scotland’s Promise Plan 24-30 expected June 2024. The Promise Manager attended the Renfrewshire Community Planning (CPP) Executive Group to ask CPP partners for their continued active representation in these groups and for their support in prioritising these groups going forward. Build local capacity for transformational whole systems change and to scale up and drive the delivery of holistic whole family support services. 31-Mar-2025 The family wellbeing service launch will take place in May 2024. This will publicise the new service and also launch the request for assistance software which will enable services to refer to each other as well as enabling parents to make direct request for support. 5 third sector organisations have been directly funded as part of the community family wellbeing services and a second round of funding is now being agreed. This additional capacity will provide more opportunities for families to access a range of varied support across localities to meet needs. Progress the design and delivery of the Curriculum, Learning, Teaching and Assessment; the Families and Communities; and the Inclusion Portfolios within Children’s Services 31-Mar-2025 Each portfolio continues to make progress against outcomes outlined in their plan. A mid-year service report details the impact of core areas of work in literacy, numeracy, assessment and moderation and health and wellbeing. Deliver mental health and wellbeing support, including Ren10 mental health and wellbeing network to support children, young people and 31-Mar-2025 Ren10 mental health and wellbeing supports continue to be delivered and are demonstrating positive impact for children and young people. A plan has been developed for the new session which focuses on embedded core approaches such as Non-Violence Resistance (NVR) training, Let's Introduce Anxiety Management (LIAM) and CAMHS partnership working. Page 118 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend Q1 2023/24 Q2 2023/24 Q3 2023/24 Q4 2023/24 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target Percentage of Looked After Children cared for in the community 90.4% 89.9% 90.8% 89.9% 90.5% 89.9% 90.9% 89.9% The percentage of children looked after in the community has increased by 0.4pp compared with Q3 of 2023/24, and has remained between 90% and 91% throughout the past 12 months. Most children looked after in Renfrewshire continue to live in a community setting either with their own family or with an alternative family. A residential house or school can be more suitable for a small number of children and young people based on their individual needs, but the service will always seek to have a child live in a family setting where appropriate. Please note, this indicator is also reported annually and the figure is derived from the Local Government Benchmarking Framework indicator CHN9 'Proportion of children being looked after in the community'. The last data published for this indicator is for 2021/22; the percentage of children looked after in Renfrewshire living with families in the community was 91.4%, above the Scotland average of 89.8%. Page 119 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend Q1 2023/24 Q2 2023/24 Q3 2023/24 Q4 2023/24 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target The percentage of NEW clients subject to a new supervision order seen by a supervising officer within 1 week 64% 85% Data Not Available Due to Transition to a New Case Management System Where the justice social worker recommends the court imposes a supervision order the criminal justice social work report details the first contact. Achieving this target is therefore dependent on the compliance of the person made the subject of the order attending as directed. Where the court defers sentence further before imposing the supervision order has a negative impact on performance. The justice team reviews performance regularly to identify issues. % of NEW unpaid work orders/requirement complete by the required date 96% 75% Data Not Available Due to Transition to a New Case Management System Target continues to be exceeded. Court services recovering and the number of new orders imposed has continued to increase over recent months. The service continues to prioritise workloads and deliver unpaid work activity in accordance with safe working guidelines. Page 120 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend Q1 2023/24 Q2 2023/24 Q3 2023/24 Q4 2023/24 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target Percentage of NEW unpaid work clients seen within 1 working day of the order 53% 70% Data Not Available Due to Transition to a New Case Management System Despite significant recovery being achieved recently, performance in this area had declined compared to Q4 of 2022/23. Those made the subject of unpaid work orders should be seen at court on the day of sentence and directed to an appointment with unpaid work staff to allow this target to be achieved. At present there are vacancies within the court social work team which are compounded by operational issues within the Courts which are having a negative impact on performance. Orders imposed by courts outwith Renfrewshire also impact as there are delays in information sharing with Renfrewshire and a lack of contact details which then require postal contact, thus causing further delays. Page 121 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend Q1 2023/24 Q2 2023/24 Q3 2023/24 Q4 2023/24 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target Percentage of NEW unpaid work clients receiving an induction within 5 working days of the order 62% 75% Data Not Available Due to Transition to a New Case Management System Performance in Q1 of 2023/24 has significantly declined compared with Q4 of 2022/23. This is despite general improvements over the course of the previous year. These improvements reflected focussed efforts to prioritise health and safety inductions to ensure that service users are ready for available work placements. The impact on first appointments, then impacts on all later timescales. Percentage of NEW unpaid work clients beginning work placement within 7 working days of the order 58% 65% Data Not Available Due to Transition to a New Case Management System Performance has missed the target in Q1, having exceeded it in the previous two quarters. The demand for weekend work placements remains high, and the service continues to adapt in response to this shift. Staff sickness and vacancies continue to impact workforce capacity and the impact on first appointments, then impacts on all later timescales. Page 122 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend Q1 2023/24 Q2 2023/24 Q3 2023/24 Q4 2023/24 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target Percentage of accommodated Looked After Children placed with families 88.1% 83% 89.3% 83% 89.7% 83% 90.3% 83% The majority of accommodated children live in a family setting and this will continue to be the preferred option. There are times when it is more appropriate to support a looked after and accommodated child in a residential house or school, or times when a children’s hearing considers this necessary. Percentage of care leavers participating in employment, training or education 41% 55% 54% 55% 54% 55% 56% 55% The proportion of care leavers with open throughcare involvement and in employment, education or training has increased by 2 percentage-points since Q3. The figure of 56% reflects that 68 of 122 care leavers with throughcare involvement were in employment, education or training at the quarter end date. This represents a similar rate in employment, education or training in comparison to the same period of time in the previous reporting year. Page 123 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend Q1 2023/24 Q2 2023/24 Q3 2023/24 Q4 2023/24 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target Percentage of care leavers who have had a period of homelessness in the last 6 months 3% 0% 5% 0% 2% 0% 6% 0% The number and percentage of care leavers with a period of homelessness in the past six months has increased since Q3. The figure of 6% equates to 7 young people, of the 124 care leavers with an open throughcare involvement, representing a lower proportion with a period of homelessness compared to the same period in the previous year. All individuals were either living with family members/friends or provided with temporary homeless accommodation either in Renfrewshire or in other local authority areas. Throughcare and Housing continue to work together to prevent homelessness and to support young people in sustaining tenancies. Page 124 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend 2019/20 2020/21 2021/22 2022/23 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target % of Leavers attaining literacy SCQF Level 4 97% 98% 97% 98% 96% 98% 96% 98% The percentage of leavers in Renfrewshire achieving literacy at SCQF level 4 or above has remained relatively constant over the past 5 years. Renfrewshire remains ahead of the national figures and in line with the virtual comparator in this measure. In the 2022/23 leavers cohort 96% of Renfrewshire pupils achieved this literacy at SCQF level 4, compared with 94% nationally and 95% for the virtual comparator. % of Leavers attaining numeracy SCQF Level 4 95% 93% 94% 94% 93% 94% 93% 94% Patterns of attainment in numeracy are similar to literacy, although literacy attainment is higher across both levels. At SCQF level 4, numeracy attainment is broadly consistent over 5 years. Renfrewshire is consistently ahead of national figures over 5 years and remains in line with the virtual comparator. In the 2022/23 leavers cohort 93% of Renfrewshire pupils achieved SCQF level 4 numeracy, compared with 91% nationally and 92% for the virtual comparator. Page 125 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend 2019/20 2020/21 2021/22 2022/23 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target % of Leavers attaining literacy SCQF Level 5 88% 86% 90% 86% 87% 88% 85% 88% Attainment in literacy at SCQF level 5 or above is slightly lower than previous years however this is consistent with both the virtual and national comparator figures. Renfrewshire remains in line with the virtual comparator and ahead of national figures in this measure. In the 2022/23 leavers cohort 85% of Renfrewshire pupils achieved this measure, compared with 81% nationally and 85% for the virtual comparator. % of Leavers attaining numeracy SCQF Level 5 78% 75% 80% 75% 77% 77% 75% 77% The percentage of Renfrewshire school leavers achieving SCQF Level 5 or above in numeracy has decreased slightly on previous years, however, remains broadly in line with pre-pandemic levels. Renfrewshire remains ahead of the virtual comparator and national figures in this measure. In the 2022/23 leavers cohort 75% of Renfrewshire pupils achieved this measure, compared with 74% nationally and 71% for the virtual comparator. Page 126 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend 2019/20 2020/21 2021/22 2022/23 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target Average Total Tariff Score of Looked After Children (school leavers) 218 310 471 320 328 330 320 330 The average total tariff of Renfrewshire’s care-experienced school leavers fell from 328 to 320. Due to the small number of looked after pupils in each leavers cohort there is considerable variation in the average tariff from year to year. However, this remains higher than the average score recorded pre- pandemic. Gap between the Average Total Tariff Score of Looked After Children (school leavers) and that of the total Renfrewshire leavers cohort 78% 65% 58% 64% 67% 63% 66% 63% The percentage gap between the average total tariff score of care experienced school leavers and the general leavers cohort has reduced by 1 percentage-point. The number of looked after pupils in each leaver’s cohort is small therefore a high degree of variation is expected in these figures year on year. Page 127 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend 2019/20 2020/21 2021/22 2022/23 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target Average Complementary Tariff (S4) 318 313 320 316 311 320 300 320 The average complementary tariff score of S4 pupils in Renfrewshire has decreased over the previous 2 years. The 2022/23 figure of 300 is down on the 2020/21 figure of 320, and last year's average of 311. Renfrewshire's score remains greater than that of the national average and its virtual comparator. Average Complementary Tariff (S5) 588 560 628 565 604 570 587 570 The average complementary tariff score of S5 pupils in Renfrewshire has decreased to pre-pandemic levels. The 2022/23 figure of 587 is down on the 2020/21 figure of 628, and last year's average of 604, illustrating a decline. Renfrewshire's score remains greater than that of the national average and its virtual comparator. Page 128 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend 2019/20 2020/21 2021/22 2022/23 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target Percentage Point Gap in % Pupils Achieving Expected Level for their stage in Literacy between pupils living in 30% Most Deprived areas and those living in 70% Least Deprived Areas (SIMD) 12 9 12 8 15 7 16 10 The percentage point gap between the attainment in literacy of pupils living in the most and least deprived areas has increased to 16 percentage points, in comparison to 15.4 percentage points in 2021/22. Percentage Point Gap in % Pupils Achieving Expected Level for their stage in Numeracy between pupils living in 30% Most Deprived areas and those living in 70% Least Deprived Areas (SIMD) 10 8 10 7 13 6 11 9 The percentage point gap between the attainment in numeracy of pupils living in the most and least deprived areas has decreased to 11 percentage points, after a slight increase between 2021 and 2022. Page 129 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend 2019/20 2020/21 2021/22 2022/23 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target Percentage Point Gap in % Pupils Achieving Expected Level for their stage in Literacy between pupils entitled to Free School Meals and pupils not entitled 18 16 18 15 21 14 22 15 The percentage point gap between the attainment in literacy of pupils entitled to free meals and those not entitled has increased for a second consecutive year, having remained at approximately 18 percentage points between 2019 and 2021. However, due to the expansion of universal entitlement to P4 and P5, these figures are not directly comparable to previous years. Percentage Point Gap in % Pupils Achieving Expected Level for their stage in Numeracy between pupils entitled to Free School Meals and pupils not entitled 14 16 14 15 17 14 18 14 The percentage point gap between the attainment in numeracy of pupils entitled to free meals and those not entitled has increased for a second consecutive year, having remained at approximately 14 percentage points between 2019 and 2021. However, due to the expansion of universal entitlement to P4 and P5, these figures are not directly comparable to previous years. Page 130 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend 2019/20 2020/21 2021/22 2022/23 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target % of School leavers in a positive destination 94.0% 95% 96.5% 95% 96.6% 95% 96.4% 98% The percentage of leavers entering a positive destination is in line with the previous year at 96.4%. This is an increase over 5 years and Renfrewshire remains in line with the virtual comparator and marginally ahead of the national figure. In the 2022/23 leavers cohort, 41.6% of Renfrewshire’s leavers entered higher education, 24.9% went into further education and 26.1% were employed. Compared with national figures, Renfrewshire has a higher proportion of pupils entering higher education and employment. The proportion of Renfrewshire leavers entering higher education is behind the virtual comparator however Renfrewshire is above the virtual figure in employment and in line within further education. Page 131 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend 2019/20 2020/21 2021/22 2022/23 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target No of foundation apprenticeships accessed by Renfrewshire school pupils 42 40 44 40 55 45 14 45 During 2022/23, 14 young people from Renfrewshire schools began Foundation Apprenticeships. More frameworks have been established in the area, but had to be cancelled due to no uptake. A richer curriculum is currently offered at school that includes a wide range of new courses, and creates additional opportunities for young people. We will continue to work with West College Scotland to provide attractive options for young people and intend to grow this number year after year as part of the wider goal of positive post- school destinations for all young people. Page 132 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend 2020/21 2021/22 2022/23 2023/24 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target Percentage of pupils satisfied with establishments Education Scotland Survey n/a 100% n/a 100% 77% 100% 82.7% 100% Figures for this indicator are taken from pupil responses to surveys sent out by inspectors; in this case, it is the proportion responding positively to the statement “I enjoy learning at my school”. As such, they relate to a proportion of pupils in a small number of schools. Schools included in 2023/24 to date are St Mary's, Bishopton, and Brediland Primary Schools, and St Margaret's Primary School and ELC. This measure does not take into account other statements which cover the broader aspects of school life, such as pastoral care, extracurricular activities, and the relationships between pupils and staff. Page 133 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend 2019/20 2020/21 2021/22 2022/23 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target % of children attending school (Primary) 94.1% 95.5% 94.6% 95.5% 92.6% 95.5% 92.8% 95.5% Renfrewshire primary schools have worked hard to maintain a strong level of attendance, with a slight increase from 2021/22. By comparison, the rate of children attending primary school across Scotland has fallen for the fourth collection in a row. Attendance in Renfrewshire is above the national rate by 0.6 percentage points. % of children attending school (Secondary) 89.4% 91% 87.9% 91% 87.1% 91% 86.9% 91% Renfrewshire secondary schools have worked hard to maintain attendance. However, challenges for some families has resulted in pockets of attendance falling. This is a picture which is being replicated across the country. The National comparator data for attendance shows that Renfrewshire is below the national rate by 0.8 percentage points. Page 134 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend 2020/21 2021/22 2022/23 2023/24 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target % of young people choosing to stay onto S5 (as % of S4 roll at September previous year) 93.3% 92% 94.5% 92% 92.9% 92% 87.8% 92% The percentage of pupils staying on to S5 year has fallen in comparison to 2022/23. This year's figure represents a fall to below 90% for the first time since the collection began in 2017/18. There is no national comparator data for this specific measure at present. % of young people choosing to stay onto S6 (as % of S4 roll at September two years before) 69.0% 69% 72.4% 70% 71.4% 71% 63.2% 71% Stay on rates for young people choosing to stay on to S6 have fallen below target, having been above 70% in the previous two years. Education for the senior phase has a strong focus on personal development and employability skills as well as on academic attainment, and support is offered to ensure positive post-school positive destinations for all. Page 135 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Green What we will do Due Date Status Progress update Continue to work with other council services to deliver improvements to the school estate which offer a high degree of environmental sustainability and energy efficiency. 31-Mar-2026 A new learning estate management model has been developed to ensure robust governance of the learning estate decision making. This includes wider council chief officers. Page 136 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Living our Values What we will do Due Date Status Progress update Staff will be supported to collaboratively learn and develop across Children’s Services 31-Mar-2024 The Social Work Professional Training Section continues to deliver a comprehensive training programme for all staff. The refresh of the Getting It Right For Every Child (GIRFEC) approach has been delivered with high numbers of staff participating in training and briefings. Engage and participate in trauma informed and responsive Renfrewshire programme 31-Mar-2026 Children’s Services continues to promote trauma informed and responsive practice with children, young people and their families. The multi-agency and single training programme has been revised to ensure that trauma informed, and responsive practice underpins the delivery and participation. Work is ongoing to update all policies and procedures to ensure they are trauma informed and responsive. Page 137 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Living our Values Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend Q1 2023/24 Q2 2023/24 Q3 2023/24 Q4 2023/24 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target % of Stage 1 complaints responded to within timescales agreed with customers 97% 95% 100% 95% 92% 95% 100% 95% Children's Services received 8 Front Line (Stage 1) complaints; all 8 were Education complaints and all were completed within target. This is an increase compared to the previous quarter, and also Q4 of 21/22 and 22/23. % of Stage 2 complaints responded to within timescales agreed with customers 88% 95% 80% 95% 84% 95% 91% 95% Children's Services received 22 Investigation (Stage 2) complaints; 17 Education and 5 Social Work. 20 were completed within target; 16 Education and 4 Social Work, and 2 completed outwith target; 1 Education and 1 Social Work. This is an increase compared to the previous quarter, however is less than the percentage completed within timescales in Q4 of 22/23. Page 138 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Living our Values Indicator Current Status Short term trend Long term trend Q1 2023/24 Q2 2023/24 Q3 2023/24 Q4 2023/24 Explanation of performance Value Target Value Target Value Target Value Target % of FOI requests completed within timescale by Children's Services 85% 100% 88% 100% 83% 100% 85% 100% Children's Services has seen an improvement in performance; 85% of FOIs were completed within timescales for Q4 of 23/24, an increase of 2 percentage-points from the previous quarter. Although performance is slightly below that reported in the first 6 months of last year, it is worth noting that there has been an increase in the volume of FOIs received when comparing the first 6 months of this reporting year to the last 6 months this reporting year; 113 FOIs were received in Q1 and Q2 compared to 117 in Q3 and Q4. For Q4, Children's Services had 60 FOI responses due; 42 Education and 18 Social Work. 50 were completed within the required timescale; 32 Education and 18 Social Work with 9 ED FOIs were completed outwith timescales. Throughout 2023/24, Children's Services had 230 FOIs due; 179 of these were for Education with 51 allocated to Social Work. 197 were completed within timescale, 146 Education and 51 Social Work, with 33 Education completed outwith the timescale. Page 139 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Management Information Indicator Q1 2023/24 Q2 2023/24 Q3 2023/24 Q4 2023/24 Explanation of performance Value Value Value Value Percentage of children registered in this period who have previously been on the Child Protection Register 3.4% 2.3% 13.6% 11.1% There were 27 new CP registrations between January and March 2024. 3 children had previously been registered within the last 2 years. Re-registrations are monitored as part of the Renfrewshire Child Protection Committee’s performance management to ensure that there have been no inappropriate de-registrations. Number of children on the Child Protection Register at quarter end date 73 91 68 61 There were 61 children on the Child Protection Register (CPR) as at the reporting period end date in Q4, compared to 68 as at the reporting period end date in Q3 of 2023/24. During Q4, there were 27 children newly registered and 33 children de-registered. Throughout 2023/24, 120 children were newly registered on the CPR while 141 children de-registered. Trends in child protection activity are monitored by the Renfrewshire Child Protection Committee which receives a report on a range of performance measures. Please note that there are no targets for these indicators Page 140 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Children’s Services Service Improvement Plan 2023 – 26 2023/24 Outturn Report Page 141 of 503
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1 _________________________________________________________________ To: Education and Children’s Services Policy Board On: 23 May 2024 __________________________________________________________________ Report by: Director of Children’s Services ___________________________________________________________________ Heading: Children’s Services 2024-2027 Service Improvement Plan ___________________________________________________________________ 1. Summary 1.1. The Service Improvement Plan for Children’s Services is a three-year plan covering the period 2024-2027. The purpose of the Plan is to identify the priorities being addressed, the key tasks to be implemented, the implementation timetable and our measures of success. 1.2. The Service Improvement Plan is part of a suite of documents which describe the strategic direction for the service and the Council, that also includes the Council Plan, Community Plan, Risk Management Plan, and the Workforce Plan. 1.3. The Service Improvement Plan is appended to this report and includes Performance Indicators and an Action Plan grouped under the Council Plan themes. A mid-year progress update on the Service Improvement Plan will be submitted to the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board in the Autumn of 2024. __________________________________________________________________ 2. Recommendations 2.1. It is recommended that the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board: (a) Notes the content of the attached Service Improvement Plan; (b) Approves the changes to the action plan and performance indicators outlined in Section 5; and Item 9 Page 142 of 503
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2 (c) Notes that mid-year progress of this Service Improvement Plan will be reported to this Board in the Autumn of 2024, with updates to the Performance Indicators and Action Plan. __________________________________________________________________ 3. Background 3.1. Renfrewshire’s Children’s Services are responsible for the delivery of early learning and childcare, universal services such as primary and secondary education, social work services to children and families, justice social work services, and targeted and specialist services for specific identified needs. These include child protection services, the provision of education to children and young people with additional support needs, mental health and addictions services for children and young people, and management and rehabilitation services for people who have committed offences. 3.2. Our approach is strongly focused on prevention, early intervention and providing additional support for the most vulnerable. Whilst children’s health services sit within Renfrewshire’s Health and Social Care Partnership (HSCP), a key priority of both organisations will be the continuation of effective integrated working to improve outcomes for children and young people. 3.3. The Service Improvement Plan is a comprehensive statement of the outcomes the service aims to achieve, and the actions it will take to achieve these. It fits within the wider planning framework of the Council by taking account of Community Planning themes and Council priorities. It enables elected members to have oversight of developments within the service and to consider and develop policy options which reflect both the needs of our children, young people, and their families and communities, and resource availability. __________________________________________________________________ 4. Service Improvement Plan 2024-2027: What do we want to achieve? 4.1. Over the next three years, Children’s Services will play a critical role in Renfrewshire’s local response to poverty, by sharing data and insight to direct resources to areas of greatest impact, and improving outcomes for children and families currently living in poverty. 4.2. All Council services continue to operate in a challenging context. Our communities face a cost-of-living challenge, and we will respond by addressing the causes of inequalities. Schools and children’s social work services are also witnessing increases in scale of need and demand caused by households facing financial difficulty. 4.3. Children’s Services will continue to draw upon relevant insight to target its resources appropriately, with contributions complementing the activity outlined Page 143 of 503
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3 in the Renfrewshire Children’s Services Partnership Plan, the Education Improvement Plan, and the Fairer Renfrewshire Programme. 4.4. In accordance with the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC), we will ensure that the voices of children and young people are heard and included, and their human rights are respected. Children and young people’s human rights will be at the heart of the planning and delivery of services that affect them. Children’s Services will inform Renfrewshire’s response to UNCRC by promoting awareness of children’s rights, not just amongst children and young people but also adults. 4.5. By ensuring that robust child protection procedures are in place, we will protect the most vulnerable members of our communities, including children and young people who are at risk of harm. Our Equally Safe Strategy will be refreshed, and implemented in our education settings, underpinning our commitment to eradicating violence against women and girls and providing safety for all. 4.6. Children’s Services are committed to supporting and nurturing our children, families and communities, through our approach to the whole family wellbeing model. We will also promote early and preventative intervention, and continue supporting children, young people and their families to prepare for the move into adult services and greater independence. We aim to engage with, and encourage participation of, children, young people and their families to ensure that their needs are met. 4.7. The family wellbeing service and request for assistance system will be formally launched. We will increase capacity to support parents through additional third sector grant funding and identify local areas for family wellbeing hubs. Through the family wellbeing evaluation strategy, we will be able to evidence improvements against the strategic development areas outlined in the family wellbeing action plan. 4.8. The work and activity around Renfrewshire’s response to The Promise is at a key stage in the 10-year programme. The Scottish Government’s Promise Implementation Plan and The Promise Plan 2024-30 is due to be published in Summer 2024. Upon publication of these plans there will be initial mapping and planning around the implementation of both plans and what it means for Childrens Services and wider Council services in relation to our planning, priorities and governance arrangements. 4.9. As we develop our learning estate, we are committed to developing modern, energy efficient and fit for purpose buildings, strengthening our approach to planning, and creating an inclusive environment to allow children and young people to thrive. 4.10. We aim to raise attainment for all, close the attainment gap for our most vulnerable children, focus on improvements in literacy and numeracy, and ensure the educational needs of children, young people and their parents and Page 144 of 503
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4 carers are met. We will continue to support vulnerable young people to achieve and sustain positive pathways after leaving school. 4.11. Following our service re-designs, models will be developed to enable effective delivery of our key workforce priorities to support the health, safety and wellbeing of our staff. Following service re-designs, collaborative and people- centred, reflecting our values with regular workshops and catch ups. __________________________________________________________________ 5. Proposed changes to the Action Plan and Performance Indicators 5.1. From the 2024/25 reporting year, we will no longer report on the action ‘Further embed the recommendations of The Promise in service delivery’. Instead, this will be superseded by the action ‘The Promise Strategic Oversight Board and workstreams will progress and ensure Renfrewshire ‘Keeps the Promise’ and delivers improved outcomes for individuals who are care experienced, wherever possible keeping children within their families’ – which is already reported through both the Service Improvement Plan and the Council Plan. This will ensure consistency and avoid duplication in reporting on Renfrewshire’s progress in #KeepingThePromise. 5.2. Progress on ‘Finalise Parenting Strategy, launch and deliver on key actions through portfolio’, will continue to be monitored through the Inclusion Portfolio and the Education Improvement Plan, although it will be reported to this Board through the action ‘Build local capacity for transformational whole systems change and to scale up and drive the delivery of holistic whole family support services’. 5.3. It is recommended that the following two performance indicators should be removed from the Service Improvement Plan: • Average Complementary Tariff (S4) • Average Complementary Tariff (S5) 5.4. If acceptable, these will be replaced with the following three indicators which will provide an overall picture of pupil attainment throughout the senior phase: • Average total tariff score of all school leavers in Renfrewshire • Average total tariff score of leavers living in SIMD 30% most deprived areas • Percentage gap in average total tariff score of school leavers resident in SIMD 30% most deprived and those from the 70% least SIMD deprived Renfrewshire areas 5.5. The most recent data for these three indicators is included in the appendix to this report. Page 145 of 503
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5 5.6. Finally, the title of the following performance indicator should be updated to reflect how it is recorded and reported nationally through the Improvement Service’s Local Government Benchmarking Framework (LGBF). From 2024/25, this indicator will be reported as ‘Proportion of children being looked after in the community’: • ‘Percentage of Looked After Children cared for in the community (%)’ __________________________________________________________________ 6. Monitoring progress 6.1. Progress on the implementation of the Service Improvement Plan is regularly monitored by the extended Senior Leadership Team and will be reported to the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board on a six-monthly basis. A mid- year review of progress will be brought to this Board in the Autumn of 2024, with an annual outturn reported in Spring 2025. Implications of the Report 1. Financial – The Service Improvement Plan highlights resourcing pressures arising from increasing demand for services and the current financial environment. 2. HR & Organisational Development – The Service Improvement Plan also highlights workforce development and wellbeing considerations. 3. Community/Council Planning – The report details a range of activities which reflect Council and Community Planning themes and a direct link to the delivery of the Council Plan. 4. Legal – none. 5. Property/Assets – none. 6. Information Technology – Service developments relating to information technology are key enablers of service improvement, modernisation, and support service-level and corporate objectives. 7. Equality & Human Rights – The Recommendations contained within this report have been assessed in relation to their impact on equalities and human rights. No negative impacts on equality groups or potential for infringement of individuals’ human rights have been identified arising from the recommendations contained in the report. If required following implementation, the actual impact of the recommendations and the mitigating actions will be reviewed and monitored, and the results of the assessment will be published on the Council’s website. 8. Health & Safety – none. 9. Procurement – none. Page 146 of 503
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6 10. Risk – Risks related to the delivery and management of services are regularly monitored and included in Renfrewshire Council’s Corporate and Strategic Risk Registers. 11. Privacy Impact – none. 12. COSLA Policy Position – none. 13. Climate Change – Actions and performance indicators aligned to Strategic Priority 4: Green, of Renfrewshire’s Council Plan, highlights activities across the Council to tackle climate change. ___________________________________________________________________ List of Background Papers: None ___________________________________________________________________ Author: Alasdair Mann, Policy Officer (People) Contact Officer: Yvonne Farquhar, Policy Manager (People) Appendix I: Service Improvement Plan 2024-2027 ___________________________________________________________________ Page 147 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Children’s Services Service Improvement Plan 2024 – 27 Page 148 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Welcome to our Service Improvement Plan I am delighted to introduce Renfrewshire Council’s Children’s Services Service Improvement Plan for 2024 to 2027, my first as Director. The plan sets out our vision for the three years ahead, and how we as a team will help ensure the organisation delivers on the strategic outcomes set out in the Council Plan. Councils everywhere are facing a very challenging financial context over the years ahead, while the cost-of-living crisis and poverty- related inequalities will continue to affect our communities. So that makes it all the more important we have a clear sense of direction on how to focus our resources to deliver on what’s most important – helping deliver the best start to life for Renfrewshire’s children and young people. This plan will help us do that. I have been impressed by the commitment and great work already being delivered by colleagues across the service, and the plan sets out where we can continue and build on that over the next three years. Our areas of focus will include putting children and young people at the heart of our services, tackling the impact of poverty, protecting the most vulnerable, raising attainment for all, and creating the best possible environment for our children and young people to thrive. That will mean a team effort across the service, the wider council and our partners. I look forward to working with all you to do that. Janie O’Neill Director of Children’s Services Page 149 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Our Children’s Services Page 150 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Children’s Services - about us Children’s Services are responsible for the delivery of early learning and childcare, primary and secondary education, social work services to children and families, and justice social work services. Children’s Services provides universal services such as education, and targeted and specialist services for specific identified needs. Our specialist provision includes child protection services, providing education to children and young people with additional support needs, mental health and addictions services for children and young people, and management and rehabilitation services for people who have committed offences. The Director of Children’s Services is the Council’s Chief Education Officer and is supported by three Heads of Service: two Heads of Education and the Head of Children and Justice Social Work. The Head of Children and Justice Social Work is also the Chief Social Work Officer for the Council and the Health and Social Care Partnership. Director of Children’s Services Janie O’Neill Head of Children and Justice Social Work John Trainer Interim Head of Education Emma Henry Interim Head of Education Gerry Lyons Page 151 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Our Resources and Risks BUDGET On 29 February 2024, the 2024/25 General Service budgets for the following were approved: • Revenue budget £519m. • Capital budget £450m (2024/25 to 2028/29). The Children’s Services revenue budget for 2024/25 is approximately £254m, equating to almost half of the Council’s General Services budget. As part of the capital budget, over £56m will be invested in 2024/25 as part the investment in Schools and Early Years establishments, with £155m to be invested over the period 2024/25 to 2028/29. RISK MANAGEMENT The Council’s risk management arrangements are well established with all strategic, corporate and service risks being reported to the Audit, Risk and Scrutiny Board. Children’s Services risks are detailed below: Risk Level Strategic Corporate Service Very High • Successful Cyber Attack High • Strategic sustainable planning for people and assets • Delivery of the Dargavel solution • Organisational learning from Dargavel investigation Moderate • Portfolio Management - Unintended delays in progress in each of the three 1. Curriculum, learning, teaching and assessment; 2. Inclusion; and 3. Families and Communities • Availability of Alternative Care Placement (Foster Care and Residential Care) Page 152 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Renfrewshire Council’s Service Improvement Context Reflecting our values Delivering financially sustainable services Promoting equality, diversity and inclusion Delivering Best Value Aligning to our Council Plan and the Community Plan Page 153 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Workforce innovation and wellbeing The Council launched its people strategy “Our People, Our Future” in 2021, which was updated in 2023 with the following 3 priorities: Improving our Workforce Planning Equality, Diversity, and Inclusion Employee Experience The strategy describes the Council’s organisational development vision and workforce planning activities under three strategic outcomes – improving our employee experience, workforce planning and equality, diversity and inclusion. The strategy is aligned with the Council Plan and is focussed on the Council improving our employees’ experience whilst at work, looking at living our values, employee voice and recognitions which all positively impact on the culture within our workplace. There is a focus on workforce planning, there are many changes and challenges facing the Council in the coming years and this will ensure the right workforce and right skills are in place to deliver this. The last priority is focussed on inclusion, the council wants to be a place where everyone feels included and has a richness of diversity. Children’s Services will ensure these priorities are reflected in both our strategic and day-to-day operations. High-level actions are embedded in our Service Improvement Plan, with a particular emphasis this year on supporting our teams following service re-designs. These re-designs have been – and will continue to be – collaborative and people-centred, reflecting our values with regular workshops and catch ups. We also continue to actively promote health and wellbeing policies and initiatives alongside managing absence. Page 154 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Cost-of-Living-Crisis Humanitarian Support and Resettlement UN Convention on the Rights of the Child The Promise GIRFEC Refresh and additional support for learning review Tackling the poverty-related attainment gap National Guidance for Child Protection in Scotland Vision for Justice in Scotland National Care Service Raising Attainment for All Climate Change Education Reform National Social Work Agency National Policy Context Page 155 of 503
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Our Values Council and Community Plans Gaelic Language Plan Re Local Policy Context Page 156 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Key Priorities Raise attainment and enhance learning and teaching in an inclusive environment Protect the most vulnerable members of our communities, including children and young people who are at risk Place children and young people’s human rights at the heart of the planning and delivery of services that affect them Create the best possible learning estate to allow children and young people to thrive Reduce child poverty in Renfrewshire and improving outcomes for children and families currently living in poverty Support and nurture our children, families and communities Page 157 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Our Focus 2024/25 • Playing a critical part in ourlocal response to poverty, sharing data and insight to direct resources to areas of greatestimpact • In accordance with UNCRC, ensure thatvoices of children and young peopleare heard and included, and their human rights arerespected • Ensure that robust child protection responses are in placeand implement our updated local procedures • Continuing the progress of Renfrewshire’s response to KeepingThe Promise • Enhance our approach to thewhole family wellbeingmodel, promoting early and preventative intervention • Work collaboratively with our key partners to ensure our children and young people enjoy good physical and mental health Page 158 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Our Focus 2024/25 • Supporting children, young people and their families to prepare for themove into adult services and greaterindependence • Through the Learning and Teaching Strategy, close the attainment gap with a focus on improvement in literacy and numeracy • Strengthen our approach to planning and future proofing our learning estate • Supporting the review of ourEqually Safe Strategy • Continuing to support vulnerable young people toachieve and sustain positive pathwaysafter leaving school; and • Continue to develop our service models and to enable effective delivery of our key workforce priorities to support the health, safety and wellbeing of our staff. Page 159 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Alongside our Service Improvement Plan and progress reporting, we also have a range of key plans, strategies and reports (click on titles to access) Children’s Services Partnership Plan Education Improvement Plan Council Plan Community Plan Renfrewshire Inclusion Strategy Governance A wide range of reports are presented to the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board. Papers and access to video recordings of board meetings can be found here. Other plans, strategies and reports Page 160 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan Children’s Services Action Plan and Performance Indicators Page 161 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Place What will we do? What difference will we make? Who is leading this? When will we do this by? Progress development work in relation to the priority schools identified in the Learning Estate Management Plan – a) Paisley Grammar School Community Campus b) Thorn Primary School Pupils and staff enjoy a modern, fit for purpose, learning estate which supports learning and achievement. Education Manager (Learning Estate & Resources) a) 31 August 2026 b) 31 March 2026 Undertake an evaluation of the roll out of full Wi-Fi across the school estate Ensure that we have good connections which supports flexible learning and allows that is aligned to current technology trends. Digital Learning and Link Manager 31 March 2026 Page 162 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Place What will we do? What difference will we make? Who is leading this? When will we do this by? Refresh Renfrewshire’s Equally Safe Strategy Preventing and eradicating violence against women and girls. Justice Services Manager 31 December 2024 Continue to implement ‘Equally Safe at School’ policy A whole school approach to preventing and eradicating violence against women and girls, with staff and students working together with a shared understanding and commitment to equality and safety for all. Justice Services Manager Education Manager (Quality Improvement and Health & Wellbeing) 31 March 2027 Implement the priority actions from the National Strategy for Community Justice with our Community Justice partners Enhance intervention at the earliest opportunity by ensuring greater consistency, confidence in and awareness of services which support the use of direct measures and diversion from prosecution. Enhance community integration and support by increasing and promoting greater use of voluntary throughcare and third sector services. Justice Services Manager Community Justice Lead Officer 31 March 2027 Page 163 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Economy What will we do? What difference will we make? Who is leading this? When will we do this by? Working in partnership with Skills Development Scotland, West College Scotland, Invest in Renfrewshire and Developing the Young Workforce West, we will ensure planned robust approaches to supporting our most vulnerable learners into positive destinations This will provide a coordinated approach to ensuring that all young people, particularly the most vulnerable, are given the best opportunities and supports to move into positive future pathways. Education Manager (Developing the Young Workforce) 31 March 2025 Contribute to the Council’s Workforce Plan and Strategic Recruitment and Talent Management Plan to enable us to meet workforce demands particularly in relation to Teaching and Social Work Creating a high performing and sustainable workforce capable of meeting the Council’s future challenges. Education Manager (Leadership & Professional Development) Strategic Manager (Children and Justice Social Work) 31 March 2027 Page 164 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair What will we do? What difference will we make? Who is leading this? When will we do this by? Implementation of the Learning, Teaching and Assessment Strategy that clearly articulates the vision for planning and delivering high quality learning, teaching and assessment All staff will be aware of the Renfrewshire Vision for learning, teaching and assessment and features of highly effective practice and will begin to use them in their practice. All practitioners are provided with the opportunity to learn from and share highly effective practice. All staff will be empowered and supported to strengthen their practice through collaboration and professional learning. Learners’ experiences will improve as the vision for highly effective practice is realised in each establishment. Education Manager (Assessment & Moderation) 31 March 2027 Where it is safe and appropriate to do so, families in need of support will be diverted away from social work and offered assessment and time-limited intervention from Barnardo’s More children will be able to safely remain within the care of their families. Families’ capacity to safely meet the needs of their children is increased. Fewer children will require statutory social work intervention. Children’s Services Manager (Front-Door) 31 December 2024 Page 165 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair What will we do? What difference will we make? Who is leading this? When will we do this by? Raise attainment and skills for learning, life, and work to enhance opportunities and choices for all our children and young people Close the educational attainment gap for our care experienced children and young people. Ensuring equality through targeted improvement activity in literacy, numeracy and health and wellbeing Improve attendance and provide help to parents and carers to support their children and young people to meet their educational needs. Heads of Education 31 March 2027 The Promise Strategic Oversight Board and workstreams will progress and ensure Renfrewshire ‘Keeps the Promise’ and delivers improved outcomes for individuals who are care experienced, wherever possible keeping children within their families Care experienced young people have better outcomes and a more positive experience of care; feel listened to and valued; can build and maintain good relationships. The Promise Manager 31 March 2025 Page 166 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair What will we do? What difference will we make? Who is leading this? When will we do this by? Build local capacity for transformational whole systems change and to scale up and drive the delivery of holistic whole family support services Working with all stakeholders including professional associations to design a locality model to provide a framework for inclusion. Governance systems are clear, open, and transparent and ensure equity of approach, effective, efficient, and sustainable use of resources including the workforce, maximising funding across all localities. Inclusion offers through schools and specialist resources provide bespoke interventions to support children and young people from Early Years to Senior Phase. Education Manager (Whole Family Wellbeing) 31 March 2025 Progress the design and delivery of the Curriculum, Learning, Teaching and Assessment; the Families and Communities; and the Inclusion Portfolios within Children’s Services Each portfolio is tasked with developing their own portfolio plan to deliver on our agreed service priorities. Portfolios are unique, delivering on clear actions related to their context however they are also linked by cross-cutting actions, and this is evident in each plan. Portfolio planning teams have been established to support with the development and delivery of the portfolio plan. Teams are also responsible for evaluating and reporting at regular intervals throughout the year. All Heads of Service 31 March 2025 Page 167 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair What will we do? What difference will we make? Who is leading this? When will we do this by? Deliver mental health and wellbeing support, including Ren10 mental health and wellbeing network to support children, young people and their families Ensure key staff are equipped with the skills and knowledge to support families around mental health and wellbeing by establishing a strategic plan of training. By accessing appropriate training, staff will be better equipped to support children and young people with regards to their mental health. Education Manager (Quality Improvement & Health and Wellbeing) 31 March 2025 Establish a dedicated team to support kinship carers in Renfrewshire This will provide more focussed support to kinship carers and separate off the support provided to carers and the children they care for. This should reduce potential placement breakdowns and improve the overall experience of children in kinship care. Children’s Services Manager (Renfrewshire-Wide Services) 31 December 2024 Page 168 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair What will we do? What difference will we make? Who is leading this? When will we do this by? Introduce a new role of Independent Decision Maker within the Social Work Service. This role will be responsible for chairing Looked After Reviews and Child Protection Planning meetings. This will enhance the scrutiny and oversight of decision making for children who are accommodated or at risk of being accommodated therefore ensuring we keep as many children as possible living safely in their family home. Children’s and Justice Services Manager (Assurance & Change) 30 September 2024 Establish a whole service Social Work duty team with responsibility for all new requests for assistance. Standardise approach and improve practice in response to the first point of contact with Social Work. Children’s Services Manager (Front Door Services) 31 October 2024 Introduce whole service teams for cases which require medium- and longer-term allocation for Social Work support. This will be separate from new requests for assistance. The Social Workers in these teams will not require to be on duty on a weekly basis therefore reducing firefighting and allowing them to focus on more planned interventions with children and families. Cases will be allocated on capacity rather than geographic location and transfers within the service will be minimised to promote best practice in terms of relationship-based practice. Children’s Services Manager (Children & Families Teams) 31 October 2024 Page 169 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Performance Indicators Performance Indicators – Financial Year Last Updated Value Target Proportion of children being looked after in the community Q4 2023/24 90.9% 89.9% Percentage of accommodated Looked After Children placed with families Q4 2023/24 90.3% 83% Percentage of care leavers participating in employment, training or education Q4 2023/24 56% 55% Percentage of care leavers who have had a period of homelessness in the last 6 months Q4 2023/24 6% 0% The percentage of NEW clients subject to a new supervision order seen by a supervising officer within 1 week Q1 2023/24 64% 85% % of NEW unpaid work orders/requirement complete by the required date Q1 2023/24 96% 75% Percentage of NEW unpaid work clients seen within 1 working day of the order Q1 2023/24 53% 70% Percentage of NEW unpaid work clients receiving an induction within 5 working days of the order Q1 2023/24 62% 75% Percentage of NEW unpaid work clients beginning work placement within 7 working days of the order Q1 2023/24 58% 65% Page 170 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Performance Indicators Performance Indicator – Academic Year Last Updated Value Target % of Leavers attaining literacy SCQF Level 4 2022/23 95.7% 98% % of Leavers attaining numeracy SCQF Level 4 2022/23 93.0% 94% % of Leavers attaining literacy SCQF Level 5 2022/23 85.3% 88% % of Leavers attaining numeracy SCQF Level 5 2022/23 75.3% 77% Average total tariff score of all school leavers in Renfrewshire 2022/23 933 959 Average total tariff score of leavers living in SIMD 30% most deprived areas 2022/23 681 770 Percentage gap in average total tariff score of school leavers resident in SIMD 30% most deprived and those from the 70% least SIMD deprived Renfrewshire areas. 2022/23 36% 28% Average Total Tariff Score of Looked After Children (school leavers) 2022/23 320 330 Gap between the Average Total Tariff Score of Looked After Children (school leavers) and that of the total Renfrewshire leavers cohort 2022/23 66% 63% No of foundation apprenticeships accessed by Renfrewshire school pupils 2022/23 14 45 Percentage of pupils satisfied with establishments Education Scotland Survey 2023/24 82.7% 100% Page 171 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Fair Performance Indicators Performance Indicator – Academic Year Last Updated Value Target Percentage Point Gap in % Pupils Achieving Expected Level for their stage in Literacy between pupils living in 30% Most Deprived areas and those living in 70% Least Deprived Areas (SIMD) 2022/23 16 10 Percentage Point Gap in % Pupils Achieving Expected Level for their stage in Numeracy between pupils living in 30% Most Deprived areas and those living in 70% Least Deprived Areas (SIMD) 2022/23 11 9 Percentage Point Gap in % Pupils Achieving Expected Level for their stage in Literacy between pupils entitled to Free School Meals and pupils not entitled 2022/23 22 15 Percentage Point Gap in % Pupils Achieving Expected Level for their stage in Numeracy between pupils entitled to Free School Meals and pupils not entitled 2022/23 18 14 % of School leavers in a positive destination 2022/23 96.4% 98% % of children attending school (Primary) 2022/23 92.8% 95.5% % of children attending school (Secondary) 2022/23 86.9% 91% % of young people choosing to stay onto S5 (as % of S4 roll at September previous year) 2023/24 87.8% 92% % of young people choosing to stay onto S6 (as % of S4 roll at September two years before) 2023/24 63.2% 71% Page 172 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Green What will we do? What difference will we make? Who is leading this? When will we do this by? Continue to work with other council services to deliver improvements to the school estate which offer a high degree of environmental sustainability and energy efficiency. Following the Council’s declaration of a climate emergency in June 2019, the delivery of this action will make a critical contribution towards Renfrewshire being carbon neutral by 2030. Education Manager (Learning Estate & Resources) 31-Mar-2026 Page 173 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Living Our Values What will we do? What difference will we make? Who is leading this? When will we do this by? Engage and participate in Trauma Informed and Responsive Renfrewshire programme We understand what trauma is, and how it affects people, so we will now work differently: Learning and working together to co-create fair and helpful collaborations to support healing and recovery with people affected by trauma. Progress towards, and achievement of, improvement outcomes for people, systems and services as detailed of five strategic themes and outcomes in Trauma Informed and Responsive Renfrewshire programme All Heads of Service 31-Mar-2026 Actively promote health and wellbeing support for staff Our staff feel supported and are aware of the health and wellbeing support available to them. All Heads of Service 31-Mar-2027 Page 174 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Living Our Values What will we do? What difference will we make? Who is leading this? When will we do this by? Place the human rights and needs of every child and young person at the heart of service planning and delivery (UNCRC) Promote awareness of children’s rights, not just amongst children and young people but also adults. Strategic Manager (Children and Justice Social Work) Head of Education (Inclusion and Quality Improvement) 31-Mar-2027 Through engagement and participation, we will ensure the collective views, needs and aspirations of children, young people and families are met. We take steps to ensure seldom heard voices are heard e.g., care experienced children and young people and those children involved in child protection. The participation and influence of care experienced children, young people and their families is recorded and evidenced. Head of Education (Inclusion and Quality Improvement) Child Protection Adviser Children’s Services Manager (Children & Families Teams) 31-Mar-2027 In partnership with the HSCP, closely collaborate with young people and their families to ensure a smooth transition to adult services. Empower young people with disabilities and their families to make informed choices. Children’s Services Manager (Renfrewshire-Wide Services) 31-Mar-2027 Page 175 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Delivering the Council Plan – Living Our Values Management Information Performance Indicators Performance Indicators – Financial Year Last Updated Value Target % of Stage 1 complaints responded to within timescales agreed with customers Q4 2023/24 100% 95% % of Stage 2 complaints responded to within timescales agreed with customers Q4 2023/24 91% 95% % of FOI requests completed within timescale by Children's Services Q4 2023/24 85% 100% Performance Indicators – Financial Year Last Updated Value Percentage of children registered in this period who have previously been on the Child Protection Register Q4 2023/24 11.1% Number of children on the Child Protection Register at quarter end date Q4 2023/24 61 Page 176 of 503
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Title can go here • Click to edit Master text styles • Second level • Third level • Fourth level • Fifth level Children’s Services Service Improvement Plan 2024 – 27 Page 177 of 503
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Page 1 To: Education and Children Policy Board On: 23 May 2024 ___________________________________________________________________ Report by: Director of Children’s Services ___________________________________________________________________ Heading: Children’s Services Health and Well Being Strategy Update 2023/2024 ___________________________________________________________________ 1. Summary 1.1. The council’s health and safety strategy places a responsibility on each service to prepare an annual report evaluating the management of health and safety within the service. 1.2. The Children’s Services Health, Safety and Well Being Strategy 2023/2024 update is attached as Appendix 1. This sets out the arrangements for the management of health and safety within the service and demonstrates the service’s commitment to continuous improvement in health and safety performances summarising the achievements to March 2024 for Children’s Services. ___________________________________________________________________ 2. Recommendations 2.1. It is recommended that the education and children policy board approves the Health, Safety and Well Being Strategy completed actions for 2023/2024, attached at Appendix 1 3. Background 3.1. The council health and safety policy requires each council service to maintain its own health and safety policy. Item 10 Page 178 of 503
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Page 2 3.2. In line with council policy, health and safety policies are required as a minimum, to be reviewed and updated every 3 years or following significant changes in a service. 3.3. Children’s Services policy has been revised to reflect standard health and safety industry guidance on effective policies which set a clear direction for the service to follow. 3.4. The service health and safety policy sets out the organisation of, and responsibilities for, health and safety within the service and provides details of the arrangements made for the service to meet its legal obligations. Implications of this report 1. Financial Implications None. 2. HR and Organisational Development Implications Improved health, safety and welfare of employees. 3. Community Plan/Council Plan Implications Community Care, Health and Well-being - Improved health, safety and welfare of users. Safer and Stronger - The implementation of the council’s health and safety policy will contribute to improvement of service delivery. 4. Legal Implications This report must allow and assist the department to meet its legal requirement under health and safety legislation. 5. Property/Assets Implications Implementation of the council’s health and safety policy will ensure sustainability in service delivery. 6. Information Technology Implications None. 7. Equality and Human Rights Implications The Recommendations contained within this report have been assessed in relation to their impact on equalities and human rights. No negative impacts on equality groups or potential for infringement of individuals’ human rights have been identified arising from the recommendations contained in the report because for example it is for noting only. If required following implementation, the actual impact of the recommendations and the mitigating actions will be reviewed and monitored, and the results of the assessment will be published on the Council’s website. Page 179 of 503
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Page 3 8. Health and Safety Implications This policy reflects the commitment of the director, heads of service and managers to ensure that the main priorities for action are achieved within an environment, which is safe and is not harmful to the health of employees, clients and other users. 9. Procurement Implications None. 10. Risk Implications None. 11. Privacy Impact None. 12. COSLA Policy Position None. List of Background Papers • Children’s Services Health, Safety and Well Being Plan 2022/2024 – 18 August 2023 ___________________________________________________________________ Children’s Services GL/LB Author: Laura Baillie, Resources Support Manager 07970876292 (laura.baillie@renfrewshire.gov.uk) Page 180 of 503
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Appendix 1 Children’s Service’s Health, Safety and Well Being Strategy Update 2023/2024 Health and Safety Focused Themes Description Planned Start Date Date Completed Notes 1.Violence and Aggression 1.1 Violence and Aggression Policy Finalise the Violence and Aggression policy for implementation across Education establishments. The Promoting Positive Behaviour Policy within Children’s Services (SW) will be reviewed and monitored by the Clyde Valley Social Care sub group when any updates are available. November 2022 April 2023 Ongoing April 2024 Interim Head of Service is working on a revised policy on Violence and Aggression. Work has been ongoing within the service to review the existing policy. This review is involving trade union representatives from the JNC and the JCB, head teachers from primary and secondary, heads of establishments (Early Years). The agreed draft policy will then be further developed with both the management and union sides with focus groups of practitioners. Once this has been completed it will be brought to members. There will also be access to training throughout 2024/25 for staff members. 2. Mental Health Addressing Stress (Work and Non Work related) 2.1 Occupational Health Staff are informed by management that they can access the council’s occupational health services and counselling service “time for talking” and other relevant services. Corporate stress risk assessment template revised and issued January 2022. Mental Health first aiders contact list published on the staff info section of the website. April 2023 March 2024 Children’s Services disseminate all corporate communications regarding counselling services available to staff to all staff within the service. Line managers are asked to share this information with their staff. 2.2 Health Awareness Events The department will continue to support and promote council wide health awareness events and circulate information to staff. April 2023 March 2024 Children’s Services will continue to support Corporate health awareness campaigns and disseminate information across the workforce. 3.Hand Arm Vibration Syndrome (HAVS) 3.1 Information Awareness Education Support/ April 2023 April 2024 Resources Support Manager issued a reminder to Education Support Managers / Senior Service Delivery Page 181 of 503
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Managers are asked to remind staff who work with this type of risk to look out for symptoms and ensure annual risk assessments are completed. Referrals should be made to occupational health referral if required. Officers to ensure that staff who work in this area have appropriate risk assessment and training in place. 4.Fire Safety Management 4.1 Fire Risk Assessment In accordance with legislation fire risk assessments will be reviewed and revised as necessary to include assessment of PEEP (personal emergency evacuation plans) for staff, clients or frequent users of the service. 2 templates in existence (residential and non-residential). April 2023 March 2024 Education Support Managers, Senior Service Delivery Officers and House Manager’s are reminded annually of the requirement to review the Fire Risk Assessment and associated paperwork. 4.1 Fire Risk Assessment (cont) Education Support Managers / Senior Service Delivery Officers/Social Work Managers are asked to save their updated Fire Risk Assessment on an annual basis to the Teams page for HQ review. April 2023 March 2024 Complete 4.1 Fire Risk Assessment (cont) The monitoring of fire training within education and children’s services is the responsibility of establishment managers. April 2023 July 2023 Following the introduction of the Scottish Fire and Rescue’s “Unwanted Fire Alarm Service (UFAS)” procedures for non residential premises in July 2023, all educational establishments were provided with updated risk assessment templates for responding to alarm activations. Training on completion of fire related paperwork was offered to all schools by the corporate health and safety team. 5.Musculoskeletal and Joint Disorders 5.1 Manual Handling Ensure manual handling activities across education and children’s services have been identified and suitably risk assessed. April 2023 April 2024 Resources Support Manager issued a reminder to Education Support Managers / Senior Service Delivery Officers to ensure that staff who work carry out manual handing tasks to ensure they are appropriately trained. 6. Managing Contractors 6.1 Disruption Management Plan Resources Support Manager/Social Work Manager to work with project manager for any April 2023 March 2024 The Education Manager (Resources) works closely with the Property and Technical Services department to ensure a disruption management plan is developed for all property works carried out within Educational establishments. Page 182 of 503
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school/building adaptions / new builds to ensure that an adequate disruption management plan is in place. Head Teachers and Heads of Centre will ensure that all disruption management plans are shared with staff. Working at Heights Ensure Senior Facilities Operative informs contractors of working at height regulations when carrying out works within establishments. Education staff should be reminded of requesting assistance when working from height is required to display information on walls to ensure proper equipment is used. April 2023 February 2024 Complete An email reminder was sent out to all Education Support Managers / Senior Service Delivery Officers to ensure staff are reminded of the importance of ensuring Working at Height Guidance is followed. Resources Support Manager is a member of the corporate working at height group and will disseminate all relevant information to heads / managers. 7. Audits 7.1 Statutory Compliance Continue to have maintenance checks and remedial works carried out as per the Corporate Guidance on Statutory Inspections and maintenance. Establishments to record requests within electronic CAMIS system. April 2023 March 2024 Complete 7.2 General Risk Assessment Remind educational establishments/children’s services of the of risk assessments they have which require to be reviewed on annual basis April 2023 August 2023 In May 2023, HTs / Heads of Centre were asked to ensure precautions were taken due to extreme high temperatures being experienced. Safety Notice issued. At the beginning of school session 2023/2024, all head teachers were advised of the requirement to review the playground, security and flight risk paperwork. HTs / Heads of Centre were advised in November 2023 of the requirement to review their winter guidance and ice/snow risk assessment Page 183 of 503
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7.3 Display Screen Assessments Monitor the implementation and management of display screen equipment self assessments for employees. April 2023 April 2024 Corporate Health and Safety provide an update to the Children’s Services Health and Safety Committee with the number of staff who have completed their DSE Assessments. 8. Inspections 8.1 Establishment WOIR Inspections WOIR inspections in establishments to include education establishments joint inspection with trade union representatives. Ongoing - annual programme in place. WOIR to Include COVID Considerations April 2023 August 2024 Education Support Managers were reminded in August 2023, that all annual health and safety walk rounds should take place and TU reps should be invited to attend the walk round. 8.2 Audit of Children’s Services establishments by corporate health and safety team Audit of establishments by Health and Safety team to ensure safe working practices and compliance. April 2023 In School Session 2023/2024 the Resources Support Manager has visited educational establishments across the learning estate to support head teachers / heads of centres with Health and Safety concerns they have had. The Corporate Health and Safety team assist with these visits where required. 8.3 Audit of Children’s Services establishments by CS HQ The Resources Support Manager/ Quality Assurance & Practice Development Officer audit a selection of establishments risk assessments to ensure they are updated. April 2023 March 2024 Complete 9. Flight Risk 9.1 Supporting Establishments with Flight Risk Protocols The resources support manager will provide support to the Early Years Team to ensure appropriate risk assessments are in place for the risk of flight. Children’s Services (SW) will follow the agreed process with Police Scotland – “Looked After and Accommodated Children Who Go Missing From Residential & Foster Care in April 2023 April 2023 August 2023 March 2024 Updated Flight Risk Paperwork and Checklists issued to head teachers and heads of centres to heads were requested to share with all staff. Page 184 of 503
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Scotland” 10. Review of Health and Safety Standard Circulars 10.1 H&S Standard Circulars Weapons in Schools and Children’s policy document to be updated and include Children’s Services SW. April 2023 Delayed The policy has still to be worked on. This has been passed to Interim Head of Education for consideration. 11. Annual Update Children’s Services Incident Guidance 11.1 CS Incident Guidance Ensure an annual review is carried out to the CS Incident Guidance and re issued to all educational/children’s establishments. April 2023 February 2024 Resources Support Manager carried out a review of the CS Incident Guidance. The Incident Guidance is issued to all schools and ELCCs at the start of the new school session in August. 12. Business Continuity 12.1 Business Continuity Ensure the CS business continuity plan is updated to capture any health and safety events. April 2023 March 2023 Complete 13. Staff Training 13.1 Staff Training Organise a programme of technical refresher training for Technical Teachers and Technicians April 2023 December 2023 Resources Support Manager organised with Glasgow Clyde College Technical refresher training for all technical staff in secondary schools. 14. Health Care In schools – Emergency Salbutamol Inhalers 14.1 Emergency Salbutamol Inhalers Work with colleagues in NHS to establish a policy for educational establishments on the use of emergency salbutamol inhalers April 2023 March 2024 Resources Support Manager met with colleagues in Corporate Health and Safety to discuss the issue of stock inhalers being retained in school offices. Following discussions it was decided that the best approach was a reminder to parents / carers of pupils who require medicine throughout the school day to ensure that the school office / pupil has adequate supplies of medicines stored for use throughout the school day. Head Teachers / Heads of Centre were reminded that when taking pupils out on outings that all medicines should be taken with pupils. Page 185 of 503
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Page 1 of 5 To: Education and Children’s Services Policy Board On: 23 May 2023 ___________________________________________________________________ Report by: Director of Children’s Services ___________________________________________________________________ Heading: West Partnership Improvement Collaborative Update Report for 2024-25 and beyond ___________________________________________________________________ 1. Summary 1.1. Regional Improvement Collaboratives (RICs) were established in 2017 as a national initiative to bring about improvement for all schools in Scotland. They are intended to bring together local authorities and Education Scotland, facilitate collaborative working and provide educational support to practitioners. 1.2. The Glasgow City Region Education Improvement Collaboration, known as the West Partnership brings together eight authorities from across the Glasgow City Region; Renfrewshire is a member of the West Partnership. 1.3. To purpose of this paper is to inform the policy board of the plans for the West Partnership Regional Improvement Collaborative (RIC) following the national review of RICs undertaken by the Scottish Government and the associated reduction in funding for 2024-25 onwards. ___________________________________________________________________ 2. Recommendations 2.1. The Education and Children’s Services Policy Board is asked to note the report. ___________________________________________________________________ 3. Background 3.1. At the end of June 2023, the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills announced a rapid review of the impact that RICs have had on supporting pupils and practitioners. Item 11 Page 186 of 503
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Page 2 of 5 3.2. It was commissioned as part of the current education reforms, to inform future decisions on RIC support and further consideration of the future relationships between our new national bodies and local government in the area/s of educational improvement. This was the third review of RICs, with previous reports published 2019 and 2021. 4. Progress 4.1. The Scottish Government review was published in January 2024; the Executive Summary set out six key themes: • RIC engagement with, and support to, pupils and practitioners across early years, primary, special and secondary settings has continued to expand and deepen since the last evaluation of the RICs; • evaluation of RIC supports by practitioners who are directly engaged with RICs are consistently strong; • while, as with other parts of a complex system, the collective impact of RIC supports on improved outcomes for children and young people cannot be quantified, a wide and increasing range of practitioner and pupil programmes are clearly evidenced; • while the number of staff engaged in regional activities at any time remains a minority, support has continued to increase with evidence suggesting that approximately 30% of schools engaged in some form of RIC activity across a school year, whether directly or through supports provided to school leaders and practitioners; • the use of research, data and evidence to focus and shape RIC supports, including evaluation from practitioners and others, is evidenced strongly; and, • RICs have continued to strengthen collaboration across and between local authorities, between RICs and with other partners. 4.2. The review noted that across Scotland, RICs were engaging with approximately 30% of schools whilst accounting for 0.1% of education spending in Scotland. 4.3. Locally, the latest evidence demonstrates that during 2023-24 the West Partnership is reaching approximately 25% of staff across the region and has engaged with 87% of primary, secondary and special schools. In addition, qualitative evidence from the three workstreams continues to demonstrate how we have provided opportunities for collaboration and knowledge/confidence enhancement. 4.4. In a statement to Parliament in November 2023, the Cabinet Secretary indicated that in light of the review, the funding for RICs would be tapered, repurposing this funding to better support teachers in classrooms. Part of this change would include the setting up of the Centre for Teaching Excellence. Page 187 of 503
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Page 3 of 5 4.5. Funding for 2024-25 was clarified by the Scottish Government on 30 January 2024; RICs will be provided with 50% of the 2023-24 funding. For the West Partnership, this amounts to around £750k. 4.6. Following confirmation of the funding, the WP team have begun to finalise scenario planning to ensure the continuation of the highly effective programmes and networks on the 50% funding for the coming year. 4.7. Discussions with Directors and Chief Education Officers have highlighted the need for the West Partnership to continue to add value to the work of individual local authorities and to continue the focus on: • the aspiration to build a networked learning system across the West Partnership, thereby adding value to the work of individual local authorities; • continued buy-in to maintain a strong collective focus on pedagogy; and • support and scope for a flexible approach, to enable the participation of teachers, middle and senior leaders to shape and drive the work of the West Partnership more directly. 4.8. In planning for 2024-25 West Partnership officers are considering each programme, collaborative enquiry activity, professional learning activity and network against a set of criteria to establish which have the most significant impact and reach and where West Partnership activity is different from other local and national offers. As a RIC, we are currently in the process of developing more detailed plans setting out the themes that we will continue to collaborate on and how these will be supported strategically and operationally in 2024-25 and then beyond. 4.9. Part of these plans will be setting out the required staffing in terms of the West Partnership Core Team for 2024-25 and what this might look like in 2025-26 and beyond. 4.10. The analysis and evidence will be used to inform the West Partnership Improvement Plan for next year. This will be the subject of a future paper to the board. Given the reduction in funding and staff team, discussion is taking place nationally about the expectations in relation to planning and reporting. 4.11. An update on the priorities, governance and staffing model will be presented at the next Glasgow City Region Education Committee at the end of May 2024. Implications of this report 1. Financial The Scottish Government has made £6 million of funding available nationally to support the work of RICs for financial year 2023/24. In 2024-25 only 50% of this funding will be available; in 2025-26 no funding will be made available by the Scottish Government for RICs. The West Partnership’s has been provided with the same funding in 2023- 24 as 2022-23, a total of £1,515,500. In 2024-25 the West Partnership’s funding will be £757,750. Page 188 of 503
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Page 4 of 5 2. HR and Organisational Development None. 3. Community/Council Planning Our Renfrewshire is fair - The appendix details a range of activities which reflect local community planning themes Tackling inequality, ensuring opportunities for all - The appendix details a range of activities which reflect local community planning themes Working together to improve outcomes - The appendix details a range of activities which reflect local community planning themes 4. Legal None. 5. Property/Assets None. 6. Information Technology None. 7. Equality and Human Rights (a) The Recommendations contained within this report have been assessed in relation to their impact on equalities and human rights. No negative impacts on equality groups or potential for infringement of individuals’ human rights have been identified arising from the recommendations contained in the report because it is for noting only. If required following implementation, the actual impact of the recommendations and the mitigating actions will be reviewed and monitored, and the results of the assessment will be published on the Council’s website. 8. Health and Safety None. 9. Procurement None. 10. Risk None. 11. Privacy Impact None. 12. Cosla Policy Position Not applicable. Page 189 of 503
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Page 5 of 5 13. Climate Risk None. List of Background Papers (a) Background Paper 1: None. The foregoing background papers will be retained within children’s services for inspection by the public for the prescribed period of four years from the date of the meeting. The contact officer within the service is Lauren Johnston, Service Improvement Manager, 0141 618 4023, lauren.johnston@renfrewshire.gov.uk. ___________________________________________________________________ Author: Lauren Johnston, Service Improvement Manager, lauren.johnston@renfrewshire.gov.uk Page 190 of 503
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Page 1 of 6 To: Education and Children’s Services Policy Board On: 23 May 2024 __________________________________________________________________ Report by: Interim Head of Education __________________________________________________________________ Heading: Learning Estate Update __________________________________________________________________ 1. Summary 1.1 The purpose of this report is to provide members with a further update on current capital projects to develop and improve the learning estate, as well as providing a brief overview of the next steps of the Learning Estates Strategy under development. 1.2 A number of significant projects are underway to enhance the school estate, and this report will cover: • Paisley Grammar School Community Campus • Park Mains High School extension and alterations • New Dargavel Primary School • Dargavel Primary School internal alterations • Bishopton Primary School classroom block • Thorn Primary School new build • Castlehead roof strengthening works 1.3 The programme of work continues at pace and remains on track as per agreed timescales. Further detail of each project is provided within this report. 2. Recommendations 2.1. It is recommended that members note the content of this report. Item 12 Page 191 of 503
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Page 2 of 6 2.2. Members are asked to note the intent to construct a new Thorn Primary School on the grounds of the current school, following final assessment of the business case. 3. Paisley Grammar School Community Campus 3.1. This project will deliver a new state of the art education and community facility for Paisley Grammar School. The project to deliver a new Paisley Grammar school has made significant progress in recent months with the enabling works beginning on site in March 2024. This work will ensure all land is prepared and in a ‘construction ready’ state, ahead of the main works contract beginning on 17 June 2024. 3.2. The contract for the main works is going through final governance approvals currently, and will be announced imminently, to ensure the contractor can begin work on 17 June. 3.3. Whilst a series of public engagement has already taken place, officers will ensure that the school community, local community and elected members remain updated on progress through a communications plan. 4. Park Mains High School Extension and Adaptations 4.1. As reported to the last Policy Board, a series of space planning sessions have been undertaken to determine how the school could be increased to a 2,000 capacity school. This exercise has produced a model that is deliverable from a construction and education perspective. 4.2. The next steps of this exercise is to complete detailed cost planning on the proposed model to determine exact cost outturn, which is the standard process for all construction projects. 4.3. To ensure the model will deliver an excellent education experience, significant work has taken place with professional school space planners, the Head Teacher and senior management, as well as multiple information gathering and sharing exercises with staff. This has been supported by engagement sessions with parent council groups of both the secondary school, and all feeder primary schools. 4.4. The extended Park Mains High School is planned to deliver for summer 2027 in line with projections of increased demand. The project is currently finalising Stage 1 of the design and once agreed by the Learning Estates Programme Board, progress will be made with planning the procurement of a contractor and the remaining design stages. 4.5. A full engagement plan is being developed, and all stakeholders will remain fully updated with proposed plans and progress and will have opportunity to engage with plans. 4.6. Whilst this project is being delivered, the installation of temporary modular unit has been taking place at the school to deliver flexibility and an increase in space. This modular unit has delivered five additional classrooms, and is on Page 192 of 503
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Page 3 of 6 track to be handed over for use in June 2024. The final fit out of these classrooms is currently taking place. 5. New Dargavel Primary School 5.1. Under the Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010 the Council has completed a formal consultation on a proposal to establish a new primary school in Dargavel. A separate paper on this consultation has been provided to this Policy Board and therefore this paper will not address the detail of that consultation. 5.2. If a decision is made to proceed with delivering a new primary school in Dargavel, the Council has taken pro active steps to ensure a tight timescale for delivery can be achieved. This has included engaging with Hub West Scotland for an accelerated route to market for construction contractors and consultants to deliver a new school. Whilst no detailed work has been possible until the decision of the consultation is known, this approach will ensure that the project can hit the ground running. 5.3. Coupled with engagement of Hub West Scotland, the project team has also continued detailed information gathering with key stakeholders to ensure the brief and requirements of the new school are known. This will also include all feedback from public engagement throughout the course of the public consultation process. 5.4. It should also be noted that this project will continue to engage with the public and key stakeholders through the design stages of the project if agreement is made to proceed with the delivery of a new primary school in Dargavel. 5.5. Plans are in place to ensure that this school can be delivered for summer 2027 which matches the requirement for demand with roll projections. 6. Dargavel Primary School Internal Alterations 6.1. Following the opening of Dargavel Primary School, allowing time for staff and pupils to embed and get to know their school, a number of feedback points have been received. These matters have been addressed and has resulted in some internal alterations being planned for summer 2024. 6.2. This work will address noise disruption in some areas of the school, caused through the open plan nature of the design. The building warrant associated with these works has been approved and the contractor has completed some early work over the Easter holidays. The contractor is ready to commence the remainder of the work in the summer holidays this year. 6.3. These works seek to achieve better use of space in the school as well as improved educational experience for pupils through a reduction in noise. Page 193 of 503
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Page 4 of 6 7. Bishopton Primary School Classroom Block 7.1. Work to deliver an improved classroom block at Bishopton Primary School has been ongoing. This facility will provide a modern teaching environment and increased flexibility to the school. 7.2. Work remains on track for a handover of this facility during summer 2024 which will allow use from the new school year. 8. Thorn Primary School 8.1. The Council agreed under the previous School Estates Management Plan to invest £10million to deliver a new Thorn Primary School, with the intention for the balance of the funding required to be funded through the Learning Estate Investment Programme managed by the Scottish Futures Trust. 8.2. Following an unsuccessful funding bid, the Council agreed to apply additional funds to meet the budget gap to enable the delivery of this new school. This was provided with support from a business case which showed that the expected cost to deliver a refurbishment and extension to increase the condition and suitability of the school would cost circa. £10.8million compared to the indicative costs for a new build which would cost circa £14million. 8.3. On the balance of economic advantage and a much improved suitability of school through the delivery of a new build, the council agreed to fund this additonal budget requirement. 8.4. Members are asked to note the intention that upon initial site ivestigation to determine the viability of delvering a new school on the grounds of the current school, and on review of the business case, it is the intention to proceed with the delivery of a new build school for Thorn Primary. 8.5. The project remains at very early stages, and intial stakeholder engagement is being planned to ensure that all views are heard and can be appropriately implemented into the design of the new school where possible. 8.6. Current estimates project that a new school can be delivered by 2028. However, a full programme will be developed shortly, and will be shared with Elected Members and the community. 9. Castlehead Roof Strengthening Work 9.1. Following the discovery of reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete (RAAC) in the gym areas of Castlehead High School, a procurement exercise has been completed to appoint a contractor to undertake remedial strengthening works in these areas. 9.2. A contractor has been appointed and will commence work in early June 2024, with an expected contract period of 17 weeks. Throughout this process, the school and education management will continue to manage any disruption to staff and pupils. Page 194 of 503
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Page 5 of 6 9.3. This work will provide essential safety improvements and improve the condition of all gym areas in the school which will ensure that the space can be used safely with an improved experience for all. 10. School Estates Management Plan / Learning Estates Strategy 10.1. As previously agreed with this Board, a School Estates Management Plan will be provided to the August Policy Board. This plan is currently being worked on and will encompass the proposal for a new strategic model for how the school estate will be managed and improved going forward. 10.2. This strategy aims to produce a comprehensive model for future years to ensure that Renfrewshire can provide a high class education experience for all, and draws on many lessons learned from recent years. 10.3. Further communication will be shared with Members on this strategy prior to publication. Implications of this report 1. Financial This report is for noting and as such there no implications which arise directly from this report. 2. HR and Organisational Development None 3. Community/Council Planning Our Renfrewshire is thriving - The new learning environment will support learning and achievement for all. Our Renfrewshire is well - The new learning environment will support the Health and Wellbeing of all. Our Renfrewshire is safe - The new learning environment will provide safe and secure spaces for all users. Reshaping our place, our economy and our future - The new learning environment will provided spaces which support local enterprise. Building strong, safe and resilient communities - The new learning environment will provide spaces to support community activities. 4. Legal Renfrewshire Council adheres to all relevant legislation. Page 195 of 503
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Page 6 of 6 5. Property/Assets Through its school estate management plan the Council aims to have an efficient and well maintained property portfolio which provides learning environments which support the delivery of the curriculum. 6. Information Technology The new campus will have IT provision which supports digitally enabled learning. 7. Equality and Human Rights The Recommendations contained within this report have been assessed in relation to their impact on equalities and human rights. There has been a full Equalities and Human Rights Assessment carried out for the consultation process to ensure it is fully inclusive. No negative impacts on equality groups or potential for infringement of individuals’ human rights have been identified arising from the recommendations contained in the report. If required following implementation, the actual impact of the recommendations and the mitigating actions will be reviewed and monitored, and the results of the assessment will be published on the Council’s website. 8. Health and Safety None. 9. Procurement Renfrewshire Council adheres to all procurement regulations. 10. Risk A full risk register will be compiled for the project in accordance with the Council’s established risk management protocols. 11. Privacy Impact None. 12. Cosla Policy Position None. 13. Climate Risk The project aims to comply with the requirements for ambitious energy efficiency targets over the long term and to contribute to the Council’s net-zero commitments. Children’s Services JL/GL 10 May 2024 Author: Gerry Lyons, Interim Head of Education gerry.lyons@renfrewshire.gov.uk Page 196 of 503
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___________________________________________________________________ To: Education and Children’s Services Policy Board On: 23 May 2024 __________________________________________________________________ Report by: Director of Children’s Services _________________________________________________________________ Heading: Consultation arrangements regarding the proposal to establish a new primary school in Dargavel Village and a Catchment Review Affecting Dargavel Primary School and a new primary school to be built at Dargavel Village 1. Summary 1.1. At Education and Children’s services policy board on Thursday 18 January 2024, elected members agreed to proceed with a statutory consultation, in accordance with the Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010, on a proposal to establish a new primary school in Dargavel village. the proposal included a proposed site for the new primary school - an 8.5-acre site at the north end of Craigton drive (denoted as site 9 (E1) within the consultation proposal), and revised catchment areas for the existing Dargavel primary school and the proposed new school. The report confirmed an anticipated opening date for a new primary school by August 2027. 1.2. The Education and Children’s Services Policy Board also authorised the Director of Children’s Services, or another appropriate officer nominated by her, to take such action as is required to carry that consultation through to completion, in accordance with the legal requirements. 1.3. The Education and Children’s Services Policy Board also noted that provision for denominational pupils within Dargavel Village will remain unchanged within the St.John Bosco Primary School catchment area. 1.4. Officers confirmed that a report on the outcome of the consultation would be submitted to the education and children’s services policy board on 23rd May 2024. The consultation proposal and supporting information can be found at Appendix 1A. 1.5. The statutory consultation started on Monday 29 January, and ended on Tuesday 26 March and followed a period of pre-engagement space planning on a new primary school. The consultation was extensively promoted and Item 13 Page 197 of 503
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provided a programme of information events and public meetings to enable people to speak to council officers, to seek further information and to participate in the consultation which is expanded on in more detail in the main body of this report. In total, over 150 people attended consultation events, but many more completed the consultation survey. 1.6. Online Survey findings 1.6.1. At the close of the consultation, the council had received 848 responses to the online survey. After removing duplication, this reduced to 818 survey responses (817 online and one in paper form). Additionally, there were 15 responses by email from 13 people. A quantitative analysis was undertaken by Council Officers, with further qualitative analysis undertaken in two stages. An independent consultant was commissioned to provide sentiment analysis of the textual responses and to understand where there was most divergence of opinion and why. In addition, council officers provided a further analysis of all comments made by respondents to understand interdependencies and common themes. The detail of the analysis can be found in Appendices 1K and 1L. 1.6.2. The main findings confirm overwhelming support for a new school with 87.1% of all respondents in support. The proposed site split respondents almost evenly, with 40.6% opposition and 39.6% in support and 19.8% who did not express a preference. Analysis of the textual responses does not produce a clear alternative to the proposed site. The proposed catchment also split respondents with 44% (357) who strongly agree or agree with the proposed catchment, 43.6% (354) who did not express a preference and 12% (100) disagreed or strongly disagreed. 1.6.3. The most frequently mentioned topics raised in textual responses, within the scope of the consultation, include an urgent need for a new primary school and universal concerns regarding traffic and travel issues that need to be addressed. Over a third of respondents referenced high school provision as a pressing issue and although outwith the consultation scope, those responses have been recorded and detailed in the report. Other topics raised include ongoing frustration in relation to the Council’s previous error and concern about the Council’s current engagement, planning and decision-making processes in relation to the Dargavel development. An independent, qualitative analysis of the textual responses can be found at Appendix IK. 1.7. Education Scotland 1.7.1. In accordance with the terms of the Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010 (“the 2010 Act”), Education Scotland attended two public meetings that were part of the statutory consultation, and a Report was prepared by His Majesty’s Inspectors of Education (HM Inspectors). Their Report provides an independent and impartial consideration of the proposal to build a new primary school in Dargavel Village including the proposed site and proposed catchment review. Education Scotland were provided with the survey findings of the statutory consultation, feedback captured at Information Exchange Evenings and meeting minutes and a transcript of the recording of each of the two public meetings. Page 198 of 503
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1.7.2. Renfrewshire Council received the final report from Education Scotland on Monday 22 April, which confirmed HM Inspectors agree that the proposal has the potential to provide educational benefits and that a new primary school will address the need for increased non-denominational primary places in Dargavel Village. Additionally, the Report made recommendations to address that are consistent concerns raised by the community through the consultation and directly with Education Scotland. Those include providing safe active travel routes to the school, safely managing an increase in traffic at drop-off and pick-up times at both the new school and Dargavel Primary School, engaging with the community ongoing through the design and delivery of the new school, and ensuring contingency planning should the delivery of the new school be delayed. The Education Scotland report can be found at Appendix 1M. 1.8. The purpose of this report is to provide the policy board with an overview and analysis of the outputs from the consultation process and recommendations which are reflective of the key areas of concern provided in the course of the consultation exercise. The statutory consultation final report is included as Appendix 1 to this document and will be published on the Council website. All other relevant documents are appended to that report. _______________________________________________ ___________________ 2. Recommendations 2.1 The Education and Children’s services policy board is asked to: • Note the findings of the Statutory Consultation on a new primary school in Dargavel and the proposed changes to catchment areas, • Note the report by Education Scotland, prepared by His Majesty’s Inspectors of Education (HM Inspectors) in accordance with the terms of the Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010 (“the 2010 Act”). • Note the overwhelming support for a new school and HM Inspectors’ view that the Proposal has the potential to provide education benefits and address the under-provision within Dargavel Village. • Approve the proposed statutory consultation final report attached at appendix 1. • Agree that officers progress the procurement, design, and construction programme to deliver a new 800-capacity primary school, for opening in August 2027, on the proposed site ‘Site 9 – E1’, as denoted in the Statutory Consultation documentation and map. • Agree that officers progress planning for the implementation of the revised catchment arrangements within Dargavel Village to take effect from the operational opening of the new primary school. • Agree that officers will progress the following key areas of work: 1. In conjunction with the Dargavel community, prepare and implement a comprehensive engagement plan to ensure ongoing Page 199 of 503
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community engagement through the school design and planning processes. 2. Preparation of an integrated traffic and active travel plan as part of the design and delivery of the new school to alleviate community concerns relating to traffic congestion and safe active travel routes. Members note that such planning and preparation arrangements will be a requirement to support the statutory planning application for the new school. 3. Provide a report to a future Education and Childrens Services Policy Board on proposed contingency plans, should there be any delay to construction that would impact the anticipated August 2027 opening date. 4. Provide a report to a future Policy Board with detailed options and costs to deliver revised drop-off and pick-up area next to the current Dargavel Primary School. 5. Continue to engage with the community and work in an open and responsive way to plan for future secondary school provision. _____________________________________________ ___________ 3. Statutory consultation publicity and events 3.1. The statutory consultation started on Monday 29 January, and ended on Tuesday 26 March. This followed a period of pre-engagement that involved focus groups (24 individuals) and a resident survey (524 responses) to consider space planning for a new primary school and to consider the needs of pupils, parents, and carers, the wider community and school staff from the earliest outset. 3.2. Following the January Education and Children’s Services Policy Board, and to publicise the consultation, the Council wrote to local parents and members of the Dargavel community newsletter (519 individuals) to make them aware of the launch date on Monday 29 January. From 29 January, a comprehensive publicity plan was activated to promote a series of public information events and to encourage people to attend and to participate in the consultation. 3.3. All statutory consultees were contacted in writing with a link to a dedicated webpage and an invitation to attend the public events. These included parents and carers of pupils at Dargavel, Bishopton, St John Bosco primary schools; staff and trade unions at the affected schools; parent councils of those schools; elected members; the local community council and community planning partnership; community groups who use the existing Dargavel Primary School; and those who we expect may attend the new school - parents and carers at Dargavel early learning and childcare centre, families who had registered a child to start P1 at Dargavel Primary in summer 2024, and later in the process we contacted parents and carers living in Dargavel or Bishopton who had registered a child for a funded nursery place starting from summer 2023. We also issued emails to the heads of other private or partner nurseries in the areas with a request to share with their parents and carers. Page 200 of 503
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3.4. The consultation webpage on the council website included the formal proposal paper, supporting information and details of the planned information evenings, public meetings, and informal drop-in sessions, along with information on what the public could expect from each, and how to book. It also provided details of how members of the public could submit their views directly and an outline of the decision-making process which would follow the consultation. 3.5. Paper copies of the proposal paper and supporting information were made available at local schools, at Bishopton Library, and at council HQ at Renfrewshire House in Paisley. Parents at Dargavel and Bishopton Primaries were contacted directly by the schools to make them aware of the times where senior officers were hosting informal drop-in sessions at those schools. Public notices were also placed in the local media to advertise the consultation and public events. 3.6. Follow up communications to the groups listed above were activated on 8 February, 23 February, 13 March and 21 March. To help reach any groups not covered by the above or who are not online, the distribution of information flyers was organised in late February. This was issued to all postcodes for Dargavel and Bishopton Primary School catchment areas to encourage completion of the online survey. Posters covering the same information were also distributed to key venues throughout the community. 3.7. The public event programme was designed to be inclusive and accessible, ensuring several local touchpoints for the community, scheduled at various times, with opportunities to meet with senior officers and find out more about the proposal. The service sought advice on the design of the events from industry experts, The Consultation Institute, to ensure engagement was effective and could reach as many people as possible. In total, over 150 people attended an event within the programme: • Informal drop-in sessions for existing parents and carers at Dargavel and Bishopton Primaries (at school drop-off and pick-up times). These were attended by 40 people. • Four information exchange evenings at Dargavel Primary School to allow the community to meet senior officers in an informal setting and discuss topics like site selection, transport and travel, and school construction, capacity, and operations. Total attendance across the four sessions was 62. • Two public meetings took place where officers were able to feedback on issues raised at the information sessions and invite questions from the public. A representative from Education Scotland attended the meetings. Total attendance across the two events was 57. • Engagement took place at Dargavel Primary School and Bishopton Primary School with pupils and staff. • Meetings were also held with Dargavel Parent Council, Bishopton Parent Council, Bishopton Community Council, and representatives from Dargavel Residents Association Page 201 of 503
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___________________________________________________________________ 4. Analysis of the Key Findings 4.1. As mentioned in paragraph 4.5, an independent consultant was commissioned by Renfrewshire Council to provide a qualitative analysis of the textual responses within the consultation survey. This involved sentiment analysis and understanding the reasons for comments expressed and what particular positions or arguments might be most significant. This report can be found at Appendix 1K. In addition, a quantitative analysis was carried out by council officers (Appendix 1L) 4.2. The consultation questionnaire received a broad response with 818 surveys analysed (817 online surveys and one written survey). A further 13 people responded to the council by email (15) and those responses were included in the analysis. Most survey respondents did not attend an information exchange evening or a public meeting to seek more information from officers. 4.3. The analysis of responses considers both the content and sentiment of all comments without citing responses directly from respondents. The over- arching findings are as follows: • There is overwhelming support for a new school, with 87.1% of all respondents in support. 618 of those who responded ‘strongly support’ a new school (75.4% of all respondents) and another 96 (11.8%) ‘support’ it. The combined total of those who ‘oppose’ a new school is 77 (9.4%). • Views are almost evenly split on the proposed site for a new school, with those who ‘disagree’ or ‘strongly disagree’ marginally exceeding the number ‘agreeing’ or ‘strongly agreeing’ and a substantial number who did not express a preference. 40.6% of respondents stated they were against the proposed site (331) and 39.6% stated they were for the proposed site (323), a difference of 1%. 19.8% (161) identified themselves as ‘neither agreeing nor disagreeing’ with the proposed site. • Across all consultation responses, here is no widespread consensus on an alternative site. 313 respondents to the consultation (38%) made an alternative site suggestion when prompted, with 196 people (24%) referencing a specific site or location: • 119 (14.6%) referenced the Slateford Road area. This included those specifically stating Sites 22 or 23 – currently identified as greenbelt, and those whose site or area description could reasonably be assumed to identify Sites 22 or 23. Of those, 105 of these respondents had previously stated they disagreed or strongly disagreed with the proposed site for a new primary school. • 77 (9.4%) respondents suggested one of 21 other specific sites or locations as alternatives to consider. • A further 117 (14%) respondents made a general location comment or indicated a site characteristic e.g. ‘in Bishopton’ or ‘further away’. Page 202 of 503
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Those who agree with the proposed site opposed alternative sites for reasons such as accessibility and deliverability, particularly those encroaching on green spaces or located outside of Dargavel Village. • More people support the proposed catchment than those who are opposed and an equal number expressed no preference. The proposed catchment split respondents with 44% (357) who ‘strongly agree’ or ‘agree’ with the proposed catchment and 43.6% (354) who did not express a preference. 12% (100) ‘disagreed’ or ‘strongly disagreed’. • There is consensus amongst respondents on important issues that must be resolved by the council to ensure that a new primary school fully meets the needs of the school community and wider community, and on the need to provide reassurance that demand for secondary provision will be fully and appropriately met. These topics and concerns were expressed by respondents regardless of their support for a new primary school or preference (or stated no preference) for where the school is located. • By far the most frequently expressed opinion - by all those who responded to the survey, is the urgent need for a new school to meet rising demand. Respondents highlighted the pressing need for more primary places to be provided within the catchment to avoid children being separated and schooled at various primary schools with capacity. • 36% of all respondents (296) either reference or are advocating for a new high school/shared campus whether they agreed/strongly agreed (67) or disagreed/strongly disagreed (172) with the proposed site or have no preference (57). The sentiment behind this was strongly expressed. Of the 172 who reference high school/shared campus and disagree with the proposed site, 60 referenced the Slateford Road area as their alternative. • There are frequently expressed concerns about safe travel and traffic linked to the proposed site. 35% of all respondents (288) expressed this concern whether they agreed/strongly agreed (49) or disagreed/strongly disagreed (197) with the proposed site or have no preference (42). This concern was strongly expressed. Conversely, many of those who support the proposed site have said they believe it will ease traffic congestion by reducing cross-travel from the north of the development and will be more walkable and central to catchment, and therefore increase active travel. • Issues continue to be raised with the council’s (current and previous) planning, governance, and transparency in relation to the school provision in Dargavel. • Respondents in all groups expressed the importance of ensuring community amenity within the new school. The design and operation of the school must ensure the community have access for community use. • Smaller groups highlighted various topics and issues such as noise and light pollution, needing the proposed site for housing, or the loss of a Central Park – though there is no proposal to locate the school on the Central Park. _ Page 203 of 503
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• Those who disagreed or strongly disagreed with the proposed site (331 respondents) were asked to provide a reason for their answer. Those who subsequently responded, cited the following reasons: • 67% are concerned about traffic, congestion, parking, other road infrastructure and associated issues with safety of children as their main reason for disagreement and do not believe their concerns have yet been addressed in relation to the proposed site. • 19% are advocating for a new high school/campus and would prefer an alternative site to accommodate this. • 7.9% remain concerned about the council’s governance, planning and decision making in relation to school provision for Dargavel Village. • 5.7% want the new school to be either co-located with the current primary school or close to it (including the possibility of rebuilding the current school). __________________________________________________________________ 5. Addressing and providing reassurance on common issues raised 5.1. The most common issues that have emerged from the consultation process and reflected in the recommendations made by Education Scotland, are concerns within the community. Respondents express significant strength of feeling when citing those issues. However, there is confidence that such issues can be fully addressed to alleviate understandable community concerns and the council is committed to doing everything it can to do so. 5.2. Urgent need for a new school to meet rising demand 5.2.1. Subject to the outcome of the statutory consultation, officers have confirmed a programme timeline to meet an August 2027 opening date. Hub West Scotland have been engaged to deliver the project and have been progressing a wide range of planning activities to support delivery of a new school for some time. The Hub West Scotland model, procurement process and pre-established supply chain arrangements supports tighter procurement and delivery programme than a traditionally delivered project. Based on planning arrangements progressed to date and progress being made by BAE systems in respect to delivery of remediation and infrastructure programming, there remains confidence that the August 2027 date continues to be a deliverable timeline for the project. 5.3. Safe active travel and traffic/congestion concerns 5.3.1. Road traffic volumes, congestion concerns and the availability of safe active travel routes to the existing and the proposed new school site were the most recurring and consistent themes of concern expressed during the consultation events with the local community. Page 204 of 503
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5.3.2. It was anticipated that concerns of this nature were likely to emerge through the consultation process based on the extent they had featured in earlier pre- engagement activity carried out by officers with the community. In this context a planned independent transport and travel study was commissioned (carried out by Stantec) in January 2024 to assess both the existing situation within the development and to model the impact of the proposed new school site on the capacity of the transport infrastructure across the Dargavel village as it is completed. 5.3.3. The traffic modelling undertaken as part of the study provided reassurance that that the existing road infrastructure planned to be delivered by BAE systems will accommodate the additional traffic that will be generated by trips to and from both primary schools without any capacity issues arising on either the overall road network, or with traffic volumes passing through key junctions in the development. This provides a level of assurance that the flow of traffic within the development will not experience congestion issues due to capacity demand linked to peak school time travel. 5.3.4. The Stantec study also explored considerations in respect to traffic related issues in and about the immediately vicinity of both schools, which can present different challenges beyond overall road and junction capacity. The study assessed the travel modes currently used to access Dargavel Primary School, noting that existing active travel to the school already performs comparably with the Renfrewshire primary school average as summarised below: • The overall proportion of pupils walking or using park and stride to get to school is lower than the Renfrewshire average, but the proportion cycling and scooting / skating is higher meaning that the overall proportion of pupils using active travel is 69%, the same as the Renfrewshire average. • The proportion of pupils being driven to school is slightly less than the Renfrewshire average at 21%, compared to 24%. Mode Share Comparison versus Renfrewshire Average Page 205 of 503
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5.3.5. In relation to those driving to the school, Stantec traffic surveys and monitoring identified a high proportion navigating into the school car park and making use of the drop-off area and not staying for long – as the school design intended. However, they also monitored some cars parking, pavement mounted on the north side of Arrochar Drive between the school “keep clear markings” and the signalised junction with Barrangary Road. This results in Arrochar Drive being reduced to effectively one vehicle lane in this area, with a requirement for “give and go”, and with the parking impinging on pedestrian use of footpaths and clear lines of visibility. Similarly, drivers were also seen park on the footways within the residential streets accessed off Arrochar Drive, blocking walking routes and again impinging on pedestrians. 5.3.6. The Stantec study notes however that the existing primary school is currently supporting housing across the whole development area, including a significant proportion of housing to the north of the development that is beyond a 15-minute walking distance from the school. It also noted housing to the north of the development is impacted by incomplete travel infrastructure that will eventually link the north of the village to the south of the development where the school is located. Additionally, Arrochar Drive is currently operating as a no through road, as the internal loop (Western Link Road) has not been fully constructed. It is expected that the WLR will be constructed by BAE by October 2025. The Stantec study notes that the absence the completed loop road (WLR) has likely encouraged more driven trips and traffic to and from the existing school from housing sites on the north side of the village and that some of the existing traffic issues associated with a high number of car-based trips to and from Dargavel Primary School are exacerbated by these factors. 5.3.7. This undoubtedly contributes to existing issues with vehicle parking around the current school location and this is reflected in the concerns expressed by the community through the consultation response in relation to traffic and safe active travel routes to school. 5.3.8. It is critical moving forward that effective engagement and communication is maintained with the community to evidence that a second school at site E1 and the existing Dargavel Primary school will provide school facilities that are highly connected to their associated catchments and that those connections represent a safe environment for travelling to and from the school sites, irrespective of the mode of travel chosen. 5.3.9. It is critical to consider how in the short-term traffic issues at the current school can be resolved and to ensure that concerns relating to traffic congestion and safe active travel linked to the new school’s proposed location can be adequately and appropriately addressed in the design and delivery planning of the new school. 5.3.10. First and foremost, it is important to recognise that delivery of the second school and implementation of the revised catchments changes, along with delivery of the full village infrastructure (both road and active travel) by BAE Systems will deliver high active travel connectivity and travel times to both schools. Page 206 of 503
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5.3.11. Dargavel Primary School’s catchment will significantly reduce in geographical size and the positioning of site E1 was selected specifically to maximise the opportunity to deliver the shortest active travel distances within its catchment. Detailed travel modelling has been completed by Stantec that confirms the following active travel times for both schools. 5.3.12. This modelling confirms that both schools will have short commute times, providing a high level of opportunity for active travel to school and reduced need for travel by car. As outlined above, the existing school catchment by contrast has a significant proportion of houses materially outwith a 15- minute walking distance which Stantec have noted this will likely have encouraged a greater level of travel by car. 5.3.13. In addition, officers have engaged with Stantec during the course of their study to review a number of considerations that would further enhance safe active travel to both schools, improve arrangements for drop-off and pick-up by car at Dargavel Primary School and identify design factors to be carefully considered in the delivery of a new school on the proposed site. It will be critical such issues are progressed in a manner which aligns with the overall communication and engagement plan set out in the recommendations. 5.3.14. Engagement with BAE Systems is underway to jointly progress planning access and travel routes for the new school site as part of the school and site design. This will carefully consider planned and enhanced active travel infrastructure that BAE Systems will deliver and the design of a school site with multiple access and egress points to minimise distances to housing developments in the surrounding catchment area. 5.3.15. In addition, it will be critical for there to be coordinated and pro-active joint travel planning between both primary schools and the community to support and champion active travel arrangements. 5.3.16. It is accepted that travel by car is unavoidable for some parents and carers at drop-off and pick-up times and adequate design and capacity for parking and drop-off/pick-up arrangements is a key requirement that will be planned into the new school site design, informed by best practice design principles, community engagement and from learning from other similar school sites across the country. This will include exploring traffic control measures in and Page 207 of 503
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around the immediate vicinity of the school. Demonstrating well developed, assessed and appropriate arrangements for traffic and travel to and from the school site will be a key requirement that will support the statutory planning application. 5.3.17. In addition, and in recognition of the observed issues being experienced at the current school site, officers are progressing an option appraisal for improved drop-off and pick-up arrangements utilising the flexibility provided through available land secured from BAE systems adjacent to Dargavel Primary School whilst wider travel infrastructure is completed by BAE Systems and revised catchments are implemented as the new school is delivered. A report in this regard will be brought back to the Education and Childrens Services Policy Board for consideration. 5.4. Ensure community amenity and community access within the new school 5.4.1. Pre-engagement space planning captured the overwhelming support from the community to deliver a school with the highest quality learning environment and which supports flexible community use outwith school hours (98% of those involved in pre-engagement supported the community having access to the school for a variety of activities – outdoor sport, fitness and exercise classes, social activities, children and toddler groups, adult learning classes, health and wellbeing support. 5.4.2. Officers can confirm this will be integral to the design, and a full size, floodlight synthetic sport pitch with changing facilities is incorporated into the planned school provision and site 9 E1 provides sufficient flexible land to support community facilities. Further engagement with the community, including local groups and sports clubs will take place during the design process to maintain focus on community demand. In addition, following feedback from the Dargavel community through the consultation process, officers are working with the community to determine the best route to support and meet community sports pitch needs whilst the new school-based facility is delivered, and this will include consideration of how other existing pitch provision can be best utilised to meet current and future need. 5.5. High school provision/joint campus development – Outwith scope of consultation 5.5.1. High school provision is not within the scope of the consultation. However it is recognised that officers must continue to engage the community and work in an open and responsive way to plan for future secondary school provision . A new high school or joint primary/secondary campus were referenced by over a third of respondents as important considerations for the Council, and this included those who support the proposal for a new primary school on the proposed site. Importantly, future high school provision for west Renfrewshire is integral to the Council’s strategic learning estate review which will consider long term demand profiles across Renfrewshire, as well as renewal and replacement priorities and options for the primary and high school estate across Renfrewshire. An engagement programme will support this long-term review and will ensure the views of all communities are represented, including Dargavel and Bishopton communities. This includes existing and ongoing engagement in relation to the plans to extend Park Mains High School and the Page 208 of 503
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regular updating of school rolls and long term school roll projections for Park Mains High School and implications of these.. 5.5.2. It should be noted that concerns have also been expressed by the wider Park Mains High School community who are not statutory consultees in relation to this primary provision consultation. Those concerns related specifically to a desire not to impede the progress of the current project to extend Park Mains High School. 5.5.3. While officers progress the agreed work programme to extend Park Mains High School - the confirmed catchment school for Dargavel and Bishopton, it is fully accepted that there is a critical need to provide transparent and regular updates to the wider community on updated school rolls and projections, to provide the required reassurance that high school capacity will provide sufficient spaces for all children living in the catchment in the long term. The established Park Mains Parent Council Liaison Group has and will continue to be the main forum for cascade of information and feedback from the communities of each catchment primary school. This will include ongoing engagement to inform the programme to extend the school. 5.5.4. To date, through the Park Mains High School space-planning process, consultants have worked with community members, school staff, pupils and parents and carers to make sure views were captured as part of that process. This covered how the existing building is currently used, satisfaction levels with the current building, views on different types of learning space and what building users would like to see from an extended Park Mains. Over 560 individuals completed surveys and 43 took part in focus groups. The school design team and construction contractors have been confirmed and appointed and work is continuing to meet the agreed August 2027 delivery date. 5.6. Effective community engagement and transparent planning and decision- making 5.6.1. There is still an important journey to repair and rebuild the council’s relationship with the local community. The process of consultation, outlined in the report, provided numerous touchpoints to listen to the community and provide deeper understanding of local concerns and challenges. Although there are groups within the community who remain understandably angry towards the council and sceptical of programme planning and delivery, there is a wider community who are willing to work closely with the council to deliver improvements for the community ongoing. It is vitally important the council works strategically to engage those individuals and groups, use existing forums and networks across the community, and provide genuine opportunities for collaboration. This will include ongoing sharing and scrutiny of roll projection data and agreeing an established mechanism for ongoing engagement on active travel and traffic, high school transport, school design, including ASN (Additional Support Needs) provision and wider community needs. Page 209 of 503
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___________________________________________________________________ Implications of the Report 1. Financial The cost to delivery of a second school within Dargavel village has been incorporated into the Council’s medium term financial planning arrangements as reported to Council as part of regular medium term financial outlook reports. 2. HR & Organisational Development - None. 3. Community/Council Planning: Our Renfrewshire is thriving Our Renfrewshire is fair Reshaping our place, our economy, and our future Building strong, safe, and resilient communities Creating a sustainable Renfrewshire for all to enjoy Working together to improve outcomes - The revised catchment areas and approval of site will give clarity to the community and enable the new building to have a positive start. - The process is designed to ensure everyone can give their views and have them heard. - The catchment review informs the development of the new building - There is a clear consideration given to safe travel - The site evaluations had sustainability and green space as a clear focus - Ensuring children have a high quality and sustained primary education is at the core of the process 4. Legal This proposal adheres to the procedures required to take forward any proposal in terms of the Schools (consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010 amended through the enactment of the Children and Young People (Scotland) Act 2014. 5. Property/Assets Through its school estate management plan the council aims to have an efficient and well maintained property portfolio which provides learning environments which support the delivery of the curriculum. 6. Information Technology Page 210 of 503
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Effective IT infrastructure within schools contributes to the development of digital literacy and state of the art technology supports learning experiences and the creation of new and diverse skills. 7. Equality & Human Rights An Equality Impact Assessment has been carried out to support the consultation process, ensuring that equalities considerations were taken into account in the design and delivery of the consultation. In line with the Council’s approach, a summary of this impact assessment will be published on the Council’s website with a full version available on request. The Board report refers to a number of key early considerations raised through the consultation process, including meeting the needs of children and young people with Additional Support Needs, considering the changing demographics of relevant catchment areas and delivering a comprehensive and inclusive engagement plan to ensure ongoing community engagement through the school design and planning processes. Further Equality Impact Assessments will be carried out as appropriate throughout the lifecycle of this proposal to pay due regard to equality and human rights considerations. 8. Health & Safety - None. 9. Procurement – As outlined in the report it is planned to deliver the new school through Hub West Scotland. 10. Risk - None. 11. Privacy Impact - None. 12. Cosla Policy Position – None. 13. Climate Risk A Climate Risk Strategy will be developed to address the design, procurement, construction and ‘in use’ phases of the project. _________________________________________________________ List of Background Papers ___________________________________________________________________ Author: Gerry Lyons, Interim Head of Education, gerry.lyons@renfrewshire.gov.uk 10/05/2024 Page 211 of 503
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Appendices Contents Page A. Statutory Consultation Final Report B. Information session brochure C. Records of drop in session D. Points raised at info sessions E. Minutes of 2 public meetings F. Transcript of 2 public meetings G. Record of meeting with Bishopton Parent Council H. Record of meeting with Dargavel parent council I. Minute of Bishopton Community Council J. The spreadsheet of all text responses K. Peter McColl’s report - Qualitative Analysis: RESPONSES TO THE DARGAVEL SCHOOL CONSULTATION, Peter McColl Ltd. L. Summary of Key Issues M. Education Scotland Report Page 212 of 503
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1 Appendix 1 RENFREWSHIRE COUNCIL CHILDREN’S SERVICES STATUTORY CONSULTATION FINAL REPORT • Proposal: The establishment of a new primary school to be built at Dargavel Village on an 8.5 acre site at the north end of Craigton Drive and • a Catchment Review Affecting Dargavel Primary School and a new primary school to be built at Dargavel Village This document has been issued by Renfrewshire Council in terms of the Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010, as amended. This Report includes: 1. Introduction and background to the statutory consultation 2. The Statutory Consultation and Community Engagement activities 3. On Line Questionnaire - Quantitative analysis of Likert Scale Questions responses 4. Online Questionnaire – Main issues and concerns identified in Likert Scale Questions responses 5. Summary of main issues and Council response 6. Report from Education Scotland 7. Council Response to the Issues raised by Education Scotland 8. Summary 9. Equality Statement Page 213 of 503
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2 1. INTRODUCTION/BACKGROUND TO THE STATUTORY CONSULTATION PROCESS 1.1 On the 18th January 2024, the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board approved a statutory consultation on a proposal to establish a new non- denominational primary school in Dargavel, the site of the proposed new building to be an 8.5 acre site at the north end of Craigton Drive, and to consult on revised catchment areas for the existing Dargavel primary school and the proposed new school. 1.2 The Education and Children’s Services Policy Board also authorised the Director of Children’s Services, or another appropriate officer nominated by her, to take such action as is required to carry that consultation through to completion, in accordance with the legal requirements. 1.3 The Education and Children’s Services Policy Board also noted that provision for denominational pupils within Dargavel Village will remain unchanged within the St.John Bosco Primary School catchment area. 1.4 The statutory consultation was launched on January 29th 2024 and was concluded on March 26th 2024. This was an 8-week consultation period which goes beyond the minimum six-week period which is a requirement of the Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010 as amended. 2. THE STATUTORY CONSULTATION AND COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT ACTIVITIES 2.1 Renfrewshire Council consulted in line with the requirements of the Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010 as amended. This requires that local authorities adopt a robust and transparent framework for consultations on major changes to the education estate, for example, catchment areas. The process requires authorities to actively involve and consult with all stakeholders and other school users. The local authority is required to include an educational benefit statement – that is, the local authority must produce a statement setting out its assessment of the effects on children and young people and other users of an affected establishment. There is a minimum six week term-time consultation period. 2.2 The report to the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board included as an appendix the proposal paper. This included: • the legal procedure for a public consultation over a new school • the reasoning behind our proposal, and the options we looked at when developing it • our educational benefits statement • the issues we considered when looking at possible sites for the new school • a list of streets affected by the proposed changes to the catchment. Page 214 of 503
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3 2.3 In advance of the consultation launch Renfrewshire Council put in place a comprehensive communication and engagement plan. This had three key aims, to: • deliver a comprehensive public consultation which gave all interested parties the chance to express their views • help create a well-informed discussion around key issues affecting the future of primary school provision in the area • demonstrate the council’s willingness to hear directly from the local community on their views around future school provision 2.4 Some community engagement work had already taken place prior to this point, which was used to help inform the consultation content. 2.5 Space planning for a proposed new primary school took place over several months in late 2023. This aimed to capture the views of the local community and other key stakeholders on what they wanted from a new school building, to help inform the brief for the design. This included an online community survey, which received 524 responses, and focus groups with local community and parent groups. 2.6 The space-planning process was able to build on community feedback, received over the course of the previous year through a number of public meetings and forums, which indicated a very strong desire for a new primary school situated within the centre of the village, which would also provide community facilities after the school day. 2.7 Communication actions undertaken as part of this included: • Pre-consultation communication o In advance of the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board in January, Renfrewshire Council wrote to local parents, members of our opt-in Dargavel community email list, and key stakeholders to make them aware the consultation was on the agenda. o The Council did this again after the meeting to let them know councillors had given approval to proceed and that there would be communication once the consultation launched on Monday 29 January. • Dedicated consultation webpage o A dedicated webpage was created in advance of the launch. This included: o Information on what was being consulted on and why o A link to the formal proposal paper o Details of the planned information evenings, public meetings, and informal drop-in sessions, along with information on what the public could expect from each, and how to book these. o Details of how members of the public could submit their views directly Page 215 of 503
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4 o An outline of the decision-making process which would follow the consultation. o A link was later added to the supplementary information created for the public information sessions, covering the outputs from existing engagement with the school community from the space-planning exercise carried out in late 2023, further information on the process to select the proposed site, and transport and travel links. • Initial message to all statutory consultees o When the consultation was launched on Monday 29 January, the council wrote to all statutory consultees with a link to the above webpage and an invitation to attend the public events. These included: o parents and carers of pupils at affected schools (Dargavel, Bishopton, St John Bosco) o staff and trade unions at the affected schools o parent councils of those schools o elected members o the local community council and community planning partnership o community groups who use the existing Dargavel Primary School • The council also wrote to those who we expect may attend the new school. This included: o a text message to parents at Dargavel ELCC o an email to the opt-in Dargavel community newsletter list. This was created for anyone with an interested in school facilities in the area who we wouldn’t otherwise reach (as of 29 January 2024, this had 519 subscribers) o an email to the 141 families who had registered a child to start P1 at Dargavel Primary in summer 2024 o emails to the heads of other private or partner nurseries in the area with a request to share with their parents and carers • Paper copies of the proposal paper and supporting information were made available at local schools, at Bishopton Library, and at council Headquarters at Renfrewshire House in Paisley. • Parents at Dargavel and Bishopton Primaries were also contacted directly by the schools to make them aware of the times where senior officers were hosting informal drop-in sessions at those schools. • Further messages to the community: o The Council wrote again to the key groups listed above on several further occasions during the consultation to help us maximise engagement. This included: Page 216 of 503
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5 o 8 February – reminder message asking residents to sign up for the public events (which ran between 14 February and 5 March) o 23 February – message to let community know the online survey had been launched. o 13 March – a further reminder to fill out the survey, with our response to some of the key issues raised at the public meetings, and a reminder of the next steps. o 21 March – a message to remind community members the consultation had less than a week to go, with a final reminder to fill out the survey before it closed • The Council also wrote to the parents living in Dargavel or Bishopton who had registered a child for a funded nursery place starting from summer 2023 to invite them to take part in the survey. • To help us reach any groups not covered by the above or who are not online, we organised a direct distribution of fliers to all postcodes for Dargavel and Bishopton PS catchment areas in late February. This directed them to the webpage for more information, to the online survey to submit their views, and to where in the local area paper copies of the materials could be found. Posters covering the same information were also distributed to key venues throughout the community. Public Events 2.8 The Council hosted a series of public events, designed to give members of the local community the chance to meet the senior officers involved and find out more about the proposal. This included: • a series of informal drop-in sessions for existing parents and carers at Dargavel and Bishopton Primaries (at school drop-off and pick-up times), to allow them to talk to senior officers. 40 parents attended these sessions. • Four information sessions were held at Dargavel Primary. These were designed to allow community members to meet senior officers in an informal setting and discuss topics like site selection, transport and travel, and school construction, capacity and operations. Total attendance across the four sessions was 62. • Display boards were created for these information sessions which covered outputs from engagement which had already taken place, including: o what people had said pre-engagement through the space planning public survey for the new school. o based on that, plans and images showing examples of how it might look o a map of all sites considered for the new school, including those suggested by the community, and analysis of how each was assessed and scored Page 217 of 503
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6 o active travel and school access considerations • Two public meetings took place where officers were able to feedback on issues raised at the information sessions and invite questions from the public. Total attendance across the two events was 57. Meetings with statutory consultees 2.9 Meetings were also held with the following statutory consultee groups: o Dargavel Primary Parent Council o Bishopton Primary Parent Council o Primary 5 -7 children in Bishopton Primary o Primary 4-7 children in Dargavel Primary o Staff of Bishopton Primary o Staff of Dargavel Primary o Individual meetings with ward elected members o Bishopton Community Council o Dargavel Residents Association 2.10 The statutory consultation period concluded on 26 March 2024. 2.11 As part of the consultation process, officers ensured that the views and opinions of respondents were given due consideration. In order to ensure a rigorous and through examination of the responses received, senior members of Children’s Services read every response to validate key aspects of responses and ensure all key issues were identified. 2.12 To provide rigour to the consideration of views and opinions of respondents, there was a 2 stage qualitative analysis of all textual responses to identify sentiment, strength of feeling and where comments, concerns and suggestions carried real weight of argument. This provides a robust understanding of community feeling. Stage 2 was carried out by council officers analysing the comments across all questions and all views to establish the most thorough possible understanding of the views expressed in the consultation, Appendix B and C. 2.13 Officers performed quantitive analysis to understand percentage of respondents expressing a view and ensuring these were recorded and categorised. This ensured alignment with the themes identified with the consulates analysis and also the feedback received through the engagement process. 2.14 In a major consultation, there is the provision to update the formal proposal document if information is found to be inaccurate or missing. Two minor inaccuracies were identified and updated during the consultation period: I. In the site matrix, the scoring of two sites were not included. A correction notice was issued on the website and officers wrote to all statutory consultees to inform them of the change and the issue of the correction notice. Page 218 of 503
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7 II. In the catchment areas, there were two streets included in the catchment area for the new Dargavel Primary school which should have been included in the catchment area for Bishopton primary and two streets without residences. The catchment areas were adjusted accordingly. 3. RESPONSES RECEIVED – ANALYSIS OF RESPONSES 3.1 There were a total of 817 responses to the questionnaire. The substantive questions were as follows (one question asked for postcode). Question 1: Please confirm you have read the statutory consultation document (full document) 75 respondents said they had not read the document. The other 743 said they had. Question 2: Which of the following best describes your interest in this consultation? 584 Resident Parent/Carer 167 Resident of Renfrewshire 45 42 Pupil of affected school Other Page 219 of 503
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8 Question 3: Please indicate whether you are happy for your comments to be made public? 380 asked for their comments not to be shared and two did not answer this question. As a result their comments are omitted from publication but were included in the analysis. 436 expressly consented to their comments being made public. Quantitative Responses This section of the analysis focuses on the questions where the answers were on the Likert Scale, going from Strongly Agree to Strongly Disagree – Questions 1-4; Question 6 and Question 7. Question 4: To what extent do you agree a new primary school should be built in Dargavel Village? Their responses are presented in the chart below: Page 220 of 503
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9 • Strongly Agree: A significant majority – 618 respondents, strongly agree with the proposition of building a new primary school. • Agree: 96 respondents agree with the proposal. • Neither Agree nor Disagree: 25 respondents have a neutral stance on the issue. • Disagree: 28 respondents disagree with the proposal • Strongly Disagree: 49 respondents are strongly against the proposal, indicating a notable segment of respondents with strong reservations or opposition. Question 6: To what extent do you agree the school should be built on the proposed 8.5-acre site at the north end of Craigton Drive? There were 172 responses strongly agreeing with the site proposed for the primary school, 151 agreeing, 161 who indicated they neither agreed nor disagreed and 3 who left this box blank, and 127 who disagreed with the site, a further 204 strongly disagreed with the site. These figures are represented in the following chart 49, 6% 28, 3% 25, 3% 96, 12% 618, 76% To what extent do you agree a new primary school should be built in Dargavel village 1. Strongly disagree 2. Disagree 3. Neither agree or disagree 4. Agree 5. Strongly agree (blank) Page 221 of 503
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10 Question 7: To what extent do you agree with the proposed catchment area for the existing Dargavel Primary School and the new school? The overwhelming response to this question was ‘neither agree nor disagree’ reflecting its subordinate status to other questions about whether to build a new school and where that school should be sited. There were 99 respondents who strongly agreed with the proposed catchment, 258 who ‘agreed’, 354 who neither agreed nor disagreed. There were 49 respondents who disagreed and 51 who strongly disagreed. 204, 25% 127, 16% 161, 20% 151, 18% 171, 21% To what extent do you agree the school should be built on the proposed 8.5 acre site at the north end of Craigton Drive 1. Strongly disagree 2. Disagree 3. Neither agree or disagree 4. Agree 5. Strongly agree (blank) 258, 32% 49, 6%354, 44% 99, 12% 51, 6% To what extent do you agree with the proposed catchment areas for the existing Dargavel Primary School and the proposed new school? Agree Disagree Neither agree nor disagree Strongly agree Strongly disagree (blank) Page 222 of 503
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11 4. ONLINE QUESTIONNAIRE – FOLLOW UP COMMENTS 4.1 This section provides a collation of the most significant issues in the comments explaining the responses to the Likert scale questions. 4.2 All comments have been independently analysed in the process described earlier in this report. The reports of these analysis is attached as appendix K and appendix L. 4.3 For the full details of the comments and points raised, please see these reports. 4.4 The main issues and concerns identified by the consultants analysis: Proposal 1 – Building of a new school 1. Population Growth 2. Planning Issues 3. Community Impact and Quality of Life 4. Urgency to delivery primary capacity. 5. Respondents didnt feel qualified to express a view. Proposal 2 – Site of new school 1. Traffic and Travel a. Traffic congestion b. Safety concerns – children and pedestrians c. Traffic management plan d. Concerns about arrangements for active travel 2. Location preference and justification 3. Critiques of consultation process 4. Long term educational planning – joint campus and secondary provision 5. Concerns about division within the area caused by two schools in the one area. Proposal 3 – Catchment areas 1. Community Division 2. Community Needs – one catchment area for the whole village Page 223 of 503
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12 Additional Comments 1. Council Decision making and planning 2. Data and Consultation process 3. Although outwith the scope of the consultation, there was significant comment made expressing the view that a new secondary school or a 3- 18 campus should be built. 5. EMAIL SUBMISSIONS 5.1 Summary of Feedback on Proposed Design for Dargavel Primary School There were submissions by email from 13 individuals. These are separate to the online questionnaire. One individual submitted 3 responses. In total, therefore there were 15 emailed responses. One individual completed the survey on paper. These have been analysed separately because it cannot be ascertained whether the respondents also responded to the survey. Their preferences have not been added to the tallies, with the exception of the respondent who was the sole paper response received to the questionnaire. Initial Concerns and Transparency Issues • Email respondent 1: Expresses appreciation for the council's efforts but raises concerns about transparency and detailed planning, highlighting potential biases in the proposal. • Email respondent 2: Urges long-term planning, especially considering population growth, and suggests a broader approach encompassing community needs and future infrastructure. • Email respondent 3: Expresses disappointment in short-sighted planning decisions, advocating for a more comprehensive approach. Site Selection and Community Impact • Email respondent 2: Supports the proposed site within Dargavel for minimizing impact on greenfield areas and emphasizes the need for infrastructure within the designated development area. • Email respondent 2: Echoes the sentiment for the school to be situated within Dargavel, citing responsibilities of Renfrewshire Council and developers to support the growing community. • Email respondent 4: Opposes the proposed site due to concerns about wildlife, noise, and traffic impact, suggesting a reconsideration of alternative locations. High School Provision and Community Engagement • Email respondent 5: Criticizes past planning decisions and expresses concerns about the consultation process, calling for accountability and improved engagement. Page 224 of 503
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13 • Email respondent 6: Raises concerns about high school capacity and urges thorough consideration of secondary school provision alongside primary school planning. • Email respondent 7: Expresses interest in contributing to the consultation remotely due to travel commitments, but makes no substantive contribution. Infrastructure and Special Needs Support • Email responded 8: Highlights the need for adequate support for children with additional support needs and suggests addressing existing issues before proceeding with new infrastructure. • Email respondent 9: Recommends considerations for classroom design, outdoor spaces, accessibility, and facilities for children with additional needs. • Email respondent 10: Advocates for equal consideration of existing residents' amenity and raises concerns about light and noise pollution from the proposed school site. • Email respondent 11: Advocates for a smaller new school and proposes extending Bishopton Primary instead to secure its long-term future. • Email respondent 12: Expresses frustration with the consultation process and criticizes the council's handling of high school provision, advocating for better solutions for children's education. Sports Facilities and Stakeholder Engagement • Email respondent 13: Seeks confirmation on plans for a floodlit football pitch adjacent to the new primary school, emphasizing the importance of sports facilities. • Email respondent 5: Calls for clarity on the proposed extension of Park Mains High School and highlights concerns raised by stakeholders regarding high school provision. Specific Site Concerns and Personal Impact • Email respondent 4: Voices concerns about the proximity of the proposed school site to residential areas and potential negative impacts on wildlife, noise, and traffic. • Email respondent 3: Expresses disappointment in short-sighted planning decisions and urges consideration of long-term impacts on children's education and community well-being 6. SUMMARY OF MAIN ISSUES AND COUNCIL RESPONSE Traffic The biggest and most recurring concern was Traffic and associated issues. Traffic issue 1 - Congestion Page 225 of 503
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14 Traffic Issue 2 - Safety Traffic Issue 3 - Infrastructure to support Active Travel 6.1 Traffic and Traffic Congestion 6.1.1 Road traffic volumes, congestion concerns and the availability of safe active travel routes to the existing and the proposed new school site were the most recurring and consistent themes of concern expressed during the consultation events with the local community. 6.1.2 It was anticipated that concerns of this nature were likely to emerge through the consultation process based on the extent they had featured in earlier pre-engagement activity carried out by officers with the community. In this context a planned independent transport and travel study was commissioned (carried out by Stantec) in January 2024 to assess both the existing situation within the development and to model the impact of the proposed new school site on the capacity of the transport infrastructure across the Dargavel village as it is completed. 6.1.3 The traffic modelling undertaken as part of the study provided reassurance that that the existing road infrastructure planned to be delivered by BAE systems will accommodate the additional traffic that will be generated by trips to and from both primary schools without any capacity issues arising on either the overall road network, or with traffic volumes passing through key junctions in the development. This provides a level of assurance that the flow of traffic within the development will not experience congestion issues due to capacity demand linked to peak school time travel. 6.1.4 The Stantec study also explored considerations in respect to traffic related issues in and about the immediately vicinity of both schools, which can present different challenges beyond overall road and junction capacity. The study assessed the travel modes currently used to access Dargavel Primary School, noting that existing active travel to the school already performs comparably with the Renfrewshire primary school average as summarised below: • The overall proportion of pupils walking or using park and stride to get to school is lower than the Renfrewshire average, but the proportion cycling and scooting / skating is higher meaning that the overall proportion of pupils using active travel is 69%, the same as the Renfrewshire average. • The proportion of pupils being driven to school is slightly less than the Renfrewshire average at 21%, compared to 24%. Page 226 of 503
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15 Mode Share Comparison versus Renfrewshire Average 6.1.5 In relation to those driving to the school, Stantec traffic surveys and monitoring identified a high proportion navigating into the school car park and making use of the drop-off area and not staying for long – as the school design intended. However, they also monitored some cars parking, pavement mounted on the north side of Arrochar Drive between the school “keep clear markings” and the signalised junction with Barrangary Road. This results in Arrochar Drive being reduced to effectively one vehicle lane in this area, with a requirement for “give and go”, and with the parking impinging on pedestrian use of footpaths and clear lines of visibility. Similarly, drivers were also seen park on the footways within the residential streets accessed off Arrochar Drive, blocking walking routes and again impinging on pedestrians. 6.1.6 The Stantec study notes however that the existing primary school is currently supporting housing across the whole development area, including a significant proportion of housing to the north of the development that is beyond a 15-minute walking distance from the school. It also noted housing to the north of the development is impacted by incomplete travel infrastructure that will eventually link the north of the village to the south of the development where the school is located. Additionally, Arrochar Drive is currently operating as a no through road, as the internal loop (Western Link Road) has not been fully constructed. It is expected that the WLR will be constructed by BAE by December 2025. The Stantec study notes that the absence the completed loop road (WLR) has likely encouraged more driven trips and traffic to and from the existing school from housing sites on the north side of the village and that some of the existing traffic issues associated with a high number of car-based trips to and from Dargavel Primary School are exacerbated by these factors. 6.1.7 This undoubtedly contributes to existing issues with vehicle parking around the current school location and this is reflected in the concerns expressed by Page 227 of 503
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16 the community through the consultation response in relation to traffic and safe active travel routes to school. 6.1.8 It is critical moving forward that effective engagement and communication is maintained with the community to evidence that a second school at site E1 and the existing Dargavel Primary school will provide school facilities that are highly connected to their associated catchments and that those connections represent a safe environment for travelling to and from the school sites, irrespective of the mode of travel chosen. 6.1.9 It is critical to consider how in the short-term traffic issues at the current school can be resolved and to ensure that concerns relating to traffic congestion and safe active travel linked to the new school’s proposed location can be adequately and appropriately addressed in the design and delivery planning of the new school. 6.1.10 First and foremost, it is important to recognise that delivery of the second school and implementation of the revised catchments changes, along with delivery of the full village infrastructure (both road and active travel) by BAE Systems will deliver high active travel connectivity and travel times to both schools. 6.1.11 Dargavel Primary School’s catchment will significantly reduce in geographical size and the positioning of site E1 was selected specifically to maximise the opportunity to deliver the shortest active travel distances within its catchment. Detailed travel modelling has been completed by Stantec that confirms the following active travel times for both schools. 6.1.12 This modelling confirms that both schools will have short commute times, providing a high level of opportunity for active travel to school and reduced need for travel by car. As outlined above, the existing school catchment by contrast has a significant proportion of houses materially outwith a 15- minute walking distance which Stantec have noted this will likely have encouraged a greater level of travel by car. 6.1.13 In addition, officers have engaged with Stantec during the course of their study to review a number of considerations that would further enhance safe active travel to both schools, improve arrangements for drop-off and pick-up by car at Dargavel Primary School and identify design factors to be carefully considered in the delivery of a new school on the proposed site. It will be Page 228 of 503
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17 critical such issues are progressed in a manner which aligns with the overall communication and engagement plan set out in the recommendations. 6.1.14 Engagement with BAE Systems is underway to jointly progress planning access and travel routes for the new school site as part of the school and site design. This will carefully consider planned and enhanced active travel infrastructure that BAE Systems will deliver and the design of a school site with multiple access and egress points to minimise distances to housing developments in the surrounding catchment area. 6.1.15 In addition, it will be critical for there to be coordinated and pro-active joint travel planning between both primary schools and the community to support and champion active travel arrangements. 6.1.16 It is accepted that travel by car is unavoidable for some parents and carers at drop-off and pick-up times and adequate design and capacity for parking and drop-off/pick-up arrangements is a key requirement that will be planned into the new school site design, informed by best practice design principles, community engagement and from learning from other similar school sites across the country. This will include exploring traffic control measures in and around the immediate vicinity of the school. Demonstrating well developed, assessed and appropriate arrangements for traffic and travel to and from the school site will be a key requirement that will support the statutory planning application. 6.1.17 In addition, and in recognition of the observed issues being experienced at the current school site, officers are progressing an option appraisal for improved drop-off and pick-up arrangements utilising the flexibility provided through available land secured from BAE systems adjacent to Dargavel Primary School whilst wider travel infrastructure is completed by BAE Systems and revised catchments are implemented as the new school is delivered. A report in this regard will be brought back to the Education and Childrens Services Policy Board for consideration. The other most common issues were: 6.2 Ensure community amenity and community access within the new school 6.2.1 Pre-engagement space planning captured the overwhelming support from the community to deliver a school with the highest quality learning environment and which supports flexible community use outwith school hours (98% of those involved in pre-engagement supported the community having access to the school for a variety of activities – outdoor sport, fitness and exercise classes, social activities, children and toddler groups, adult learning classes, health and wellbeing support. 6.2.2 Officers can confirm this will be integral to the design, and a full size, floodlight synthetic sport pitch with changing facilities is incorporated into the planned school provision and site 9 E1 provides sufficient flexible land to support community facilities. Further engagement with the community, including local groups and sports clubs will take place during the design process to maintain focus on community demand. In addition, following feedback from the Page 229 of 503
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18 Dargavel community through the consultation process, officers are working with the community to determine the best route to support and meet community sports pitch needs whilst the new school-based facility is delivered, and this will include consideration of how other existing pitch provision can be best utilised to meet current and future need. 6.3 High school provision/joint campus development – Outwith scope of consultation 6.3.1 High school provision is not within the scope of the consultation. However it is recognised that officers must continue to engage the community and work in an open and responsive way to plan for future secondary school provision . A new high school or joint primary/secondary campus were referenced by over a third of respondents as important considerations for the Council, and this included those who support the proposal for a new primary school on the proposed site. Importantly, future high school provision for west Renfrewshire is integral to the Council’s strategic learning estate review which will consider long term demand profiles across Renfrewshire, as well as renewal and replacement priorities and options for the primary and high school estate across Renfrewshire. An engagement programme will support this long-term review and will ensure the views of all communities are represented, including Dargavel and Bishopton communities. This includes existing and ongoing engagement in relation to the plans to extend Park Mains High School and the regular updating of school rolls and long term school roll projections for Park Mains High School and implications of these. 6.3.2 It should be noted that concerns have also been expressed by the wider Park Mains High School community who are not statutory consultees in relation to this primary provision consultation. Those concerns related specifically to a desire not to impede the progress of the current project to extend Park Mains High School. 6.3.3 While officers progress the agreed work programme to extend Park Mains High School - the confirmed catchment school for Dargavel and Bishopton, it is fully accepted that there is a critical need to provide transparent and regular updates to the wider community on updated school rolls and projections, to provide the required reassurance that high school capacity will provide sufficient spaces for all children living in the catchment in the long term. The established Park Mains Parent Council Liaison Group has and will continue to be the main forum for cascade of information and feedback from the communities of each catchment primary school. This will include ongoing engagement to inform the programme to extend the school. 6.3.4 To date, through the Park Mains High School space-planning process, consultants have worked with community members, school staff, pupils and parents and carers to make sure views were captured as part of that process. This covered how the existing building is currently used, satisfaction levels with the current building, views on different types of learning space and what building users would like to see from an extended Park Mains. Over 560 individuals completed surveys and 43 took part in focus groups. The school Page 230 of 503
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19 design team and construction contractors have been confirmed and appointed and work is continuing to meet the agreed August 2027 delivery date. 6.4 Effective community engagement and transparent planning and decision-making 6.4.1 There is still an important journey to repair and rebuild the council’s relationship with the local community. The process of consultation, outlined in the report, provided numerous touchpoints to listen to the community and provide deeper understanding of local concerns and challenges. Although there are groups within the community who remain understandably angry towards the council and sceptical of programme planning and delivery, there is a wider community who are willing to work closely with the council to deliver improvements for the community ongoing. It is vitally important the council works strategically to engage those individuals and groups, use existing forums and networks across the community, and provide genuine opportunities for collaboration. This will include ongoing sharing and scrutiny of roll projection data and agreeing an established mechanism for ongoing engagement on active travel and traffic, high school transport, school design, including ASN (Additional Support Needs) provision and wider community needs. 6.5 Issue - Numbers/Roll projections 6.5.1 Linked to the lack of trust in the Council’s planning processes, especially due to the previous errors in numbers, there were concerns expressed about the accuracy of the current projections on which the plans for the proposed new building are based. Response – There have been significant lessons learned from that process. The current projections have been developed independently by Edge Analytics which is a national leader in this field and provide a number range on which the council has based a range of plans. As distinct from the previous errors, the proposed new building, when added to the capacity of the current primary school, provides 1234 spaces and could be stretched to 1300 spaces. That provides sufficient capacity for the most likely projection scenario. However, plans are being developed for how additional capacity could be provided should numbers reach a peak which is higher than expected.. This position is further strengthened by the annual monitoring of live data matched against projections which will allow officers to ensure that provision is sufficient for demand and to respond where any concerns arise. 6.6 Issue - Location of site; proximity to current school 6.6.1 There were concerns expressed about the proposed site being too close to the current school and associated difficulties for the community. Response: Page 231 of 503
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20 This would be something which would be managed by the headteachers of the school. The council want there to be community cohesion in Dargavel/Bishopton, so the headteachers will be encouraged to work together; to collaborate on projects and to exploit every opportunity for the children to work together. There was also concern about increased noise and disruption caused by the schools being close together. However, wherever the new school is built, increased noise because of the number of children attending will be very challenging to avoid. Conversely some respondents, although fewer cited a preference for the schools to be on the same site. 6.7 Issue - The nature of the Consultation Process 6.7.1 There was a view that about the fact there was only one option presented for consultation and a suggestion this meant the decision had already been made. Response: The consultation process was designed in line with both the Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010, as amended and guidance provided by Education Scotland linked to the act. The guidance is there has to be a proposal on which to consult. For this reason, there was the presentation of one option to engage with the community about that proposal and issues associated with it. However, throughout the process it was emphasised that if the outcome of the process was a clear message of no support for the proposal, then officers would present that view to the council for a decision on whether the proposal should progress. Additionally, there was also a clear message that if there was a prevailing view about an alternative proposal related to building a new school, then this would be fully considered and presented to the Council for their consideration. While there were a range of views about the site, as can be seen in section 4 of this report, there was no clear view about one alternative site. The alternative sites which were identified were Sites 22 and 23 in the site matrix– predominantly, because they are large enough for a joint campus. These were identified by 119 respondents, which is 14.6% of the total number of respondents. However, both of these sites are situated within the green belt and therefore would require a much more detailed and complex planning process, with a final decision being made by the Scottish Government, rather than the Council. There are also travel issues associated with these sites as it would encourage increased car use in contradiction of the rationale for the new site to maximise opportunities for children to walk to school. These factors were considered within the scoring matrix. There was a consistent message throughout the consultation that respondents could suggest an alternative site/s. The survey was designed to specifically ask respondents this question. Page 232 of 503
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21 6.8 Issue - Residential Impact and Expectations 6.8.1 People had bought houses in Dargavel village with certain expectations, including what school their children would go to and these expectations have not been met. Response: One of the regretful aspects of the current situation is that children have not been able to go to the school their parents planned for them, and some have had that decision made by a ballot. The 2027 deadline for the new school is to minimise that uncertainty and to have enough provision to meet the expectations of parents, and to meet their entitlement for their child to go to their catchment school. 6.9 Issue - Consideration of other sites 6.9.1 The site matrix did not give enough details of reasons why other sites had been discounted. Response: There were key criteria for sites to meet the requirement of having a school in the heart of Dargavel village and for the new school to be delivered by August 2027. These were applied to all sites identified by the Council and by the community. If these criteria were not met, then the site was discounted. This is a standard approach to site evaluation for statutory consultations. 6.10 Issue – Design of the new school 6.10.1 There have been recognised issues with the open plan nature of the current school and a view that the new school should learn lessons from these. Response: There have been lessons learned from the experience of the existing Dargavel Primary school. The headteacher, staff and children from Dargavel primary school met with the space planners and shared their views and their ideas for the new school. These have all been built into the space planning process and will continue to inform the design of the new primary school to ensure the best learning environment for all children. 6.11 Issue -Design process 6.11.1 Will the project be delivered on time and how long will the modular classrooms be in the current school once the new school is ready? A number of responses questioned the project plan for the new school and expressed concerns the new school would not be ready for the planned August 2027. Page 233 of 503
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22 Response There is currently an indicative timeline for the building of the new school. This is based on timelines and deadlines for key aspects of the project, for example, planning permission. The council is committed to delivering the new school for opening in August 2027 and these timelines will be pushed forward, wherever possible. The process will be managed through Hub West which will speed up the tendering process for contractors and consultants. However, in response to the concerns raised in the consultation, there is now planning for appropriate temporary measures, if there are indications the deadline might not be met. The detail of these is still to be agreed, but will be shared as part of the ongoing community engagement as the project progresses. We emphasise that we are fully committed to delivering the project on time for the school opening in August 2027. When the new school opens, the modular classrooms will be removed from the current school. This will take approximately 5 weeks. 6.12 Issue - Children with additional support needs 6.12.1 Would the new building be planned to meet the needs of all children, including those with additional support needs? Response: Renfrewshire Council has a full commitment to inclusion and meeting the needs of all children in our schools. This will be central to the design of the new school and we will engage with a focus group of parents of children with additional support needs to inform the design process. This will ensure design decisions are informed by the full range of children’s needs. 6.13 Issue - Sufficient denominational spaces 6.13.1 All projections indicate that denominational education can be met by St. John Bosco primary school. 6.14 Issue - Lack of facilities for teenagers in an area with a changing demographic. Response: This issue came up in the discussions at the wide range of engagement events, more so than in the online questionnaires. However, it is a very important one for the local community where, over time, there will be an increasing number of teenage young people and insufficient facilities and activities for them. As part of continuing engagement, there will be planned meetings with all relevant partners to explore the best strategy to make the local community a positive one for young people with a full range of activities in which they can participate. Page 234 of 503
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23 7. REPORT FROM EDUCATION SCOTLAND 7.1 The Council has fully considered the report from Education Scotland. 7.2 Overall Education Scotland consider the council has set out reasonable educational benefits for this proposal. 7.3 Education Scotland recognise that in the very substantial response to the online questionnaire, there was no clear consensus on the proposed site on Craigton Drive with less than half of respondents agreeing with the proposed site and only slightly more, also less than half, disagreeing. There was a large number of respondents who neither agreed or disagreed. Education Scotland does confirm there is no consensus on an alternative site. 7.4 The issues noted in the report are as follows: The authority needs to: • ensure there are improved, adequate safe active routes to school. They also need to develop robust and viable plans to efficiently manage the significant increase in traffic that is expected. • ensure that there are clear contingency plans in place, should there be slippage in the projected timescales for the construction and opening of the new school for August 2027. • continue to consult with stakeholders about the design of the new school, the facilities to be included and in considerations about the community use of the site. 7.5 The report also highlighted that, in taking forward the proposals, the Council should continue to work with stakeholders to mitigate their valid concerns and to involve them, as appropriate, in the design of the new school. Children’s services, along with other council services is very committed to ongoing community engagement on education provision in Dargavel village and will undertake this involvement as part of their already established community engagement processes involving parents/carers, staff, children and other stakeholders, for example community groups. 7.6 Although outwith the scope of the consultation, it would be helpful for the council to continue to work with parents to address their concerns about secondary provision. This is already in place through the Park Mains transition group and presentations to Parent Councils about plans for the extension and education provision. 8. COUNCIL RESPONSE TO THE ISSUES RAISED BY EDUCATION SCOTLAND 8.1 Issue: Improved, adequate safe travel active routes to school, robust and viable plans to efficiently manage the increase in traffic Response: Page 235 of 503
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24 The council commissioned Stantec to carry out a review of Active Travel provision at Dargavel village. The report confirmed there is sufficient road network capacity and junction capacity to support a second primary school on the proposed site. The report confirmed there are no implications regarding proximity of school location. The report does recommend a number of considerations to maximise active travel to Dargavel Primary School and to the proposed school site and to drop-off and pick-up by car at Dargavel primary school. Councill officers are progressing options and proposals for improved drop off and pick up arrangements at Dargavel primary school. Engagement with BAE systems is underway to ensure future developments supports the travel and traffic improvements required by the council. Further analysis by Stantec indicates that with the council’s planned traffic arrangements, a school on Site 9 E1, has the potential to be one of the most walkable primary schools in Renfrewshire, with 71% of catchment pupils able to walk to school within a 10 minute timeframe with 100% able to walk within 15 minutes. It is recognised and fully accepted that travel by car is unavoidable for some parents and carers at both drop off and pick up times. And adequate design for parking and drop off/pick up arrangements will be planned into the school design. Joint planning between both primary schools, community support of active travel and temporary traffic management measures during school drop-off and pick up times will also be required to ensure effective arrangements for those pupils travelling to school by active travel or transport. 8.2 Issue: Clear contingency plans in place, should there be slippage in projected timescales Response: The council and West Hub are confident that the school will be delivered on time. However, recognising the concerns about slippage in timescale, discussion has started on what the contingency plans will be in the event there is slippage in the projected timescales. Council officers will provide a report to a future Education and Childrens Services Policy Board on proposed contingency plans, should there be any delay to construction that would impact the anticipated August 2027 opening date. 8.3 Issue: To continue to consult with stakeholders about the design of the new school including community use. Response: The Council has had a detailed engagement with the community since the start of the process of designing the new school. It is committed to continuing to do so. It will design, in partnership with the community, processes for engagement in the design of the new school, including plans for community spaces and community use. Page 236 of 503
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25 9. SUMMARY 9.1 The Council team was committed to the largest possible engagement with the proposals. Working with the community, this commitment has been delivered with over 800 responses to the online questionnaire and the participation at the various community events. This has led to a robust range of views on the proposal which gives the Council confidence that the consultation has reflected the views of the wider community. 9.2 Having considered all questionnaire responses; written and verbal responses in conjunction with the Education Scotland report, it is proposed to deliver a new primary school on the proposed site “site 9 – E1” as denoted in the Statutory Consultation documentation opening in August 2027. The council will continue to engage with the local community through the school design and planning process. 9.3 We have paid close attention to concerns relating to active travel and traffic management. Recommended actions will be progressed by officers to ensure community concerns are mitigated and statutory obligations are met. These mitigations will be a requirement of the statutory planning process. 9.4 Although outwith the scope of the consultation, we recognise the concerns expressed about secondary provision and are committed to engaging with the community in the manner described in section 5 of this report. 10. EQUALITIES STATEMENT 10.1 An Equalities and Human Rights Impact Assessment was undertaken as part of the consultation exercise to pay due regard to equalities considerations as part of the Council’s Public Sector Equality Duty. Page 237 of 503
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Consultation on new primary school in Dargavel This is a proposal paper This is a consultation on 2 proposals: 1 A proposal to establish a new primary school in Dargavel Village on an 8.5-acre site at the north end of Craigton Drive. 2 A catchment review affecting Dargavel Primary School and the proposed new primary school to be built at Dargavel Village. www.renfrewshire.gov.uk Appendix A Page 238 of 503
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Table of Contents 1. Summary 2. Procedure for Statutory Public Consultation 3. Rationale for Proposal 4. School Configuration Options 5. Site Option Appraisal 6. Catchment Proposals 7. Educational Benefits Statement 8. Wider Site Considerations 9. Catchment Considerations 10. Statutory Consultation Process Proposal Appendices 1. Edge Analytics Housing and Roll Projections 2. Map of proposed Catchment Area for 2 Dargavel Primary Schools 3. List of streets included in the new catchment areas 4. Dargavel Education Provision—New Build—Site Options Matrix 5. Dargavel Education Provision—New Build—Site E1 location map Page 239 of 503
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1. Summary 1.1 This paper asks for your views on the proposals set out above, in accordance with requirements of the Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010. Page 240 of 503
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2 Procedure for Statutory Public Consultation 2.1 The procedures for the statutory public consultation relating to this proposal are: This paper will be issued simultaneously to: • the Parent Council or combined Parent Council of Dargavel Primary School; Bishopton Primary School and St. John Bosco Primary School; • the parents of the pupils at the schools identified above; • the parents of any children who would be likely to become pupils at the affected schools or expected by Renfrewshire Council to attend any affected school within 2 years of the date of publication of this proposal paper; • the pupils at any affected school—for the purposes of this consultation, Dargavel Primary School, Bishopton Primary School (in so far as Renfrewshire Council considers them to be of a suitable age and maturity); • the staff (teaching and other) at these schools; • any trade union which appears to Renfrewshire Council to be representative of the staff (teaching and other) at any affected school; • elected members of wards affected by the consultation proposal; • the community Council (if any); • the community planning partnership for the area of the local authority in which any affected school is situated and any other community planning partnership that the education authority considers relevant; and • any other community groups using any of the affected schools. 2.2 Also: • An advertisement will be prepared notifying the public and inviting written comment from individuals or organisations outlining the proposal and the recommendations and stating that full details can be obtained from establishments affected. This will be published in The Paisley Daily Express and the Renfrewshire Gazette. • The paper will be available for inspection at all reasonable times and without charge at Renfrewshire House and on the Council website at https://www.renfrewshire.gov. uk/dargavel-school-consultation and at all affected schools and all public libraries. • The consultation is now underway and will run until 26th March 2024. • A public meeting will be held at Dargavel Primary School at 7pm on 19th February 2024 to allow the proposal to be discussed and oral representations to be considered. Other public events will be held and details will be communicated directly to the groups listed. • Written representation should be made to Gerry Lyons, Interim Head of Education, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1LE or to Dargavel2consultation@renfrewshire.gov.uk, no later than noon on 26th March 2024. 2.3 Copies of the proposal paper and all written representations and comments received will be forwarded to Education Scotland who will consider the papers and prepare a report which will be sent to the education authority. 2.4 A consultation response report including a summary of all written submissions from all bodies and the report from Education Scotland will then be published by Children’s Services in advance of any Council decision. The report will include a statement of the authority’s responses to any issues raised by representations received or by the report from Education Scotland. 2.5 The consultation response report will be available for inspection at all reasonable times and without charge at Renfrewshire House and on the Council website and at all affected schools and all public libraries. 2.6 The Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010 does not require referral to Scottish Ministers in cases other than closure of schools. 2.7 The final recommendation considering the results of the consultative process will be presented to a meeting of the Education and Children’s Services policy board on 23rd May 2024. Implementation of any decision may not be carried out until at least three weeks have passed. Page 241 of 503
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3 Rationale for Proposal to establish a new primary school and catchment review 3.1 In August 2019, following a consultation process in the first half of 2019, the Education and Children’s Service Policy Board agreed the defined catchment for a new non-denominational primary school within Dargavel Village. In January 2022, the newly constructed Dargavel Primary School in Arrochar Drive, within the village development, opened. 3.2 In November 2022, a report was presented to a Special Education and Children’s Services Board setting out that the Council had identified that the primary school capacity provided at Dargavel Primary School would be insufficient to meet the revised projected demand expected to emerge from the catchment area, as the Dargavel Village development progresses to completion. 3.3 Following detailed and updated projection modelling undertaken by the Council and specialist consultancy Edge Analytics in the first half of 2023, the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board agreed the need to plan to deliver a second primary school to meet the revised projected demand. 3.4 Although underpinned by the best available data and a tried and tested model that has been used extensively across the UK by Edge Analytics, it is recognised that pupil projection modelling in relation to major sites retain unavoidable risk and uncertainty. This is particularly the case when projecting over a significant timeframe. Given almost a decade of development is yet to be delivered in Dargavel Village, the future demand projections produced from the modelling carry an inevitable degree of uncertainty. 3.5 The Edge Analytics model—which projects over a 15-year period and has assumed a completion of the Dargavel Village development in 2033, has indicated a peak in non-denominational demand of 1,131 in 2033/34. This is expected to reduce over the second half of the 2030’s to a slightly lower stabilised level of demand. This pattern of a peak demand followed by a lower stabilised level of demand is evidenced in other large-scale developments across the UK. 3.6 In addition, further scenario modelling, informed by one year of live data for the forthcoming 2024/25 year suggests that if P1 admissions continued long-term at this rate—higher than the Edge Analytics modelling, a peak demand of around 1,500 could emerge in 2033/34. Discussions with Edge Analytics indicate this scenario is not consistent with the experience of large community growth areas elsewhere in the UK and would place Dargavel Village in the very upper tier of education demand profile. 3.7 In this context and based on the core Edge Analytics modelling (peak demand of 1,131), the Education and Children’s Services Policy board agreed that a second school should be planned for to expand non-denominational education provision and deliver 800 pupil places in addition to the existing capacity of Dargavel Primary School (434). 3.8 This followed engagement with Dargavel Parent Council and their strong advocacy for a second primary school to be delivered. It was also agreed that options would be identified for managing potential upper end projection scenarios, should this be required in the long-term. 3.9 Therefore, the proposal for consultation is to deliver a new non-denominational primary school within Dargavel Village for 800 pupils, and to revise catchment arrangements between Dargavel Primary School and the new school. The proposal notes that that the catchment primary school for all denominational pupils in Dargavel Village will remain St John Bosco Primary School. 3.10 In accordance with Section 2 and Schedule 1, Para. 2 and 4 of the 2010 Act, a proposal to establish a new school and a proposal to vary any admission arrangements for a school, including altering or establishing the catchment area of a school, is a relevant proposal for the purposes of, and subject to, the 2010 Act. Page 242 of 503
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4 School Configuration Options 4.1 Although the Council identified an unavoidable requirement to deliver a new school and additional permanent non-denominational primary school capacity of 800, it is recognised that there are options that can be considered to achieve an expansion in capacity at this scale. Option 1—fulfil the need through delivery of a new 800 capacity primary school. Option 2—fulfil the need through delivery of a new smaller capacity school of circa 600 and extend capacity at the existing Dargavel Primary School which is now possible following an additional land parcel adjacent to the existing school being secured from BAE systems. Option 3—fulfil the need through delivery of a new smaller school of circa 600 capacity and extend the catchment of Bishopton Primary School to encapsulate an element of Dargavel Village. This option recognises that a degree of surplus capacity exists at Bishopton Primary School that could support demand from an expanded catchment area encompassing an appropriately sized element of Dargavel Village that is within closest proximity to the school and benefits from a safe walking route. Option 4—fulfil the need through a combination of both 2 and 3, where a much smaller new school is delivered of a similar scale to the existing Dargavel Primary, with the existing Dargavel Primary extended and Bishopton Primary catchment extended to take in an element of Dargavel Village. 4.2 In assessing the options, the key consideration focused on the following assessment criteria: • To what extent the option delivers a learning environment which best supports the delivery of the curriculum and the best educational experience for all learners. • To what extent the option supports environmentally sustainable facilities with lower carbon footprints, satisfactory building conditions, sufficiency levels and education facilities. In addition to these core educational assessment criteria, additional wider factors were considered as part of the assessment process. • To what extent the option would assist in preserving the broad conclusion of the 2019 consultation exercise to maintain a clearly identifiable primary school provision and catchment serving Dargavel Village, whilst retaining a separately identifiable catchment for Bishopton Primary School which should remain focused on the needs of the historic village. • Given the uncertainty and risk in relation to the potential for further additional capacity demand to emerge, to what extent the option supports the Council to maintain flexibility to respond to potential upper demand scenarios emerging in the future. • The extent to which the proposal can deliver facilities that would, outside of school operating times, provide flexible space to support a wide range of community activities and uses within Dargavel Village. This acknowledges community feedback during the pre-consultation engagement that accessible and flexible community facilities is a key requirement the community would like to see fulfilled. This also recognises the existing Dargavel Primary School design failed to adequately meet this expectation. • The financial cost and value for money of the proposed solution. 4.3 Based on the above criteria, the option appraisal assessment has identified that option 1, delivery of a new 800 school provides the best overall school configuration outcome. 4.4 A 3 to 18 campus for Dargavel and Bishopton has previously been suggested by some members of the community. This consultation does not propose to alter the catchment area for Park Mains High School. A detailed analysis of high school demand and provision for the Park Mains catchment, and the Council’s decision to extend Park Mains High School was subject to a Report to Board on 24th August 2023 which can be accessed via www.renfrewshire.gov.uk Page 243 of 503
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5 Site Option Appraisal 5.1 Renfrewshire Council began identifying and assessing potential sites within the Dargavel area to locate a second primary school in December 2022. Since then, there have been additional sites suggested by both BAE Systems as part of discussions in relation to the Dargavel Village development as well as suggestions that have been promoted directly by members of the community. 5.2 The key factors which have been used to guide the site search by Council officers, guide discussions with BAE Systems and the assessment of all options identified throughout the process have focused on a series of key criteria outlined and explained in the site evaluation matrix (Appendix 4). 5.3 This matrix has been used in an appraisal assessment where all the identified sites were evaluated against these criteria and the associated site evaluation matrix is outlined in Appendix 4. Sites which did not meet the required site size were automatically discounted. 5.4 As detailed in Appendix 4, the site referred to as E1 to the north end of Craigton Drive within the Dargavel Village masterplan, has been identified as the preferred location and is identified on the map provided at Appendix 5. 6. Catchment Proposals 6.1 The impact of this proposal is illustrated through existing and proposed catchment maps for Dargavel Primary School and the proposed new primary school within Dargavel Village and is attached as Appendix 2 to this report. 6.2 It is proposed that, if approved, the catchment changes would be implemented to take effect following construction of the new school which it is anticipated will be in 2027. 6.3 If the proposals are approved, all pupils living in affected addresses currently attending Dargavel Primary School would be entitled to continue attending to the end of primary 7. If they are entitled to free school transport, in line with the Council’s transport policy, then this entitlement would also continue. 6.4 Siblings of pupils currently attending Dargavel Primary School would also be entitled to attend the school with their sibling if their older sibling is registered in the school when they enrol. 6.5 Free school transport for new primary 1 pupils would only be provided in instances where the pupil enrols in the school at a time when their sibling still attends the school and where that sibling is entitled to free school transport. Page 244 of 503
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7 Educational Benefits Statement 7.1 Under the 2010 Act where the Council has formulated a relevant proposal, the Council must prepare an educational benefits statement (“an EBS”) in accordance with Sections 1 and 3 of the 2010 Act. 7.2 The Educational Benefits Statement must include the following: a) the Council’s assessment of the likely educational effects of a relevant proposal (if implemented) on: (i) the pupils of any affected school; (ii) any other users of the school’s facilities; (iii) any children who would (in the future but for implementation) be likely to become pupils of the school; or (iv) the pupils of any other schools in the Council’s area, b) the Council’s assessment of any other likely effects of the proposal (if implemented), c) an explanation of how the Council intends to minimise or avoid any adverse educational effects that may arise from the proposal (if implemented), d) a description of the educational benefits which the Council believes will result from implementation of the proposal (with reference to the persons whom it believes will derive them), as well as the Council’s reasons for coming to those beliefs. 7.3 Educational Benefits Statement 7.3.1 Section 3 of this document sets out the strategic context and rationale for the identified need to deliver a second primary school as part of increasing by 800 the non-denominational primary school capacity serving Dargavel. 7.3.2 The educational benefits of the proposed building and the proposed location as outlined in the proposal: • will ensure sufficient primary school capacity to meet projected demand, providing catchment school places for catchment children. This will be monitored on an ongoing basis. • ensures all schools serving Dargavel Village and Bishopton have a viable and sustainable school roll, located within the local area and can serve children, families, and the community of Dargavel. • ensures continuity of learning as children will go through all stages of their primary education in a 21st century learning environment which will accommodate future demand—future-proofed for peak projections and is sector-leading in its design. • will provide the school with a learning environment where it can build a culture of the highest expectations; placed at the heart of the community this will contribute to the creation a community identity for Dargavel Village which can be grown through community engagement and learning, and which sends the most positive messages about the children and their potential. • dining areas will be welcoming, naturally ventilated areas with immediate access to outdoor dining and the IT infrastructure allows for cashless catering arrangements which will enhance the inclusive ethos of the school while supporting the efficient management of dining sittings. Page 245 of 503
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7.4 Learning, Teaching and Assessment 7.4.1 The Council has been working with a Space Planning Consultant who has worked with key stakeholders to develop a strategic brief on what a 21st Century learning environment should look like as part of the proposed new school. This includes classroom spaces which will enable children to experience the full range of learning and teaching approaches with the facility for whole class learning; for children to work and learn together in groups of different sizes and to learn independently based on planned learning. This will provide an environment where teachers will be able to give children a voice in their own learning and the opportunity to lead their learning. 7.4.2 The digital connectivity within the proposed new school will provide the opportunity for children to develop digital learning skills and learn through digital learning methodologies. 7.4.3 Proposals include plans for learning plazas to support project-based learning; multi-purpose spaces which will allow children to learn in different contexts in all curricular areas; and break out spaces where teachers will be able to develop play pedagogy developing skills for learning life and work in all children. 7.4.4 This wide range of learning spaces will improve the quality of assessment and professional judgement as teachers will be able to plan learning on a stage and level basis which can be delivered and assess across more than one class, allowing teachers to develop shared understanding of assessment standards. 7.5 Curriculum—Developing the 4 capacities in all 4 contexts of learning 7.5.1 Over and above classroom spaces, the proposed school environment will provide opportunities to experience the ethos and life of the school. The children will develop as confident individuals through whole school activities including school shows; choirs and instrumental bands; school clubs and opportunities to work with community partners in a range of different activities. 7.5.2 The planned environment and assembly spaces will provide opportunities to build positive relationships across the school; opportunities for inputs from partners on key aspects of personal and social education including keeping safe and healthy; building positive self-esteem and self-efficacy. 7.5.3 Outdoor spaces will be designed to encourage and enhance pupil participation in outdoor learning and deliver positive experiences of outdoor play, supporting children to become responsible citizens and effective contributors. 7.5.4 High quality sport and P.E. facilities will provide space for children to participate in a wide range of sport and exercise supporting the delivery of the Health and Wellbeing curriculum. 7.5.5 The proposed location of a new school, in the heart of the community and sufficiently close to Dargavel Primary School and Bishopton Primary School, will allow children to participate in activities where they can work together to improve their community; to help vulnerable people in their community and so grow their understanding about what it means to be responsible citizens. 7.5.6 The school’s proposed location within the catchment of Park Mains High School will allow pupils to benefit from well-established cluster planning activities as well as highly effective support for primary/secondary transition. Page 246 of 503
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7.6 Supporting Children with additional support needs 7.6.1 The range of spaces that can be delivered within the proposed new school will enable the school leadership team to design facilities which support children who require targeted support— assessed through Renfrewshire Council’s staged intervention policy. This may include break out spaces which allow for targeted intervention for groups of children who require support in specific areas to achieve expected levels of achievement, and flexible space which could be used for sensory rooms for neurodivergent children and space for nurture bases and safe spaces. Additionally, spaces can be created for visiting partners to support children through counselling or group work where there is identified need. 7.6.2 The creation of this high-quality learning environment will send positive messages about all children supporting an ethos of inclusion and equality where all children feel valued. This is supported by the range of spaces available for whole school development on issues of equality. The proposed building will be compliant with the provisions of the Equality Act (2010). 7.7 Career Long Professional Learning and Leadership Development 7.7.1 The proposed building is a 21st century work environment where teachers will have enhanced facility to work together on planning learning and school improvement activity. The digital capability and high quality work spaces will enhance this further providing potential for improvements for digital learning and to maximise the possibilities presented by Artificial Intelligence. 7.7.2 The quality of assessment and moderation will also be improved as there is high quality space for teachers to work together, share practice and learn from each other. The proposed site also presents opportunity for the 2 primary schools and Dargavel primary school to improve through looking outward. Page 247 of 503
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8 Wider Site Considerations 8.1 The preferred site has been assessed as fully meeting all the criteria for the new building. The Council owns the land; it provides the necessary space for the new school building and is sufficiently distanced from the existing primary school, whilst maximising opportunity for active travel and supporting environmental considerations. In addition, the site presents the most deliverable proposal in terms of timeframe and costs for completion. This positions this site as the optimum location for ensuring continuity and sustainability in children’s learning and delivering the planned provision within Dargavel village. 8.2 The site will allow the school design to plan for delivering high quality space for community use outwith school hours as well as additional outdoor sport pitch provision in this new and growing area, enabling social capital and community involvement in developing the use of the space. This will strengthen community and school capacity to promote health, wellbeing and resilience. Attention will be given on creating new opportunities for the local community. As a result, the proposal will provide not only a high-quality educational environment for children but will also realise significant outcomes for the entire community. 8.3 The site position within the heart of the Dargavel Village and the central amenity parkland area, coupled with the proposed catchments, maximises the opportunity for safe active travel to school, for both the new school and existing Dargavel primary and maximises convenience for community use outwith school hours. 8.4 Consideration of the integration of the proposed school site with Dargavel Village road and pathway infrastructure will be part of the formal planning application process and will ensure safe traffic flows and optimum road safety for pedestrians and all road users. The infrastructure considerations will include measures such as active travel infrastructure to primarily support children walking, wheeling, or cycling to the central location of both schools, as well as providing effective drop off/pick up arrangements for private cars and school bus services. Council Officers will work collaboratively on issues related to managing traffic and road safety in and around the existing school site and proposed school site. Previous learning and community feedback will inform the future design process. 8.5 Delivering effective road restrictions around the proposed new school and Dargavel Primary School will be considered holistically to promote the best environment possible for travel to and from the school grounds. Traffic management schemes will be designed to promote positive and considerate pedestrian and road user behaviour in the proximity of the school. 8.6 Officers from Environment, Housing and Infrastructure will lead the development and assessment of safe walking routes and a school travel plan to ensure the network around the proposed new school is safe. 8.7 Initial engagement has commenced with a transport consultant to identify early opportunities to pro-actively incorporate such infrastructure and wider design considerations early into the school design process and to support the more substantial work associated with the transport assessment which will be subsequently carried out as part of the future planning application process. Page 248 of 503
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9 Revised Catchment Considerations 9.1 The revised catchment areas have been identified from the number of houses planned in the Dargavel Village and the projected pupil yield from those planned houses. This has been supplemented by data gathered about the roll of the current primary school and indications from the actual number of children in the school, which will be closely monitored on an ongoing basis. 9.2 Despite the inherent uncertainty as projections stretch over a longer period, the proposal is designed to provide a viable and sustainable pupil roll in both primary schools both in the short and long term. The proposed catchments will allow teacher staffing levels and stage classification arrangements to be effective, and children will be able to learn in a sustainable way in their local area. 9.3 The revised catchment areas improve the options for safe and sustainable travel as they reduce travel distances, making walking to school highly viable for almost all children attending the school. This has benefits for the children’s health and well-being as well as having a positive environmental impact with the potential for a significant and sustained reduction in children being brought to school by car. 9.4 The proposed new primary school will be part of the Park Mains High School cluster comprising Bargarran, Barsail, Bishopton, Dargavel, Rashielea, Langbank and Inchinnan primary schools. As such it will benefit from existing strong relationships with the associated secondary school. There will be an increased roll for the secondary school, but all projection work undertaken by the Council and consideration of viable options indicate this increase can be accommodated with a planned extension to the existing school, the design of which is part of ongoing engagement. Page 249 of 503
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10 Statutory Public Consultation Process 10.1 This document has been issued by Renfrewshire Council for consultation in accordance with the Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010. 10.2 What is a statutory consultation? In Scotland, local authorities have a statutory duty to ensure the adequate and efficient provision of education in their areas. If a local authority proposes to change any part of the existing education provision in its area, then it must engage in a formal consultation process in the Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2021. This act aims to ensure that all major changes which affect schools are subject to clear consultation with parents, children, young people and communities. 10.3 When does the Statutory Public Consultation start? The consultation will start on Monday 29th January 2024 and close on 26th March 2024, which includes a period of 30 school days. 10.4 Who will have access to this proposal document? The proposal document has been made available to all interested parties, including parent Councils, Education Scotland, parents and carers of children attending the establishments affected, Staff Trade Unions and any other users of the establishments as detailed in the distribution list. The proposal document is published on the Council website at: https://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/ dargavel-school-consultation Copies are also available at Renfrewshire House, Dargavel Primary School and local libraries. Copies can also be made available in alternative formats or translated for readers whose first language is not English. 10.5 What if I notice an error in the document? If any inaccuracies or omissions are discovered in this proposal document, either by the Council or any person, the Council will determine if relevant information has been omitted or if there has been any inaccuracy. The Council may then take appropriate action, which may include the issue of a correction notice, the reissuing of the proposal document or the revision of the timescale for the consultation period, if appropriate. In that event, relevant consultees and Education Scotland will be advised. 10.6 How will I get a chance to give my opinion? You will be able to give your opinion on the proposal: • Online at— https://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/ dargavel-school-consultation • By completing an online response form at https://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/ dargavel-school-consultation • By submitting a paper copy of the response form, attached at Appendix 7 • By emailing— Dargavel2consultation@renfrewshire.gov.uk • In writing to Gerry Lyons, Interim Head of Education, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1LE All responses must be submitted by no later than close of business Tuesday 26th March 2024. Page 250 of 503
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10.7 Will there be any meetings for the public? There will be a public meeting on Monday 19th February at 7pm in Dargavel Primary School. This meeting will provide an opportunity for interested parties to hear about the proposal from Council officers, ask questions and have their views recorded so that these can be considered as part of the consultation process. Other public events will be held and details will be communicated directly to the groups listed. Advance notice of specific questions or issues to be raised at the public meeting will be accepted up to Friday 16th February 2024. This will allow all issues to be covered and give those who may not be comfortable speaking publicly their opportunity to be heard. A note will be taken of comments, questions, and officer responses at the public session. The notes will be published on the Council website and a copy will be made available on request. The notes will be forwarded to Education Scotland along with all other submissions and comments that are received by the Council during the consultation process. 10.8 Will any other agencies be involved in the process? The Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010 requires that a report on the proposal on the proposal is prepared by Education Scotland. Education Scotland may attend the public meetings. Once the statutory public consultation period comes to an end, Education Scotland have three weeks to consider the educational aspects of the proposal and submit a report to the Council. Education Scotland receives a copy of relevant papers from the Council, including: • A copy of the proposal, paper copies of the written representations or a summary of them (if Education Scotland agree) • A note of the oral representations made at the public meeting sessions; and • Any other related documents Education Scotland may visit schools as part of their consideration of the proposal and meet with children, staff and parents who may be affected by the proposal. Upon receipt of the proposal document and other relevant documentation, Education Scotland will consider the educational aspects of the proposal. They will ensure that their report takes account of: • The educational benefits statement • The representations received by the Council; and • Any further representations made directly to Education Scotland on educational aspect of the proposal which is considered relevant. The consultation report that the Council publishes following the statutory public consultation must include the report from Education Scotland in full. 10.9 Will the outcome of the consultation be made public? The Head of Service (Education) will prepare a report on the results of the consultation process. The report will take account of all Education Scotland recommendations. This report will be published in electronic and printed formats and will be advertised in the Paisley Daily Express and the Renfrewshire Gazette. It will be available on the Council website and from Council Headquarters. The report will include a record of the total number of written representations made during the consultation period, a summary of written and oral representations and the Council’s response to recommendations made by Education Scotland. A copy of the Education Scotland report will be an appendix to the consultation report which will be published and available for further consideration for a period of more than 3 weeks ahead of presentation to Elected members in May 2024. 10.10 When will the Council make a decision on the outcomes of the consultation? The consultation report, together with any other relevant documentation, will be considered by the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board, who will make a decision in May 2024. Page 251 of 503
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Proposal Appendix 1 Roll Projection—Edge Analytics Dargavel Primary School 600 800 1000 1200 1400 2023-24 2024-25 2025-26 2026-27 2027-28 2028-29 2029-30 2030-31 2031-32 2032-33 2033-34 2034-35 2035-36 2036-37 2037-38 2038-39 530 Scenario HOUSING-E HOUSING-E (P1 Adjusted - 140) HOUSING-E (P1 Adjusted - 150) Scenario 2023-24 2024-25 2025-26 2026-27 2027-28 2028-29 2029-30 2030-31 2031-32 2032-33 2033-34 2034-35 2035-36 2036-37 2037-38 2038-39 HOUSING-E 573 666 773 861 960 1017 1064 1096 1121 1125 1131 1095 1063 1035 1013 995 HOUSING-E (P1 Adjusted - 140) 604 729 872 996 1133 1229 1314 1353 1385 1391 1399 1356 1318 1284 1257 1235 HOUSING-E (P1 Adjusted - 150) 614 750 906 1043 1195 1305 1405 1448 1483 1490 1500 1454 1412 1377 1347 1324 Scenario Description HOUSING-E The HOUSING-E scenario includes the impacts of planned housing on cohort size, through the application of primary and secondary pupil yield factors to a trajectory of planned housing growth. The pupil yield factors have been derived by Edge Analytics, using pupil yield evidence from a sample of dwelling growth areas, located in Renfrewshire and across Scotland. HOUSING-E (P1 Adjusted – 140) The HOUSING-E (P1 Adjusted - 140) scenario uses assumptions that are consistent with the HOUSING-E scenario. In this scenario, the P1 intake is adjusted to reflect 140 P1 Registrations at Dargavel Village Primary School in August 2023 (2023-24). For Bishopton Primary School and St John Bosco Primary School, P1 Registrations of 40 and 23 respectively have been assumed. HOUSING-E (P1 Adjusted – 150) The HOUSING-E (P1 Adjusted - 150) scenario uses assumptions that are consistent with the HOUSING-E scenario. In this scenario, the P1 intake is adjusted to reflect 150 P1 Registrations at Dargavel Village Primary School in August 2023 (2023-24). For Bishopton Primary School and St John Bosco Primary School, P1 Registrations of 40 and 23 respectively have been assumed. Page 252 of 503
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Power BI Desktop Scenario 2023-24 2024-25 2025-26 2026-27 2027-28 2028-29 2029-30 2030-31 2031-32 2032-33 2033-34 2034-35 2035-36 2036-37 2037-38 2038-39 HOUSING-E 573 666 773 861 960 1017 1064 1096 1121 1125 1131 1095 1063 1035 1013 995 HOUSING-E (P1 Adjusted - 140) 604 729 872 996 1133 1229 1314 1353 1385 1391 1399 1356 1318 1284 1257 1235 HOUSING-E (P1 Adjusted - 150) 614 750 906 1043 1195 1305 1405 1448 1483 1490 1500 1454 1412 1377 1347 1324 School Dargavel Primary Roll Projection - Edge Analytics Proposal Appendix 2 Current Dargavel Catchment Map Proposed Dargavel Catchment Map Page 253 of 503
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Proposal Appendix 3 Streets affected by proposal—Dargavel Primary School and a New Primary School to be built at Dargavel Village As at 28th November 2023 Aberlady Way Abington Circle Acer Drive Alness Way Applecross Drive Arrochar Drive Ballantrae Crescent Balnagown Drive Barbeg Crescent Barmore Crescent Barmore Drive Barmore Wynd Barrangary Road Birch Road Birchtree Road Boghall Drive Boghall Place Bolerno Avenue Bolerno Circle Bolerno Crescent Bolerno Gardens Bolerno Place Bolerno Wynd Broadford Place Catterline Way Cedarwood Gardens Central Park View Cherrytree Gardens Colintraive Crescent Craigmuir Drive Craigmuir Road Craigmuir Way Craigton Drive Crail Crescent Crosshill Avenue Crosshill Mews Crosshill Road Crosshill Wynd Culrain Drive Dalbeattie Way Dalgety Drive Dornie Way Drumbeg Road Dunbeath Circle Dundonnell Road Durness Avenue Elder Crescent Elie Drive Fern Way Forge Crescent Forge Way Gatehead Avenue Gatehead Crescent Gatehead Drive Gatehead Grove Gatehead Wynd Girvan Terrace Glenluce Drive Greenock Road Inveraray Road Kilmartin Gardens Kilmelford Drive Kirkconnel Road Kirriemuir Circle Lairg View Limetree Lane Lochside Avenue Lochview Wynd Luss Grove Melness Grove Melvich Way Millbank Avenue Millbank Circle Millbank Crescent Millbank Drive Moffat Gardens Mosshall Drive Nairn Drive Northbrae Drive Northbrae View Ormsary View Plockton Way Portpatrick Avenue Portree Crescent Rossland Crescent Sanquhar Way Skelmorlie Avenue Slateford Road Station Lane Station Road Tain Avenue Tayinloan Way Thurso Crescent Torrisdale Crescent Ullapool Grove Whitemoss Way Whitemoss Wynd Whithorn Crescent The development is still under construction and more addresses may be added to this list, which fall within the boundary of the development site. Page 254 of 503
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Dargavel—New Primary School—Site Option Matrix Proposal Appendix 4 SITES Ref Site Name Size Active Travel Ownership of land Land use designation Anticipated additional cost Total Score Council officer comments 1 Site W7 (Dargavel Masterplan) 10.9 acres = PASS 3 2 3 3 11 Not considered an optimum location due to close proximity (diagonally across road) from existing Dargavel Primary School 2 Site C1 (Dargavel Masterplan— adj existing DPS) 2.5 acres = FAIL 3 Site A (periphery of Masterplan —west of Whithorn Crescent) 5.93 acres = FAIL 4 Site B (periphery of Masterplan west of plot W11) 8.08 acres = PASS 3 2 3 2 10 This site has the disadvantage of being accessed primarily via residential streets through masterplan plots W9, W10 and W11. This is very likely to result in adverse impacts for residents in these streets. Although a distinct new road access could be provided to Site B this would significantly add to the construction costs. DEFINITIONS Size Active Travel Ownership of land Land use designation Anticipated additional cost of developing Site is large enough to accommodate proposed scale of school capacity Site is less than 1km walking distance from majority of school catchment residents Site is owned by RC, BAE or other. *see notes Site is identified for future development in adopted Local Development Plan This criterion is based on a relatively flat, unencumbered site with good existing or committed road access would represent the lowest cost solution for site development. *see notes SCORING Size Active Travel Ownership of land Land use designation Anticipated additional cost of developing PASS = Site is > 8acres in size 3 = majority of catchment <1km walking distance 3 = site is owned by RC 3 = land designated for development 3 = no anticipated additional costs FAIL = Site is < 8acres in size 2 = less than 50% of catchment <1km walking distance 2 = site is owned by BAE 2 = land has no definite status (eg. Unallocated land) 2 = either significant earthworks, new road, additional utility connections required for development site 1 = majority of catchment >1km walking distance 1 = site is owned by other than RC or BAE 1 = site is allocated for open space or green belt 1 = more than one significant additional cost required Page 255 of 503
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Ref Site Name Size Active Travel Ownership of land Land use designation Anticipated additional cost Total Score Council officer comments 5 Site C (periphery of Masterplan —west of plot W8) 6.28 acres = FAIL 6 Site D (periphery of Masterplan —west of plot W5) 6.00 acres = FAIL 7 Site E (periphery of Masterplan —East of Slateford Road) 4.50 acres = FAIL 8 Site F (periphery of Masterplan —between Birch Road and railway line) 4.99 acres = FAIL 9 Site E1 (Dargavel Masterplan) 8.5 acres = PASS 3 3 3 3 12 10 Site E2 (Dargavel Masterplan) 8.5 acres = PASS 3 2 3 3 11 Not considered as optimum a site as E1 due to closer proximity to existing Dargavel Primary School 11 Site W2 (Dargavel Masterplan) 9.1 acres = PASS 3 2 3 3 11 Site W2 is closer to planned housing development in Dargavel Masterplan than site E1. This could lead to impacts on residential amenity through the planned introduction of floodlighting for the community sports provision at the new school 12 Newton Road Playing Fields, Bishopton 7.5 acres = FAIL 13 Holm Park, Bishopton 9.5 acres = PASS 1 1 1 2 5 Owned by Community Development Trust and very unlikely to be available for new school development. Site is designated as Green Belt in LDP with a presumption against its loss to development. Planning status could elongate planning consenting process by up to 2 years. Site is relatively remote from proposed catchment. 14 North of Ingliston Drive 9.0 acres = PASS 1 1 1 1 4 Site is designated as Green Belt in LDP with a presumption against its loss to development. Planning status could elongate planning consenting process by up to 2 years. Site is relatively remote from proposed catchment. 15 East of Slateford Road, Bishopton 8.2 acres = PASS 3 1 1 1 5 Site is designated as Green Belt in LDP with a presumption against its loss to development. Planning status could elongate planning consenting process by up to 2 years. Site is relatively remote from proposed catchment. Page 256 of 503
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Ref Site Name Size Active Travel Ownership of land Land use designation Anticipated additional cost Total Score Council officer comments 16 West of Greenock Road, Bishopton 8.0 acres = PASS 1 1 1 1 4 Site is designated as Green Belt in LDP with a presumption against its loss to development. Planning status could elongate planning consenting process by up to 2 years. Site is relatively remote from proposed catchment. 17 East of Greenock Road, Bishopton 8.0 acres = PASS 1 1 1 1 4 Site is designated as Green Belt in LDP with a presumption against its loss to development. Planning status could elongate planning consenting process by up to 2 years. Site is relatively remote from proposed catchment. 18 Ingliston Drive, Bishopton 2.3 acres = FAIL 19 Matey’s Field, Bishopton (Camphill Gardens) 1.5 acres = FAIL 20 Site W (Parent Council)— Station Road, Bishopton 6.4 acres (tbc) = FAIL 21 Site X (Parent Council)— Gladstone Hill, Dargavel 27.5 acres = PASS 3 2 1 1 7 Site is designated as open space in Dargavel Masterplan with a presumption against development. Current landform (steeply sloping site) would result in significantly increased costs of construction compared to Site E1. 22 Site Y (Parent Council)— West of Slateford Road, Bishopton 61.7 acres = PASS 1 1 1 1 4 Site is designated as Green Belt in LDP with a presumption against its loss to development. Planning status could elongate planning consenting process by up to 2 years. Site is relatively remote from proposed catchment. 23 Site Z (Parent Council)— Ferry Road / Greenock Road, Bishopton 70.4 acres = PASS 1 1 1 1 4 Site is designated as Green Belt in LDP with a presumption against its loss to development. Planning status could elongate planning consenting process by up to 2 years. Site is relatively remote from proposed catchment. *NOTES Size Ownership of land Anticipated additional cost of developing 8 acres considered the minimum size required for an 800 capacity primary school and necessary community facilities. Sites smaller than this threshold not considered further This is scored based on the speed and ease of delivery of the school. A third party owner will inevitably involve negotiations and costs to purchase (not otherwise accounted for elsewhere) and lead to a longer timescale for delivery. A BAE owned site is considered to be quicker due to their imperative to find a solution to assist future housebuilding but not as quick as a Council owned site. This criterion is based on a relatively flat, unencumbered site with good existing or committed road access would represent the lowest cost solution for site development. Sites with no existing or committed road access of a suitable nature or with significant earthwork requirements will add significantly to the cost of the development Page 257 of 503
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Proposal Appendix 5 Map of proposed Site for Proposed new Primary school Page 258 of 503
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www.renfrewshire.gov.uk Page 259 of 503
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Parents, carers and residents of Dargavel are being asked for their views on the location of the new school and the catchment area. Have your say here or online Visit www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/dargavel-school- consultation for details on how to take part. This includes information sessions, public meetings, informal drop-ins and written feedback. Dargavel school consultation Welcome to this statutory consultation event on a proposed new primary school in Dargavel and its catchment. Appendix B Page 260 of 503
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What you have told us so far A PROPOSED NEW PRIMARY SCHOOL FOR DARGAVEL VILLAGE—PRE-CONSULTATION ENGAGEMENT 98% support the community having access to the school outwith school hours for a variety of activities—outdoor sports, fitness and exercise classes, social activities, children and toddler groups, adult learning classes, health and wellbeing support. Parent and carer priorities… a school in the heart of the community, the right size, good playground space, considered parking and drop off, a 5G floodlit artificial pitch, traffic management, not open plan, quiet spaces, community campus, inclusive of P1 to P7. Space planning is the process of analysing how space in a building and in rooms will be used. We consider possible space uses, respond to the needs of those who will use the space, and we ensure spaces are used efficiently. Informed by 651 survey responses and stakeholder interviews with pupils, parents and carers, community representatives, community groups and parent groups, in late 2023. Our process—to listen and discuss, to agree and test the vision and ambition, to develop a spacial model to support the school design. Space planning Page 261 of 503
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Programme timeline (Subject to the outcome of statutory consultation) A PROPOSED NEW PRIMARY SCHOOL FOR DARGAVEL VILLAGE—PRE-CONSULTATION ENGAGEMENT September 2023 to March 2024 January to February 2024 March 2024 April 2024 May 2024 March 2025 January to March 2024 March to June 2024 July 2025 July to December 2024 August 2027 • Tender development for design team, architects and engineers • Space Planning engagement and development of concept designs Site Investigation Works on proposed site E1 Architect appointment • Engineer appointment • Main contractor appointment Planning application Statutory Consultation on a proposed new primary school (its proposed site and a catchment review) Detailed design Elected Members will consider the responses received from the statutory consultation. Future timeline will depend on the outcome of the Board decision. Construction on site Technical design conclusion Proposed opening date Page 262 of 503
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Vision and Objectives A PROPOSED NEW PRIMARY SCHOOL FOR DARGAVEL VILLAGE—PRE-CONSULTATION ENGAGEMENT Vision The new primary school in Dargavel Village will provide an innovative & inclusive learning environment for 800 pupils. It will provide facilities to support community use & prioritise design approaches that are flexible and sustainable. Innovative Infrastructure to support embedded technology & enhance the learning experience Welcoming entrance experience for visitors, community & parents The heart of the community Spaces to support multiple activities and users A building which is easy to maintain & repair Low impact energy solutions Systems to allow the shut down of zones when not in use Simple building controls Spaces that can open up and close down according to activities Spaces that can be easily adapted from one use to another to support future changes in demand Zoning to allow out of hours access to indoors & outdoors facilities & multi- functional space A design that supports flexible use of spaces by multiple users Maximise opportunities for the whole learning community & wider community Range of quiet / retreat spaces to support individual learning preferences Careful consideration of acoustics and noise levels & volume of spaces Spaces that support & nurture Variety of learning environments to suit age, stage & need Outdoor learning spaces that support learning activities, health & wellbeing & foster wider participation Inclusive Community focused Flexible Sustainable Objectives A vision, key themes and ideas emerged from what people told us during the space planning. Page 263 of 503
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Space Planning—Multi-Use spaces A PROPOSED NEW PRIMARY SCHOOL FOR DARGAVEL VILLAGE—PRE-CONSULTATION ENGAGEMENT PLEASE NOTE: All plans and images shown are examples of how the proposed new school could look, based on feedback from the space planning—these are not actual designs. 2 Court Sports Hall & Drama /Music Studio (+ Adult changing to support community use) Life Skills / Literacy Space (Learning, Community & Afterschool activity) STEM / Numeracy Space (Learning, Community & Afterschool activity) Page 264 of 503
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Space Planning—Learning spaces A PROPOSED NEW PRIMARY SCHOOL FOR DARGAVEL VILLAGE—PRE-CONSULTATION ENGAGEMENT Priorities • Differentiation of furniture types & layouts across key stages • Free flow between class bases and breakout • Acoustic separation & shelter to support focus 8–10 3–8 10 + PLEASE NOTE: All plans and images shown are examples of how the proposed new school could look, based on feedback from the space planning—these are not actual designs. Page 265 of 503
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Space Planning—Support spaces A PROPOSED NEW PRIMARY SCHOOL FOR DARGAVEL VILLAGE—PRE-CONSULTATION ENGAGEMENT Strategy • Range of semi-enclosed and enclosed opportunities within class bases, breakout for learners to retreat for shelter, focused or regulatory activities Class bases Breakout Pupil SupportRetreat Space PLEASE NOTE: All plans and images shown are examples of how the proposed new school could look, based on feedback from the space planning—these are not actual designs. Page 266 of 503
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Space Planning—Outdoor spaces A PROPOSED NEW PRIMARY SCHOOL FOR DARGAVEL VILLAGE—PRE-CONSULTATION ENGAGEMENT Opportunities for learning & the community • Growing space • Outdoor classrooms • Wildlife • Fitness • Playing PLEASE NOTE: All plans and images shown are examples of how the proposed new school could look, based on feedback from the space planning—these are not actual designs. Page 267 of 503
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Site locations SITE PLANNING AND SELECTION How we approached selecting a proposed site for a new primary school An options exercise was carried out by Renfrewshire Council to look at potential sites for a proposed second primary school. Five sites within Dargavel Village Masterplan were suggested to BAE by the council—sites 1,2,9,10 and 11. BAE suggested five more sites 3,4,5,6 and 8. Six more sites were then considered by the council. These were sites greater than eight acres and immediately on the periphery of Bishopton or Dargavel Village—sites 12,13,14,15,16 and 17. Seven additional sites were suggested by the Parent Council and other community representatives. • All sites were scored in respect of size, active travel credentials, ownership, land use designation and cost, allowing scores to be assigned and a proposed site identified for consultation. • Scores between 4 and 12 were recorded with site E1 coming out on top. Page 268 of 503
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Site locations SITE PLANNING AND SELECTION Ref Site Name 1 Site W7 (Dargavel Masterplan) 2 Site C1 (Dargavel Masterplan— adj existing DPS) 3 Site A (periphery of Masterplan— west of Whithorn Crescent) 4 Site B (periphery of Masterplan west of plot W11) 5 Site C (periphery of Masterplan— west of plot W8) 6 Site D (periphery of Masterplan— west of plot W5) Key New School site options Proposed site Other options considered Existing Dargavel Primary School Village Centre Access routes Constructed Propossed Ref Site Name 7 Site E (periphery of Masterplan— East of Slateford Road) 8 Site F (periphery of Masterplan— between Birch Road and railway line) 9 Site E1 (Dargavel Masterplan) 10 Site E2 (Dargavel Masterplan) 11 Site W2 (Dargavel Masterplan) 12 Newton Road Playing Fields, Bishopton 13 Holm Park, Bishopton 14 North of Ingliston Drive 15 East of Slateford Road, Bishopton Ref Site Name 16 West of Greenock Road, Bishopton 17 East of Greenock Road, Bishopton 18 Ingliston Drive, Bishopton 19 Matey’s Field, Bishopton (Camphill Gardens) 20 Site W (Parent Council)— Station Road, Bishopton 21 Site X (Parent Council)— Gladstone Hill, Dargavel 22 Site Y (Parent Council)— West of Slateford Road, Bishopton 23 Site Z (Parent Council)— Ferry Road/Greenock Road, Bishopton © Crown Copyright and database rights 2024. OS Licence number 100023417 Page 269 of 503
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Site analysis/scoring SITE PLANNING AND SELECTION Definitions Size Active Travel Ownership of land Land use designation Anticipated additional cost of developing Site is large enough to accommodate proposed scale of school capacity Site is less than 1km walking distance from majority of school catchment residents Site is owned by RC, BAE or other. *see notes Site is identified for future development in adopted Local Development Plan This criterion is based on a relatively flat, unencumbered site with good existing or committed road access would represent the lowest cost solution for site development. *see notes Scoring Site Size Active Travel Ownership of land Land use designation Anticipated additional cost of developing PASS = Site is > 8acres in size 3 = majority of catchment <1km walking distance 3 = site is owned by RC 3 = land designated for development 3 = no anticipated additional costs FAIL = Site is < 8acres in size 2 = less than 50% of catchment <1km walking distance 2 = site is owned by BAE 2 = land has no definite status (eg. Unallocated land) 2 = either significant earthworks, new road, additional utility connections required for development site 1 = majority of catchment >1km walking distance 1 = site is owned by other than RC or BAE 1 = site is allocated for open space or green belt 1 = more than one significant additional cost required Sites Ref Site Name Size Active Travel Ownership of land Land use designation Anticipated additional cost Total Score Council officer comments 1 Site W7 (Dargavel Masterplan) 10.9 acres = PASS 3 2 3 3 11 Not considered an optimum location due to close proximity (diagonally across road) from existing Dargavel Primary School 2 Site C1 (Dargavel Masterplan— adj existing DPS) 2.5 acres = FAIL 3 Site A (periphery of Masterplan— west of Whithorn Crescent) 5.93 acres = FAIL 4 Site B (periphery of Masterplan west of plot W11) 8.08 acres = PASS 3 2 3 2 10 This site has the disadvantage of being accessed primarily via residential streets through masterplan plots W9, W10 and W11. This is very likely to result in adverse impacts for residents in these streets. Although a distinct new road access could be provided to Site B this would significantly add to the construction costs. 5 Site C (periphery of Masterplan— west of plot W8) 6.28 acres = FAIL 6 Site D (periphery of Masterplan— west of plot W5) 6.00 acres = FAIL 7 Site E (periphery of Masterplan— East of Slateford Road) 4.50 acres = FAIL 8 Site F (periphery of Masterplan —between Birch Road and railway line) 4.99 acres = FAIL 9 Site E1 (Dargavel Masterplan) 8.5 acres = PASS 3 3 3 3 12 10 Site E2 (Dargavel Masterplan) 8.5 acres = PASS 3 2 3 3 11 Not considered as optimum a site as E1 due to closer proximity to existing Dargavel Primary School 11 Site W2 (Dargavel Masterplan) 9.1 acres = PASS 3 2 3 3 11 Site W2 is closer to planned housing development in Dargavel Masterplan than site E1. This could lead to impacts on residential amenity through the planned introduction of floodlighting for the community sports provision at the new school 12 Newton Road Playing Fields, Bishopton 7.5 acres = FAIL 13 Holm Park, Bishopton 9.5 acres = PASS 1 1 1 2 5 Owned by Community Development Trust and very unlikely to be available for new school development. Site is designated as Green Belt in LDP with a presumption against its loss to development. Planning status could elongate planning consenting process by up to 2 years. Site is relatively remote from proposed catchment. *Notes Size Ownership of land Anticipated additional cost of developing 8 acres considered the minimum size required for an 800 capacity primary school and necessary community facilities. Sites smaller than this threshold not considered further This is scored based on the speed and ease of delivery of the school. A third party owner will inevitably involve negotiations and costs to purchase (not otherwise accounted for elsewhere) and lead to a longer timescale for delivery. A BAE owned site is considered to be quicker due to their imperative to find a solution to assist future housebuilding but not as quick as a Council owned site. This criterion is based on a relatively flat, unencumbered site with good existing or committed road access would represent the lowest cost solution for site development. Sites with no existing or committed road access of a suitable nature or with significant earthwork requirements will add significantly to the cost of the development Page 270 of 503
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Sites Ref Site Name Size Active Travel Ownership of land Land use designation Anticipated additional cost Total Score Council officer comments 14 North of Ingliston Drive 9.0 acres = PASS 1 1 1 1 4 Site is designated as Green Belt in LDP with a presumption against its loss to development. Planning status could elongate planning consenting process by up to 2 years. Site is relatively remote from proposed catchment. 15 East of Slateford Road, Bishopton 8.2 acres = PASS 3 1 1 1 5 Site is designated as Green Belt in LDP with a presumption against its loss to development. Planning status could elongate planning consenting process by up to 2 years. Site is relatively remote from proposed catchment. 16 West of Greenock Road, Bishopton 8.0 acres = PASS 1 1 1 1 4 Site is designated as Green Belt in LDP with a presumption against its loss to development. Planning status could elongate planning consenting process by up to 2 years. Site is relatively remote from proposed catchment. 17 East of Greenock Road, Bishopton 8.0 acres = PASS 1 1 1 1 4 Site is designated as Green Belt in LDP with a presumption against its loss to development. Planning status could elongate planning consenting process by up to 2 years. Site is relatively remote from proposed catchment. 18 Ingliston Drive, Bishopton 2.3 acres = FAIL 19 Matey’s Field, Bishopton (Camphill Gardens) 1.5 acres = FAIL 20 Site W (Parent Council)— Station Road, Bishopton 6.4 acres (tbc) = FAIL 21 Site X (Parent Council)— Gladstone Hill, Dargavel 27.5 acres = PASS 3 2 1 1 7 Site is designated as open space in Dargavel Masterplan with a presumption against development. Current landform (steeply sloping site) would result in significantly increased costs of construction compared to Site E1. 22 Site Y (Parent Council)— West of Slateford Road, Bishopton 61.7 acres = PASS 1 1 1 1 4 Site is designated as Green Belt in LDP with a presumption against its loss to development. Planning status could elongate planning consenting process by up to 2 years. Site is relatively remote from proposed catchment. 23 Site Z (Parent Council)— Ferry Road / Greenock Road, Bishopton 70.4 acres = PASS 1 1 1 1 4 Site is designated as Green Belt in LDP with a presumption against its loss to development. Planning status could elongate planning consenting process by up to 2 years. Site is relatively remote from proposed catchment. *Notes Size Ownership of land Anticipated additional cost of developing 8 acres considered the minimum size required for an 800 capacity primary school and necessary community facilities. Sites smaller than this threshold not considered further This is scored based on the speed and ease of delivery of the school. A third party owner will inevitably involve negotiations and costs to purchase (not otherwise accounted for elsewhere) and lead to a longer timescale for delivery. A BAE owned site is considered to be quicker due to their imperative to find a solution to assist future housebuilding but not as quick as a Council owned site. This criterion is based on a relatively flat, unencumbered site with good existing or committed road access would represent the lowest cost solution for site development. Sites with no existing or committed road access of a suitable nature or with significant earthwork requirements will add significantly to the cost of the development Site analysis/scoring (continued) SITE PLANNING AND SELECTION Definitions Size Active Travel Ownership of land Land use designation Anticipated additional cost of developing Site is large enough to accommodate proposed scale of school capacity Site is less than 1km walking distance from majority of school catchment residents Site is owned by RC, BAE or other. *see notes Site is identified for future development in adopted Local Development Plan This criterion is based on a relatively flat, unencumbered site with good existing or committed road access would represent the lowest cost solution for site development. *see notes Scoring Site Size Active Travel Ownership of land Land use designation Anticipated additional cost of developing PASS = Site is > 8acres in size 3 = majority of catchment <1km walking distance 3 = site is owned by RC 3 = land designated for development 3 = no anticipated additional costs FAIL = Site is < 8acres in size 2 = less than 50% of catchment <1km walking distance 2 = site is owned by BAE 2 = land has no definite status (eg. Unallocated land) 2 = either significant earthworks, new road, additional utility connections required for development site 1 = majority of catchment >1km walking distance 1 = site is owned by other than RC or BAE 1 = site is allocated for open space or green belt 1 = more than one significant additional cost required Page 271 of 503
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Active Travel and school access TRANSPORT AND TRAVEL A local priority • Feedback from our Space Planning process and through community representatives has flagged safe travel to and from the proposed new primary school as a priority for parents and carers. • This will be a core element of our planning and will be carefully considered through engagement with parents and carers, as we agree a site for the new primary school and progress its development. • Improvements to active travel will be made at the existing Dargavel Primary School, including improving arrangements for parents and carers at drop-off and pick-up. • In 2023, the council commissioned Stantec to carry out a review of Active Travel Provision at Dargavel Village. This has recommended areas for consideration to improve Active Travel to Dargavel Primary School, and to consider when planning the proposed new primary school. You can find out more from Officers today. Active Travel improvements to consider at Dargavel Primary School • Create an active travel corridor from Barrangary Road along Arrochar Drive and widening footpaths on the proposed section of the Western Loop Road. • Erect wayfinding signs to show the distance from key points on the footpath and cycleway network to the school. Signs should consist of distances in metres and time. • Provide a temporary car park in the council owned vacant site adjacent to the school for parents and carers for drop off and pick up to remove the current on-street parking. • Construct a footway crossover—giving priority to pedestrians, over the access to the temporary car park. • Impose a Traffic Regulation Order (at school times only), replacing police cones, extended along Arrochar Drive. PLEASE NOTE: Active Travel improvements may be a mixture of some/all of the above. The recommendations will be considered in discussion with BAE. Page 272 of 503
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Active Travel and school access TRANSPORT AND TRAVEL Active Travel considerations along the Western Loop Road (WLR) • Provide a 4.5m active travel corridor (footway / cycleway) on the school side of the WLR. • Provide a 3.5m wide footway / cycleway along the western side of the WLR. • Link all Active Travel routes (shared footway / cycleways) with footpaths within Central Park. • Each development parcel must provide a safe (and preferably segregated) footway / cycleway link to the WLR of at least 3.5m wide. Active Travel considerations to support proposed new school at proposed site E1 • Position the proposed car park to encourage the least distance travelled by parents / carers and ensure adequate provision for bus parking and drop-off / pick-up. • Provide separate drop-off provision for buses and cars. • Provide footpaths into the school of at least 3.5m width. • Integrate links from development parcels to the Western Loop Road and consider the provision of a controlled crossing point (Toucan) on the Western Loop Road at the point of highest likely demand for pedestrians and cyclists. • Provide splayed entries from the Active Travel corridor to school access footpaths. • Provide School Keep Clear markings along the entire school frontage. • Implement Traffic Regulation Order (at school times only) on the Western Loop Road. • Implement a joint travel plan with the current Dargavel Primary School. PLEASE NOTE: Active Travel improvements may be a mixture of some/all of the above. The recommendations will be considered in discussion with BAE. Page 273 of 503
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Active Travel (walking and wheeling) routes with existing consent TRANSPORT AND TRAVEL Page 274 of 503
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Information Session – scribe template Date: 8/2/24 Scribe name: Lauren Johnston Session: Bishopton Primary (Online) Council officers present: Gerry Lyons, Wendy McNaught Liz Marshallsay Kellyann Liz Cathryn Henderson Rhona Claire Fiona Johnston Kate Roy Nicola Laura Hill Janis Logue DB General discussion points Gerry outlined the wider engagement approach as part of the statutory consultation process. Realise this has not been as effective in the past and want to do better. Do this in different ways. Shared dates and format of information sessions and public meetings. Giving people opportunity to ask questions, get them answered and recorded. Outlined the statutory consultation process – a relevant proposal needs to be presented. Propose an opening of a new school for 800 children in Dargavel, site selection and review of catchment. We are seeking opinions on these areas. 1 proposal does not mean “a done deal”. Based on views, a report will be published and shared with councillors. Other alternatives can be suggested and put forward for consideration. Site chosen is the one we are most confident it can be built for 2027. Appendix C Page 275 of 503
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Identified areas which individuals would like covered in public meetings Specific questions raised EY provision Nursery provision in Bishopton – 73 spaces in council nursery. Has there been any discussions about extending. Interpretation of responses and scale of consultation Location and site don’t impact me personally or children. Risk of delay to the new build and implications for children in Bishopton. How are views being interpreted. Certain voices perhaps dominating positions that are not representative. Geographical opportunities – how wide is the consultation Consultation outcomes 800 new primary school – if people disagree what would be the outcome? Response provided Will discuss this with the early years teams in terms of capacity and requirement. There are a range of different ways to respond and how these will be interpreted. There is an online questionnaire for people to complete which are directly about the proposal which are scaled. This will give us hard indicators and a range of views will be added to this information. Education Scotland are also part of this. There interpretation will also be pulled together into a report which will be presented to members with recommendations. Need a full rounded picture of community view and not just a small number who are particularly active. Encourage people to complete the survey. Anyone can comment on the consultation in Renfrewshire and give an opinion to make it as open ended. Stat consultees will have different engagement processes. We would need to look at the extent of the responses and balance. Concern as representative of the council that beyond Aug 27 numbers of children cannot be met between Bishopton and Dargavel and we would need to look further out and we don’t want to be in this position. However, we need to be led by community on this. It is not an election or referendum. We are gathering views and then can make a decision based on wide range of views. Page 276 of 503
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How do you decide to go ahead with proposal – must be a cutoff / threshold If decision is for the proposal not going ahead, the proposal goes back to drawing board. Rashilea has been put forward as being potential solution but this is not clear in proposal. Long term planning Interim positions – interim plans for High School. Where is the longevity in planning. Planning permission for another 300 houses, has this been taken into account There is no definitive score. If people are saying they are not in favour, its more important to understand why and what proposal is feasible. It doesn’t come down to a scoring system. A range of views and opinions are taken and then recommendations are proposed. Not about the biggest number wins. All comes back down to discussions and a final paper which will be presented to politicians. Proposal paper needs to be presented in a particular way – educational benefits are presented on the option and we tend not to go into if it is not successful. Gathering this type of information through the engagement. Figures from Edge Analytics include up to 10-15 years. The proposal we are putting forward will meet the requirement for primary education for the long term. There is a peak that comes and it will fall again as development settles. All houses (4322 houses) have been included in projections not just on current houses. We are doing regular monitoring of actual and projected figures, NHS data about births and number of children of certain ages and early years. So, the Primary planning is a very long term picture which also includes scenarios. Secondary is not an interim position. There is an extension to be built which will take capacity to 2000 and this is permanent. In terms of the impact on children, they will have an outstanding education. Have been a HT of 2000 and to inform conversation, we are getting a range of info from schools of similar size so people get an understanding of benefits and challenges. Understand concerns about figures. About a much wider look about the requirements across the area for the long term. Plans are also adding to community facilities – 2 flood lit pitches which will add to football facilities, Arena for concerts. Plans enhance community facilities. Quite substantial long term planning is in place. Page 277 of 503
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Planning contingency re new build 2027 – what is contingency it doesn’t come in on time e.g. pandemics. Will children be sent to Rashilea. Regular updates going forward Projections What data has been used to project capacity for new school Secondary placing requests Secondary – What year will placement requests be stopped. Secondary extension Extension to PMHS – will this go ahead The programme plan is significant and this is being monitored extensively. There is a commitment to delivery and we will keep a close eye on the plan and have a plan B in place. Parent council and groups invited to support what regular updates look like and how often they require them. We need to build trust. We are being conscientious and will engage as fully as we can. Range, nature and size of housing and number of children generated from size of housing has been taken into account by Edge. We know the nature of houses that are being proposed – projections based on pupil yield and denominational / non-demon yield. There is a methodology that Edge Analytics use to produce the projection. Council team has done same exercise and came out the same numbers. Live data is also being taken into account. NHS data is given to Edge to take account in projections As part of the Education Scot Act there is a requirement to plan numbers based on young people in catchment. As we monitor catchment area, we need to deliver this requirement. No specific year for stopping placing requests. As we move towards peak, we will start to look at placing requests being reduced and places being capped to catchment only. The real driver is based on 1st year as this decision is for 6 years. The whole process is run on 1st year cap. The projections include actual and projected from feeder primaries. This is a firm plan and doesn’t require stat consultation. Have committed to come and have more detailed conversation about provision. Might be about adjusting catchments to other areas. PMHS wont get any bigger than circa 2000. If it gets to this point, there is a wider conversation to be had about other schools and solutions. Page 278 of 503
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Community facilities Will these be open to all and wont be shelved – MUGA downgraded Roll projection question from Liz – adjusted figures – wasn’t clear on question. Was being promoted by someone else to ask question and lacked clarity. Is there a plan B Bishopton condition Bishopton – lifespan and resources. Secondary Numbers of pupils from Bishopton/Dargavel currently going to Park Mains. Along with projected numbers for each year. Based upon the numbers used by edge Community facilities will be open to all – not just primary children. Regarding teenager facilities and potential implications, this is an interesting conversation for the council. Know impact of having positive teenager facilities. PMHS extension will also have additional facilities. Facilities are fundamental to design of school and are as important as classroom space. There will be 2 4G Pitches and are in plans and wont be easy to pencil through. Building a community facility which is not ancillary Plan B would be about adjusting catchment areas at other end of area of the village and the proposal would be to send other addresses to other schools. There would need to be a stat consultation to do this and might need to increase capacity of other schools. Current Bishopton comes under wider learning estate strategy and this is informed by conditions surveys every 5 year. Work required to maintain the school including an amount of money that needs to be spent. Increased funding to ensure children are fully resource. Conversations with estates team and HT are ongoing. Provide David Kelly with figures david.mcisaac@gmail.com Page 279 of 503
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Not enough done to improve Bishopton Primary and has never been rewarded for this and should be high on priority Fair and valid point – and has been noted Any other points / info Gerry will be back to wider community council at a later date. Information Session – scribe template Date: 8/2/24 Scribe name: Lauren Johnston Session: Bishopton Primary (Afternoon) Council officers present: Gerry Lyons Sam Marshallsay General discussion points Identified areas which individuals would like covered in public meetings Specific questions raised Projections Edge Analytics – tried and tested model, scenarios based on standard, 140 and 150. Why are you not using 150 scenario given current P1? Working on slim margins. 2027 wont be met for new build based. Temp modular classroom for whole education journey from Primary – Secondary. Need to build in a safety net regarding figures. If there are 3 years of 150 intake, will this be the model taken forward Response provided A number of roll projections and scenarios were discussed with the parent. We are monitoring actual figures twice per year. We have projections and it essential that we track actuals. We have proposed to analyse data after Census (Sept) and after enrolment (March). This will be the data that defines the next stages and identify red flags. Things are different from last time, projections tell us a lot and live figures are absolutely critical. Looking at 150 model in 2 primary 1s cohorts. New set of figures for the whole estate coming at end of month. Page 280 of 503
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When will figures be presented to council? New school timeframe New school wont be built on time based on previous experience Bishopton Primary condition How much longer does Bishopton Primary have in its lifecycle? Extension then new build Why not build an extension first rather than new build? Very difficult to get lets for community spaces. It can be built very quickly Projections BAE convinced Renfrewshire Council to change the build model. Dargavel is exceptional and so the numbers will also be exceptional. Modular units If the modular units are not being used, will they be gone or stay in the playground? Trigger points for additional options What is the latest we will need the extension – 1500+ mark, what is the decision point We have to act when we don’t have capacity. We have things now in place which will help us identify when we need to and this is different to previous. Potential dates to be shared with parent? Project plan in place which illustrates when the new build will be complete. Conditions surveys have been completed. With some investment, it is more than suitable for another 20-30 years. There is no intention of Bishopton Primary not being here in next 20 years. We have looked at different models including an extension first and then new build. Extension will only provide classroom space and not community space. It is not fiscally responsible to do the extension first. We are saying regardless of the projection range we can meet capacity. Numbers do not suggest that we cannot meet capacity. Have a range and live data. Need to look at forward decisions and make it work and have people to work with us. Get answer Will share this information when a plan is place Page 281 of 503
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Site selection Consultation document –the doc is biased toward a singular option. Other appraisals were shut down largely due to time. E1 – there cannot be no arguments against in E1. It is blank. Where are the negative points about E1. Access and roads not being built are the negatives that have not been documented. E1 meets all criteria. Public consultation gives people the option to explore other sites however this will delay programme. The statutory guidance states you have to put a proposal on the table. E1 presents no negatives in terms of getting the new school built by Aug 27. If people come back in the consultation that they do not want site E1, we have to take this into account. We have a responsibility as a council to take this into account. Transport consultant has been commissioned to look at all transport issues. Any other points / info See council who have repeatedly failed and refused to listen to community. Page 282 of 503
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Information Session – scribe template Date: 8/2/24 Scribe name: Lauren Johnston Session: Bishopton Primary (Morning) Council officers present: Gerry Lyons David Woodrow Danielle Cox General discussion points Parent raised issue of having to move children to Bishopton due to noise issue with Dargavel – children are hearing impaired. Both schools have been very supportive. Feel we need to start afresh regardless of previous issues but the children are a priority. Discussion about ASN and diversity of needs and how to engage with parents / carers. Identified areas which individuals would like covered in public meetings Specific questions raised Community facilities Is this still going to built and not taken over by new builds? Catchment review Catchment review addresses in scope Road safety with new primary Concerns around roads and traffic with new school being built Response provided Plan is still in place to build park. Addresses and catchment are outlined in the proposal. Parent was recommended to respond formally on the catchment address through the formal consultation. Full survey has been completed by external consultant which is picking up issues. Report will be available in due course. The report includes a series of recommendations for the council to deal with the issues. Active travel Page 283 of 503
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ASN Will there be an ASN wing in new school. Recommend council to engage with acoustic experts as part of design Transport / seatbelts Community council raised that there was no seatbelts on buses to Park Mains. A bus appeared that had no seatbelts and has continued to arrive at school will be encouraged but pavements are too narrow and so this needs to be addressed. New pavements being built have to be bigger. This is a conversation to be had with BAE. A drop off car park at current Dargavel is also being considered as a recommendation. There will be spaces but there wont be a specific wing. We are aiming for a properly integrated approach. Need to look at planning, facilities, staffing. Lenses will be children with ASN. Space planning team are taking this into account. ASN input is going to be very important and should be an ongoing conversation as school is getting built. Very good point made regarding engaging experts and will look at engaging all experts e.g. audio, visual. Gerry offered to bring parent in as part of the design and consultation. Gerry will pick this up with Transport team. Any other points / info Joe Donal – audiologist. Key contact First Wednesday in March for Community Council – Gerry to attend. Page 284 of 503
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Information Session – scribe template Date: 7/2/24, 7pm (online) Scribe name: Lauren Johnston Session: Dargavel Primary School – conversation online Council officers present: Gerry Lyons, Mrs Farrell, Gerry Carlton Kasey Paton Wendy Amy Ferry Cheryl Kremer Yannick Mr Brown Lyle Brown Cheryl Kremer Sarah K General discussion points NA Identified areas which individuals would like covered in public meetings NA Specific questions raised Secondary The impact on the high school is a concern. Any information on how this would be managed would be good Placements / right to remain Response provided The focus of the consultation is on the new primary school site and catchment. Gerry has offered to speak to parents / carers after Easter regarding secondary provision. Pupils who are currently attending Dargavel Primary have the right to remain. Siblings will be given priority for the primary school. Page 285 of 503
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Has it been 100% confirmed that pupils can stay at the current school? And siblings can also go to the current school? Transport and secondary provision Logistics and transport of new school. Cant separate secondary discussion from consultation. Transport is an issue due to PMHS Catchments and transport entitlement Catchments – if you are in new catchment area but wish to remain at Dargavel, will school bus still be provided due to distance? Extension to Dargavel and statutory consultation Is a stat consultation required for an extension at Dargavel Accepted this point that transport is an issue. There will be stand at the information session where transport and travel can be addressed. Gerry will respond directly to this question regarding transport. There is no requirement for statutory consultation on the potential extension at Dargavel Primary. This will be fed back to parents. Any other points / info The questions will be responded to via email to parents. Page 286 of 503
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Information Session – scribe template Date: 7/2/24 – 9am Scribe name: Lauren Johnston Session: Dargavel Primary School – parent conversation Council officers present: Gerry Lyons 3 parents attended • David Woodrow • Gillian Fyfe • Dawn Millar General discussion points Sessions provide an option for parents / carers to attend a more informal, open ended discussion. Consultation Gerry updated the parents on statutory consultation process. Must have a proposal to consult on as part of this. There are 2 parts; build a new school for 800 children and on an identified site. The second part is about the proposed catchment for the schools. There is a proforma for parents / carers to complete. Rationale for proposal has been based on roll projections and education provision. Confident that the proposals provides us with sufficient space. Council has recognised that there has been error made. Consultancy brought in to support work on projections. This is based on 140 intake and 150 intake and this is where the figures have come from for the new school. Proposal is for 800 however we are aware figures might be bigger and there are proposals to add additional capacity if required. This could be extension, modular units and using capacity in Bishopton. Monitoring figures yearly, particularly live data as this is more important. We will look at numbers at census and enrolment (actual and potential). Plans for new school look great. Recognise the stress that families are going through and want to minimise the stress. Understand that there are concerns about having a proposal in place and appearing as a “done deal” but this is required as part of consultation and need to be open to the possibility of looking at different options, sizes, solutions. August 2027 is our driver and when the new school will be open. This is in line with projections. Parents / carers need to be aware that different options / solutions will impact on timescales. Page 287 of 503
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Site Sites have been looked and assessed on criteria (size of site was one of the main criteria). Details of sites are outlined in papers. Options are presented. Traffic / travel Traffic has been raised as an issue. We have been monitoring this. We know this is a concern for community. Active travel should be encouraged but people will continue to use cars. We need to look at congestion. Independent traffic consultant commissioned. They have looked at issue around congestion, access and possible solution. Council will share detail of this in due course. BAE are part of this conversation as their will be responsibility on their part for some of the solution. Mr. Woodrow raised concerns around consultants being used in the area. Historically not a great relationship. Pitches There will be 2 pitches as part of the new Primary school. There will be community facilities in the new school (e.g. theatre). Consultation is about getting feedback from community on these issues. Engagement Part of our approach is community engagement and to improve on this as part of the consultation process so have given as many options for parents / carers to engage and feel listened to. We are learning from mistakes. Want to hear what people think who live in the community. Dates and approaches were shared on info session and public meetings. Identified areas which individuals would like covered in public meetings NA Specific questions raised Parent expressed that they are very happy with school and in particular senior management team. Child has significant ASN and school have been very supportive. Child is very much enjoying the school. Size of current DPS What is the size of current school in square metres compared to new school Response provided Get figure for public meeting in case raised Page 288 of 503
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Impact of new catchments and remaining in current school If child is here currently, will they be moved to new school as part of new catchment Size of new Primary School Concerns around proposed size of new school What happens if don’t reach maximum projected figure Secondary school concerns Need to start speaking now about secondary arrangements and what happens as new build communities start popping up. Will this impact on PMHS Children are entitled to stay in their current school but you will have a choice if you stay in the new catchment. Any children who have a sibling will also be prioritised in current school. Some people will be balloting which is not ideal. Internal works to increase capacity as current school. Pinch point is 2027. Project plan in place for build of new school. There are primary schools of similar size but that would be the largest. The size/space of the school is important to ensure that it works for the number of children. Figures going into the new school will be gradual. We have a range of figures provided by Edge Analytics (not adjusted, 140 and 150). It will sit somewhere between the lowest and highest. We need a plan for the highest projection. This consultation is based on the new primary school and catchment and not secondary. Communities will have the opportunity to speak more about this. Council recognises there are concerns around the figures and size of school. Gerry explained his experience of managing large schools and combining this with experiences of other schools of similar size and views of parents / carers. This will be shared and provided in due course. Need to take account of the other 7 learning communities in relation to PMHS. New buildings / communities might not necessarily be linked to PMHS. Need to consider zoning and look at options. The size of PMHS will be capped at 2000. Gerry has committed to speak to Bishopton after Easter to discuss secondary and will give DPS parents the same opportunity. Page 289 of 503
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Travel / Transport Transport figures of busing children to Bishopton. Not parental choice to send children to Bishopton and so transport should be provided to those families. Additional cars in the area raised – active travel is not always practical. School crossing patrollers Potential location of these going forward Wider infrastructure and community facilities Wider infrastructure issues raised – no health centre, 1 shop, MUGA gets locked at night. Community groups – not a lot available for children in the area. Learning from current DPS Need to take learning from the design of current Primary. Get costs for public meeting. Transport policy was outlined e.g. over 1 mile you are entitled to transport however not all will use that. Questionnaire will go out to all parents who live 1 mile or less away to understand what transport would be required. Responses will determine school transport requirements. Independent travel consultant has a detailed report and will be considered as part of planning. Range of solutions outlined. Know this is a big issue for community. Can raise with team New school proposals will look at what value it can add to the community in terms of additional facilities. Different kinds of spaces to support groups in the proposed new build. There will be 2 flood-lit pitches. Facility will be high quality and deal with some of these issues. Community is a big driver for design. School staff have been part of the Space Zero sessions. Feedback on open plan design. There are a lot more dedicated classrooms. Less open plan. Some learning plazas. Can share Space Zero presentations. Any other points / info Builders have options on land and this is a concern – impact on green space. Gerry to pick up with Mr. Woodrow PMHS and new secondary school being built – 20 minute rule. Every resource should be within 20 mins. Idea of building a new secondary school actively damages feeder school. It is not an appropriate response for a council but recognise how it would be for individual communities. Page 290 of 503
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Information Session – scribe template Date: 7/2/24 – 9am Scribe name: Lauren Johnston Session: Dargavel Primary School – parent conversation Council officers present: Gerry Lyons 2 parents attended • David Woodrow • Gillian General discussion points Sessions provide an option for parents / carers to attend a more informal, open ended discussion. Dates were shared on info session and public meetings. Meeting mainly focused on parent / carer questions. Identified areas which individuals would like covered in public meetings NA Specific questions raised Siblings and placements What is the position on siblings and P1 intake School rolls raised and how many children will be starting in P1. Response provided If there is a sibling in the school, the child will be prioritised. Statutory position outlined including placing request process. Within catchment group first and then siblings. 42 siblings starting this year and other places are balloted, deferments (15) and placing requests (8). Internal works ongoing to increase the current capacity in current DPS Page 291 of 503
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Modular Units As roll increases each year – who will be accommodate in cabins. Parent was offered a tour of the modular units. Timeframes on portakabins at Parkmains High School – concern around children always being taught in portakabins e.g. moving from a cabin in Primary and the Secondary. Roll projections / Edge Analytics Is 260 the working assumption for PMHS intake Initial roll projections different from Edge Analytics and rate of build in the area Capacity What is the maximum capacity for current and new school without modular units Cant say what the plan will always be for modular units as it is dependant on class sizes. P1 will mainly be in main building and the structure is set up well for p2-p5. Extension is planned to be ready for 2027 – modular provision wont be required once extension is in place. It is there currently for flexibility. Therefore young people won’t have the experience of always being taught in a cabin. Projected figures for PMHS were provided and S1 intake. This figure was confirmed from the roll projection board paper. Milestones were outlined in terms of when roll projections would be reviewed including census and actuals. There was a Council team who did the initial roll projections. Edge is an expert company working on Dargavel, Bishopton and the whole of Renfrewshire estate to inform wider strategy. The internal team will also compare their figures with Edge figures. The approach will also take account of live data. The data includes 15 years projection so need to review at least twice a year. All calculations are based on houses granted, applied and pending. 4322 houses is the planned amount and Edge have projected based on this figure. Gerry provided written note of max capacities for the parent / carer DPS 1 - 434 (500) with extension – 634 (700) DPS 2 – 800 max Total = 1500 Page 292 of 503
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New build v extension Why build a new school first. There is an option to extend DPS 1 first and then explore new build options. Bishopton is coming to end of life-span – why not consider a replacement rather than extensions. Pitches Muga pitch and changes to original plans. Can we push for DPS Muga to be a 3G pitch – gives another community asset to be used. Traffic and Travel Road safety a concern – Beat the Street was a positive approach There have been a number of near misses Concern that the new build will increase traffic flow in the area New secondary provision What is the magic number for a new secondary school to be built in the area Including Bishopton and potential for extending Bishopton Expect figures to level out but building to max scenario. These are all options to consider. Based on condition surveys, investment can improve Bishopton Primary and replacement is not a planned option. Plan for new Primary includes 2 3G flood-lit pitches. Parent / carers are welcome to ask the question on the MUGA pitch. Traffic and travel – there is an independent traffic consultant reviewing and solutions will be put in place to improve situation. Issue is wider because the catchment of new school is within walking distance and we are going to do a lot of work to encourage active travel. Will be available to discuss at info session. Consultant is looking at this in terms of the new school as well as BAE as they have a responsibility. Meeting with East Ren / Dundee as there are similar issues with new builds being in close proximity and how this is managed. There is no figure. We need to look at existing capacity and schools in the area before considering a new build. Any other points / info Reviewed land out the back window of the staff room. Page 293 of 503
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Appendix D DPS Information Session Evening – 14/2/24 Roll projections • Concern about numbers in the new primary and are they definitely accurate and what happens if it is higher than projected. Health and Safety - Ponds • People concerned that ponds on the walking route aren’t fenced off – what will be done about it? Balloting How will the ballots work in 25/26? Gerry explained. DPS Information Session Evening – 15/2/24 Secondary • Secondary provision and size of school • Concern about 2000 secondary school – how will that work. Catchment • Concerns around splitting up children from their established groups • Can we finalise catchments as early as we can before school opens • Will people get opportunity to move to new and will there be sufficient space to accommodate Site • Site selection – why proposed site was selected and matrix very helpful • Family very positive about particular site Facilities • Will we be able to fit a full size pitch and Muga – Cllr McLaren • Will it be possible for BFC to store equipment • Will there be spaces as the current school doesn’t have this Project delivery • Will it be finished on time • Timelines and project going to plan • Parent with child due to start in 2026 – anxious about future plans, reassured by preferred option and timetable for delivery of preferred option. Roads / travel Page 294 of 503
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• For the green parkland area around the development this is not being released until 2034 for access, can this be brought forward as would appear an ideal rural walking/activity area • Have any considerations been given to widening the roads through the village – The roads have been created in such a way as to minimise traffic speeds where possible, increasing the width of lanes encourages increased traffic speeds which is the opposite of the desired effect. • Is there any consideration of a temporary drop off pick up area for the two schools and if so how long could this be in place for and could it be made permanent • Can we have a route map of the new Bus Service (514) – GH WILL GET THIS FROM SPT • Active travel – will the routes through Central Park be lit. • Better drop-off/pick-up at existing school – too busy General • Keen to know that the new school will have more traditional style classrooms – child has hearing loss and keen we have learned from open plan style. Impressed by the space planning and wondered when construction will start. Child in P1 at the moment and sibling arriving 2025. May switch to new school if catchment allowed. • Very positive – what happens when the new school opens in terms of how quickly it will fill, could it be empty for a spell until catchment settles. Will that impact resource or would resource be shared with the existing school. Asked about ICT. Son at existing DP school. Loves it. No active travel issues. Walks every day. Quote – the antagonists will never be happy. • Will there be an acoustician appointed for the design Page 295 of 503
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26/2/24 Info session Central park development timescales Supportive of site and with planning timescales. Would prefer new schools as closer to house. Contingency planning and programme being on time Concerns around site location Numbers / roll projections. Right to remain and ballot processes – how is this managed in numbers? Early years – capacity / space / extension Catchments – closer to new building. Management of catchment re Bishopton Community facilities Sustainability of school – make sure it is sustainable Plans for site next to DPS1 which was purchased Very supportive of active travel but pavements are too narrow Supportive of wayfaring Cordite burn potential name change. Couple who live next to site E1 – concern over noise and light from floodlights in day and evening. Were told this would be mitigated during planning application. Expressed view this was dne deal and not much they could do. Preference is site 1, and split the extra 800 pupils over that site and current school site (plus C1). Site location map to be available which links up numbers to site for public (it is on a easel board) • Greenock Road and Rosalind Crescent – check catchment – should they be in Bishopton • Sachelcourt Avenue – missing from new catchment, but not in document • Station Lane – is it not a street, is this a new development? Provisions for teenagers Have we got 10 year census data and will this be part of the projections Use of pitches during school time – lets during school How long will the building last? Will it be more than 20 years. Page 296 of 503
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Info session 29/2/24 Site selection • Need to choose a second school site that is further out or further away from school – northern periphery. Slateford Road site was suggested. Further away from existing school and easing catchment. • Community members feel that the reason we have gone with preferred site is due to cost – cheapest option. • Extend school – build on greenfield site and merging with Bishopton. • Wrong place for school – too busy • If the outcome of the consultation is against the proposal, does the site automatically defer to the next highest scored in matrix – point made that the next 2 highest scoring are in relatively same location and not optimal. • Concern over traffic/access to both schools with proposed plans. Feel being rail roaded into a decision to meet 2027 deadline as other options possibly not achievable in same timescale. • Fait accompli - site 9 already selected by Council as purchased it from BAE • Other options should have been offered as part of consultation • Site 9 is cheapest site for Council to choose of all those shown - others could be achieved but more expensive • Schools should not be on same road - going to cause traffic chaos on Arrochar Drive • Why did Council not push BAE to let them consider other sites? • A site to north of Village (West of Slateford Road area – site 22) would be preferable; • Most understanding why BAE suggested sites to west would not work. • Why not use Newton Road pitch site (site 12) for new school and flip existing sports pitches to site 9. Could then plan for Bishopton / Dargavel joint PS catchment over time by redrawing New school • Lots of questions about timeline and delivery programme • In main, will it be built on time and what is the plan if not Facilities • When will drop off area be built at existing DPS • Not enough amenities in Dargavel to reflect Council Tax banding • Health facility is not adding capacity. GPs are just moving between buildings. • Concern over lack of early years provision and out of school care (plus general lack of community facilities). Catchment • Why has catchment been done this way – to merge with Bishopton. • Children are in Bishopton but have a Dargavel catchment. Once new school is open what is their entitlement and how will this affect siblings • Parkmains – similar question. Disruptive start to primary and want to avoid at secondary. • Children not getting into catchment school due number of siblings and right to remain Page 297 of 503
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Transport, travel and roads • Will the new school site have off-street car drop off facilities / area? • Will lessons be learnt by Council from existing traffic situation at DPS; • Buses dropping off from PMHS already cause significant issues on Slateford Road and elsewhere • Not realistic to think pupils will walk to primary school • Footpaths and active travel links not sufficient • How long will the construction of the road outside the two schools take • Suggestion that there is an issue with settlement of the proposed road and BAE have told residents it could take up to two years for the roads to complete Other • Council need to start planning for secondary school provision at Dargavel • Will Arrochar Drive be the same road width on section still to be built? • Any thoughts as to how to make the two schools feel connected and to minimise any chance of division with friends/neighbours going to separate schools? • Concerns that its already a done deal and its only going ahead based on costs • Why not close Bishopton and have one big school. • PMHS union rep posed some question. • When is the final consultation report due • Letter drop would be better, difficult to hear about events as child not at a nursery and other parent missed the Carealot update, though it was provided. Not currently received leaflet. Not signed up to newsletter. Saw the poster. • Parent wished his specific views to be captured. David Gunn – school is in wrong location. Serous concerns about traffic because 2 sizable schools are so close together. No concerns have been alleviated after speaking to officers this evening. Location of school has been chosen based on finance and not based on optimal conditions for the long term i.e. urgent school provision required within the next 5 years v a school location that will exist for the long-term (60-70 years). Short term choices not long term. • Impact on St John Bosco Page 298 of 503
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Appendix E Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk Statutory Public Consultation: Dargavel Primary School Public Meeting 1: Monday 19th February Minutes of Meeting Introduction and Welcome G. Lyons welcomed everyone to the meeting and thanked people for coming. He introduced the officers who were present: Renfrewshire Council Officers present: Gerry Lyons, Interim Head of Education – Chair Janie O’Neil, Director of Children’s Services Louisa Mahon, Head of Marketing and Communications Chris Dalrymple, Head of Facilities and Property Services Gerry Hannah, Head of Climate, Public Protection and Roads Frank Farrell, Programme Manager for Property Services David Love, Chief Planning Officer Introductory Presentation. G. Lyons opened the meeting with a presentation to inform discussions. He identified 2 principles which underpinned the proposals being consulted on: How do we get the best for the children? How will the new school provide facilities which will enhance the community? He emphasised that the proposal is a relevant proposal under the Act and that alternatives to that proposal will be welcomed and fully considered/ He summarised the issues which had emerged from earlier discussions and the information sessions: • Projections, numbers and pupil data • How was the site decision made? • Concerns about traffic and safety • Design of the new building • Planning for children with additional support needs Page 299 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk • Community facilities – what are they and will they be delivered? • The project plan and will it be delivered on time • Summary of the views of children Discussion/Questions and Answers Q. Can I ask about ASN and numbers of staff? A. There are a range of plans which don’t tie into teacher numbers per se. All the classrooms have client spaces and breakout spaces for children to get time just to themselves, there are spaces like that around the school, particularly important for neurodivergent children, children who struggle to cope with too much noise, you know, any breaks in routine. So, there are lots of breakout spaces, there’s one in every classroom, designed, there are additional ones-, there are support bases for children to work in small groups or to get targeted support based on the needs, so they’re built into the design of the school as well. One of the specific matters we’ve had asked of us is about children who are hearing impaired, so we are going to involve-, do a bit of a consult with an education audiologist, just to get their view on things we should definitely watch out for, things we should definitely be building in to the design of the building. We have a fundamental commitment to inclusion and to meeting the needs of all of our children, and that will inform everything that we’re doing here. And anything that we learn throughout the process, we will feed it back in but some of it is very much about the design of the building and the outdoor spaces are important from that point of view as well. So, lots of different spaces, lots of different kinds of bases for children and we’ll take on board audiology, and visual impairment as well, obviously, it goes without saying, to ensure that it’s the most inclusive school it can be. But it’s very much at the forefront of our thinking in terms of design. Q. And if there are children with higher needs, is there any thought of having extra space for people who can’t be accommodated in a mainstream school, or not in the whole, sort of, big picture of things here? Is that just not going to happen? A. Yes, so fundamentally we are committed to a presumption of mainstreaming, that’s the policy of the government and we work to that policy. And we actually are very much of the view that if we can have our children in mainstream schools, that’s where they can be. However, through our planning process and the Staged Intervention, if there are children for whom that’s not appropriate, we have a range of other options that we can use. Q. What plans are there for teachers anyway in terms of, will they get some training for kids with additional needs? A. I think, challenge in Scottish education around additional support needs, and our teachers are having to cope with an increasing number of children with additional support needs of a wide variety, actually. And certainly, the Morgan Review, which looked at additional support needs-, one of the big things in the Morgan Review was the importance of workforce development, about supporting staff in schools so that they feel equipped to support all children. We have made massive strides in inclusion in Renfrewshire in the last two, three years in terms of building our Staged Page 300 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk Intervention policy, and then wrapping support and teacher training around that. We’re going to continue to do that and we will continue to grow our expertise and our understanding of all of that. To me, that’s right at the heart of our policies, that’s not a Dargavel issue, per se, that’s a Renfrewshire Council issue, and that’s an all children in Scotland issue. Q. How do you feel you’ve got your predictions this time right, compared to the last time that was a complete and utter mess? A. So, there are a lot of aspects of the answer to that question but all of them are equally important. One is, try not to make the same mistake twice, you know, we don’t want to find ourselves in the situation, we know the pain it has caused. You and I had a big chat about that the other night, the pain that was caused to the community by the last exercise and we’ve really looked closely at why that happened. We’ve been working with a consultancy called Edge Analytics and all the projections that we have for the new schools, and for primary provision in the area, have been developed by them using a model that they’ve used across the whole of Britain. So, what that’s giving us, is a range of numbers-, so they have their own model, which took us to 1,131. We then asked them to do the same exercise from a starting point of 140 in primary one and that took us to 1,300. And then we asked them to do that with the basis of 150 at the moment in primary one, and then used their model from that starting point, and that took us to 1,500. This is not a definitive position, that we know the number, we don’t know the number, but we believe that the number will sit somewhere between that 1,100 and that 1,500, but we are putting in plans if it gets to 1,500. These the numbers as they are at the moment, so you’ve got 434 in here, as a capacity. With the modular classrooms at the moment, it’s 595 that you’ve got in the building at the moment. We’ve got 595 children in Dargavel Primary, we’ve got Bishopton Primary at the moment that can accommodate at a maximum 519, it’s not there yet but that’s the maximum that they can have. So, with current provision, we can get to 1,100, which buys us the time to build the new school. August 2027 is a crucial point because at August 2027. When you build the new school, the calculation is done on the basis of a new school of 800 and this school at 434. We could stretch it to 500 but that’s using every space, and using every nook and cranny, so we prefer not to. So, at that point, Bishopton isn’t part of the projections, it’s a separate projection for Bishopton Primary. You then have a situation where between that 800 school and this school, you could potentially accommodate the 1,300. However, if it goes to 1,500 we have the option of extending this school so that we can accommodate 1,500 between the two Dargavel Primary schools. We think that between the two Dargavel Primary schools we have planned we can meet the numbers that are projected but we have plans, and if the plans go beyond 1,500, and we’ve got no indication that they will, then Bishopton Primary still provides additional capacity for us if we need it. So, the difference I think, is two-fold, one is, the projections are more detailed, two is, there’s a plan B, there’s a plan C. Page 301 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk The other part of this which is really important is projections, inevitably the longer time goes on, become less reliable. You’ll know that, so the other part of this is that we are also monitoring the live data, so we’re monitoring the number of children in the schools every year and we’re going to do that, we think twice a year, there’s still a bit of discussion around that. But it feels to me that the right way of doing that is after census, so we take a census of all schools in Scotland in September, and that tells us how many children are actually in a building, it also tells us how many staff are in the building. We then have the enrolment process, which happens between January and March, depending on the sector, and we will take the figures again, and that will tell us who looks as though they’re coming, and we will measure that against the projections. That will allow us to make decisions if we think it’s starting to look more than we thought, or indeed less than we thought, so we think we’ve covered much more. Q. You’re saying that the total numbers are 1,500 roughly, is that inclusive of all the children going to Bishopton Primary and not just the two primary schools within Dargavel site? Or is that inclusive of all children? A. That’s the Dargavel children because that’s what we have to accommodate with the building of the new school. Q. What are the current combined school rolls for Bishopton and Dargavel at the moment, and what’s the current capacity for the two schools? A. At the moment, you’ve got 595 in here, and 450-ish in Bishopton. Q. Sorry, is that the occupancy? A. That’s the occupancy, we committed to Bishopton Primary that we wouldn’t take them above 519 and we’ve got the 595 here. We can extend that a bit, via, if we get the work done on the acoustics in here, we could potentially add in another modular classroom which would give us another 25. Q. You don’t anticipate within the next three and a half years that the existing capacity is going to get breached? A. No, 2027 is the time, if we don’t have the new build up by 2027, we’ve got an issue because the statutory requirement on us is, that we meet the needs of all catchment children. And that means, they either go into their catchment school, which is where we will end up, but if they don’t get into their catchment school they get offered the nearest available school. Up until August 2027, that is Bishopton Primary, beyond August 2027 you go beyond Bishopton Primary, you start to bring in Rashielea Primary as another one. So, we don’t want to get to that stage, that’s why August 2027 is so important Q. How confident are you about the speed of housebuilding and occupancy? A. All our projections are based on the final figure which is 4,322 houses in this area and the projection model used by Edge Analytics, which has now been mirrored by our own team, takes in number of houses, number of children per house on a formula, NHS data, migration into the local area. Page 302 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk the other thing to think about is just the rate of housebuilding, so ultimately that will be continually monitored to ensure that we are having a live data account of the occupancy of these units that are coming forward. The market might change, if the economy changes, you know, the housebuilding might slow down, it might speed up, so it’s about making sure that we continually monitor that on a live basis to ensure that we know what’s coming forward and what’s being occupied. Q. My view of that is, that’s unacceptable, we can’t have kids from Dargavel coming here, coming to the new school and actually if they don’t get in to either of those schools, they go to Bishopton. Or actually, if they don’t even get into that school they go to Rashielea, like, we can’t even get to that stage, that shouldn’t even be on the radar. A. The radar doesn’t go much beyond 1,500 because that’s a what a projection has given us as the very, very maximum. Edge Analytics and ourselves believe that the number will be less than that, we are pretty confident about that but what we can’t do, What we cannot do is take a position of, in any eventuality, us not knowing what to do. So, all I’m trying to show you there is not what we think will happen-, if you say to me, what do I think will happen, I think Dargavel village will be served by two primary schools, and those two primary schools will accommodate all the children that live in the village, I believe that’s what will happen. That’s what the basis of this proposal is but it’s incumbent on us to learn from the last experience, so that we’re saying, ‘So, if not, and it gets to that, do we have a plan?’ ‘Yes, we do.’ ‘And if, despite everything telling us it’s not the case, it goes beyond that, what then?’ So, all I’m trying to do is give you comfort, which is, we’re going into every single possible scenario but we’re planning on the scenario which we think is the one that will come through, which is the two primary schools meet the requirement. Q. You’re talking about roll projections, does that take into account the fact that, potentially in the future, there could be more than 4,322 houses built? I don’t know. A. Yes, so there are 4,200 houses consented as we currently sit, you know, ultimately the developer can’t exceed that without coming to the Council for further planning consent. So, if they come to the Council for further planning consent, at that time that’s when the consideration is then, you know, ‘Do you give them permission, and if you were to give them permission, what is the impact?’ So, ultimately, we’d be going to our education colleagues to say, you know, ‘Here’s another proposal, how do we deal with that? Is there capacity? What is the mitigation? Should that be, you know, even considered? That further consent is informed by a conversation about education provision. Q. Is that the BAE’s consent? A. Yes, that’s the BAE’s consent, so that’s the planning consent and that’s what they have in their overall masterplan. Discussion followed about numbers and how they might be calculated or responded to: Q. Because there are 2,000 houses still to be built, which is equivalent to 500 kids at the current rate. Has that been built in? Page 303 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk A Gerry Lyons: Yes, so the current rate is about 800, another 500 will take you up closer to that 1,300 that we think is the optimum figure. Yes? Q. Jack Clark: Yes, so, I’ve got a couple of points I want to make. The first one, just following on from the point about, sort of, roll numbers and things like that is, that you said that it will be between 1,100 and 1,500, so you’re projecting for it. But that’s still quite a big disparity in terms of pupil numbers, I mean, if I take the primary school that I went to, you know, 400 pupils is four times the size of the whole school that I went to. So, it’s a big number of kids, and I was just wondering what provisions were in place in terms of individual class sizes, to try and keep them around, sort of, 30 and under (Timecode: 00:40:00) pupils, and about teacher numbers and things? What plans are in place and what were you thinking of doing with that? The other thing, just around a similar, sort of, theme is, you’ve got this methodology for projecting how many kids are going to be in the school and that, and you’ll take your high, low, median. Is there enough confidence for that for going into other schools? I realise it’s a bit tangential but about projecting that and if there are schools in future going to be built, or in new estates like where I stay, in Paisley, we’ve got the Hawkhead village that’s just been built and-, A. Gerry Lyons: It’s actually not tangential, I’ll take that point first if that’s okay, because we are now in a place, in Renfrewshire Council, where we’re looking at the whole learning estate. In one of the exercises which is just about to be shared with us, Edge Analytics have done projected rolls for all of the schools in Renfrewshire Council, so that we can see, you know, how it all fits together, what the numbers are coming forward, and that will inform planning, which Janie will be very much leading, in terms of the learning estate, with all the colleagues round this table. So, that’s not just primary, that’s primary and secondary to inform learning estate planning, so that’s not a tangential point. Q. Is, or will that data be available? A. Yes, absolutely, to go back to your first point, class sizes have statutory limits associated with them. So, primary one is a maximum of 25, primary two to four is 30, and primary five to seven is a maximum of 33. Again, we would be at the very top end of the occupation of the school if we were getting to numbers like 33, but those are the, kind of, statutory maximums. The schools will not open full, so they won’t be at those maximums but again, they will be decisions made by the Head Teachers of the school, who, for example, might decide to make a class where the children are blending and working really well together a bit bigger, to enable them to make a class where the children have a few more challenges a bit smaller. We leave that with the Head Teacher of the school to decide. Q. Regarding the numbers, and just jumping back to Bishopton and Dargavel, well Bishopton, because it’s one village ultimately, Dargavel’s just a different area. Can I recommend that you don’t just look at Dargavel’s side in isolation and that you do look at Bishopton? The demographic of Bishopton has changed dramatically, Mr Woodrow, you’ve been here a long time, I have as well, I grew up in this village, when I was a child this was classed an old person’s village. It is not that anymore, it is young, it is a young person’s village. It needs to be taken into consideration. I think if you’re only considering Dargavel and not looking at Bishopton, and you think Page 304 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk there’s this gap in capacity that can be filled by Bishopton, we could end up in the same situation again. A. Yes, we have projections for Bishopton as part of the wider learning estate planning, so we’ve got that, so you don’t need to think that we’re ignoring Bishopton, we’re not. The only point I’m making about Bishopton is the fact that it’s involved at the moment, and when does it stop being involved? 43 will be the number in primary one in Bishopton once the new Dargavel is built. It has capacity for double that without the school even needing to be have any consideration of extending. It’s not out of the question to extend it, as well, so we will keep Bishopton under review as part of the wider learning estate, I suspect that won’t be my issue but it will certainly be Janie’s. But it’s really helpful for us to hear that because you understand this community better than I do, you understand it much better than I do. Q. What’s the current primary 1 in Bishopton Primary? How is it affected by Dargavel? A. 100. It will be 43 once the new school is built. However there will be capacity within the school in the event the numbers grow in future years. Discussion: There was then an expanded discussion about facilities and activities for teenagers in Bishopton. Concern was expressed about this leading to young people vandalising the area and residents stressed they would like that taken into account. This led into a discussion about the numbers for Park Mains High School and the possibility that the planned extension would not be big enough and the same problem would arise as the original problem with the primary provision. As this is not in the scope of the consultation, it in not outlined in detail in the minutes. However, the discussion is contained in the accompanying transcription of the meeting. Q. I know obviously there’s a lot more data analytics going on there but is there now more consideration to put in more listening to people that are actually on the ground doing it, rather than just sitting and going, ‘The computer says I fit 12,000 people, that’s it’? A. When you’re looking over the independent reports and the feedback you’ve had from independent organisations, then you sit and talk to David, you talk to parents, you talk to the Parent Councils, the recurring message is, ‘We told you things and you didn’t pay attention. We told you things and you discounted them. We told you things and you put them in the bin.’ We do not want anyone saying that about Renfrewshire Council, so we’re in a position just now where we’ve got this proposal on the primary school, but it’s much bigger than that. It’s the start of a more, I think, exciting approach to community engagement, a more engaged Council, I believe, a more engaged group of services, because all these guys round here have all been very clear, ‘We want to know about this, we want to get it right.’ So, we will finish the consultation and it will be what it will be, it will not be the end of the process, we will keep coming back to you with our progress, we’ll keep coming back to you with what we think the numbers are looking like, and we will invite you Page 305 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk openly to tell us what you’re finding, what you’re thinking. And all of that will be meshed together so that we continue to plan effectively to meet the needs both of the children, the families and the community. But we can’t do that ourselves and we don’t want to do it ourselves. We believe that the figures we’re getting are right but if someone comes along and says, ‘I’m telling you, there’s a lot more kids appearing in that village than we thought,’ we’re not going to say, ‘No luck, the computer said it’s not that.’ We won’t do that. Q. Yes, tell me about the design process and how the community will be kept informed of how the design is developing? A. I could take that, we discussed this last Wednesday. The design process follows a rigid process itself, it goes through-, they’re called RIBA stages, architectural stages. Right now, we are at the point where we’re trying to appoint a consultant. So, consultant architects, consultant engineers, we’re appointing them to try and get ahead of the game, obviously, so that when we do have the consultation process complete we are ready to start on a design. So, right now there isn’t a design as such because we don’t have a site. The design process as you see from the timeline up there, we’re saying that we will be on site for, I think, June, approximately 2025 and we’ll be finished by August ’27. Q. So, that’s construction commencing June ’25? And that’s based on the proposed plot that you have just now and not a different plot, I assume? A. That’s based on something as a starting point, yes. July ’25, sorry. Then July ’25 to August ’27 is the construction but there are design processes before that Q. How will the community be kept informed of what is planned to be built or proposed to be built? A. It would be similar to this I would imagine, it would be something we discuss with the client, which is education, Children’s Services, they would come to us and say, ‘We want to have, maybe, presentation sessions with boards, this is what we’re proposing.’ It’s the same answer to that last point that you made, how do we feed back to the community? So, Community Council, separate forums, I think we need to have a conversation about what the right forums are, where you want to hear from us, where you want presence from us. Those types of forums we can absolutely bring back design as it progresses. One of the questions that we asked about in terms of what we’re looking for from an architect, ‘Is an architect just prepared to come along and talk to the community about their proposals, the designs and how it’s all going to fit together?’ So, we will keep that process going, so that you know when we move from what effectively is concept planning at the moment, to more detailed design planning and what that looks like, and that’s something that we can just get feedback from you on the best way to share that. Would that be a, kind of, open evening or, you know, actual-, I’ve Page 306 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk not got the answer to that but I’m happy for you to give me the answer and I’ll make sure that all my colleagues here know about it, for you. Designers we look at, obviously, one of the questions we put to them, they have to experience in building-, obviously not building schools but engagement process, and understand the engagement process, the consultation process, and that was quite high on the questions we set. So, we don’t propose to bring every single consultant to meetings, that’s not going to help, but the lead consultant, the designer, is who is probably most appropriate and the best one to actually discuss any specific questions, queries. They would bring these, sort of, designs to these sessions. Discussion: How can we do things differently to get more people engaged in the consultation process? Details in the transcription pages 26-29 Q. Is there the possibility of the MUGA being upgraded to a 4G pitch? A. Honest answer, I don’t know, we can have that conversation but I don’t know. There then followed concluding discussions about the importance of on going community engagement as the project progresses. Peter McColl stressed the importance of people expressing views through the formal consultation process as that was the only way to be sure that views will be heard. The meeting was then brought to a conclusion with thanks to everyone for attending and taking part in the discussions so openly and respectfully. G. Lyons Page 307 of 503
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Appendix E Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk Statutory Public Consultation: Dargavel Primary School Public Meeting 2: Tuesday 5th March 2024 Minutes of Meeting Renfrewshire Council Officers present: Gerry Lyons, Interim Head of Education – Chair Janie O’Neill, Director of Children’s Services Louisa Mahon, Head of Marketing and Communications Chris Dalrymple, Head of Facilities and Property Services Gerry Hannah, Head of Climate, Public Protection and Roads Frank Farrell, Programme Manager for Property Services Alasdair Morrison, Head of Planning Introductory Presentation. G. Lyons opened the meeting with a presentation. Welcome to all of you and thank you for coming, it’s great to see so many of you here tonight. If I can just introduce myself, for those of you that I’ve not met before. I’m Gerry Lyons, I am interim Head of Service for Children’s Services in Renfrewshire Council and the lead for this statutory consultation, I will be leading and chairing proceedings tonight. I have a range of colleagues with me who you’ll meet as the night goes on, I’m not going to introduce them all just now but they’ll introduce themselves as we go through the proceedings tonight. We also have representation from Education Scotland who is here purely as an observer and will not become involved in any conversations, that’s not Education Scotland’s role, it’s to observe and to evaluate the process, and to give feedback, so that’s the way that will work from the Education Scotland perspective. I’m going to open tonight with a very short presentation because tonight is really not about you listening to me or to anyone else but much more about you getting a chance to-, for us to listen to you and we know that’s not been something that has been done in the past particularly successfully, but we are very determined to rectify that and to take a listening position on all of the issues, as far as we possibly can. So, let me just, kind of, introduce then-, and although this is a proposal which is very practical, the building of a new school in a particular place and a series of catchment areas, I think it’s worth taking some time to reflect on what sits underneath that, and to hold on to what sits underneath it, which are these two things here. That firstly, we want to deliver the highest possible Page 308 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk quality education provision for all of the children, and that’s both now and in the future, there is a pressing element to this and I’m sure we’ll talk a bit about the pressing element of it. So, we have to deliver for the children now, but we also have to deliver a facility that, in whatever number of years from now, is still worthy of those children, is still giving them an environment where they can learn and achieve their potential, so those are the two joint commitments to the children. The second principle is one which is really important to us and has been really important to loads of people we’ve spoken to, which is that community commitment, the facilities for community use which enhance the community of Bishopton and Dargavel. Already we’ve had lots of feedback from people saying that that’s something that’s really missing at the moment, that’s a real miss, and also that we set out on that road before and never really delivered that. One of the important principles is that both of these things are fundamental to the proposal. One is not ancillary to the other, they are absolutely fundamental and therefore our intent is to deliver on both of them. So, tonight is, just for the context, a public meeting, it sits within the statutory consultation guidelines that are set out by the government, and we have a set of outcomes linked to those principles that we want to deliver tonight. The first one is that transparency, and again, that’s been a criticism in the past, that we haven’t been as transparent as we could be, and tonight we are going to-, and throughout this process actually, it’s been a real guiding light for all of the officers involved, that we are transparent about facts and if we don’t have facts, about going and getting those facts, and bringing them back. About the constraints that exist and that we have to accommodate within this process and the challenges that we face, and some of those are challenges which impact very directly on you, if not all of them. So, we have to be open about that and help give a genuine picture of the situation where we are. We want to listen and we want to understand the lived experience, which for a lot of you has been very upsetting, has been challenging, and has made you very angry, and we get that, but we want to understand it better. We want to hear the widest range of views and part of this whole approach has been to get as many different ways that people could contribute as we could, so that we could hear from as many people as possible, and all the views that exist, both within the community and across the whole of Bishopton. What are the concerns and what are the thoughts? Again, so that we can inform what we’re doing by those. A statutory consultation has to start with a proposal, and we do have a proposal, but it is open to alternatives and to the possibility that there’s a better way of doing this, and we need to hear what those alternatives might be, so that we can give them consideration prior to any decision making. We want tonight to be a positive experience for everyone and I’m aware, and I’ve had it told to me in other sessions that we’ve had, that previous public meetings weren’t necessarily positive for people. We want tonight, whatever happens and whatever you feel about the outcomes, that at least you feel it’s been a positive two hours of your life, and that it was worth coming along. So, we want that for everyone tonight. So, the way we’re going to organise the session, we’ve got this quick introduction from myself, we’re then going to split into two groups. The first group will go next door and they will work with Gerry and Alistair Morrison to talk about the site, transport, and all issues associated with that. Those people are the people that are responsible for delivering on those issues, so they’re the best people to talk to. The second group will stay here with myself and we will talk about catchment areas, roll projections, admissions, all the, I suppose, education stuff. You’re not tied to any of those, you can talk about anything you want but those are the, kind of, focus. We’ll do that for about 35 minutes, Page 309 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk give or take, we’ll then have a quick comfort break and I’ll go next door, and Alistair and the team will come in here, and we’ll have the second workshop where we swap round the areas of focus. We’ll then come together about 8:40 for any final questions or any final comment, or any issues that you wanted to hear about that you’ve not had the chance to hear about. The whole design of the evening is about giving as wide a range of information and fitting in with those outcomes that we identified. The ethos of the meeting and how we want to conduct the meeting. We want it to be open, so if you’ve got something to say, it’s right and proper that you say it, I don’t want anyone to feel that they can’t say whatever they want to say, and that there’s an honest exchange of views. You will probably disagree with each other, that’s absolutely fine, but that is open and honest, and well intentioned, and holding on, I think, to those principles about getting it right for the children and for the community. We want that done with that backdrop of mutual respect and a civil way of going about our business, and that as chair, is something that I have responsibility for, to chair in a way that makes sure that that’s intact, that we hold on to finding solutions and looking forward, but not in a way that disregards what happened in the past. What happened in the past is absolutely relevant and still live for so many people, but we want to try to, kind of, give credit to that, recognise that, but also say, ‘Right, so what do we do differently moving forward?’ Lastly, that if you ask something we don’t have the answer to, we are going to tell you we don’t have the answer, but we are going to commit to finding the answer and bringing it back to you, so that there’s not a, kind of, waffling our way round things we don’t quite get. We are going to be honest and say, ‘I don’t know the answer to that but we will commit to getting it to you, and when we’ll get it to you.’ So, that is really how we want to organise the evening and hopefully run the evening, I hope you’re all comfortable with that. Let me give you a wee sense of what we’ve heard already and that may be something you’ve heard already, if you’ve been at information sessions, so apologies for that, but it maybe sets a scene for some of the discussions we’re going to have. One of the biggest conversations we’ve been having is about the numbers, of course that was one of the biggest issues the last time, if the not the biggest issue. So, ‘Are the numbers accurate? How are we making decisions? Are we thinking through all the possibilities?’ We’ve had quite a lot of chat about that. The site decision, there is a site matrix, we have gone through a scoring process, Alistair will talk to that and answer any questions about the site matrix. The decision-making process is outlined in the booklet that you can take away with you, and the timing. Consistently what I’ve said, and I’ll say it again this evening, is that August 2027 is a key date for this. We have primary one parents who are having the location of their child’s education, and primary one education, decided by a ballot. We want that situation to exist for as little time as possible, it’s on us that it does exist, so there’s no hiding from that fact, but it’s not where we want to be. I’m very aware of how important that is to all of you, and you want certainty. August 2027 is a key date for us because until then, we can manage the primary one numbers between Dargavel and Bishopton. By August 2027 we can no longer do that and the schools would then extend out to the next nearest school. We want to avoid that scenario at all costs, so timing has been one of the things that is driving our position on all of this. We know there have been huge traffic and safety concerns, we know there continue to be huge traffic and safety concerns. There was a conversation the other night about a temporary drop-off zone in this school, and you’ll get more detail of that this evening Page 310 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk from Alistair and from Frank. I had my first meeting today about the scheduling of that temporary drop-off zone and when it will be ready, and when it will be available for use. It was a very early discussion and Frank and Alistair are far better positioned to talk about that than me. We can talk about the design of the building, we have tried to learn from the experience of this building, and the experience of people who work here and who learn here, and they’ve been involved in our conversations about the new building. We’ve heard so much about community facilities, you know, the MUGA that’s in this school, which was never what people thought they were getting, about the importance of a sports pitch, sports facilities, those facilities that allow people to have clubs and have societies, and all of that kind of stuff, so we know how important that is. Questions and Answers The meeting was organised into 2 workshops led by different members of the Renfrewshire Council Team. Workshop 1 Group 1- Pupil Projections; Project Plan Workshop 2 Group 1 – Choice of Site, Traffic and Transport Issues The 2 workshops are minuted separately. Page 311 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk Workshop 1 Group 1 This workshop was led by Gerry Lyons Interim Head of Education; Chris Dalrymple Head of Facilities and Property Q. As I mentioned in the notes that I sent to you, at this stage we’ve had Space Zero, we’ve had all the consultations and presentations, at this point in time it’s words and objectives and what have you. To make a decision, in my mind, on things like basic designs and drawings should be so that people can look at that detail. Not just a whole load of words, and there have been a lot of words so far. You mentioned there that there’s a decision going to be made towards the end of March. A. The consultation process finishes at the end of March, the actual decision in terms of starting the process will be made on 23rd May. Q: Yes, but what is that decision going to be? A The decision will be that the board approves the building of a new school, what site it should be on, and that the catchment areas are whatever they are at the end of the consultation. So, that will be the decision. That starts a process that, you know, Frank and colleagues will lead around those design issues that you talk about, and that will be an important part of the process because that’s when you start to see, ‘What’s this thing going to look like?’ You’re right, that’s vitally important and we want the community to be able to influence that as much as possible, but that’s the, kind of, end of a statutory process that says, to a date-, it should be six weeks, ours has lasted about eight weeks. Then a final report, then a report from Education Scotland, which they take about three weeks of work to do, and following their report, there are then three weeks for us to consider what they come back to us with. I’m looking at my colleague over there just to see that I’m saying that properly. Then we put that to the board, the board decision is the start of a process, not the end of a process, if that makes sense. Q. From the green light going ahead to this school opening, what was that time frame? You guys don’t know the basics? A. I can give you an idea of some of the issues with the timeline for this, this was slightly different because it wasn’t built by Renfrewshire Council, it was through BAE, and they appointed their own contractors, their own design team. It was through part of the COVID period, so that timeline that you see, it took quite a bit of time to open. It shouldn’t impact on this new school because we shouldn’t have, obviously, a pandemic. So, it’s slightly different, this is obviously 400, 440, we’re going to build an 800 school, it’s a bigger (talking over each other) entirely. Q. Well, give us an estimate of a school that you’ve built of the same size without COVID. 800, well, we’re looking at two years’ construction, that’s for the new school. So, that’s construction, what about the full design phase and the ordering of materials etc? Page 312 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk So, if it’s two years’ construction, how long for design and material order? A It’s basically when we get the consultation approved, we get the go ahead to basically build on whatever site it is that you want, presumably. That date which we’ll probably say May, when is the consultation approval? So, May 24th is the decision, the technical design conclusion will take place from July to December 2024. You’ve then got planning application, am I right in saying that takes about 20 weeks? Q. Not a lot of room for error in there, is there? Tight, I don’t think it’s achievable. Q: If I could just drill into that a bit too, I think. So, looking at the programme that’s in the (inaudible), a couple of things jump out to me, I’m just curious as to the logic behind it. So, starting with the programme, we’re looking at March now, so detailed design will be now, architects appointed this month as well, why are you putting detailed planning in at March ’25? A. Because we don’t have enough important planning information to go on, we don’t think we have enough detail. Q: But your engineers, main contractors, your feedback from technical design, if they’re all dealt with before that, it’s a very unusual move. A: I would qualify that by saying this is indicative timing, if we can get the consultants appointed earlier, the planning process might commence earlier. Q. It strikes me that there’s a strategy there, in the public domain, which planning has to be, that you give us three months as a community to comment against that planning application. If it doesn’t go ahead at the eleventh hour it’s all the community’s fault because August ’27 is a key date, do you understand? A. It’s not meant to come across like that, that was never the intention, I’m sorry you read it that way, that’s not the case at all. A: I think there’s an important element, just on one of the things you said, that I want to come back to. We do not have any intention in operating in a way that says that anything that doesn’t go as we wish it to go would be the community’s fault. That’s not what we’re trying to do here, if the community tell us that there’s something better and something they would prefer, we’re going to respect that. If it doesn’t fit in with the timeline that we’d hope for, then fine, but that won’t be about fault, that will be about saying, ‘Full transparency, full recognition of what people are saying.’ If you say to me, ‘August 2027, Gerry, is really important to you but it’s not as important to this community, we’d rather stretch it out to August 2030,’ then I have got to take cognizance of that, and I would not be saying for one second, ‘Well, if it’s not dealt with by August 2027, that’s your fault.’ Because that’s not the way we want to go forward. So, I know the point you’re making, I just want to pick up that wee issue about fault. Page 313 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk Q. No, it’s fine and it’s a valid point for the room, my point isn’t about blame, it’s that the process doesn’t seem right, it doesn’t follow any project I’ve ever seen. Detailed planning is something we try and tick the box off early, to make sure you’ve got your consultants, your community, your engagement, your public-, you’d have the look, the feel, the size, the quantum, you’d have all those things done by technical design. Second to that, there are two years for the design, sorry not design, the delivery, only delivery of the project, for the school. A school that size averages about 78 to 82 weeks. There are about six months of a difference there between the two years and the eighteen months. If you had a rejig of the programme, you’d have a lot more time there, I think, to look at site selection, community engagement and the benefit of what we want as a community, rather than what feels a little like racing to a programme that looks very busy. Key points, we’ve got to get to the solution that works because I do agree, August ’27 is a very important date. I do not want to see any child failed in the education element of this community but it just feels really quick to race through this, given that I was here a year ago when we were talking about site selection, and we’re still talking about trying to get this work the best route possible. So, I’m not pointing fingers, I’m asking simple questions as to, Is this the right programme? I don’t believe it is but there’s enough time there still to look at it, change it, and see, ‘What do we want? What can we bring and what can we contribute?’ A. If I can just intrude, so my name’s Chris Dalrymple, I’m the Head of Facilities and Property Services, so Frank and I will work closely together I think as Gerry’s alluded to, and Frank has said, see if we can pull things forward, we absolutely will. We were asked to look at an indicative timescale to allow us to work through the programme, some of the comments you’ve said there are very fair. I’d like to discuss them in a wee bit more detail, I’m sure Frank would as well, as the Programme Manager for the technical unit but we want to work with the community and we really want to give as much time, in case we encounter something that we aren’t expecting, you sound like you’re in the game as well, you know what you’re talking about. We will encounter some problems, we want to give ourselves some scope so that that key date is being met, but I’d like Frank and I to discuss that a wee bit more with you as part of this consultation This is indicative, this is the indicative timescale we’ve got to meet an August ’27 date. So, yes, some of these dates might move around, you know what it’s like. We’re not going to micromanage every single activity here but the end date is August ’27 that we’ve been aiming for. So, planning application ’25, it might be earlier than that, it depends on what happens to technical design, what happens to the consultation with, obviously, the residents, the community, also with education. Q. One of the things that was raised by the community was the fact that the land that’s currently being used, or potentially going to be used, is the old ROF site. It needs remediated, it needs cleaned up. If we’d gone for a clean site, which there are quite a number of around the perimeter of the site, albeit yes, they are in green belt or whatever, but I think if there’s a will, there’s a way and that would be one way of taking things forward Page 314 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk with a bit more confidence. Because at the moment, you don’t know what you’re going to find under that ground, it could be ammonium perchlorate it could be nitrocellulose, it could be whatever because that is an old site, it’s part of the old development. We flagged this up easily last year some time but they’ve gone, ‘No,’ because of the complexities of the relationship with BAE, this was a way ahead quickly that Renfrewshire Council could get a site. A. Essentially just that BAE have remediating that site already, they’ve started to remediate it already, and they were doing that last year as well, that site and various other sites. So, the whole point is that they cleanse that site down to a standard level, be it 450 or 750 below the base, and they’re obviously going to clean that of what materials they find in there, hotspots etc. So, it should be clean if that’s the site we eventually choose, that’s what we hope. Q. Going back to the point on duration, the architect appointment is the end of this month? Frank Farrell: Yes. Q What do you base the architect appointment on? On ability or whatever? A. Well, there’s a competitive tender process that’s going on through Hub West. We’ve engaged with Hub West and I don’t know if anybody’s aware what Hub West is, it’s an organisation that authorities can use for a straight supply chain that they have available for consultants and contractors. So, they engage with the market for architects, engineers, contractors and they have a team ready to, basically, start once we agree what site it is, they can start on the design. So, they haven’t designed anything because we don’t know where we’re going to be putting it yet, so it’s really just to get a head start on the design process itself. Q. Are they looking at different architects at the moment? A. That process is being undertaken by Hub West, the same with engineers. Q. They then go into detailed design March to June, I mean, that’s a tight schedule. A. That’s detailed design commencing, then we’re going to appoint an engineer, mechanical engineer as well. They will feed in to the existing design for the architect, the architect starts first, there are various ways around it but this one’s going to feed in with the architect. So, it is tight but that doesn’t actually complete until December ’24, the technical design, there are various stages it goes through, and detailed design commences then. Q. That’s the commencing date? A. Yes, so there’s a nine-month, kind of, designing period. Q. The amount of detail that you have around the planning. You say, you want the community to be involved in the decision if there’s a better way to do something, it’s all about the children, it’s all about community investment, and you’ve just mentioned there that you’re not going to micromanage this. Having a community that has households that are full of Page 315 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk anxiety and stress over where their children are going, the discussion around primary ones having to be ferried out of the village to start a school career away from their nursery mates, their children that they socialise with in the village, that is not good for the community. So, the August ’27 date is really non-negotiable and yes, it’s very good to have the community’s input into it but do you not think you really need to take the bull by the horns a little bit here and actually put some guidance out there of what can and cannot be moved? A. Yes, I think the one of the challenges of that point is that we are very much-, not constrained, that’s not the right way of saying it, but we have to finish a period of statutory consultation. Until we finish that period of statutory consultation we can’t give, and move forward with, precise details about anything because it would be inappropriate to do so. So, while I understand what you’re saying and I understand the anxiety, nevertheless, this process is governed by a set of guidelines that are not ours and are non-negotiable. Q. That’s the standing situation but as a number of people have said, we’re talking about the same things we were talking about a year ago. So, in that timeframe you could have set out a number of things that are within the art of the possible to do, and not to do, which gives the community time to comment on that. You’ve had comment upon comment, so now we’re moving closer to that deadline of August ’27, it’s quite clearly not about the children because if it was then you would be doing more to tighten those timeframes and using things that, it’s just really disappointing just now to be at this point and you still can’t tie down a plan. A. I understand why you’re saying that, what I’m saying to you is that the team have got an indicative timeline. We will engage with you as much as we possibly can once this, we’ve done so during this process, we will continue to do so after this process, and throughout the whole process, to give as much comfort as we can around the progress that’s being made and the decisions that are being made. Inevitably, we are in a particular process at the moment and we can’t do too much until that’s finished. That’s outwith our gift, I understand your concern about it. Q. What’s the remit of the design team? Is it to design the school in isolation or is it to design the school within the masterplan? Second question, is the school going to be passive house or net zero? The Renfrewshire Council net zero policy is to be by 2030, which, this school will be finished by ’27, or sorry, started by ’27. It falls within that strategy, are we taking cognizance of that so that the school is operationally cheap to run, helping the burden on the Council? So, the first and the second part, if you don’t mind. A. Our remit within property services is to build the school, design the school but obviously we’ve got to do that in conjunction with the site itself. We obviously liaise with BAE, we’ve been doing that with this school as well. So, yes, we will be building the school, not in isolation, even though it is a standalone project for us, we’ll have to liaise with BAE, essentially, because of the access routes, active travel, various other things. Basically, it’s both, we have to design a school for our client and obviously the community, but we still have to link up with BAE. The brief to Hub West is to look for passive house certified, if we can achieve that, net zero, we can (inaudible) standards because it sounds as if you probably know the building regs Page 316 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk have become far more stringent in the last couple of months, that comes in in April. So, we will be building to the new standards and we will be looking for passive house, possibly certified building, but certainly net zero aspirations contained within. Q. To the first one, the design and masterplan, which is a good thing, looking at the current school and the situation for traffic, it’s not the best for buses. There’s no design in the masterplan for lay-bys, for parking areas, for example, so when you’re trying to drop your child off at school, like I do, you can get stuck behind twenty cars quite easily with one bus. Now, another school, assuming that site goes ahead because of time and the deals that are being done, it’s quite close in proximity so the buses then increase, the volume of traffic increases. I know there have been traffic studies done recently but we’re probably about, what, 55% roughly through the development, so there are a lot more cars and people still to come. Will the masterplan be changed as part of this process, so that we can factor in lay- bys and more provisions for the buses and the traffic during that point in time? I think legally it’s BAE’s masterplan, the Council’s remit is to protect the community in that masterplan and the vision of that masterplan. That masterplan serves the community, so yes, legally BAE have that. It’s going to really get my fires going if we hide behind BAE with that because the voice of us telling you is that we have an opportunity to change this. BAE are on the hook for aspects of it, but it’s not been built yet, so why not change that before it gets built, while there’s an opportunity to do that? You know, for me, legally, the section 75 is proportional to the original masterplan, not the current and the future masterplan. There must be something we can do there to annoy them about that, noise them up a bit, get something in our favour. A. Sorry, can I suggest that you ask that question next door? Everything associated with section 75 and all those issues is another workshop. Q. So, the detail of my question was that content but the question is, is that element in the scope of the design team? A. The school in isolation or the school within the masterplan. We have a site, potentially (inaudible), sorry, so we’ve got to make that work, if that’s the chosen site. What we then do, as I say, is liaise with BAE to see what impact that might have on their masterplan. That will be fed on from Alistair’s team back to BAE, through planning. We can’t, obviously, build the roads, separate roads outwith, we can maybe influence it, we can advise what we think is going to work following feedback from the community but we probably haven’t got, as you say, the gift to actually physically make changes until BAE sign it off. So, we need to consider everything you’re saying, take account of it just as Gerry says, discussions regarding the layout, the plan, that is probably the point that we have a better point to say, ‘Right, this doesn’t work, that works,’ and then take that back to Alistair’s team to work with BAE. at factor in. One of the key things is, we’ll be working very closely with Gerry Hannah, who’s next door, and his team. So, yes, Frank’s team and my team will be responsible for designing the building, building the bricks and mortar, but we can’t do that in isolation. We need to take in cognizance with Gerry to say, from a planning position, ‘We need to think about roads, we need to think about the drop-off.’ So, it’s a bit of both, we need that design work in there to Page 317 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk make sure the pick-ups, the drop-offs, the car parking spaces, everything linked to our colleagues in Roads will be part of that planning discussion. We just can’t answer part of the section 75 stuff, next door, because it’s Alistair and Gerry but there will be that very close working relationship between us and Gerry Hannah, and the team who are next door. Q. So, I know that there was some discussion a while back about a proposed campus to include more nursery space and more high school space. What is the estimated cost for this new primary school to be built? A. £45 Million Q. What about the extension to Park Mains? A. £30 million Q. Why is there not an option to choose one of the larger sites to have a larger campus? A. One of the answers to the question is a financial one, you’re talking about 75 million, the building of a campus as you’ve described is closer to 90 million PARK MAINS The session then spent time on a discussion about Park Mains High School being extended as the secondary provision for the issue. This is not a material component of the consultation so is not included in the minute of the Public meeting. However, the detail is contained within the accompanying transcript. ACCOUNTABILITY Q. I think in the background of what people are saying there, I think a good question to ask would be, ‘How are the Council and the Council officers going to be held accountable for the process that we’re going through just now? A. I can understand the question, one of the things about this process, and I’ve said this right from the start, and I’ll say it again tonight, is that I am the named person for this. I am leading this process, I am leading this consultation, and I believe we’re doing the right thing so I will hold myself accountable for that, and I will invite you to hold me accountable if, in fact, what I say to you is what we’re going to deliver, we don’t deliver. Q. What will be the mechanism for that? What will be the mechanism for holding you accountable? A. So, I can understand the question, one of the things about this process, and I’ve said this right from the start, and I’ll say it again tonight, is that I am the named person for this. I am leading this process, I am leading this consultation, and I believe we’re doing the right thing so I will hold myself accountable for that, and I will invite you to hold me accountable. Page 318 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk Q. Would you resign? A. I would have resigned, yes, and I would resign. this is important enough to me that I will put my reputation on the line to say, ‘I’m going to deliver this.’ If I don’t deliver it, or I make a complete mess of it, God forbid I don’t do either of the two of them, then I would go, ‘Aye, fair do’s,’ and I would walk away. Q. I was here ten years ago and I was sold the dream of one school for all, because I didn’t like the idea of two schools. I certainly don’t like the idea of three because of, just, the rivalry between them. So, to get to the, ‘Sold the dream, buy the house, build and live in a community,’ a community which is pretty much divided by a railway line that really annoys me. ‘We’re all in this together,’ we’re not, it’s either Dargavel or Bishopton, to me, it’s one. The third school is creating a bit of strength between everybody that it impacts but at the same time, it’s driving a bit more of a divide. So, the Council are front and centre for driving the success. A. Yes, absolutely, and I’m going to say two things to you about that. One is, never at any point am I going to ask this community to put their faith in anything I actually say, because why would you? What you need to see is action, you need to see transparent communication throughout the process, responsiveness to issues that have been raised, and some of those have been raised tonight, and that will be that. Building trust back with this community’s not going to take one statutory consultation, building trust back with this community’s going to take five years of delivering what we said we’d deliver. I don’t want you to think I’m saying that, you know, ‘I will be accountable so trust me,’ I don’t want you to do that. What I want you to do is to watch the actions, watch the behaviours, watch the processes and engage with them as fully as you can, as you’ve done tonight, which is brilliant, and we will help grow it and respond to things. It will only be at that point, at the end of it, that you can say to me, ‘Gerry, aye, do you know what,’ or, ‘Gerry, I told you that you were getting it wrong.’ But I don’t want trust in people, I want systems and structures that are tight, that you can look at and go, ‘Aye, that looks robust and that looks as though it’s going to drive,’ I take your point about the community, I do. COUNCIL DECISION MAKING There was then discussion about the process by which the council would make the decision about the outcome of the Public Consultation. IMPACT OF QUESTIONNAIRES Q. can you quantify how it is if we say no to the proposed site? It’s off the online or the forms that we’ve sent in? A. It’s not an X% type thing, it’s about the weight and the range of views. If we get a position that we do not think supports our position, we have to present that to the board to say, ‘This is not a supported proposal,’ and then they would make a decision one way or another. Then, potentially, it’s back to looking at another site or another plan. Page 319 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk Q. That will increase the costs because we’ve already got the site and we’ve got it for how we’ve got it. A. Not necessarily the costs but it would lead to a slippage in timeframe. PARK MAINS There was then further discussion about Park Mains, again contained in the accompanying transcript. Session End Page 320 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk Workshop 2 Group 1 Introductions by Alasdair Morrison and Gerry Hannah Q. Why are we not following the RIBA plan of works for the programme? I raised that question in the last session and the answer was a bit woolly, so your detailed planning is before starting on site by three months, why is not the RIBA plan of works? You’re following the Hub process to procure it, so it should be aligned to RIBA. A. Yes, I think where that’s come from, I’ve had that question raised before but I think it’s because what’s been presented here, in the programme timeline, in the documents is a more generic, I mean, it’s been done in a sequential way to make it look as if you’re working your way through the maze but in reality, there will be a number of things happening at the same time. But the process that we will follow will be along the lines of the RIBA process that you’re referring to. It maybe doesn’t come across like that in the way that it’s set out there. Q. March 2025, planning application, July ’25 start on site. That’s three months, okay the duration for planning if it all goes well is fine but your sequence of actually putting your detailed planning in is right at the very end. A. No, I don’t think it is, so the thing is, I don’t think when that’s come across, I think that’s the approval of the planning application, I don’t think that’s the submission of the planning application. I think it’s, again, this way of trying to show it in a, if you’ll forgive me, in a sequential manner to make the dates, but in reality, a lot of these things will be overlapping and running in parallel, that would be my interpretation of it. Q. I would expect it to be a year before, and yes, you could rejig that, but you’d be able to save about six months to nine months in that programme by actually looking at it in detail. A. I mean, you don’t want to condense and concertina everything, and then find that at the last minute we’re not able to achieve it, because as you heard from Gerry, that wouldn’t be a great scenario for us to be in. Q. My question is a two-parter, so I asked in the last session about the design remit of the consultants. Are they designing a school in isolation or are they designing a school within the definition of the masterplan? The reason I asked the question is, a school in isolation, fine, it shouldn’t be, it should be within the definition of the masterplan, the reason I ask that is because of the implications to transport. Right now, there is an issue with buses, there are no lay-bys, there’s nowhere for them to stop really, even outside the school here, it’s on the road, not off the road. For an additional school within a stone’s throw, because we aren’t getting a different site, we’re getting that site, how are all the additional transport requirements going to be taken into cognizance? Especially given that we’re not fully developed out as a masterplan, the reason I’m asking is, proportionality of the section 75, half of that main artery hasn’t been built yet, the design is up for grabs. Can we not, as an opportunity to learn from the lessons of shoehorning things in, look at the integration to the wider community and factor in the buses, the cars, the Page 321 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk active travel and all the things that we need to do to make it successful and lighten the load and pressure from this school, which is just down the road from it? A. One of the things we’ve concluded so far is, getting a transport consultant in to speak to us at an early stage. So, we realise obviously, as part of the consultation we’re taking forward a proposed site for the consultation, at that point we engaged with a transport consultant, just to do some early work, early prep work for us and not, so outwith the scope of a transport assessment to accompany the planning application, just to give us a, kind of, early head’s up in terms of the kinds of things that we should be looking out for. Some great points you made there in terms of the road and influencing the infrastructure yet to come because that was one of the key things that they picked up in terms of active travel corridors and wider, shared walking and cycling routes, and how we can deliver that working in partnership with BAE. That’s going to be a big focus for us going forward, so obviously yes, the pick-up and drop-off at the schools, those kinds of things. With the greatest will in the world this isn’t all going to be solved by active travel and we’re not silly enough to try and think that’s going to be the case but that’s going to be a big focus, on how we can encourage that as much as we possibly can. Big credit to the school, the staff here, the pupils, the parents who support active travel existing at this school, it’s the highest percentage active travel at any school across Renfrewshire. So, that’s a real positive. What we’d be looking to do is continue to work with this school and the new school in terms of the school travel plans and how we can make that as successful as we possibly can. But all of the points you’ve raised in there are things that we will be working with, with BAE and the plans going forward. Q. The active travel aspect’s part of your net zero strategy, so I understand the net zero strategy and your active travel but the active travel isn’t working. My daughter goes to this school, she is incredibly upset when there are awards being given for park and walk. I don’t park and walk, I’ve got work to get to. She is my priority in life but I’m here for 7:45, eight o’clock every day dropping her off, it’s okay at that time of day but see if you come ten, fifteen minutes later, it gets difficult. If you come about half an hour after that, it’s almost impossible and if you’re close to nine o’clock, there’s no way you’re getting to work on time. Active travel is a joke, we’re a fair-weather community on the west coast of Scotland, if it’s great and it’s sunny we’ll walk, if it’s wet, no way in hell, and if it’s snowing, no chance. It can’t be based on policies that are written for the UK and Scotland wide, it has to be something fit for purpose for this community, and active travel is not that. A. No, and again, we accept that that’s not going to be the single solution. It would be silly of us to sit here and think that was going to be the one stop shop to solve all of our problems, it’s not, it’s about how we make the school as connected as possible but recognising that there are other solutions at play as well. So, as Alasdair said, looking at the pick-up, drop-off facilities. We appreciate there is a peak in the morning, the peak’s probably spread out a lot more in the morning than it is in the afternoon and the afternoon’s probably a more condensed peak, and that’s the stuff we’ve started working with the school and Parent Council on, on how we can try and bring solutions to the table for that as well. Page 322 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk Q. With all the research that’s been done is there going to be any retro work done to this school? The walking path in from one side of the village is awful, it’s dangerous, there are children getting knocked over, there are people with prams getting pushed out of the way, there are bikes, scooters up your ankles. There are children getting injured and hurt, it’s not safe. So, with all the work that’s being done on this proposal, what is the plan to make this area safe? A. Okay, that’s a really good point and something Alasdair and I met with BAE last week to talk around, the existing infrastructure and what we can look at. So, the transport consultant is not only looked at future improvements and the, kind of, new school coming on board, but actually, ‘What can we improve existing infrastructure-wise?’ The path network around the school was an area that’s flagged up as an area to for us to work with BAE on. Just for clarity, there is a very small amount of the road network here that the Council are responsible for, it’s still in the developer’s hands, and that’s something the Council obviously looks to adopt, the road, when the developer says it’s ready for adoption. So, that’s a process we work through with BAE and we’ll continue to do so. Kevin from the Parent Council has flagged up what I would term the, kind of, remote path to link the school to the-, Q. To the path that comes through the park? A. Yes, and that’s an area that we want to follow up as a priority in terms of, there was a previous suggestion that the whole path network was three metres wide, there’s no way the whole path network is three metres wide, that’s the, kind of, standard we want to see. So, we recognise there are some pinch points, some pinch locations on the route there, Q. Is that bit owned by the Council currently? Has that been handed over? There was then discussion about the role of BAE systems and how they could be held responsible for changes to travel arrangements in the area. Q. So, my quick question was, you said it’s the highest percentage of active transport at this school, what is that percentage, and what is the Council average? What would you be projecting it to be for the new school? I’m assuming it would be no more or equal to the average for the whole area, for the whole Council. A. I don’t have the exact figures to hand and I’d need to double check that, so don’t quote me on that and I’ll be able to confirm the figures. That was, from memory, a couple of percentage points higher than the closest school. So, that’s something that we would look at as a minimum standard going forward now, because we’ve been really successful and the kids have been really successful in really promoting that. We recognise that won’t be every single day in November and December. We’re not, again, silly enough to think that’s going to be the case either. But we want to provide opportunities as much as possible. If anyone has looked at the bike sheds outside here in the morning, they are absolutely jam packed and we’ve worked with the school in providing additional infrastructure, and that’s what we would do with any new school location as well. Regardless of what site it was, we would work with the school in terms of identifying what infrastructure would make it as successful as possible for active travel. Page 323 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk Q. You’ve touched upon the provision of transportation getting into this school, obviously it’s a bit of an issue, particularly I see, around the intersection between Slateford Road and Craigton. It’s a bit crazy in the morning, so, it’s already like that, we’ve got buses taking people to Park Mains, buses taking people, I would assume, into Renfrew, to Trinity, and we’ve got buses taking people elsewhere. What are we going to do when we add another school into that mix? Is there going to be any retroactive work to the existing infrastructure, to-, do you know what I mean? You’re never going to get a bus down the road, down Slateford in the morning, to get to a new school because you can’t get a car down there in the morning. So, what’s going to be done to address that? A. The work we’ve been doing at the earliest stage just now, is purely focused on the new school for now, it’s then about taking that work and taking that much wider. Within the programme you’ll see obviously it refers to a planning application, within that planning application process we would be doing a transport assessment that looks at the transport in the widest possible sense. It’s not just about walking and wheeling to and from school, but the reason for getting the transport consultant on board so early with us, is so that we can do quite a lot of that work in advance. We don’t want to wait for a planning application to then tell us, ‘Here’s what you need to do in a relatively short period of time.’ We’re trying to get as much of that early work done that we possibly can. So, if you look at the junction capacity for instance, the junction at the bottom of the road, the traffic signals junction there, that operates at about 60% capacity, which is really, really low, really low for an urban type junction arrangement. So, what we know is, we’ve got plenty of capacity there, ‘Right, okay, so where else is a concern?’ This transport consultant will tell us where else the concern is. The example you’ve used there of buses being on the road, ‘How many buses are there going to be?’ That transport modelling, telling us where the buses are going to be going, those are the next, kind of, steps of work that we’ll be looking to take forward. Q. A few weeks ago, my wife and I passed the front of the school and we met our local police officer who was there advising some order into the drop-off location. He said he was concerned about the safety issues, so I knew I was coming to these meetings and so, a few weeks hence I decided, I might even have been watching your car, I don’t know. I stood, it’s okay. I decided to look at what was happening, so I was there round about, maybe a wee bit after you, at 8:15. There were two cars on the east side, no, no, the south side, you guys have got this north and south, east, west rubbish. Anyway, I think it’s the south side, two cars. By the time 8:55 came, there were 25 cars and then the people have got to stop when the other one’s coming the other way, the bus is there. What we have in Bishopton, in the existing school in Old Greenock Road, it’s like the dodgems sometimes. What has been created for this school is exactly the same thing, it’s not any different. What would be the solution? You mentioned lay-bys, you’ve got an undeveloped piece of land on the south side of this school, is that Renfrewshire land? A. The immediate acre and a half just, Discussion: The immediate acre and a half just, Page 324 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk M1: Right, that would be a good site for a short stay car park. A: That is the proposal that we’re currently working on, I wouldn’t call it a short stay car park, M1: Well, I think you should work on that, that would take, A: But a drop-off and pick-up location for the school. M1: Think about the capacity that you need for that car park and that would take the cars off Arrochar Drive. A: Yes, it should, if it’s successfully implemented it should make a great deal of impact on that issue that you’ve raised. Q. Whatever the location of the new school, you do the same thing? A. That is currently in the plans. Q. You were saying that the way that people are using that road isn’t the way that it was designed, how are they supposed to use it? A. Well, what I mean by that in terms of not the way that they’re using it, is that if the road infrastructure was all in place and Arrochar Drive was complete all the way up to meet Craigton Road. Q. So a through road? A. Well, what I mean by that in terms of not the way that they’re using it, is that if the road infrastructure was all in place and Arrochar Drive was complete all the way up to meet Craigton Road. Q. Is the site then, position nine or whatever it is, is that not the-, sorry, is that not then just going to force more traffic onto that junction at Slateford and Craigton? You’re then going to have the added complication of people from that end trying to this school and people from this end trying to get to the new school. Or trying to get in and out of the village. Well, yes, in the morning it’s carnage, there are people parked up on the pavement, you can’t see round the corner, there are cars everywhere, people everywhere, kids everywhere, buses everywhere. A. In terms of the junction capacity, just at Craigton and Slateford there, is that what you’re reckoning will be a pinch point? It’s one of those things that with the current road network not being fully complete, we really need to look at the transport modelling with the assumption that that road network is complete, and how the road network is then going to be used with that completed section. Again, junction capacity we’re not looking at being an issue for us, it’s more about, as you say, maybe the mention of things like the buses and how we can look at potential solutions that might be in place for the buses. From a wider infrastructure point of view, obviously the pick-up, the drop-off-, the parking facility, rather, at the train station and the completion of that is obviously going to be a thing that we’ll be looking for the developer to take forward as well. So, it’s not just focused on what we do Page 325 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk about one particular junction, it’s really looking at the traffic modelling taking in the whole of the road network and what potential solutions there might be for us. Further Discussion about road access – details in accompanying transcript. Section 75 Q. So, the question I got asked to bring to this one, I didn’t get to ask at the other one, I moved here ten years ago, I was sold the dream of a community with one school for all the kids to go to. That’s how I grew up, I went to a 600 capacity primary school, I had no problems with the capacity, I liked the idea of one school, one community. We’re now having three schools, that’s horrendous, the politics between those schools is not acceptable. But section 75, I don’t understand, I’m not fully up to speed with section 75 agreements. It was proportionality and it was based against the original design, and capacity and number of residential units in the masterplan. That’s obviously grown significantly, why has the section 75 not grown along with it, based on the new plots and units? And if it’s not, why can’t we do something retrospectively like other developments across Scotland where they charge a levy per residential unit to contribute towards the infrastructure and costs around that area? A. Okay, there’s a lot in there, so, I mean, I probably won’t have time to answer all the queries about the section 75 but in a nutshell, the original outline planning permission, in terms of the number of residential units for Dargavel was 2,500. That was the original masterplan, the community growth area, the structural growth plan of yesteryear. BAE then came forward in about 2016, something like that, I might get the years slightly off here, but 2016, 2017, with a planning application to increase that by another 1,350. At the same time as doing that, and again, I can’t offer you an explanation tonight because I wasn’t involved at the time, I wasn’t even close to the project, the Council took the decision, amongst other things, amid other decisions that were taking place which we could go into but, like I said, we probably won’t have time, in terms of the money for the Community Development Trust in Bishopton, money that was going to get put towards Newton Road playing fields. But the Council decided to then remove certain elements from within the section 75 for Dargavel as a result of granting that planning permission for the increased number of houses. I can’t answer the question as to why they did that in detail because, like I say, I wasn’t involved and I don’t think of the-, well, I know none of the officers who are here tonight were indeed still-, who are currently involved with the Council. So, that decision’s been taken, it has been, to use your terminology, watered down, if that was the terminology you used, or I’ll use that terminology. Section 75 was diluted to a significant extent between the 2012 version, the original planning application, and the 2018 version that we now have. The point you were making before about, ‘Will the new primary school be designed on the basis of, almost, from scratch, or will it be designed within the existing masterplan that we have?’ We’re faced with a number of constraints, not least of which is a masterplan that’s been agreed, a section 75 that’s been agreed, and a broad layout of where housing zones and where the infrastructure will go that’s been agreed. That is effectively baked in and that’s why we’ve only got the infrastructure that we’ve got. I can’t do anything about that as we sit here today, I can negotiate. with Gerry and other Page 326 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk colleagues. with BAE to try and make the most of what we’ve got, Louisa was involved in that meeting as well. We’ve certainly insisted that they need to do an awful lot better in terms of completing infrastructure long before the school is here, long before the second primary school, and also to make that based on a much wider, much better, much more enhanced level of path network to allow active travel to happen in the places that it can happen. We’ve still to explore and finalise the details in terms of what that’ll mean for car parking, and drop-off, and lay off, bus lay-bys and such like, we’re still in discussion with them about that. But we will be doing everything we can to make the traffic system here work as best as it can, given the circumstances that we’ve got. SESSION ENDS Page 327 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk WORKSHOP 1 AND 2 (combined) Group 2 These have been combined because the discussion was more challenging to minute. The minute of this session combines questions and summary of discussion about issues where there were comments made rather than questions asked. 1. There was initial discussion about a specific matter related to what school a child would go to and the sibling policy. SITE CHOICE Q. Talk us through, there are a lot of scores that are very close here, what was it that made the site that you’ve decided on for the proposal, why did you go with that one? A. The 23 sites that were under consideration are all set out there in the matrix and hopefully the scoring is relatively self-explanatory in terms of why scores were attributed to the individual sites. Then all that’s happened is they’ve just been put forward and populated the matrix on that basis. So, the criteria are along the lines of ownership of the site, its current development land status, how close it is to the households that will form that catchment, any additional costs that would be involved, in terms of, if you had to build new roads to it for instance, that’s obviously a significant factor. So, it’s been extrapolated through, and as you pointed out, a number of the sites score quite closely, they do. Q. We weren’t asked our opinions prior to this, which is frustrating me because it’s already been commented that if we propose a different solution, that almost puts everything back to square one. Which in my opinion means that’s presented as if that puts 2027 at risk, so if we did propose a different solution, does that put the 2027 deadline at risk? How long does it take you to get to this point, and if we proposed a different solution, how quickly could we get to the next consultation for that new solution? CHOICE OF SITE, TIMING OF PROJECT AND ALTERNATIVES There was discussion about views on the site and the consultation on the choice. There was concern expressed about the view that the site was a “done deal” and, despite the view, it was the wrong choice, there was no option to change it because of timings. The Council confirmed that the site was not a “done deal” and if the consultation outcome was that an alternative site should be chosen, then the council would respond to that, as a statutory obligation. The council has consistently stressed the importance of having the new school open by August 2027, to prevent children being sent to more than one school as there would be insufficient space in Dargavel Primary and Bishopton Primary. However, if the prevailing view was that the delay would be more important to get a preferred site, than arrangements would be made to accommodate that. There was then a statement it was the wrong site due to the significant issues with traffic which is dangerous. There was further concern about the timescale and whether it could be achieved. The person wanted that statement recorded for public record. The fact the site was central to the development was a key consideration. Page 328 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk There was then discussion about active travel. The council confirmed that active travel was not the only consideration and that a range of traffic management arrangements were being explored. There was then some discussion about other sites and why they are worthy of consideration. There was particular focus on site 22 and there was a full explanation given of the planning process as the site is in the green belt. There was then further discussion about site E1 and the arrangements being put in place, especially in terms of traffic. There was then further discussion about all aspects of the traffic issue – this is the major issue in the consultation. There was then discussion about the community facilities and how important these were. The council team stressed full commitment to the council facilities being built into the school as a priority. DESIGN OF THE SCHOOL The bulk of the discussion in the second workshop with Gerry Lyons Interim Head of Education and Emma Henry Head of Inclusion was focused on the design of the school: Strong views the school should not be open plan. Concern about: • The experience in the current school and issues with noise. • The experience of children with additional support needs in the current school. • The planned work on acoustics and when it will be completed. There was detail given about the space planning for the new build school and the consideration which had been given to providing flexible learning spaces, which could support learning in all 4 contexts for learning. There was also a commitment to keep the learning needs of all children at the centre of the design process. There was a clear statement from the Council team that the intent was not to design an open plan school and that the community would be involved in discussions as the design process developed. COMMUNITY FACILITIES There was a strong view expressed that community facilities should be fundamental to the design of the new school. There were explanations as to the impact of the current lack of facilities. The Council team renewed their commitment to the school providing a range of facilities for community use Last Session Summing Up Comments: F4: I think you guys should have had your due diligence to go back through the history, know the issues, know the questions, because a lot of them are repeat questions that we’ve asked time and time again, and never had an Page 329 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk answer. So, you guys had a due diligence to trail back through all the other recorded meetings, identify what was going to come up, because we’ve asked it before, and have an answer for us. That’s a consultation, don’t feel insulted at F4: So, they’re talking about surveys they’ve had, they’ve had 253 surveys and they’re saying that there’s an overwhelming difference in opinion on those. So, again, that’s a very small section of the community. F4: Our concern is, the people that have filled out those forms don’t necessarily have the full information at hand because if they’re not at these meetings they’re not asking probing questions to identify PR spin versus fact. That’s our concern, and that’s why tonight, we’ve had the opportunity to ask the experts, we’ve had the opportunity to decide, ‘Are we satisfied with the answer of the experts?’ I know I’m not, so that’s why it would be interesting to gauge from the room, ‘How do we feel? And does the feeling tonight represent the 253 surveys that are filled out?’ Gillian Hoyle: I have one question, when are you going to come back to us about Park Mains, the secondary allocation? Gerry Lyons: I have to finish this proposal and that will take me to Easter, and I can’t give you a precise date but some time between Easter and June I will come back and have discussions about Park Mains. Gillian Hoyle: The reason I’m asking is because I don’t think I can confidently say whether I think plot nine is the right allocation or not without understanding Park Mains, because I do not believe we’ve got the right allocation for the secondary school. Gerry Lyons: Okay, I disagree with you, I believe that I can show that, but it’s a discussion about Park Mains and this is a consultation about Dargavel Primary. Gillian Hoyle: It relates to the primary school for me. Gerry Lyons: Yes. F5: Is anything that’s said here tonight likely to change the proposal of preferred location or is it a done deal that it’s going to be-, Gerry Lyons: No, it’s not a done deal, we have to pull together, not just tonight, we’ve had another public meeting already, we’ve had all the information sessions, we’ve had the meetings with the statutory consultees, who have been-, well, I’ve not had the meeting with Dargavel Parent Council yet, I’ll do that on 12th March. I’m going to the Community Council tomorrow night, we’ve met with all the statutory consultees, we’ve met with the children, the teachers, the elected members. We have to pull all of that together as the outcome of the consultation, this is just one part of it, but having done that (Timecode: 00:40:00), we have a statutory responsibility, if we believe that Page 330 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk there are clear messages about things that need to change, to take that on board and change them. That’s what we will do if we see that as coming across clearly from the responses. Q: Gerry, what’s the timescale on that then, in terms of decision making? A: So, the statutory consultation finishes on 26th March, Education Scotland then have three weeks to do their work. So, they do, you know, they look at all of this, they’ve been here, they looked at all the documentation, they’re coming to both schools on the week beginning 26th. They then write a report, they’ve got three weeks to do that. We then have three weeks to respond to their report and then that’s all pulled together and it will be taken to a meeting of the elected members on the board on 23rd May. That will be the decision where it either goes forward or it stops and then the work, and that timeline that you’ve got there, will move forward from there. Yes. Q: If the proposed site goes ahead and you’re ready for August ’27, does that mean that the kids here get their playground back? Like, do the buildings outside get taken down? A: The temporary classrooms have got a five year warranty on them and one of the things that we have looked at is how quickly we would remove them if we get to that position, and we can move them in a-, Frank? A: A matter of weeks, so yes. Q: But the capacity, that’s the plan? A: Yes. I just wasn’t sure. What developer contributions are going to be extracted from the remaining phases of residential developments? Zero. Yes, we’re not doing that. F1: M3: Various voices: F1: Alasdair Morrison: I mean, I don’t know if it was with this group, forgive me, or if it was with the group next door earlier, but the section 75 agreement already sets out the developer contributions for the quantum of housing development for Dargavel. That’s what’s usually agreed at what’s called a planning in principle stage, which was that 2018 decision I referred to. Usually then when you come forward with your detailed layout and design of the houses, there’s no further discussion around that. That’s the normal way the planning process works, anything that comes additional in terms of developer contributions would be at the behest of BAE. Page 331 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk Q: A: Q: A Q: A: Q: A. Q: Alasdair Morrison: M3: Gerry Lyons: Kevin: There are examples around Scotland of other developments that don’t have section 75s and they apply a levy to the units of residential development built. Why are we not exploring that as a legal standpoint? I don’t know where these examples are but if you’re talking about the roof tax, as it became known in the media, it’s not legally possible to do that in Scotland. There’s case law in Aberdeenshire where they were significantly reprimanded as a Council for trying to do that with a big development to the south on one of the estates. The Highland Council are doing it. They don’t do a roof tax, they do-, They don’t do a roof tax, no, they do (talking over each other) No, it’s called a developer contribution standard, which is applied in terms of for new developments, and Renfrewshire Council is currently in the process of working towards having such approved guidance. Because there are a number of plots still to be developed and units to be built. There are. And we’ve already heard tonight, which will be minuted, and everyone already knows it anyway, that the section 75 was, as you said, diluted or watered down. Surely, we should be doing everything we can, or you as a Council should be doing everything you can, to regain as much money from the huge profits that these developers are making. Yes, well I We’re the ones left with that legacy, we’re the ones that are being robbed of a community that should be a lot stronger and better. Yes, tonight we’re talking about schools, what are these kids going to do at weekends and on evenings? When they get older and teenagers? There’s a huge capacity right now but when they’re older it’s going to be wild, and we’re left with that. Yes, one of the really interesting things that’s come up through all the conversation we’ve had is that one. ‘What about the teenagers and the young people as they go through?’ And I think that is a really important thing to look at and to have conversations about, and to explore, so that’s certainly one aspect I think will come out of this consultation, that we will have a further look at, ‘Well, what can we offer our young people so that they’re not bored, and then because they’re bored, they then start to do things that they wouldn’t normally do?’ So, it’s a really helpful input actually. Gerry, can I ask one, sorry? Page 332 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk Gerry Lyons: Aye, of course. Kevin: Just following on from that, in terms of any, kind of, building that we do with the school, anything else within Bishopton here, there’s got to be a community benefit aspect included into that in terms of the scoring matrix for any contactor etc. that’s approved. What is that going to look like for Bishopton? Is that money going to stay within Bishopton? Can we stipulate things such as contribution towards Holm Park, for instance, and the facilities there? Gerry Lyons: I need to take that back to the procurement team, Kevin, but I will because I don’t know the answer. M7: Why are procurement not here? Gerry Lyons: We, went with the biggest issues that had come up in the early stages and procurement hasn’t really been one of them but that’s a question we don’t know the answer to. Procurement will be able to give you a steer and we’ll certainly going to come back to you with that. F1: The next time can we have people who are going to come and lead the bull by the horns, instead of people that say, ‘I believe,’ ‘I don’t expect you to have trust in me,’ ‘Don’t take my word,’? It’s not acceptable to have a leader that’s representing the community, Gerry Lyons: Listen, what I’m saying to you is, M7: Don’t interrupt what the lady’s saying. Gerry Lyons: Sorry, pardon. F1: No, you’ve stood there through the whole first section using, ‘I believe,’ and saying, ‘You don’t need to trust what I’m saying,’ ‘Don’t take my words as a promise of delivery.’ No leader stands there and sets that tone, a leader leads by example. Gerry Lyons: I’m going to come back at you on that because I couldn’t disagree with you more. What a leader doesn’t do is say, ‘Believe me, believe me, believe me,’ when you believed people previous to me and they let you down. What I am asking you to do, is to watch the processes, watch the systems, watch the engagement, watch the progress through all of those things and then make a decision. Don’t take my word for it because you did that before. So, it’s not a failure of leadership in my opinion, what I’m saying to you is an honest steer, which is, ‘There’s loads to be done here, there are lots of processes to go through, were I you and I’d gone through what you’d gone through, then I would be reluctant to take someone’s word on it.’ F1: Take our (talking over each other) out of it, Page 333 of 503
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Director of Children’s Services: Janie O’Neill Council Headquarters, Renfrewshire House, Cotton Street, Paisley PA1 1TZ Website: www.renfrewshire.gov.uk Gerry Lyons: Just let me finish, and on that basis, I wouldn’t ask you to take my word for it but what I will ask you to do is to watch the actions, and hopefully at the end of that you’ll come back to me and say, ‘Gerry, you did deliver,’ and then that will be a good thing for the children. F1: (talking over each other) we want evidence, we want facts and we want information, take the emotion out of it, as a professional, on a professional level. This is not professional, it’s not been delivered professionally and we’re not-, Gerry Lyons: Okay, all I can do is to say, I note your point, thank you for making it, I completely disagree with it. F1: (talking over each other) Gerry Lyons: And that’s now nine o’clock so I have to bring it to a conclusion. Louisa Mahon: Thank you very much, everyone. F4: At what point do we find out-, so, of all the questions that have been posted out or the information grabs, what timeline are we looking at for getting that back to us? Gerry Lyons: So, once we pull all of this together, the timeline is that period between the consultation period finishing and all the reports being written. F4: (talking over each other) the transcription for tonight? Louisa Mahon: There were some key questions that we’ll get back to you asap on. If you give us, like, a week to come back to you, would that be okay? We’ve all got all your email addresses from everyone that’s here, so we can either try and get it out to you directly or we can put it out through the Parent Councils and the Community Council, would that be okay? So, key questions we’ve picked up tonight, we’ll get that (talking over each other) F4: When will the transcription for tonight’s meeting be available? Louisa Mahon: We normally have that around (talking over each other) David: The clock is ticking, the clock is ticking, we need to see action from the Council in getting this a bit better than it is. I can’t say they’re ever going to get it right, and BAE have-, they’re a corporate body, they’ve done everything that Renfrewshire Council asked them to do, and it’s the mistakes that have been made by Renfrewshire Council that have caused all of this. Gerry Lyons: Yes, and as I said at the start, we’ve got to now try to move forward to change that situation. Thank you for coming along and thank you for your participation this evening. Page 334 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 Appendix F Gerry Lyons: Janie O’Neill: David Love: Jack Lochans: Laura Miller: Gerry Lyons: Laura Miller: Gerry Lyons: Laura Miller: Gerry Lyons: Laura Miller: Gerry Lyons: Maggie Russell: Gerry Lyons: Louisa Mahon: Grant: George Morrison: Gerry Lyons: Jack Clark: Ann: Good evening, everyone, lovely to see you all and for the parents that are here, welcome. This is all about your children and that’s the most important thing. There are loads of officers here as well, so we’ll maybe do a wee round the table and let the officers introduce themselves. For those of you who don’t know me, I’m Gerry Lyons, I’m the interim Head of Service for Children’s Services in Renfrewshire. Hi, I’m Janie O’Neill, I’m the Director for Children’s Services in Renfrewshire Council. Hi, I’m David Love, the Chief Planning Officer for Renfrewshire Council. Hi, Jack Lochans Education Manager for Renfrewshire Council. Do you want me to-, You can say if you want, you’re under no pressure. (Talking over each other) just the officers. No, my name’s Laura Miller, I’m one of the-, I’m a parent of a child at this school. And what primary is your child? She’s in primary one. She’s in primary one. Yes. Okay, that’s fine. My name’s Maggie Russell, I’m the Secretary, joint Local Secretary for the EIS trade union and so, I’m interested just to hear, listen to what the information is around-, because it’ll affect, obviously, our trade union members as well. Good to see you, Maggie. Hi everyone, I’m Louisa, I’m the Head of Marketing and Communications at the Council and a member of the Corporate Management Team, so it’s lovely to see everyone here tonight, thank you for participating. I’m Grant, I’m actually a local resident of Dargavel, I just came round for that, and that’s me. George Morrison, local resident, Chairman of Bishopton Football Club, retired public sector Manager. And avid football supporter. Hi, I’m Jack Clark, I’m a resident of Paisley but I’m just interested to see what’s happening with the school. And I’m Ann, I’m not of this actual board but I’m extremely interested in what’s happening, I’m a Councillor in, sort of, South West, but I’m just extremely interested because it’s an incredibly vital thing that’s happening, so. Page 335 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 Frank Farrell: Gerry Hannah: Chris Dalrymple: Louise Chisholm: Gerry Carlton: Gillian Hoyle: Andrea McMillan: Gerry Lyons: Peter McColl: Lucy Adamson: Lauren Johnston: Gerry Lyons: I’m Frank Farrell I’m the (inaudible) Programme Manager for Property Services at Renfrewshire Council. Good evening, everyone, my name’s Gerry Hannah, I’m the Council’s Head of Climate, Public Protection and Roads. Good evening, everyone, my name’s Chris Dalrymple, I am the Head of Facilities and Property Services within Renfrewshire Council. Three hats on unfortunately, so one, my Property Services team will build the second school, secondly my Hard FM team will look after and maintain that school, and thirdly, my Soft FM team will do all the cleaning, catering and janitorial within the school. Okay, I’m Louise Chisholm, I’m one of the Deputy Heads at Dargavel. Hi everyone, I’m Gerry Carlton, I’m the Head Teacher at Dargavel. Hi, I’m Gillian Hoyle, I have a child in primary one. Hi, I’m Andrea McMillan and I’m from Education Scotland, so I’m here as an observer tonight. So, Education Scotland will do an independent report following the completion of this consultation. So, it’s a common thing for us to come along, so you might see me taking a few notes, nothing is attributed directly to people, it’s just to inform in our future report. And you’ve got colleagues there? I’m Peter McColl, I’m from the Consultation Institute, we’ve been helping to plan the consultation. Hi, I’m Lucy Adamson, I’m the Council’s Communications Manager, I work with Louisa. I’m Lauren Johnston, I’m the Service Improvement Manager for Children’s Services. I remember when I was younger, they used to say that one of the things that was unique about Partick Thistle Football Club was that at the start of every game they could get the fans to introduce themselves because there were so few of them. So, we’re, kind of, falling into that, it’s unusual that at a public consultation everybody introduces themselves but the numbers are such that we can do that. Let me just talk you through the, kind of, context of this meeting, so we’ve had some information sessions, we’ve had drop-in sessions. We are in the middle of a statutory public consultation and this is the public meeting that is a statutory requirement of any public consultation. So, it’s slightly different from the drop-ins that-, for example the one you were at last week, in that sense that this is, kind of, part of the report, everything that comes out of this is going to be included in the report. And it is an opportunity for everyone to gather thoughts and views in a more formal way. The structure of the night I’m going to take you through shortly, but I’m going to start with just an introductory presentation. It will be very short and then we can talk about how we’re going to make the night work to the benefit of the parents, primarily. I don’t really care about what’s to the Page 336 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 benefit of the officers but it’s got to benefit the parents, so we’ll try to do that. So, there are key principles in everything, certainly that I do as an education person all the way through my career, and it’s always started with the same thing, which is, ‘How do we get the best for the children?’ This whole exercise, this whole process is about, ‘How do we get the best for the children?’ In this particular context, in terms of primary provision and this statutory consultation is about that, it’s about the building of a second primary school on an identified site, and on the catchment areas for the two schools. But it’s not really about that mechanical set of issues, it’s about saying, ‘How do we get this right for the children in primary one, now, the ones that are three years old, who are going to be coming through, the ones who are not yet born, and do the very best for them?’ And sitting alongside that is that this school should also enhance this community, it should add community facilities, it should allow people in the local community to be able to take part in all kinds of activities, some sport, some performing arts, some health and fitness, whatever it’s going to be. So, the two, kind of, drivers of the proposal are the children and the community, and if we can get this right, we would expect to deliver for both. So, the outcomes of tonight are slightly, I suppose, altered because of the few numbers of parents that are here, and that will be part of conversation, I imagine. But we want to share as much information as we can, we want to be as transparent as we can possibly be, which is completely transparent, and we want you to know the facts. There is nothing here that’s off the table in terms of talking about things and we want to be completely clear about that, because that allows you to make a decision about the proposal. We want to listen, we especially want to listen to the parents, to the community representatives, to everyone that’s here with a-, I suppose, who’s got a vested interest, who are directly affected by this, we want to hear your views. And probably equally importantly, we want you to feel that your views are being heard, and are being taken seriously, and are being responded to, so that’s important. The challenge sometimes of a statutory consultation is that you need a proposal, the Act says you have to propose something, but the proposal is merely that, it’s a proposal. So, one of the things we want to know about is, ‘Are there alternatives to that proposal and which one would you like us to consider?’ So, I’ll give you an example that in one of the conversations I’ve had someone was suggesting that the first step, rather than build the new school, should be to extend this school to buy time. So, we’ve got that as an alternative proposal that we’ve had some discussions about and that will stay as a live alternative proposal throughout the consultation period, and we’ll respond to that towards the end. So, if there are other proposals then we want to hear them, and we want to consider them, and we have a statutory requirement to consider them, so we’ll certainly do that. We want everyone to feel comfortable, we want everyone to feel you can contribute and say whatever you want to say, and have that heard and responded to appropriately. And we want tonight to be positive, it doesn’t matter what the numbers are, tonight is about your child, and your child, and about your Page 337 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 community, and everyone’s community, so that’s the important thing, that you have a positive experience, and that you leave here saying, ‘Aye, that was worth doing, that was worth going to.’ You get advice about how you run public meetings and it tends to be about bigger crowds, and about respect, and-, but all I’m going to say is that every single engagement we’ve had with the community of Dargavel throughout this process has been exactly what you would want, it’s been open, it’s been frank, it’s been respectful, hopefully on both sides. And we’ve got a chance to understand the lived experience that you’ve had so that we can respond to that and make it better, and tonight’s no different, we just want to hear those things. So, tonight’s plan has shifted slightly, we wanted to get around the table and talk about all aspects of this. Depending on the numbers, we were going to split into two groups, we’re now just going to do a round table discussion. So, it is recorded, I don’t take these everywhere I go, by the way, just in case you (Timecode: 00:10:00) thought, you know, I just walk about with these big microphones. It’s not that at all, but it is recorded and that’s more about us being able to keep an accurate record of the discussion, as opposed to anything public. It’s just being able to take it, we will then take it and have it transcribed and that will allow us then to take time with what we’ve got. So, coffee break we’ll have, all the points will be discussed and covered, and then we’ll look at what happens next, and that’s what we’re hoping to do tonight. So, very quickly, this is what we’ve heard so far. So, so far we’ve had three drop-in sessions in Dargavel Primary, three drop-in sessions in Bishopton Primary, two information exchanges in here last week. I’ve met with the Parent Council of Bishopton Primary, I will meet with the Parent Council of Dargavel Primary, we’ve heard from the children and some of their stuff is up there, and some more on the screens. Both schools, Bishopton and Dargavel, I’ve met with both groups of staff to hear their views and their concerns. And then we’ve pulled together what the big issues are that have come out from that process. And the first one is, the projections, the numbers, the data, that was our issue the last time, the numbers didn’t turn out, let’s be honest, the way we expected them to, and hence the reason we’re here. So, the roll projections, then, have been a big conversation, to say, ‘Right, have you got it right? Have you learned from previous mistakes? Are you confident about your projections? Tell us more about that.’ So, we can talk more about that tonight as well, there’s no problem with that. So, part of the proposal is not just that we build a new school, it’s that we build it on a site at the north of Craigton Drive, and again, ‘How have we done that? How did we get to that?’ And if you’ve got questions about that, and people already have had-, we know there’s a big concern about traffic, we know there’s a big concern about cars, and travel, and congestion, and all of those issues, more around safety than anything else. So, again, we’ve had some discussion and we can have more discussion about that tonight. The design of the building, we’ve designed this building in a particular way. One of the really positive pieces of work that was done prior to this process was, the staff who work here have been involved in discussions about the new school, have fed in their experience of working in this school, as have Page 338 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 members of the community, parents, and various other people. And we’ve learned from that, and we’ve fed that in to the design of the new school, but we will talk a bit about the design tonight, and answer any questions that you’ve got about that. One of the particular ones we’ve have had is that the open plan is something that we would want to have another look at, and we will certainly be having another look at that at, and ‘Are we factoring in planning for children with additional support needs?’ And in terms of our commitment to all of our children, then, we absolutely have to do that, and we can talk a bit more about that as well. The second part, of course, is the community facility, 98% of parents, as we were coming out of the last situation, said, ‘This has to be a community facility, it has to provide things that we don’t have as yet, so how are we going to do that?’ And we’ve had some discussions about that, and George and I talked about that last time as well. And the project delivery, people have said, ‘August 2027 feels tight, are you going to get it ready for August 2027?’ So, we can talk more about that, we can talk about the project plan, but that’s already prompted some discussions about, ‘What might we have in place if there seem to be delays?’ I won’t say, ‘In the event that there’s a pandemic,’ because God forbid that we should have that, because we won’t have an answer if there’s a pandemic, but something smaller scale, ‘What do we do?’ So, these are all the things that have come up, as I say, alternatives are part of this process, they have to be, but more importantly, they ought to be because we want to know we’re doing the right thing for the children and for the community, so we need to know that from you. These are the things we’ve heard about so far, I’m just going to finish with what the children have said. You can have a wee wander around and see what the Dargavel children have said, it’s not too dissimilar to what the Bishopton children said. ‘It’s a bit too close to a burn,’ was their view on the site, that’s not unreasonable. They were a bit concerned about falling in, to be fair, and I, kind of, get that, so that’s quite nice. They thought the catchment was fine, ‘Make sure Bishopton doesn’t get too big, the catchment should be even,’ but they were very concerned that they’d heard that we were building the school beside a bomb factory and they wanted to know if there were still bombs in said factory. I couldn’t answer that question, I said I would come back to them to confirm there are in fact no bombs, so the children were very clear. The children have been great around welcoming Dargavel children into the school, they feel they’ve had more new people to get to know and new friends. It’s felt a bit uncomfortable at times, particularly in that interim period, as opposed to now, when the two schools were together and operating separately, and they didn’t like that, they thought that was strange, so they talked to that. They also talked about the fact that, you know, with more children in the school, ‘Is there a possibility that there might be more bullying?’ And my answer to that, to all of them, was, ‘The staff in the school, the aims of the school, the ethos of the school will make sure that that’s not the case,’ but they wanted to ask that question and their view is the most important of all. In terms of the future of Bishopton Primary they had a very clear message which was, ‘You’re not going to knock it down, are you?’ I think somebody Page 339 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 had said, ‘There’s a man coming who’s going to knock your school down,’ because until I said, ‘No,’ to that, they were a bit tense about asking that question. And they would like a more modern school, and then lastly, ‘What would make Bishopton Primary better?’ Well, they would like a zip wire, a swing and more mirrors in the toilets, so nice basic stuff there. The mirrors in the toilets were a particular issue around if you’ve got tomato ketchup on your face and you need to get it wiped off, or if your pal tells you, ‘You’ve got tomato ketchup on your face,’ and you need to check because maybe your pal’s just winding you up. So, what was great about the children was how open they were about their experience of having other children in the school and what it meant for them. But their voice is vitally important and some of what they said there is important to us, and you’ll see that from the Dargavel consultation as well. But we deliberately finish with the children because no matter what our discussion is tonight, we want to keep the children at the centre of it. Is that okay? So, there are the basics of where we are, the rest of the night is really as open ended as it has to be. I can lead on some of those issues, which I will go back to, these things here, and anybody that’s got any questions then, we’ll answer them as fully and in as much detail as we can. We’ve got the experts around the room who we will call on to give you a specific answer but that’s what we’re going to try and achieve tonight, is that okay? So, anywhere you want to start? Anyone at all? As a good teacher I always give thinking time. Louise Chisholm: Actually, Gerry, can I just ask about the ASN needs? Because that’s not something I’ve picked up a lot on, and it’s something I’ve been asked about specifically recently, and I haven’t had the answer to. I’ve got a friend who teaches at Riverbrae and she was particularly asking, and I couldn’t answer that question. What are the plans in terms of teaching numbers, or? Gerry Lyons: There are a range of plans that tend not to tie into teacher numbers per se, but much more into the way the school’s designed. So, all the classrooms have client spaces and breakout spaces for children to get time just to themselves, there are spaces like that around the school, particularly important for neurodivergent children, children who struggle to cope with too much noise, you know, any breaks in routine. So, there are lots of breakout spaces, there’s one in every classroom, designed, there are additional ones-, there are support bases for children to work in small groups or to get targeted support based on the needs, so they’re built into the design of the school as well. One of the specific matters we’ve had asked of us is about children who are hearing impaired, so we are going to involve-, do a bit of a consult with an education audiologist, just to get their view on things we should definitely watch out for, things we should definitely be building in to the design of the building. We have a fundamental commitment to inclusion and to meeting the needs (Timecode: 00:20:00) of all of our children, and that will inform everything that we’re doing here. And anything that we learn throughout the process, we will feed it back in but some of it is very much about the design of the building and the outdoor spaces are important from that point of view as Page 340 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 well. So, lots of different spaces, lots of different kinds of bases for children and we’ll take on board audiology, and visual impairment as well, obviously, it goes without saying, to ensure that it’s the most inclusive school it can be. But it’s very much at the forefront of our thinking in terms of design. Louise Chisholm: And if there are children with higher needs, is there any thought of having extra space for people who can’t be accommodated in a mainstream school, or not in the whole, sort of, big picture of things here? Is that just not going to happen? Yes, so fundamentally we are committed to a presumption of mainstreaming, that’s the policy of the government and we work to that policy. And we actually are very much of the view that if we can have our children in mainstream schools, that’s where they can be. However, through our planning process and the Staged Intervention, if there are children for whom that’s not appropriate, we have a range of other options that we can use for (talking over each other). So, they would attend schools which are already there? Yes. It’s just her thought was, that with such a large number of homes, the chances are there will potentially be children with quite high additional needs. Absolutely, and we have got the current numbers around ASN that Gerry’s provided and the Head Teacher of Bishopton provided, so we’ve got a sense of the numbers. They’re not huge and they wouldn’t be such that would cause us to have to make, I suppose, a separate provision, but they are certainly present enough that we have to be aware in our planning, and in the work that teachers do and support staff do, to make sure that the children have their needs met. But that’s an ongoing thing, we are actually going to have a separate meeting for parents with children with additional support needs, so that they can talk to us about any concerns they’re going to have. And we’ll have that fairly soon after this bit of the process. Okay, thank you. So, I realise what you said about how you’re not putting numbers on teachers or anything like that, and it’s very much around the school building and design, and everything. But, you know, what plans are there for teachers anyway in terms of, will they get some training for kids with additional needs? Or what, you know? Gerry Lyons: Louise Chisholm: Gerry Lyons: Louise Chisholm: Gerry Lyons: Louise Chisholm: Jack Clark: Gerry Lyons: So, there’s an ongoing, I think, challenge in Scottish education around additional support needs, and our teachers are having to cope with an increasing number of children with additional support needs of a wide variety, actually. And certainly, the Morgan Review, which looked at additional support needs-, one of the big things in the Morgan Review was the importance of workforce development, about supporting staff in schools so that they feel equipped to deal with the children that they have to deal with. And some of that can be very challenging, Maggie I know, has been Page 341 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 involved in some challenges around that, and members talking about that. We have made massive strides in inclusion in Renfrewshire in the last two, three years in terms of building our Staged Intervention policy, and then wrapping support around that, and teacher training around that. We’re going to continue to do that and we will continue to grow our expertise and our understanding of all of that. To me, that’s right at the heart of our policies, that’s not a Dargavel issue, per se, that’s a Renfrewshire Council issue, and that’s an all children in Scotland issue. Janie O’Neill: Absolutely, that’s what I was going to say, it’s across Scotland and obviously any support and training for the staff would be the same support and training that’s available, or will be made available to all of our teaching staff in Renfrewshire. And it’s something that, as a profession, I think we’re reflecting on at the moment because of the, you know, focus that there has been and also what’s been coming back reported at a national level, as you’ll probably be aware. But absolutely, there have been huge strides made, and again, obviously Gerry and I are more recently involved in Renfrewshire’s provision but we’re well aware of the huge strides that have been made and which will continue to be made moving forward, supporting our ASN young people. And part of the planning, as Gerry said, for the second primary school in Dargavel will incorporate that, as it will with any other new build schools moving forward. Okay, thank you, Janie. Any other specific questions just now? I’ll start with the fun one then, the numbers, everyone loves the numbers. How do you feel you’ve got your predictions this time right, compared to the last time that was a complete and utter mess? Louise Chisholm: Gerry Lyons: Grant: Gerry Lyons: So, there are lots of bits to the answer to that question but all of them are equally important. One is, try not to make the same mistake twice, you know, we don’t want to find ourselves in the situation, we know the pain it has caused. You and I had a big chat about that the other night, the pain that was caused to the community by the last exercise and we’ve really looked closely at why that happened. We’ve been working with a consultancy called Edge Analytics and all the projections that we have for the new schools, and for primary provision in the area, have been developed by them using a model that they’ve used across the whole of Britain. So, what that’s giving us, is a range of numbers-, so they have their own model, which took us to 1,131. We then asked them to do the same exercise from a starting point of 140 in primary one and that took us to 1,300. And then we asked them to do that with the basis of 150 at the moment in primary one, and then used their model from that starting point, and that took us to 1,500. This is not a definitive position, that we know the number, we don’t know the number, but we believe that the number will sit somewhere between that 1,100 and that 1,500, but we are putting in plans if it gets to 1,500. So, if I can talk you through the numbers as they are at the moment, so you’ve got 434 in here, as a capacity. With the modular classrooms at the Page 342 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 moment, I’m just looking at Gerry out of the corner of my eye, it’s 595 that you’ve got in the building at the moment. Gerry Carlton: We’ve got 595, yes. Gerry Lyons: So, we’ve got 595 children, we’ve got Bishopton Primary at the moment that can accommodate at a maximum 519, it’s not there yet but that’s the maximum that they can have. So, with the current provision, we can get to 1,100, which buys us the time to build the new school. August 2027 is a crucial point because at August 2027-, Gillian Hoyle: Sorry, can I ask a point on that? You’re saying that the total numbers are 1,500 roughly, is that inclusive of all the children going to Bishopton Primary and not just the two primary schools within Dargavel site? Or is that inclusive of all kids? Gerry Lyons: That’s the Dargavel children. Gillian Hoyle: So, that’s the Dargavel but then you’re looking at capacity of just Dargavel and Bishopton? Gerry Lyons: At the moment because that’s what we need to deliver into the new school’s build. Gillian Hoyle: But to look at the capacity we need to also look at the current capacity within Bishopton. Gerry Lyons: Yes. Gillian Hoyle: It’s all one village ultimately but the original village, the new village-, Gerry Lyons: The thing about Bishopton is, when the new school is built, it will go back. So, there are 100 in primary one just now, it will go back to 43 in primary one when the new school is built. Gillian Hoyle: I appreciate that, I’m just trying to make sure that the numbers don’t get mixed up again. Gerry Lyons: Completely get it, and anything that you say that helps not mess it up, we want to hear it. Gillian Hoyle: If you’re looking at three schools and one number, and two schools and another number, I think there might be a mess up somewhere. We need to look at those three across all areas. Gerry Lyons: No, because we’re not looking at three schools at any point in terms of what I’ve just said. The interim position is, the position between now and August 2027, that has to take in Dargavel Primary-, Gillian Hoyle: And that’s what you’re anticipating the 1,500? Gerry Lyons: No, no, that’s what it takes to, August 2027, which is a maximum of 1,000 between the two schools. Gillian Hoyle: Okay. Page 343 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 Gerry Lyons: When you build the new school, the calculation is done on the basis of a new school of 800 and this school at 434. We could stretch it to 500 but that’s using every space, and using every nook and cranny, so we prefer not to. So, at that point, Bishopton isn’t part of the projections, it’s a separate projection for Bishopton Primary. You then have a situation where between that 800 school and this school, you could potentially accommodate the 1,300. However, if it goes to 1,500 we have the option of extending this school so that we can accommodate 1,500 between the two Dargavel Primary schools. We think that between the two Dargavel Primary schools we have planned we can meet the numbers that are projected but we have plans, and if the plans go beyond 1,500, and we’ve got no indication that they will, then Bishopton Primary still provides additional capacity for us if we need it. So, the difference I think, is two-fold, one is, the projections are more detailed, two is, there’s a plan B, there’s a plan C, as opposed to, ‘Oh my God, what are we going to do now (Timecode: 00:30:00)?’ Which was, kind of, the last time. The other part of this which is really important is projections, inevitably the longer time goes on, become less reliable. You’ll know that, so the other part of this is that we are also monitoring the live data, so we’re monitoring the number of children in the schools every year and we’re going to do that, we think twice a year, there’s still a bit of discussion around that. But it feels to me that the right way of doing that is after census, so we take a census of all schools in Scotland in September, and that tells us how many children are actually in a building, it also tells us how many staff are in the building. We then have the enrolment process, which happens between January and March-ish, depending on the sector, and we will take the figures again, and that will tell us who looks as though they’re coming, and we will measure that against the projections. That will allow us to make decisions if we think it’s starting to look more than we thought, or indeed less than we thought, so we think we’ve covered much more. Okay, George. George Morrison: What are the current combined school rolls for Bishopton and Dargavel at the moment, and what’s the current capacity for the two schools? Gerry Lyons: At the moment, you’ve got 595 in here, and 450-ish in Bishopton. George Morrison: Sorry, is that the occupancy? Gerry Lyons: That’s the occupancy, we committed to Bishopton Primary that we wouldn’t take them above 519 and we’ve got the 595 here. We can extend that a bit, via, if we get the work done on the acoustics in here, we could potentially add in another modular classroom which would give us another 25. George Morrison: Right, asking the question I was really meaning to ask then is, you don’t anticipate within the next three and a half years that the existing capacity is going to get breached? Gerry Lyons: No, 2027 is the time, George, if we don’t have the new builds up by 2027, we’ve got an issue because the statutory requirement on us is, that we meet the needs of all catchment children. And that means, they either go into Page 344 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 their catchment school, which is where we will end up, but if they don’t get into their catchment school they get offered the nearest available school. Up until August 2027, that is Bishopton Primary, beyond August 2027 you go beyond Bishopton Primary, you start to bring in Rashielea Primary as another one. So, we don’t want to get to that stage, that’s why August 2027 is so important. George Morrison: It’s a bit of an off the wall question, but in terms of making the projections, presumably you’ve had to take account of housebuilding rates and occupancy. How confident are you about the (inaudible) speed of housebuilding and occupancy? Gerry Lyons: So, there are people here who know more about housebuilding and occupancy than I do but in terms of-, all our projections are based on the final figure which is 4,322 houses in this area and the projection model used by Edge Analytics, which has now been mirrored by our own team, takes in number of houses, number of children per house on a formula, NHS data, you know, migration into the local area, that kind of thing. So, it’s very extensive, David, I don’t know if you’ve got anything you would add to that. David Love: Yes, I mean, I think the other thing to think about is just the rate of housebuilding, so ultimately that will be continually monitored to ensure that we are having a live data account of the occupancy of these units that are coming forward. The market might change, if the economy changes, you know, the housebuilding might slow down, it might speed up, so it’s about making sure that we continually monitor that on a live basis to ensure that we know what’s coming forward and what’s being occupied. Janie O’Neill: (Talking over each other) Laura Miller: Oh sorry, do you want to-, Janie O’Neill: No, on you go. Laura Miller: Because that obviously didn’t happen before, I’ve lived in Dargavel village now for over ten years, and when we were sold our house we were told, ‘This is going to be an area with 2,500 houses,’ now, it’s up to, you know, what you said, 4,322 houses. I mean, is that the maximum? Because at the end of the day, I can’t see it being the maximum because there’s so much space here that, you know, more houses could be built and more houses could be built. You know, we pay such a high rate of Council tax that when a plan-, you know, I don’t know how it all works but if plans go in and it’s like, ‘Okay, we’re going to get X amount of extra houses, this is X amount of Council tax a year,’ no brainer. It’s frustrating when we’re sitting here and I’m trying not to get angry about it, but this is our kids, and when you’re sitting here thinking that, ‘We think that this will sit somewhere between 1,100 and 1,500 kids. August 2027’s a crucial point, if there are more than 1,500 then Bishopton Primary have additional capacity.’ Like, my view of that is, that’s unacceptable, we can’t have kids from Dargavel coming here, coming to the new school and actually if they don’t get in to either of those schools, they go to Bishopton. Or actually, if they don’t even get into that school they go Page 345 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 to Rashielea, like, we can’t even get to that stage, that shouldn’t even be on the radar. Gerry Lyons: No, I completely agree with you and it’s actually not on the radar. Laura Miller: Right. Gerry Lyons: The radar doesn’t go much beyond 1,500 because that’s a what a projection has given us as the very, very maximum. Now, Edge Analytics and ourselves believe that the number will be less than that, we are pretty confident about that but what we can’t do, and I understand your anger, and your anger’s perfectly justifiable, but what we cannot do-, I will come in, in a minute, I’m honestly not ignoring you. What we cannot do is take a position of, in any eventuality, us not knowing what to do. So, all I’m trying to show you there is not what we think will happen-, if you say to me, what do I think will happen, I think Dargavel village will be served by two primary schools, and those two primary schools will accommodate all the children that live in the village, I believe that’s what will happen. That’s what the basis of this proposal is but it’s incumbent on us to learn from the last experience, so that we’re saying, ‘So, if not, and it gets to that, do we have a plan?’ ‘Yes, we do.’ ‘And if, despite everything telling us it’s not the case, it goes beyond that, what then?’ So, all I’m trying to do is give you comfort, which is, we’re going into every single possible scenario but we’re planning on the scenario which we think is the one that will come through, which is the two primary schools meet the requirement. Laura Miller: And I appreciate that, and I know that you have to have things in place for eventualities, if, you know, things don’t happen. But I think my concern is, are the-, you know, you’re talking about roll projections, does that take into account the fact that, potentially in the future, there could be more than 4,322 houses built? I don’t know. Gerry Lyons: So, I’m going to led David answer that, that’s a planning issue. David Love: Yes, so there are 4,200 houses consented as we currently sit, you know, ultimately the developer can’t exceed that without coming to the Council for further planning consent. So, if they come to the Council for further planning consent, at that time that’s when the consideration is then, you know, ‘Do you give them permission, and if you were to give them permission, what is the impact?’ So, ultimately, we’d be going to our education colleagues to say, you know, ‘Here’s another proposal, how do we deal with that? Is there capacity? What is the mitigation? Should that be, you know, even considered?’ Laura Miller: Okay, so there’s a possibility that it could be exceeded but that all needs to be signed off, like, within-, David Love: That’s all subject to further consent. Gerry Lyons: That further consent is informed by a conversation about education provision. David Love: Yes. Page 346 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 Gerry Lyons: Because you can’t just keep loading and loading and you don’t have any schools. David Love: Yes. Laura Miller: No, of course, we’re in a worse position than we are just now, yes. Gerry Lyons: Absolutely but at the moment, everything we believe is that we’re going to be dealing with 4,322 houses. David Love: That’s what they’ve got consent for at the moment. Gillian Hoyle: Is that the BAE’s consent? David Love: Yes, that’s the BAE’s consent, so that’s the planning consent and there’s nothing-, Gillian Hoyle: Just now. David Love: Yes, there’s nothing to indicate that that’s-, That’s not the house builders that have committed to X amount of houses on a plot of land, that is BAE’s consent for this wider development? No, that’s what BAE have in terms of their overall master plan. Yes, the overall master plan (talking over each other). I just want to be sure on that. Okay, very patiently. The reassurance is good but bear in mind consent was given 4,200 without the infrastructure being there to support it, that’s how there’s some nervousness in the community about the process. I know, do you know, I was thinking there, George, particularly your question. I think it’s really important, and Gerry’s tried to highlight it, is that, see the last time round, a number was projected and there was a steadfast refusal to go back and look at the number again, irrespective of people like yourself, David, continually asking for it to be revisited, and that was the massive error. The key difference this time is that this will be reviewed continually, and every time we review it, and we’ve got an updated position, we’ll share it. So, that’s the key change, the whole ethos is different. What is the current Dargavel generated number of children? That’s the effect of this school and-, sorry. No, it’s okay, David, on you go, it’s fine. Because there are 2,000 houses still to be built, which is equivalent to 500 kids at the current rate. Has that been built in? Yes, so the current rate is about 800, another 500 will take you up closer to that 1,300 that we think is the optimum figure. Yes? Gillian Hoyle: David Love: LauraMiller: Gerry Lyons: George Morrison: Louisa Mahon: David: Gerry Lyons: David: Gerry Lyons: Jack Clark: Yes, so, I’ve got a couple of points I want to make. The first one, just following on from the point about, sort of, roll numbers and things like that Page 347 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 is, that you said that it will be between 1,100 and 1,500, so you’re projecting for it. But that’s still quite a big disparity in terms of pupil numbers, I mean, if I take the primary school that I went to, you know, 400 pupils is four times the size of the whole school that I went to. So, it’s a big number of kids, and I was just wondering what provisions were in place in terms of individual class sizes, to try and keep them around, sort of, 30 and under (Timecode: 00:40:00) pupils, and about teacher numbers and things? What plans are in place and what were you thinking of doing with that? The other thing, just around a similar, sort of, theme is, you’ve got this methodology for projecting how many kids are going to be in the school and that, and you’ll take your high, low, median. Is there enough confidence for that for going into other schools? I realise it’s a bit tangential but about projecting that and if there are schools in future going to be built, or in new estates like where I stay, in Paisley, we’ve got the Hawkhead village that’s just been built and-, Gerry Lyons: It’s actually not tangential, I’ll take that point first if that’s okay, because we are now in a place, in Renfrewshire Council, where we’re looking at the whole learning estate. In one of the exercises which is just about to be shared with us, Edge Analytics have done projected rolls for all of the schools in Renfrewshire Council, so that we can see, you know, how it all fits together, what the numbers are coming forward, and that will inform planning, which Janie will be very much leading, in terms of the learning estate, with all the colleagues round this table. So, that’s not just primary, that’s primary and secondary to inform learning estate planning, so that’s not a tangential point. Jack Clark: Is, or will that data be available for-, Gerry Lyons: Yes, absolutely, to go back to your first point, class sizes have statutory limits associated with them. So, primary one is a maximum of 25, primary two to four is 30, and primary five to seven is a maximum of 33. Again, we would be at the very top end of the occupation of the school if we were getting to numbers like 33, but those are the, kind of, statutory maximums. The schools will not open full, so they won’t be at those maximums but again, they will be decisions made by the Head Teachers of the school, who, for example, might decide to make a class where the children are blending and working really well together a bit bigger, to enable them to make a class where the children have a few more challenges a bit smaller. We leave that with the Head Teacher of the school to decide. Janie O’Neill: (Talking over each other) around that, obviously. That’s the decisions that would be made by the teachers, yes. Gerry Lyons: Their knowledge of the children. Jack Clark: Because it all affects, like, hiring decisions for hiring the actual teachers as well. You know, you can’t go in expecting you’re going to get, for talking’s sake, 1,500 pupils, and planning for that, and then you only get 1,200 actually. In that case, then you’ve got to lay off some teachers. Gerry Lyons: So, all staffing decisions are made on what we call, ‘per capita,’ per child, so based on the number of children in the school we will have a staffing Page 348 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 complement. One of the things that’s come back to us from the staff is, how early will we make decisions about, you know, ‘What is the number of staff in the school? How will we recruit? How will we manage that for staff?’ So, that’s been feedback in the consultation from the staff in the two schools and that will be something that we’ll factor in to our discussions. It will be a combination of things, it will be a combination of staff who may be surplus around the school, a consideration of giving people the opportunity to move, which they did in Glasgow. They built a new school in Glasgow and every school that lost children, the staff were given the opportunity to move to the new school. And then there will be recruitment in that as well and probationer opportunities. So, it’s further down the line, as you can image but there’s a fairly well-established process for recruiting staff to any new school and we’ll follow it. Gillian Hoyle: Regarding the numbers, and just jumping back to Bishopton and Dargavel, well Bishopton, because it’s one village ultimately, Dargavel’s just a different area. Can I recommend that you don’t just look at Dargavel’s side in isolation and that you do look at Bishopton? The demographic of Bishopton has changed dramatically, Mr Woodrow, you’ve been here a long time, I have as well, I grew up in this village, when I was a child this was classed an old person’s village. It is not that anymore, it is young, it is a young person’s village. It needs to be taken into consideration. David: That’s one of the areas that we feel-, the amount of modernisation to houses-, the bulk of the village came in the 50s and 60s, and I make a fairly brutal comment that they all have now gone out in boxes leaving houses, good two or three-bedroom houses, solid houses, on the market. Folk come in and look at the houses-, Gerry Lyons: That’s across the village, David? David: Across the village and that’s where Bishopton Primary’s roll is going to be different from what it is now. Gillian Hoyle: Exactly, and I think if you’re only considering Dargavel and not looking at Bishopton, and you think there’s this gap in capacity that can be filled by Bishopton, we could end up in the same situation again. Gerry Lyons: Yes, we have projections for Bishopton as part of the wider learning estate planning, so we’ve got that, so you don’t need to think that we’re ignoring Bishopton, we’re not. The only point I’m making about Bishopton is the fact that it’s involved at the moment, and when does it stop being involved? It’s a really interesting point about the changing-, Gillian Hoyle: It’s never going to be, it’s not going to stop being involved. Bishopton as a whole has changed, you put an M8 junction in, it’s now a commuter village for people to get up to Glasgow really quickly. So, young couples and families moved to the area instead of what was an older person’s village, where they were commuting, or, which was the original, sort of, demographic, were the people who were coming and working in this ROF factory. So, its demographically split fundamentally changed. Various voices confirm that ROF is Royal Ordnance Factory. Page 349 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 Gerry Lyons: Is that the bombs? Gillian Hoyle: Yes, well, it was. ROF, sorry, yes, well, it was. Various voices state that it was rockets. Gillian Hoyle: Yes, it was ammunition. Gerry Lyons: So, it was the people who worked in that factory that (talking over each other.) Gillian Hoyle: A lot of the houses that were built in the original village were built to house people that were working in the factory. Gerry Lyons: Okay, so there are a couple of things about that, one is, 43 will be the number in primary one in Bishopton once the new Dargavel is built. It has capacity for double that without the school even needing to be have any consideration of extending. It’s not out of the question to extend it, as well, so we will keep Bishopton under review as part of the wider learning estate, I suspect that won’t be my issue but it will certainly be Janie’s. But it’s really helpful for us to hear that because you understand this community better than I do, you understand it much better than I do. What’s the current primary one in Bishopton? It’s 100. And that’s because of here? Yes. David: Gerry Carlton: David: Gerry Carlton: David: 75 off 100. You’ve got 100 going to Bishopton at the moment, 103 or something. Gerry Carlton: David: 103, but I still think you’re going to be having a problem if you’re classing 43 as the end product. Gerry Lyons: Yes, but remember, it’s 43 at the moment, if it goes beyond that, it can go beyond that by quite a significant number within the current building without any issues. Janie O’Neill: I was just going to say that’s the first time I’ve heard anyone speak of the fact that things have changed so much, because part of the original, horrible, sort of, thing that went wrong was that people looked at a comparison to an old, established town, and a brand new town. It’s the first time I’ve heard anyone say, ‘But that’s changed now,’ because this all happened twenty years ago, obviously. Laura Miller: They used the numbers of the original village which was an old-, no offence to anyone but it was an old person’s village, I grew up here, it was an old person’s village. They looked at you funny when you were doing things as a kid. Gillian Hoyle: Yes, but it’s all different you see, now. Various voices talk over each other and laugh. Page 350 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 Laura Miller: That sounded a lot more dodgy than it was meant to sound but really, anything I did my mum knew about. Gerry Lyons: That’s a childhood memory that’s not gone away. Laura Miller: But it is a different village now. Janie O’Neill: So it’s changed so-, because that was obviously 20 years ago. Gillian Hoyle: But the numbers they used to project the school at that point in time were based off of the original old village. (Talking over each other) people coming to a commuter town. David: And Braehead flats. Janie O’Neill: Very interesting. David: It was one child in every seven houses, is what the original projection was, and if you kept the number that ended up there, your 342 divides-, 2,300 by 7, you get 342. Could we persuade them that that was wrong? We tried, we tried. Gillian Hoyle: Numerous, numerous. Janie O’Neill: Thankfully, it’s a completely distant team of people. Gerry Lyons: Yes, and I think David makes a really important point though, and I think it’s the point that Louisa made, people like David raised issues, questioned the numbers broadly, brought new numbers to the table, and every time they did, we just left them. We took them and went like that, ‘Not right.’ David: Corporate arrogance. Gerry Lyons: We’re not doing that this time, he loves that phrase, how many times has that man used that phrase to me? David: As many times as I’ve had a letter from Renfrewshire Council. I’m sorry, and the other thing that we’ve got to get our heads round, and you folk all have to get round, the secondary provision is going down the same way. They’ve got it wrong at the moment and they’re going to get it wrong until it comes to, ‘Oh dear, we’ve reached 2,000.’ How are you going to tell folk who live in Erskine, ‘Oh, your kids are going to have to go to the Renfrew school,’? So, that’s another subject. Gerry Lyons: I’m going to come back to that, it is another subject and it’s a subject that we’re going to engage with the community about because it’s really, really important. Just to pick up the issue about the changed nature, one of the things that we want out of this process is a better understanding of that. See what we’ve got up there around thoughts, ideas (Timecode: 00:50:00) and, you know, Peter in his advice to us, one of the things he said to us is, ‘You need to understand the lived experience of people in Dargavel village and more widely in Bishopton village,’ and I know you’re not separating the two. Gillian Hoyle: It bugs me that people do. Page 351 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 Gerry Lyons: So, listening to that from you is really, really important because I need to understand that, we all need to understand that because one of the other conversations we might be having at some point, not just now, is, ‘What do our teenagers do?’ David: Oh yes. Gerry Lyons: What do they do? Not just now, David, was the phrase (various laughing and talking over each other), did you not hear that bit of it? Gillian Hoyle: The Residents Association and the Community Council have proposed numerous things, my husband’s on the Residents Association and he has proposed numerous things which have been vetoed, ignored, shoved in the bin, to be honest. (Talking over each other) I know you were in that too. Gerry Lyons: So, there’s lots of conflict but that changing nature of this community is a really important part of this and I don’t live here, so I need you to tell me that. David’s consistently telling me it. Janie O’Neill: Sorry, Gerry, the community facilities that are going to come through as well, should be helpful in that regard, at least in terms of how we can ensure that they’re a benefit. The schools obviously, primarily, the learning estate, that’s key but as a community resource really, the drawbridge has got to be down, the doors are open, it’s got to be there for everybody. Of course, an important demographic will be teenagers as it changes again but what you’re saying there about how it’s changed over the last period of time, we’ve gone from being, you know, an older persons’, residents’ area, to now a younger families’ and so on-, ten years from now-, I’m thinking about that myself, just having moved into a new estate and then my daughter’s now just about to turn eighteen, we moved in when she was six, it’s very different-, the needs, you know, so I totally understand, thinking ahead and how things have changed. We’ve got to be on the front foot for that, that’s what’s important, just, you know, what you’re saying, and learning from, as you rightly say, Gerry, people like yourself and obviously from David as well. We want to do that, that’s what, obviously, tonight’s about as well, is getting that information-, Gillian Hoyle: Tonight’s obviously about the primary school but it needs to be taken into consideration because right now if you look at the example in Glasgow recently, where children vandalised a playpark that was recently built and absolutely destroyed it. Ultimately, they’ve done that because they didn’t have anything to do in the local area, so I know that the focus has to be on the primary school but there are wider considerations because ultimately, those teenagers are going to come, unfortunately, into schools like this and vandalise it and that’s what we do not want to happen. Gerry Lyons: Well, there are a couple of things about that. I mean, I think it’s a valid point and we don’t want young people to be bored and then take out that boredom in damaging-, I’m sure Gerry’s hugely comforted about prospect of marauding teenagers. David: It’s all happening in Bishopton. Page 352 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 Gillian Hoyle: I’m trying to protect the school. Various voices talking over each other. Gerry Lyons: It’s not happening here, it’s not happening here (talking over each other) if she was here you wouldn’t say that. Janie O’Neill: I’m just going to note these things actually up, so we can take them (inaudible) David: I know that there is vandalism at Bishopton Primary and it’s not just local, it comes from elsewhere. Gillian Hoyle: There always was. David: But you don’t have issues here. Gerry Lyons: Can I also pick up something from my experience of working in Glasgow? So, I worked in the east end of Glasgow, taking in Easterhouse, Cranhill and there were significant issues with gang violence in those areas over a period of time. And one of the things that made that better was good activities for teenage children to do, diversionary activity. Gillian Hoyle: Exactly, and that’s why I’m saying there needs to be some consideration into that. Gerry Lyons: So, I think we’re very much aware of that, I think that’s a really good part of the conversation and we’ll keep it live in the conversation to make sure that we don’t create those issues. But maybe a bit more than that, that we do the best we can for our teenagers, that’s part of this. David: A big step forward would be to get the funding to put into the development trust so they can actually get the playing fields that were meant to happen here, which money was taken out-, BAE said, ‘Fine, take it, stop RMG having power over the playing fields, leave it to the community.’ And then it got transferred but no money got transferred and BAE’s making (inaudible) of it. Gerry Lyons: Okay, thank you for that. David: But that’s one for Renfrewshire Council. Gerry Lyons: No, that’s part of the conversation, that is absolutely part of the conversation. Okay, sorry, I do apologise. Listen, I’ve been a teacher all my life, I still can’t spot a hand when it’s up, it’s absolutely ridiculous. Grant: No, it’s okay, it’s fine. Some people have put the points already, so I’ll try not to mention too much because obviously-, Gerry Lyons: No, no (talking over each other) Grant: I’m from Erskine originally, so the high schooling-, Park Mains was my high school, I was the last year at the old school before it got knocked down, my sister moved into the new school, so, before all the new, fancy facilities. Gerry Lyons: (Talking over each other) Page 353 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 Grant: No, I did have a good experience in my sixth year but I don’t want to go into the full projection, I know there’s bits going through but obviously the main bit, the main crux from before-, obviously, you know, the stuff we’ve been pushing for. I know people across different areas have been complaining about the ideas and numbers, I know even, people were worried about Park Mains when the new school got built. There was a question, because capacity was slightly less, I believe, than the previous one that was there. I don’t know if it was a better school or not, I’m not going to say the issue of having it, but is there going to be a case now along with all these projections-, I know obviously there’s a lot more data analytics going on there but is there now more consideration to put in more listening to people that are actually on the ground doing it, rather than just sitting and going, ‘The computer says I fit 12,000 people, that’s it’? Gerry Lyons: Aye, no, I mean, I think, you know that way when you’re looking over the independent reports and the feedback you’ve had from independent organisations, then you sit and talk to David, you talk to parents, you talk to the Parent Councils, the recurring message is, ‘We told you things and you didn’t pay attention. We told you things and you discounted them. We told you things and you put them in the bin.’ We do not want anyone saying that about Renfrewshire Council, so we’re in a position just now where we’ve got this proposal on the primary school, but it’s much bigger than that. It’s the start of a more, I think, exciting approach to community engagement, a more engaged Council, I believe, a more engaged group of services, because all these guys round here have all been very clear, ‘We want to know about this, we want to get it right.’ So, we will finish the consultation and it will be what it will be, it will not be the end of the process, we will keep coming back to you with our progress, we’ll keep coming back to you with what we think the numbers are looking like, and we will invite you openly to tell us what you’re finding, what you’re thinking. And all of that will be meshed together so that we continue to plan effectively to meet the needs both of the children, the families and the community. But we can’t do that ourselves and we don’t want to do it ourselves. We believe that the figures we’re getting are right but if David comes along and says, ‘Gerry, I’m telling you, there’s a hell of a lot more kids appearing in that village than we thought,’ we’re not going to say, ‘No luck, David, the computer said it’s not that.’ We won’t do that. David: Unfortunately, Bishopton at the moment, is very reticent to give out information to the community. Gerry Lyons: Yes, okay, I’m just going to listen to that (inaudible). David: We’ve got a Freedom of Information in-, Gerry Lyons: I know that. Gillian Hoyle: There have been multiple Freedom of Information requests and all of those have either been denied or ignored. David: And that’s since the Bowles Report which said, ‘You have to get-, Page 354 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 Gillian Hoyle: Yes, my husband’s put in multiple, David’s put in multiple as well and they have been ignored, so-, Gerry Lyons: Okay, the FOI process is run separately, I don’t even-, the one thing we didn’t bring was anybody to do with the FOI process but to some extent that’s you asking us for things, what I’m talking about here is you giving us things that we can work with, it’s a different thing. Gillian Hoyle: Yes, it just needs to be both ways, I do agree with the way that you’re going about things from an analytics point of view, it sounds like the right approach but we need to be able to see the outcomes of that approach. So, for example, the David Bowles report and the Edge Analytics data suggested certain numbers, that was prior to my son going into P1, those numbers you’ve taken into account. But prior to you guys doing this they were not getting taken into account. Gerry Lyons: But they weren’t beforehand, okay. Gillian Hoyle: I’m just using that as an example. Gerry Lyons: No, I know what you’re saying. Gillian Hoyle: I’m saying, we need to see that coming back from you guys, ‘Right okay, we’ve taken that on board, this is what our projection was, this is what the number is now,’ so that we can see what’s happening. Gerry Lyons: In a way, that’s about engagement throughout the whole process, isn’t it? Gillian Hoyle: Into the future. Gerry Lyons: Aye, okay, listen, I don’t think-, Gillian Hoyle: Each of your six monthly state points where you’re saying you’re going to review the numbers, it’s just about putting it up on your website so people can see it. Gerry Lyons: Just come back and tell us, aye, no, absolutely. Gillian Hoyle: You don’t need to do much more than put it up and let us see it. Gerry Lyons: We fully intend that, and again, that’s just really helpful feedback in terms of, ‘Do this properly,’ and we will certainly do that. Janie O’Neill: Louisa has made a note of all the things we’re talking about, so we’ll (talking over each other) Gerry Lyons: Louisa’s writing like billy-oh over there, and obviously we’re getting a transcription of this so we pick up everything, because that’s what we want to do, so that’s really helpful, thank you. David: There’s been far better engagement with the community in the last month than there was throughout the whole of the run up to the debacle. Gerry Lyons: Well, I think our colleagues will be pleased to hear that. David: It was a debacle. Page 355 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 Various voices talk over each other. David: You haven’t responded to David’s point yet. Gerry Lyons: Haven’t responded to what? David: John McIntosh’s invitation. Various voices talk over each other. Gerry Lyons: Excuse me, did you get that? Louise Mahon: What would help ongoing? I know you’ve mentioned the sharing of the data at every review point, but in terms of maintaining this level of engagement, what would be most helpful? David: Your education committee not being railroaded by (Timecode: 01:00:00) the politicians. Laura Miller: Children’s policy boards, the children’s services policy boards. David: Yes, policy board, there’s been-, Gillian Hoyle: I think that was a frustration across everybody, the situation became very political and what happened was two sides were basically fighting over Dargavel Primary, and ultimately that’s why people ended up going to the press because they got sick to death of us-, our kids becoming a pawn in a political game. Gerry Lyons: See when you say two sides, is that two political-, Gillian Hoyle: Political parties, yes, watch back some of those historical sessions, they were eye opening, frightening, scary, disheartening. David: I sat through the full committee meeting where virtually every Councillor in that room ate humble pie and then in the very next school board meeting it was back to the same old game. And you guys as officers, notice there aren’t any elected members here. Oh, my apologies, yes you did speak to me at that meeting, my apologies. Gerry Lyons: I had a meeting with all the elected members-, David: They’ve just got to get their act together and get it sorted out. Gillian Hoyle: They need to stop putting it in this political hotcake and trying to win points over our kids. They’re losing the respect of the village as a result. Gerry Lyons: I think holding on to that principle of getting the best for the children and young people is really worth doing, and certainly everything that we’re going to be taking to the board will come from that position. So, we will certainly make that point strongly. Janie O’Neill: We want to keep them at the centre. Gerry Lyons: Keep the children at the centre, keep the community at the centre and that gives us the best chance of getting it right, but any ideas you can give Louisa for the ongoing engagement, we would really appreciate that. You don’t Page 356 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 have to come up with it tonight, if you want to drop an email to me then by all means do that, and we will look at what’s feasible, you know. Once, I mean, David, you’ll be glad to know, now I’ve got my house in Dargavel (talking over each other)-, David: You’re joking! (Laughter) Gillian Hoyle: You wouldn’t dare. Janie O’Neill: I was having a look on my way in, I was like, ‘There are some nice properties around here, (talking over each other) much of a commute.’ Gerry Lyons: Once you see me sitting outside Sainsbury’s with a table you’ll be able to get hold of me. But that ongoing engagement’s really, really important. Gillian Hoyle: It is. Gerry Lyons: But you can help us design that, so help us design it. Gillian Hoyle: It’s how you’ll changed the mindset of this village. Gerry Lyons: Aye, okay, listen, we know it’s not going to take a couple of meetings and one consultation, (talking over each other) building community trust is-, Louisa Mahon: There are obviously a lot of topics outwith the proposal we’re consulting on tonight but I think it’s important we capture those, and that’s what we come back and speak to you about again. It’s not losing sight of the fact that there are other concerns and issues that we need to be chatting to you about regularly and working closely on. David: I’ve made the point about the funding for the development trust to actually do something. Oh sorry, my apologies. Louisa Mahon: Community development trust. Gillian Hoyle: So, if you’re looking at engagement within the community, there are already Residents Associations, there’s Bishopton Community Council. Very rarely is the Council actually able to attend those sessions, being able to attend those-, not every time, I know they’re quite frequent, I know how often my husband has to go to them. You don’t need to attend them all the time but being able to feed back into those sessions from time to time, I don’t think is a bad thing. Gerry Lyons: Yes, great, no, not at all. David: Gerry’s at the next Community Council. Gillian Hoyle: Oh, are you? David: The formal-, Gillian Hoyle: He didn’t show me in his invite, he was going through them all, he said, ‘There’s nobody from the Council.’ David: The formal consultation polity doesn’t know because the agenda’s not out yet because we’ve got another consultation on the same night, so we’ll be second. Page 357 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 So, use existing forums more effectively. Yes, the forums are there, they just-, and maybe we’re not making best use of the forums ourselves but there are opportunities. That would be appreciated. Good shout, yes, good shout, okay. And that’s to you, Louisa? Yes please. Okay. Is that okay? Okay, any other points that people want to raise, or anything you would like to hear more about? Yes, tell me about the design process and how the community will be kept informed of how the design is developing. I could take that, we discussed this last Wednesday. The design process follows quite a-, it’s quite a rigid process itself, it goes through-, they’re called RIBA stages, architectural stages. Right now, we are at the point where we’re trying to appoint a consultant. So, consultant architects, consultant engineers, we’re appointing them to try and get ahead of the game, obviously, so that when we do have the consultation process complete we are ready to start on a design. So, right now there isn’t a design as such because we don’t have a site. The design process as you see from the timeline up there, we’re saying that we will be on site for, I think, June, approximately 2025 and we’ll be finished by August ’27. I can’t see that far. So, that’s construction commencing June ’25? June ’25, yes. And that’s based on the proposed plot that you have just now and not a different plot, I assume? That’s based on something as a starting point, yes. July ’25, sorry. Then July ’25 to August ’27 is the construction but there are design processes before that. So, the process of-, How will the community be kept informed of what is planned to be built or proposed to be built? Well, essentially, it would be similar to this I would imagine, it would be something we discuss with the client, which is education, Children’s Services, they would come to us and say, ‘We want to have, maybe, presentation sessions with boards, this is what we’re proposing.’ Louisa Mahon: Gillian Hoyle: Louisa Mahon: Gerry Lyons: David: Louisa Mahon: David: Gerry Lyons: George Morrison: Frank Farrell: George Morrison: Frank Farrell: Gillian Hoyle: Frank Farrell: Gerry Lyons: Frank Farrell: George Morrison: Frank Farrell: Chris Dalrymple: It’s the same answer to that last point that you made, how do we feed back to the community? So, Community Council, separate forums, I think we need to have a conversation about what the right forums are, where you want to Page 358 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 hear from us, where you want presence from us. Those types of forums we can absolutely bring back design as it progresses. Gerry Lyons: One of the questions that we asked about in terms of what we’re looking for from an architect, ‘Is an architect just prepared to come along and talk to the community about their proposals, the designs and how it’s all going to fit together?’ So, we will keep that process going, so that you know when we move from what effectively is concept planning at the moment, to more detailed design planning and what that looks like, and that’s something that we can just get feedback from you on the best way to share that. Would that be a, kind of, open evening or, you know, actual-, I’ve not got the answer to that but I’m happy for you to give me the answer and I’ll make sure that all my colleagues here know about it, for you. Chris Dalrymple: Designers we look at, obviously, one of the questions we put to them, they have to experience in building-, obviously not building schools but engagement process, and understand the engagement process, the consultation process, and that was quite high on the questions we set. So, we don’t propose to bring every single consultant to meetings, that’s not going to help, but the lead consultant, the designer, is who is probably most appropriate and the best one to actually discuss any specific questions, queries. They would bring these, sort of, designs to these sessions. George Morrison: You’ll be doing it through Hub West, have you actually appointed firms yet? Have they been appointed yet? Chris Dalrymple: No, the Hub West process, you come to a financial close, so you can actually have interviews with your potential design team, get that set up, and then use Hub West. So, we are still a bit away from that and hopefully the consultation process will be finished before we actually start physically designing. George Morrison: My past experience when I was employed was dealing with design teams in the public sector, etc, and my experience has always been, you need to keep close tabs on them because they doing what they like to do, what they think is good, and there’s quite a communication chain, a lengthy chain between the community, education, yourself, back to the architects. The longer the chain is the harder it is to keep the people in the community informed of what’s going on. I’ve experienced that myself and I know from experience that architects, they’ve got their own concepts, their own ideas and you need to keep on top of them to try and make sure what they’re designing is what you really want rather than what they think would be a good idea. We’ve not had that many problems dealing with architects in the past, designers. Lucky you. Chris Dalrymple: George Morrison: Chris Dalrymple: Well, I think it depends what project it’s been on but for schools we’ve got quite a good track record within Renfrewshire Council. I know obviously people are going to talk about the school and the issues with that but we try and ensure that when we’re building, designing a school, it’s designed around what has been, obviously, identified by the client and what is-, not so Page 359 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 much this, this is probably quite a new process for new build schools but the design process is essential. We’ve got a team of engineers, architects, project managers, in house, a small team but we manage these jobs through-, and we have to get a consultant project manager, a consultant designer to oversee, that’s what we do. To be fair, my experience of Hub is, they were a bit easier to manage and influence, I go away back to the days of PFI and they were a lot harder to actually control and influence. You got what you were getting rather than what you wanted. Hub West want to work with us on this job. Hub’s better, yes, it’s a long-term partnership arrangement. We have done a great deal of new build schools with Hub West in the last ten years, so we are basically-, I’m not saying dictating, but directing them on what we want, and we’ll take information from this and we’ll feed that back to them. The best people to ask are the two sitting here, they have the experience, basically, of the current designed school, learning from what’s here for Dargavel and making it better for the new one. You guys know what works and what doesn’t. And they’ve done that, so Space Zero, they spoke to myself and Louise and they’ve also met with a group of staff. And you’ll see, if you read the pupil consultation (Timecode: 01:10:00), when we asked them to give us their views on the new school, they went straight for the design and it’s the open plan design. When we walked into this school, it was, like, ‘Wow, this is amazing,’ but then after a few weeks and a few months you think, ‘This is quite noisy.’ And the open plan works well, it’s got its benefits but it doesn’t suit everyone, and that’s the biggest thing that we want them to take away. I think what Gerry’s mentioned there about open plan, from my day and probably a lot of people here, cellular classrooms were the way everybody was taught, then it moved into a, sort of, cellular/open plan, and there seems to be a possibility that people want to go back into the cellular. It’s having that possibility, and I think there’s that as well. Various voices talking over each other. A flexibility, I’ve had some good feedback about the use of partitions and stuff like that, so that’s really helpful. George Morrison: Chris Dalrymple: George Morrison: Chris Dalrymple: Gillian Hoyle: Gerry Carlton: Frank Farrell: Gillian Hoyle: Gerry Lyons: Frank Farrell: That’s what I’m saying, that’s the kind of things we’ll take from Gerry, and not just this school but all schools as well, and we always do that, there are always lessons learned from feedback. There are going to be new, sort of, standards that education will say, ‘We want something changed, this is what we would require in terms of breakout areas,’ and that’s what we’ve tried to develop and evolve designs. Page 360 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 Gerry Lyons: Okay, any other questions? I do, I actually have a question that I’m going to ask of the community people and the parents that are here, which is, it doesn’t take a, you know, genius to work out that there are not that many parents here. So, we had two sessions last week with small numbers of parents attending, we’ve had tonight where we’d hoped to see a, you know, really good number. The drop-in sessions we had, the numbers were fine, we had good conversations but they weren’t big numbers. What can we do differently, or what should we be doing that we’re not already doing to hear from a bigger number of people get people along to these events so that we could hear from the whole community? Can you give me a steer on that? Gillian Hoyle: It’s difficult because you’re being tarred with what happened a year ago. All of these people came to sessions, myself included, and sat in here, and listened to us being lied to, us being told we’re liars, us being told numerous different things by certain members of the group. And people are not happy about it and do not want to have to sit here and listen to it again. There was one woman in one of our sessions who burst into tears because she was physically lied to and told that she was a liar, in the session, in front of-, I don’t even know how many people were in there, there must have been about 50 or 60 that were in there. It’s a difficult one to change. Gerry Lyons: We’ve got to break through it somehow. Gillian Hoyle: I don’t know how you can change that. Gerry Lyons: Because if you’re angry, and you’re saying you were getting angry earlier on, I want to know that. I don’t want you to be talking about how angry you are somewhere else, I want you to look my straight in the eye-, which I know you did, and you did so very well, I congratulate you on that, and tell me, ‘Gerry, I’m absolutely raging about this.’ There are people out there that I’m not hearing from and I just want to get them-, am I better just doing an online thing? Am I better sitting outside Sainsbury’s with my table with a pen, you know? Our team want to know that, don’t we Louisa? We’re frustrated and-, David: The first meeting I had in here, in the relatively recent past, on the Monday we had easily 60 or 70 people here. Gerry Lyons: We did, yes. David: Now that was because they were directly affected by what was happening, that was-, they’d been moved into Bishopton rather than here. So, they had a direct input into what their thing was. All the people in Dargavel were sold a message that this was going to be a sustainable community, that all the resources would be there, and here you’re all paying £2,152 a year to Renfrewshire Council and we’re saying, ‘What are you getting for it? You’re not even getting the grass cut.’ I’m sorry, that’s where there needs to be a completely clear-, and what the Councillors were asking-, or one side of the Council was asking for a review of the secondary provision, to take it down to what is the situation. If we had three secondary schools in this part of the world, Gryffe, Park Mains and Bishopton, about 1,000 pupils per school, that’s what you have to start talking to people about because the people Page 361 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 you’re going to affect-, it will affect them in the long term, because their primary kids are not going to get a place locally. I hold my hands up, I suffered all my school my days from being shipped out to Paisley, to go to school in Paisely. I couldn’t get involved in extramural activities because I had to get the 4:06 train to get back home or someone would be wondering where the hell I’d got to, and it’s that feeling of belonging to a community. And from that point of view, when BAE themselves said, ‘We’ll need to have a secondary school on this site after 1,500 houses are built,’ but 4,322 and it’s completely off Renfrewshire Council’s agenda. Gillian Hoyle: Can I also just say, just in general, I mean, I think, when you’re doing your information sessions, like for example your meeting tonight, which is a Monday night. You’ve got your meeting, I think, in March, the next public meeting, which is a Tuesday. So, I think it’s good that you’re doing them on different days but obviously, I think, the main issue is what you said about the way people have been treated in the past. I think, just in general, to take into account that folk have got kids at home, you know, they might not have childcare, during the day they might not be able to come in because they’re working. You know, I came to the meeting today because I know that, you know, my husband’s at home looking after the kids. He works in London, I know that by the time the March meeting comes, he’ll probably be in London, so you know, I won’t be able to go to that one. So, just in terms of logistics, not everybody will be able to-, I’d quite like to come to the one in March again, but that’s also a factor that maybe needs to be taken into account. But it’s good that you’re doing them on different days and at different times and things. Gerry Lyons: Is an online solution part of that, or is that just too simplistic to say that? Gillian Hoyle: No, I mean, I think that’s useful, I think it’s useful for people who maybe can’t get out but yes, at the end of the day you’ve got childcare, you’ve got kids who you need to get homework done, get into bed, kids who don’t want to get into bed and it takes longer than-, Gerry Lyons: Aye, so like, childcare facilities at the meeting wouldn’t help that? Gillian Hoyle: Oh no, well, I don’t-, Various voices talking over each other. Laura Miller: We would have a lot of hyper kids. Gerry Lyons: Janie said to me, ‘I’ll look after any children.’ (Laughter) Don’t deny you said it, Janie, because I heard you. But no, it is genuinely saying, there are the challenges, what’s the answer? And at the moment we’re not getting the answer because we’re not getting people-, but I take your point that there are scars there that need dealing with and how do you do that? Yes. Jack Clark: Yes, I think there are a couple of things I was just going to say on that, is that, as you’ve just said, it’s about rebuilding trust and rebuilding goodwill between the parents and between the Council and everyone else. And having, sort of, flexible options for people who can’t come in for childcare Page 362 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 but I think the other things is around the, sort of, community aspect of it. I mean, I was quite similar growing up, it was a half hour bus ride to school, I couldn’t do any, like, extracurricular activities at school. But there has been so much tonight that I’ve noticed about talking about Community Councils and Parent Councils, and things, and getting them involved. But the thing is, not everyone’s involved in their Community Council. I mean, if you take Paisely, four of the Community Councils there have gone defunct, a fifth one’s at risk of going defunct in a few weeks’ time. People just aren’t involved in the Community Councils, you can’t just use that as a way of doing it, you need to reach out, whether it’s-, Gerry Lyons: No, so, what would you suggest is a better way of doing it then? Jack Clark: Well, I think yes, having them on board where possible but also, I don’t know, just having stuff through the Council. Say, if there was, like, something that goes out from the Council, like a newsletter or something, for talking’s sake, and it says, ‘There’s a consultation on the primary school on this day at this time. There’s also a Zoom link if you want to come along on Zoom.’ And just being more direct with people rather than doing it through, like, a third party like a Community Council. Gerry Lyons: Alright, okay. David: My comment is that it’s far better since-, well, I’m saying the last three or four months, you’re getting updates every so often online. Some of it’s relevant, a lot of it’s other places but you see things happening and from that point of view, it’s a bit of a building block towards re-engaging. Gillian Hoyle: Exactly. Laura Miller: That’s what we want. Gillian Hoyle: We need to start-, I think you’re not-, Gerry Lyons: And we know it’s not a (talking over each other) process. Gillian Hoyle: I don’t think you’re going to start seeing the numbers coming to this again until you’ve started to make in-roads, until they’ve started to see the changes happening. That’s why I was saying about continually reporting the numbers and see where you-, people are seeing change, seeing the difference and then will want to be engaged. Gerry Lyons: So, are we suggesting then that the public consultation will not be the right forum for that, it will go beyond that? Gillian Hoyle: This is a long-term thing, this isn’t a quick win. Gerry Lyons: No, I know that anyway, but what I mean is in terms of making this consultation work, which only runs until the end of March, that we should just-, I don’t mean resign ourselves because I never give up on anything-, Gillian Hoyle: You need to go with what you’ve got. Gerry Lyons: But we just need to keep doing what we’re doing but recognising we might be doing it to small numbers, but each one maybe matters. Page 363 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 Janie O’Neill: My intention’s not to get to the end of the consultation and say, ‘Right, that’s it,’ (Timecode: 01:20:00) it’s about continuous engagement with the communities, and this is hopefully, as you say, a building block. We understand it’s not going to happen quickly or overnight but we’re quite-, we’ll keep offering as much as we can, the whole team feels exactly the same way, and we recognise it will take time but we hope that, you know, we’ll get there, and we’ll work with you to do that, and listen to you as well. Gerry Lyons: And there’s no reason why you should trust that, you just need to see it and experience it. And that’s the point, isn’t it, and that’s why you (talking over each other). Gillian Hoyle: Exactly and that’s why we reply, ‘Continue reporting,’ actions speak louder than words. Sure, I agree. Okay, great, is that not a bad place to leave it, do you think? Peter, sorry. Janie O’Neill: Gerry Lyons: Peter McColl: Could I just say one more thing, which is, I think-, I mean, I can’t speak for you and how you’ve experienced this but if you have found that there’s been a change of attitude, I think it’s really important that the engagement comes in to the consultation in the period when the consultation’s open. And I appreciate what you’re saying about a lack of trust and things but I think there are questions that will have to be answered as a result of the consultation. And therefore getting as rich a response into the consultation as possible is really important and, I mean, I think there’s a willingness to listen, and I think it would be helpful to get more responses in that spirit. Really, what Gerry started with, we want to get the best thing for the children and for the community, and I think that has to be the priority here. Gerry Lyons: And there will be an online questionnaire released very shortly which will allow people who can’t come to meetings through that forum, so that will be another opportunity that people will have. Gillian Hoyle: I do have two more things, yes, I am being that person when everyone wants to go home. First of all, the existing Dargavel Primary, there were things descoped in the original plans, specifically the MUGA, it was originally meant to be a 5G pitch with floodlights. Is there an opportunity in all of this to get the MUGA upgraded and it become the 5G pitch that it was originally meant to be? Gerry Lyons: Honest answer, I don’t know, honest answer. David: It’s a very similar one to the funding to the (talking over each other) Gerry Lyons: Aye, but listen, we’re taking a note of it, so, let’s start the conversation but I don’t know. Chris Dalrymple: I think that’s what we’d need to discuss, Gerry, as part of it. Obviously, the last one wasn’t run by us, we had an oversight of it, and it you’re absolutely right, it was descoped. One of the key things for the new school is making sure that finance, resources, everything that Frank’s team are going to put into this correct. Page 364 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 David: And ringfenced. Gillian Hoyle: Ultimately, we know that the current football clubs use Inverclyde and they pay, I’m imagining, quite a lot of money every single week to another community instead of coming back into Dargavel Primary or the other primary school. George Morrison: Thousands of pounds every year going out of this community. Gillian Hoyle: That should be coming back into this community. David: Or on to the Development Trust. Chris Dalrymple: I would completely agree, anything that’s in Renfrewshire should be staying in Renfrewshire, more locally, within Bishopton, and it’s one of the commitments that there will be a synthetic pitch with floodlights that can be used by the community, in the new school. Gillian Hoyle: In the new school. Chris Dalrymple: Correct. Gillian Hoyle: Yes, I’m keen to try and see about getting this one upgraded so that there is then a facility for the kids, and there are two facilities then instead of just one. Gerry Lyons: I think that would be an excellent quick win for the Council. Gillian Hoyle: There was a lot of disdain on the MUGA, just, there were a lot of views on that one. Gerry Lyons: I’m not going to back over the dad race when they all got too competitive and somebody fell and got badly-, Louise Chisholm: It’s me that organises that, wheesht. Gerry Lyons: (Talking over each other) with the MUGA, that’s all I want to say. Gillian Hoyle: My second point then, was on the secondary school. I do still think that you are open to issues down the line with the secondary school and that it should be getting considered as part of Bishopton. Gerry Lyons: I hear that, I hear what you’re saying, it’s a different conversation but it’s a conversation that we’ll have, absolutely. David: The priority’s the primary at the moment. Gerry Lyons: Yes, and this is a consultation on the primary. Gillian Hoyle: Yes, it is, but let’s not just push it down the line. Gerry Lyons: But let’s not just that we’re not talking about the secondary, we’re going to talk about the secondary, we’re going to have similar conversations about the secondary as this. And we will have those conversations from the different perspectives that we bring to them, and that’s right and proper, so I can assure you of that, you don’t need to worry about it, we’ll have that conversation. Page 365 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 Laura Miller: Yes, because I think, you know, and I probably speak for every parent that’s going to have a child coming through either this school or the new school, that-, and even actually, kids that will be going to Bishopton Primary, you know, between these three schools you’re going to have a lot of children who’ve had a very-, and this is no offence against the teachers because this is a great school, a very disrupted primary education, through no fault of the teachers or anything, but through, you know the whole process of-, you know, you’re going to have some children who when they go to high school, have potentially been in three separate primary schools, three different primary schools, they’ve been in Bishopton, they’ve been here, maybe they’ll have their last year over in the new school. And whilst the primary school’s important, high school’s extremely important, you’re going up-, this is where you’re going to, you know, potentially get your qualifications. So, I think, yes, you need to get the primary school sorted and everything needs to get done with that, but I definitely don’t think that we can lose sight because I’m just thinking about having my daughter thinking that she’s going to be going to Park Mains with her pals. But is she going to be going to Park Mains with her pals? What happens if she’s not and she’s getting shipped to, you know, another high school? If I wanted her to go to that high school I’d move to that catchment area, you know, and that’s-, I think a lot of parents will be concerned, and I know what you’re saying, it’s about the primary school, and I get that, but I definitely think that we shouldn’t lose sight because this is just going to be more complications further down the line. Gerry Lyons: Yes, I’m not saying that in terms of, it’s not in our sights, it is in our sights and it’s absolutely in our sights. My point is only that this consultation’s about this bit, but your point’s a valid one. Laura Miller: Of course. Gerry Lyons: And your whole educational journey’s important to parents for their children, and we know that, so we want to keep talking about that, and we’ll have those conversations. I’m already committed to going to Bishopton Community Council to talk about Park Mains after Easter, and I’m happy to make that offer for officers to come and have these conversations. Which might just at first be coming and saying, ‘Right, we know where we think we are, tell us where you’re coming from,’ and then build from there. And the Park Mains Head Teacher is going to do that as well. Louisa Mahon: Gerry Lyons: And the Park Mains Head Teacher, so we’ve got a plan for that, and just watch out for that coming down the line, okay? Everyone okay with that? Are we okay to draw it to a conclusion? In fact, you guys have been out often enough. No, it’s alright. David: Louisa Mahon: Gerry Lyons: Listen, we made a commitment to engage and we can’t engage from somewhere else, we can only engage in here, so we’re delighted to be here. And as I said at the start, I love these meetings, these meetings are terrific, Page 366 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 19.02.24 really good, they’re open, they’re frank, they’re decent, and they’re with people who are genuinely concerned about getting the best for the children. I’ll talk to people like that forever. Laura Miller: We respect that. Gerry Lyons: So, there’s no problem with that at all, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I wish I’d spoken to more, you know my frustration there and I hope you don’t mind me acknowledging that. Louisa Mahon: You’ve still got the opportunity, I mean, there are two more information evenings, there’s another public meeting where-, Gerry Lyons: Aye, we’re trying to do things differently. Louisa Mahon: Absolutely, we’re so keen for more people to come along and attend, so we’re going to be talking, I think, this week, about getting information out to everyone across the villages, how can we do that, try and encourage more people to come along attend, if you can help us with that, that would be great. David: (Talking over each other) to push (talking over each other) folk coming, there’s a barrier to be broken down. Gerry Lyons: Absolutely. Laura Miller: There’s definitely a barrier to be broken down but, I guess, I would say I’m a bit disappointed there’s nobody from the PC here, from the Dargavel Parent Council. Janie O’Neill: I have to admit, I was really surprised when I arrived because based on the number of emails and the amount of talking, and conversation, and what an incredibly huge, sort of, subject this is, I honestly thought it would be very, very busy. I have to be honest, I’m very surprised. Gerry Lyons: And we certainly planned for that but it’s helpful for us to get, again, lived experience from people saying, ‘This is probably why, Gerry, and it’s probably beyond your capability at the moment to fix it, but time will maybe help with that,’ so that’s fine. But listen, can I say to everyone who’s been here, thank you for (a) coming along and (b) for the way you’ve contributed. I’ve really enjoyed talking to you, I think we’ve all enjoyed hearing your concerns and the way you’ve expressed them. And, you know, just to finish with our commitment, I’ve been talking to everyone here in the offices and there’s not one person who’s not absolutely determined to get this right, and I can assure you of that. So, we’re going to keep working through. David: Right, tell the politicians that. (Laughter) Gerry Lyons: I’m going to leave David with the last word on that (Laughter, talking over each other). Recording ends. Page 367 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Introduction Gerry Lyons: Okay, good evening, everyone, lovely to see you all and I’m sorry I’m using the mic. You’ll see there are microphones around all the proceedings tonight, which are for the recording of tonight, with a view to getting an accurate record of the discussions. So, all the sessions will be recorded, I’m using the mic, not just because I’ve got a bit of a throat but because we can record, like I say. So, firstly, welcome to all of you and thank you for coming, it’s great to see so many of you here tonight. If I can just introduce myself, for those of you that I’ve not met before. I’m Gerry Lyons, I am interim Head of Service for Children’s Services in Renfrewshire Council and the lead for this statutory consultation, I will be leading and chairing proceedings tonight. I have a range of colleagues with me who you’ll meet as the night goes on, I’m not going to introduce them all just now but they’ll introduce themselves as we go through the proceedings tonight. We also have representation from Education Scotland who is here purely as an observer and will not become involved in any conversations, that’s not Education Scotland’s role, it’s to observe and to evaluate the process, and to give feedback, so that’s the way that will work from the Education Scotland perspective. I’m going to open tonight with a very short presentation because tonight is really not about you listening to me or to anyone else but much more about you getting a chance to-, for us to listen to you and we know that’s not been something that has been done in the past particularly successfully, but we are very determined to rectify that and to take a listening position on all of the issues, as far as we possibly can. So, let me just, kind of, introduce then-, and although this is a proposal which is very practical, the building of a new school in a particular place and a series of catchment areas, I think it’s worth taking some time to reflect on what sits underneath that, and to hold on to what sits underneath it, which are these two things here. That firstly, we want to deliver the highest possible quality education provision for all of the children, and that’s both now and in the future, there is a pressing element to this and I’m sure we’ll talk a bit about the pressing element of it. So, we have to deliver for the children now, but we also have to deliver a facility that, in whatever number of years from now, is still worthy of those children, is still giving them an environment where they can learn and achieve their potential, so those are the two joint commitments to the children. The second principle is one which is really important to us and has been really important to loads of people we’ve spoken to, which is that community commitment, the facilities for community use which enhance the community of Bishopton and Dargavel. Already we’ve had lots of feedback from people saying that that’s something that’s really missing at the moment, that’s a real miss, and also that we set out on that road before and never really delivered that. One of the important principles is that both of these things are fundamental to the proposal. One is not ancillary to the other, they are absolutely fundamental and therefore our intent is to deliver on both of them. So, tonight is, just for the context, a public meeting, it sits within the statutory consultation guidelines that are set out by the government, and we have a set of outcomes linked to those principles that we want to deliver tonight. The first one is that transparency, and again, that’s been a criticism in the past, that we haven’t been as transparent as we could be, and tonight we are going to-, and throughout this process actually, it’s been a real guiding light for all of the officers involved, that we are transparent about facts and if we don’t have facts, about going and getting those facts, and bringing them back. About the constraints that exist and Page 368 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Introduction that we have to accommodate within this process and the challenges that we face, and some of those are challenges which impact very directly on you, if not all of them. So, we have to be open about that and help give a genuine picture of the situation where we are. We want to listen and we want to understand the lived experience, which for a lot of you has been very upsetting, has been challenging, and has made you very angry, and we get that, but we want to understand it better. We want to hear the widest range of views and part of this whole approach has been to get as many different ways that people could contribute as we could, so that we could hear from as many people as possible, and all the views that exist, both within the community and across the whole of Bishopton. What are the concerns and what are the thoughts? Again, so that we can inform what we’re doing by those. A statutory consultation has to start with a proposal, and we do have a proposal, but it is open to alternatives and to the possibility that there’s a better way of doing this, and we need to hear what those alternatives might be, so that we can give them consideration prior to any decision making. We want tonight to be a positive experience for everyone and I’m aware, and I’ve had it told to me in other sessions that we’ve had, that previous public meetings weren’t necessarily positive for people. We want tonight, whatever happens and whatever you feel about the outcomes, that at least you feel it’s been a positive two hours of your life, and that it was worth coming along. So, we want that for everyone tonight. So, the way we’re going to organise the session, we’ve got this quick introduction from myself, we’re then going to split into two groups. The first group will go next door and they will work with Gerry and Alistair Morrison to talk about the site, transport, and all issues associated with that. Those people are the people that are responsible for delivering on those issues, so they’re the best people to talk to. The second group will stay here with myself and we will talk about catchment areas, roll projections, admissions, all the, I suppose, education stuff. You’re not tied to any of those, you can talk about anything you want but those are the, kind of, focus. We’ll do that for about 35 minutes, give or take, we’ll then have a quick comfort break and I’ll go next door, and Alistair and the team will come in here, and we’ll have the second workshop where we swap round the areas of focus. We’ll then come together about 8:40 for any final questions or any final comment, or any issues that you wanted to hear about that you’ve not had the chance to hear about. The whole design of the evening is about giving as wide a range of information and fitting in with those outcomes that we identified. Just, I suppose, the ethos of the meeting and how we want to conduct the meeting. We want it to be open, so if you’ve got something to say, it’s right and proper that you say it, I don’t want anyone to feel that they can’t say whatever they want to say, and that there’s an honest exchange of views. You will probably disagree with each other, that’s absolutely fine, but that is open and honest, and well intentioned, and holding on, I think, to those principles about getting it right for the children and for the community. We want that done with that backdrop of mutual respect and a civil way of going about our business, and that as chair, is something that I have responsibility for, to chair in a way that makes sure that that’s intact, that we hold on to finding solutions and looking forward, but not in a way that disregards what happened in the past. What happened in the past is absolutely relevant and still live for so many people, but we want to try to, kind of, give credit to that, recognise that, Page 369 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Introduction but also say, ‘Right, so what do we do differently moving forward?’ Lastly, that if you ask something we don’t have the answer to, we are going to tell you we don’t have the answer, but we are going to commit to finding the answer and bringing it back to you, so that there’s not a, kind of, waffling our way round things we don’t quite get. We are going to be honest and say, ‘I don’t know the answer to that but we will commit to getting it to you, and when we’ll get it to you.’ So, that is really how (Timecode: 00:10:00) we want to organise the evening and hopefully run the evening, I hope you’re all comfortable with that. Let me give you a wee sense of what we’ve heard already and that may be something you’ve heard already, if you’ve been at information sessions, so apologies for that, but it maybe sets a scene for some of the discussions we’re going to have. One of the biggest conversations we’ve been having is about the numbers, of course that was one of the biggest issues the last time, if the not the biggest issue. So, ‘Are the numbers accurate? How are we making decisions? Are we thinking through all the possibilities?’ We’ve had quite a lot of chat about that. The site decision, there is a site matrix, we have gone through a scoring process, Alistair will talk to that and answer any questions about the site matrix. The decision-making process is outlined in the booklet that you can take away with you, and the timing. Consistently what I’ve said, and I’ll say it again this evening, is that August 2027 is a key date for this. We have primary one parents who are having the location of their child’s education, and primary one education, decided by a ballot. We want that situation to exist for as little time as possible, it’s on us that it does exist, so there’s no hiding from that fact, but it’s not where we want to be. I’m very aware of how important that is to all of you, and you want certainty. August 2027 is a key date for us because until then, we can manage the primary one numbers between Dargavel and Bishopton. By August 2027 we can no longer do that and the schools would then extend out to the next nearest school. We want to avoid that scenario at all costs, so timing has been one of the things that is driving our position on all of this. We know there have been huge traffic and safety concerns, we know there continue to be huge traffic and safety concerns. There was a conversation the other night about a temporary drop-off zone in this school, and you’ll get more detail of that this evening from Alistair and from Frank. I had my first meeting today about the scheduling of that temporary drop-off zone and when it will be ready, and when it will be available for use. It was a very early discussion and Frank and Alistair are far better positioned to talk about that than me. We can talk about the design of the building, we have tried to learn from the experience of this building, and the experience of people who work here and who learn here, and they’ve been involved in our conversations about the new building. We’ve heard so much about community facilities, you know, the MUGA that’s in this school, which was never what people thought they were getting, about the importance of a sports pitch, sports facilities, those facilities that allow people to have clubs and have societies, and all of that kind of stuff, so we know how important that is. The big question, you know, ‘Is the school going to be ready on time?’ We believe it is but following the consultation and the kind of conversations we’ve had during the consultation, we’ve now started processes to say, ‘So, what will be our position if it starts to look as though it’s not going to be ready in time?’ There’s a bit of a, ‘Heaven Page 370 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Introduction forfend,’ around that but nevertheless, we want to be ready on the off-chance. What are the alternatives? Again, we’ve heard alternatives, we’ve heard proposed alternatives from people in terms of different sites, and again, we have to be open to them. We did have a question about how it works if the decision is that we don’t use the site that’s in the proposal, do we just move to the next one? The answer to that question is, ‘No, that’s not what happens.’ What happens is, we have to go back to the joint board and we have to draw up a new proposal, we have to identify the specifics of it and bring back a new statutory consultation on that new proposal, whatever that may be. So, that’s, kind of, what happens if the statutory consultation doesn’t lead to a moving forward of the proposal. The other thing that we’ve started a conversation about is that at the end of this statutory consultation is 26th March but that should not be the end of the engagement with the community. So, we are looking at, ‘How do we keep the community involved in our ongoing monitoring of numbers? How do we keep you up to date with the progress of the building and the planning? How do we keep listening to you about any concerns you might have, any progress we’ve got in traffic management or any of those issues?’ So, we will be looking at an ongoing community engagement strategy, so that it’s not a case of, ‘Right, that’s the statutory consultation over, no more discussion.’ I did get a bit of feedback today about that, how important that was, and that seems to me to make perfect sense, and the comms team were very, very keen that we start to plan that out. So, these are things we’ve heard so far, they’re not the only things, and we’ll hear new things tonight, and please, if there’s something up there-, if there’s something missing, please let us know what it is and we will have the conversation based on that. So, that’s, kind of, where we are just now, that’s setting the scene. As I say, we want to have as much time for discussion as possible, so as I say, we’re going to split you into two. It’s not going to be particularly scientific but if everyone from this microphone here, on this side, stays here and everyone on this side goes through the partitions, then that will be the two groups, and then we’ll swap round. Obviously if you are here with someone and that split doesn’t work for you then don’t hesitate just to stay where you are, and we’re not worrying about that. Is that okay? So, off you go and then we’ll come back at the end for some discussion, thanks very much. M1: Excuse me please, sorry, can I check, is the recording happening next door as well? Gerry Lyons: Yes. M1: Good, and where can we get access to this recording? Gerry Lyons: We are going to transcribe the recording and that will be part of the record of the consultation. M1: When will we get access to that? Gerry Lyons: The consultation will be published as part of the final report and everything that sits underneath it, it will probably be on the website but again, we’ll take advice as to how to make it easiest to access. Okay? Recording ends. Page 371 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One Gerry Lyons: Okay everyone, lovely to see you as I said, and we’re together for the next half hour or so, give or take. I don’t want to just keep talking as this is an evening for you, and we’ve got to make as much time-, we want to make as much time as we can. So, it’s up to yourselves, if somebody’s got a question, let’s start there and then build from there, if it’s easier for me to talk you through a couple of issues then just tell me what you’d like to know a bit more about. M1: As I mentioned in the notes that I sent to you, at this stage we’ve had Space Zero, we’ve had all the consultations and presentations, at this point in time it’s words and objectives and what have you. To make a decision, in my mind, on things like basic designs and drawings should be so that people can look at that detail. Not just a whole load of words, and there have been a lot of words so far. You mentioned there that there’s a decision going to be made towards the end of March. Gerry Lyons: The consultation process finishes at the end of March, the actual decision in terms of starting the process will be made on 23rd May. M1: Yes, but what is that decision going to be? Gerry Lyons: So, that decision will be that the board approves the building of a new school, what site it should be on, and that the catchment areas are whatever they are at the end of the consultation. So, that will be the decision. That starts a process that, you know, Frank and colleagues will lead around those design issues that you talk about, and that will be an important part of the process because that’s when you start to see, ‘What’s this thing going to look like?’ You’re right, that’s vitally important and we want the community to be able to influence that as much as possible, but that’s the, kind of, end of a statutory process that says, to a date-, it should be six weeks, ours has lasted about eight weeks. Then a final report, then a report from Education Scotland, which they take about three weeks of work to do, and following their report, there are then three weeks for us to consider what they come back to us with. I’m looking at my colleague over there just to see that I’m saying that properly. Then we put that to the board, the board decision is the start of a process, not the end of a process, if that makes sense. David: Is that the Education Board or the full Council? Gerry Lyons: That’s the Education and Skills Board, yes. F1: (Inaudible, too far from microphone) when that happened for this school-, Gerry Lyons: Sorry, just-, F1: So, from the time that that green light go ahead was given for this school, what was the period of time for design and build to the school opening? To give an idea-, Gerry Lyons: So, there is a board next door that you can look at, it’s also in your booklet. So, I’ll just talk you through it and then you can look at it on your own. F1: Yes, so if you can give us an idea of how long that process was, to give-, Page 372 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One Sorry, Gerry, are you talking about the previous, this school? This school here. Oh, this school. From the green light going ahead to this school opening, what was that time frame? Because if we’re talking ’27-, What an excellent question and it’s my first, ‘Don’t know,’ of the night, I honestly don’t know how long it took. You don’t know how long it took to build this school? No, because I wasn’t working in the Council at the time, I know when it all, kind of, came to light, but guys, have you got a sense of that? So, the school that we’re having the debate about not having enough size, the area that we’re talking about, you guys don’t know the basics? That’s so bad. Yes, no, no, absolutely, Frank, can you give us a sense of-, I can give you an idea of some of the issues with the timeline for this, this was slightly different because it wasn’t built by Renfrewshire Council, it was through BAE, and they appointed their own contractors, their own design team. It was through part of the COVID period, so that timeline that you see, it took quite a bit of time to open. It shouldn’t impact on this new school because we shouldn’t have, obviously, a pandemic. So, it’s slightly different, this is obviously 400, 440, we’re going to build an 800 school, it’s a bigger (talking over each other) entirely. Well, give us an estimate of a school that you’ve built of the same size without COVID. 800, well, we’re looking at two years’ construction, that’s for the new school. So, that’s construction, what about the full design phase and the ordering of materials etc? Because that’s-, Could I just ask you two, is that for the recording? Not because you’re (talking over each other), it’s just for the recording. So, if it’s two years’ construction, how long for design and material order? It’s basically when we get the consultation approved, we get the go ahead to basically build on whatever site it is that you want, presumably. That date which we’ll probably say May-, when is the consultation approval? May 23rd. May 23rd, so it’s probably May onwards. So, you’re talking about May ’24 to August ’27. Chris Dalrymple: F1: Gerry Lyons: F1: Gerry Lyons: F1: Gerry Lyons: F1: Gerry Lyons: Frank Farrell: F1: Frank Farrell: F1: Gerry Lyons: F1: Frank Farrell: Gerry Lyons: Frank Farrell: Gerry Lyons: So, May 24th is the decision, the technical design conclusion will take place from July to December 2024. You’ve then got planning application, am I right in saying that takes about 20 weeks? Page 373 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One Frank Farrell: No, that’s building standards, planning depends on Alistair, Alistair’s next door, planning on depends on exactly what you’re building. Gerry Lyons: Right, so we’ve got that from March 2025, construction on site in July 2025, with a view to the opening of the school in August 2027. F1: Very, very tight. Gerry Lyons: That’s the project plan. F1: Not a lot of room for error in there, is there? ?: Tight, I don’t think it’s achievable. M3: If I could just drill into that a bit too, I think. So, looking at the programme that’s in the (inaudible), a couple of things jump out to me, I’m just curious as to the logic behind it. So, starting with the programme, we’re looking at March now, so detailed design will be now, architects appointed this month as well, why are you putting detailed planning in at March ’25? Frank Farrell: Because we don’t have enough important planning information to go on, we don’t think we have enough detail. M3: But your engineers, main contractors, your feedback from technical design, if they’re all dealt with before that-, it’s a very unusual move. Frank Farrel: I would qualify that by saying this is indicative timing, if we can get the consultants appointed earlier, the planning process might commence earlier. M3: It strikes me that there’s a strategy there, in the public domain, which planning has to be, that you give us three months as a community to comment against that planning application. If it doesn’t go ahead at the eleventh hour it’s all the community’s fault because August ’27 is a key date, do you understand? Frank Farrell: It’s not meant to come across like that, that was never the intention, I’m sorry you read it that way, that’s not the case at all. Gerry Lyons: I think there’s an important element, just on one of the things you said, that I want to come back to. We do not have any intention in operating in a way that says that anything that doesn’t go as we wish it to go would be the community’s fault. That’s not what we’re trying to do here, if the community tell us that there’s something better and something they would prefer, we’re going to respect that. If it doesn’t fit in with the timeline that we’d hope for, then fine, but that won’t be about fault, that will be about saying, ‘Full transparency, full recognition of what people are saying.’ If you say to me, ‘August 2027, Gerry, is really important to you but it’s not as important to this community, we’d rather stretch it out to August 2030,’ then I have got to take cognizance of that, and I would not be saying for one second, ‘Well, if it’s not dealt with by August 2027, that’s your fault.’ Because that’s not the way we want to go forward. So, I know the point you’re making, I just want to pick up that wee issue about fault. M3: No, it’s fine and it’s a valid point for the room, my point isn’t about blame, it’s that the process doesn’t seem right, it doesn’t follow any project I’ve Page 374 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One ever seen. Detailed planning is something we try and tick the box off early, to make sure you’ve got your consultants, your community, your engagement, your public-, you’d have the look, the feel, the size, the quantum, you’d have all those things done by technical design. Second to that, there are two years for the design-, sorry not design, the delivery, only delivery of the project, for the school. A school that size averages about 78 to 82 weeks. Sorry, I didn’t hear the last bit there. Frank Farrell: M3: The average duration for a primary school of that size, passive house, net zero is taking 78 to 82 weeks, so there are about six months of a difference there between the two years and the eighteen months. If you had a rejig of the programme, you’d have a lot more time there, I think, to look at site selection, community engagement and the benefit of what we want as a community, rather than what feels a little like racing to a programme that looks very busy. Key points, we’ve got to get to the solution that works because I do agree, August ’27 is a very important date. I do not want to see any child failed in the education element of this community but it just feels really quick to race through this, given that I was here a year ago when we were talking about site selection, and we’re still talking about trying to get this work the best route possible. So, I’m not pointing fingers, I’m asking simple questions as to, ‘Is this the right programme?’ I don’t believe it is but there’s enough time there still to look at it, change it, and see, ‘What do we want? What can we bring and what can we contribute?’ Chris Dalrymple: If I can just intrude, so my name’s Chris Dalrymple, I’m the Head of Facilities and Property Services, so Frank and I will work closely together (Timecode: 00:10:00). I think as Gerry’s alluded to, and Frank has said, see if we can pull things forward, we absolutely will. We were asked to look at an indicative timescale to allow us to work through the programme, some of the comments you’ve said there are very fair. I’d like to discuss them in a wee bit more detail, I’m sure Frank would as well, as the Programme Manager for the technical unit but we want to work with the community and we really want to give as much time-, in case we encounter something that we aren’t expecting, you sound like you’re in the game as well, you know what you’re talking about. We will encounter some problems, we want to give ourselves some scope so that that key date is being met, but I’d like Frank and I to discuss that a wee bit more with you as part of this consultation. Frank Farrell: As Chris says, this is indicative, this is the indicative timescale we’ve got to meet an August ’27 date. So, yes, some of these dates might move around, you know what it’s like. We’re not going to micromanage every single activity here but the end date is August ’27 that we’ve been aiming for. So, planning application ’25, it might be earlier than that, it depends on what happens to technical design, what happens to the consultation with, obviously, the residents, the community, also with education. Gerry Lyons: It’s a really fair point and Chris will follow that up, so thank you for it. David: One of the things that was raised by the community was the fact that the land that’s currently being used, or potentially going to be used, is the old Page 375 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One ROF site. It needs remediated, it needs cleaned up. If we’d gone for a clean site, which there are quite a number of around the perimeter of the site, albeit yes, they are in green belt or whatever, but I think if there’s a will, there’s a way and that would be one way of taking things forward with a bit more confidence. Because at the moment, you don’t know what you’re going to find under that ground, it could be ammonium perchlorate, it could be nitrocellulose, it could be whatever because that is an old site, it’s part of the old development. We flagged this up easily last year some time but they’ve gone, ‘No,’ because of the complexities of the relationship with BAE, this was a way ahead quickly that Renfrewshire Council could get a site. Guys, do you want to make any comment on that? Thanks, David. Gerry Lyons: Frank Farrell: Essentially just that BAE have remediating that site already, they’ve started to remediate it already, and they were doing that last year as well, that site and various other sites. So, the whole point is that they cleanse that site down to a standard level, be it 450 or 750 below the base, and they’re obviously going to clean that of what materials they find in there, hotspots etc. So, it should be clean if that’s the site we eventually choose, that’s what we hope. Gerry Lyons: Thank you. M1: Going back to the point on duration, the architect appointment is the end of this month? Yes. What do you base the architect appointment on? On ability or whatever? Frank Farrell: M1: Frank Farrell: Well, there’s a competitive tender process that’s going on through Hub West. We’ve engaged with Hub West and I don’t know if anybody’s aware what Hub West is, it’s an organisation that authorities can use for a straight supply chain that they have available for consultants and contractors. So, they engage with the market for architects, engineers, contractors and they have a team ready to, basically, start once we agree what site it is, they can start on the design. So, they haven’t designed anything because we don’t know where we’re going to be putting it yet, so it’s really just to get a head start on the design process itself. Are they looking at different architects at the moment? That process is being undertaken by Hub West, the same with engineers. M1: Frank Farrell: M1: They then go into detailed design March to June, I mean, that’s a tight schedule. I can’t comment on that, that’s not my thing. ?: Frank Farrell: That’s detailed design commencing, then we’re going to appoint an engineer, mechanical engineer as well. They will feed in to the existing design for the architect, the architect starts first, there are various ways around it but this one’s going to feed in with the architect. So, it is tight but that doesn’t actually complete until December ’24, the technical design, Page 376 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One there are various stages it goes through, and detailed design commences then. That’s the commencing date? Yes, so there’s a nine-month, kind of, designing period-, Yes, it is. M1: Gerry Lyons: Frank Farrell: M1: It’s got to be tight if it’s on one side, it’s not (talking over each other) the diagram. We haven’t put every single activity in there. No, but it’s about (talking over each other) If that was the start of-, Okay, it starts in March, all things being equal. (Inaudible) no doubt about that. Frank Farrell: Gerry Lyons: M1: Frank Farrell: Gerry Lyons: F1: Sorry, I mean, it’s just quite disappointing, the detail-, (inaudible, too far from microphone) Gerry Lyons: It’s just we won’t be able to take a note of your point, that’s the only issue. I know you might not like it but it’s just for the accuracy of the meeting. F1: Right, okay, so the amount of detail that you have around the planning. You say, obviously, you want the community to be involved in the decision if there’s a better way to do something, it’s all about the children, it’s all about community investment, and you’ve just mentioned there that you’re not going to micromanage this. Having a community that has households that are full of anxiety and stress over where their children are going, the discussion around primary ones having to be ferried out of the village to start a school career away from their nursery mates, their children that they socialise with in the village, that is not good for the community. So, the August ’27 date is really non-negotiable and yes, it’s very good to have the community’s input into it but do you not think you really need to take the bull by the horns a little bit here and actually put some guidance out there of what can and cannot be moved? Gerry Lyons: Yes, absolutely, yes, I think the one of the challenges of that point is that we are very much-, not constrained, that’s not the right way of saying it, but we have to finish a period of statutory consultation. Until we finish that period of statutory consultation we can’t give, and move forward with, precise details about anything because it would be inappropriate to do so. So, while I understand what you’re saying and I understand the anxiety, nevertheless, this process is governed by a set of guidelines that are not ours and are non- negotiable. F1: That’s the standing situation but as a number of people have said, we’re talking about the same things we were talking about a year ago. So, in that timeframe you could have set out a number of things that are within the art of the possible to do, and not to do, which gives the community time to Page 377 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One comment on that. You’ve had comment upon comment, so now we’re moving closer to that deadline of August ’27, it’s quite clearly not about the children because if it was then you would be doing more to tighten those timeframes and using things that-, it’s just really disappointing just now to be at this point and you still can’t tie down a plan. Gerry Lyons: Yes, I think, I mean, at the end of the day that’s your view. I disagree with you that it’s not about the children, the whole driver is to get this right for the children. F1: It’s not (talking over each other) Gerry Lyons: However, I understand why you’re saying that, what I’m saying to you is that the team have got an indicative timeline. We will engage with you as much as we possibly can once this-, we’ve done so during this process, we will continue to do so after this process, and throughout the whole process, to give as much comfort as we can around the progress that’s being made and the decisions that are being made. Inevitably, we are in a particular process at the moment and we can’t do too much until that’s finished. That’s, kind of, outwith our gift, I understand your concern about it. F1: It’s one very small part of-, Gerry Lyons: I understand your concern about it but we are determined to engage with you as much as we can as we go through the next stages. I should just get four or five mics, shouldn’t I? M3: If I could drill in a bit to the design appointments, what’s the remit? So, two questions, what’s the remit of the design team? Is it to design the school in isolation or is it to design the school within the masterplan? Second question, is the school going to be passive house or net zero? The Renfrewshire Council net zero policy is to be by 2030, which, this school will be finished by ’27, or sorry, started by ’27. It falls within that strategy, are we taking cognizance of that so that the school is operationally cheap to run, helping the burden on the Council? So, the first and the second part, if you don’t mind. Just repeat the first part again? Frank Farrell: M3: The first part is the remit of the design, is it the school in isolation or is the school within the masterplan? Frank Farrell: Our remit within property services is to build the school, design the school but obviously we’ve got to do that in conjunction with the site itself. We obviously liaise with BAE, we’ve been doing that with this school as well. So, yes, we will be building the school, not in isolation, even though it is a standalone project for us, we’ll have to liaise with BAE, essentially, because of the access routes, active travel, various other things. Basically, it’s both, we have to design a school for our client and obviously the community, but we still have to link up with BAE. Chris Dalrymple: The second one was about the passive house. Page 378 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One Frank Farrell: Passive house, yes, the brief to Hub West is to look for passive house certified, if we can achieve that, net zero, we can (inaudible) standards because it sounds as if you probably know the building regs have become far more stringent in the last couple of months, that comes in in April. So, we will be building to the new standards and we will be looking for passive house, possibly certified building, but certainly net zero aspirations contained within. M3: To (Timecode 00:20:00) the first one, the design and masterplan, which is a good thing, looking at the current school and the situation for traffic, it’s not the best for buses. There’s no design in the masterplan for lay-bys, for parking areas, for example, so when you’re trying to drop your child off at school, like I do, you can get stuck behind twenty cars quite easily with one bus. Now, another school, assuming that site goes ahead because of time and the deals that are being done, it’s quite close in proximity so the buses then increase, the volume of traffic increases. I know there have been traffic studies done recently but we’re probably about, what, 55% roughly through the development, so there are a lot more cars and people still to come. Will the masterplan be changed as part of this process, so that we can factor in lay-bys and more provisions for the buses and the traffic during that point in time? Bearing in mind that one of the main arteries have yet to be built, so is there an opportunity, I’m asking, to change-, Are you talking about BAE’s masterplan? Frank Farrell: M3: I think legally it’s BAE’s masterplan, the Council’s remit is to protect the community in that masterplan and the vision of that masterplan. That masterplan serves the community, so yes, legally BAE have that. It’s going to really get my fires going if we hide behind BAE with that because the voice of us telling you is that we have an opportunity to change this. BAE are on the hook for aspects of it, but it’s not been built yet, so why not change that before it gets built, while there’s an opportunity to do that? You know, for me, legally, the section 75 is proportional to the original masterplan, not the current and the future masterplan. There must be something we can do there to annoy them about that, noise them up a bit, get something in our favour. There are more houses-, Gerry Lyons: Sorry, can I suggest that you ask that question next door? Everything associated with section 75 and all those issues is another workshop. M3: But section 75 to one side, the road has yet to be completed, there’s a loop, so half of that, roughly, is still to be done. Gerry Lyons: The team next door is talking about that road loop as well. M3: But is that in the design remit? M1: (Talking over each other) and agree with the comments about traffic. That was one of my main comments to you and I wait to-, Gerry Lyons: Yes, there is a full discussion about traffic in the other workshop. Page 379 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One M3: So, the detail of my question was that content but the question is, is that element in the scope of the design team? So, the school in isolation or the school within the masterplan, the masterplan is to design that factor in. Frank Farrell: We have a site, potentially (inaudible), sorry, so we’ve got to make that work, if that’s the chosen site. What we then do, as I say, is liaise with BAE to see what impact that might have on their masterplan. That will be fed on from Alistair’s team back to BAE, through planning. We can’t, obviously, build the roads, separate roads outwith, we can maybe influence it, we can advise what we think is going to work following feedback from the community but we probably haven’t got, as you say, the gift to actually physically make changes until BAE sign it off. So, we need to consider everything you’re saying, take account of it just as Gerry says, discussions regarding the layout, the plan, that is probably the point that we have a better point to say, ‘Right, this doesn’t work, that works,’ and then take that back to Alistair’s team to work with BAE. Chris Dalrymple: Sorry, Gerry. Gerry Lyons: Yes, Chris, on you go. Chris Dalrymple: Can I very quickly come in there? So, one of the key things is, we’ll be working very closely with Gerry Hannah, who’s next door, and his team. So, yes, Frank’s team and my team will be responsible for designing the building, building the bricks and mortar, but we can’t do that in isolation. We need to take in cognizance with Gerry to say, from a planning position, ‘We need to think about roads, we need to think about the drop-off.’ So, it’s a bit of both, we need that design work in there to make sure the pick-ups, the drop-offs, the car parking spaces, everything linked to our colleagues in Roads will be part of that planning discussion. We just can’t answer part of the section 75 stuff, next door, because it’s Alistair and Gerry but there will be that very close working relationship between us and Gerry Hannah, and the team who are next door. Gerry Lyons: Yes. Gillian Hoyle: Thank you. M4: Sorry, before you start speaking, shall we just keep that microphone and you keep that one? Gillian Hoyle: Yes, you keep that. Gerry Lyons: Aye, we’re going to keep one here. M4: Saves having them-, Gerry Lyons: Although I’ve now got 5,000 steps on my pedometer that I didn’t have before I came, yes, good shout. Gillian Hoyle: So, I know that there was some discussion a while back about a proposed campus to include more nursery space and more high school space. What is the estimated cost for this new primary school to be built? Gerry Lyons: The estimated cost of the new primary school? Page 380 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One Gillian Hoyle: Yes. Gerry Lyons: 45 million. Gillian Hoyle: And what about the extension to Park Mains? Gerry Lyons: 30 million. Gillian Hoyle: Why is there not an option to choose one of the larger sites to have a larger campus? Because as the projections look, we’re due to be at capacity in eight years at Park Mains, even with the extension. Gerry Lyons: Yes, so the answer to your question’s got different parts to it, and some of them are about the planning of secondary education. One of the answers to the question is a financial one, you’re talking about 75 million, the building of a campus as you’ve described is closer to 90 million. So, there is a financial element to that, the other element to it-, Gillian Hoyle: Rather than wasting 70 million. Gerry Lyons: Sorry? Gillian Hoyle: Rather than spending 70 odd million and still being at capacity, and having no high school for any local (talking over each other). Gerry Lyons: Yes, that’s not what we intend though. Gillian Hoyle: Yes, so what’s the plan? Gerry Lyons: Our understanding is, and all our projections at the moment, we will build to a capacity of 2,000 in Park Mains. Gillian Hoyle: Yes. Gerry Lyons: There’s a bit of flex in that, it might go up to 2,050. Gillian Hoyle: I think the numbers actually didn’t even include the new houses in Erskine that are getting built as well. Gerry Lyons: Yes, well, if you just let me finish, I’ll try and cover all of that for you. So, we’re looking at 2,000, all of our projections say that that will be sufficient for Park Mains and to meet the community which Park Mains serves, which is much greater than Dargavel, it serves seven different learning communities. So, one of our concerns is to ensure that the Dargavel solution does not negatively impact on those other learning communities, who have also got a very strong view as to what should happen. We believe that the capacity of Park Mains will be sufficient, if we find there are circumstances which suggest that it’s not going to be, that would not be a matter of looking at Park Mains again to try to make it even bigger. That would then be a wider estate management plan, so for example, if there was planning in Erskine, one of the changes in the process now is that the planning team come to Children’s Services, and ask the question about, ‘If this planning was to be granted, is there sufficient education infrastructure to meet it?’ We have the option of saying, ‘No,’ and that would then lead to a planning refusal. David: Gerry, that goes completely against Scottish Government policy. Page 381 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One Gerry Lyons: Well, all I’m saying is, that’s one of the processes that we’ve got. F3: It goes against what you’ve done to date, which is to-, Gerry Lyons: Aye, the Scottish Government might overrule that-, F3: Even Renfrewshire Council, we asked you last time to put a hold on development that goes ahead within Dargavel during one of the last sessions, and you did not. You continued to develop, you continued to approve plans. Gerry Lyons: When was that? F3: Six months, nine months ago. Gerry Lyons: Right, okay, but if those developments do happen, so if David’s position comes to pass and the Scottish Government say, ‘You can’t do that, you need to grant planning permission,’ you will then move into a much wider estate management, an education estate management at that end, to accommodate those new houses in Erskine. David, if you just let me finish, thank you. So, we believe that, and all of our planning is very much based on the fact that, this community will be served, efficiently, appropriately and to a high quality by Park Mains, and anything that would impact beyond that will be dealt with by a different solution. Gillian Hoyle: But only until eight years’ time and then we’re over capacity. Gerry Lyons: No, absolutely not. Gillian Hoyle: So, where do the kids go when it’s over 2,000? Gerry Lyons: Our projections, and I’m going to come back to projections in a minute-, Gillian Hoyle: Yes, which to be fair (talking over each other) Gerry Lyons: Our projections, and this is not what this consultation’s about, I’m going to do more on this, our projections say that it will not go over 2,000 to a point that we have to look at putting children elsewhere. The other point is that projections being what they are, the further you go, the less reliable they become. So, we’re going to monitor the actual rolls in the school at two separate occasions, we’re going to monitor them after census, and we’re going to monitor them after enrolment figures. That’s twice in the year, and that twice in the year will allow us to have live data to match to the projections to make decisions about what else we need to do. Gillian Hoyle: But then do we run into the same issue, where it’s too late to do something about, like we did with this primary school and-, Gerry Lyons: No, we won’t run into that issue because sitting alongside that is discussions we are having at the moment about thresholds, and the thresholds of, ‘When is the latest point we can make a decision?’ So we don’t run into what happened here, and we’ve got no intention of running into what happened here. F3: What’s the contingency if-, and we know that we’ve been told that the projections don’t include some developments in Erskine, so what is the Page 382 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One contingency if Park Mains hits capacity? It would be that then our choice as parents is removed about what high school they go to. Gerry Lyons: No. F3: Where you said at the beginning it’s not fair for parents who have been part of a ballot (Timecode: 00:30:00), there is the potential that that’s going to happen when the kids go to high school. Gerry Lyons: Yes, we have got no indications to say that’s going to be the case, and we do not want people who were in a ballot in primary one to be in a ballot in S1, that would be thoroughly inappropriate. We have no indications in any of the planning that we have done-, and I appreciate for this community that’s something that’s hard to take a leap of faith on, and I’m not asking you to. David: You failed in the past, Gerry, you failed badly in the past. Gerry Lyons: We have. David: We, as a community, are telling you what you need to do, and the bottom line is, we need a secondary school in this community, then you would have three secondary schools, Gryffe, Park Mains and here. And you wouldn’t have an over-capacity at Park Mains because you could allow building to happen in Erskine. Gerry Lyons: Yes, we’re not going to have an over-capacity in Park Mains, and actually that masterplan that David put together, ten, fifteen years ago, would have been potentially a different conversation. But one of the things that’s not been factored in, by you David, actually, is the fact that Park Mains secondary school has got a capacity for 1,400 young people. David: Correct. Gerry Lyons: If you just let me finish, David, if that’s okay. 1,400 young people, they currently have that capacity, the plan that David puts together significantly affects that school. It takes the numbers of that school down to much less than its capacity, affecting the children at that school, affecting those communities. Those communities have already written to the Council to express their concern that that’s even being considered and leading to a situation where we have built a school for 1,400 and we’ve got 800 children in it. That would just be poor practice on our part. Gillian Hoyle: Well, the projections for this August is that you’re already over the 1,400 for Park Mains anyway, so. Gerry Lyons: Yes. Gillian Hoyle: So, how are you planning to look after those kids then, if your capacity-, Gerry Lyons: We’ve got a modular classroom already been put into Park Mains. Gillian Hoyle: So, but this is growing and growing the next few years-, Gerry Lyons: The other thing you’ve not factored in-, Gillian Hoyle: Sorry, if you can just let me finish. Page 383 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One Gerry Lyons: Yes, sure, sorry. Gillian Hoyle: This is growing and growing over the next few years, so if you don’t have any capacity for them, like, what is our option? I have two children, currently in primary one and primary two, and by your projections, Park Mains is going to be too big by the time we get to that stage. Gerry Lyons: I don’t know where you’re getting that from, to be honest with you. Gillian Hoyle: Julie Calder is where I got the information. Gerry Lyons: If the projections, for example, take you to 2200, what’s in those projections at the moment is placing requests. One of the options we have that if there comes a point where we think that placing requests are negatively impacting on a catchment area, we then refuse those placing requests. So, any figure there already includes placing requests, 160, roughly and they would all be refused to ensure that it does not impact on the children for whom that’s a catchment school. Gillian Hoyle: You’re saying that the capacity at the moment is 1,400 and that Erskine community is unhappy that that would drop to 800 but if you were to build a new high school it’s going to obviously take an amount of years for that to happen. So, surely at that stage there are changes you can make to Park Mains, you can make it more community based, have more space for the community, whilst we’re building a school that we clearly need in this area. Gerry Lyons: To be honest with you, I don’t know. You’ve got a 1,400 school that’s got education facility for 1,400 young people, classrooms etc. We do not need to do anything to that building apart from add an extension, to meet our statutory requirements, which is to fulfil the catchment demand for that school, and we believe the plans we’ve got are going to allow us to do that. Gillian Hoyle: So, you can guarantee that there’s going to be capacity? Gerry Lyons: I don’t give guarantees, one of the big errors that this Council made was giving guarantees. What I’m saying to you is, with what I know at the moment, I am confident that we are not going to find ourselves in a situation, where, as you’ve described, you can’t get your child into the school in first year, that’s your catchment school. F3: It’s tricky though because we’re getting mixed messages, only at a meeting six months ago Julie Calder did say that Park Mains would reach capacity in six months, sorry, in eight years. So, I’m struggling, she’s obviously looking at the same numbers as you-, Gerry Lyons: Yes, so two things about that, one is that it won’t go beyond capacity, two, we’ve not factored in the placing request issue-, F3: 160’s not going to make a difference. Gerry Lyons: It is. Gillian Hoyle: But you also didn’t factor in the new housing in Erskine that’s been approved. (Various voices join in about the Erskine development.) Page 384 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One Gerry Lyons: That peak issue only lasts for a short space of time and it then it starts to come back down. So, we’ve got plans in place for all of that, we’re confident that what we’ve got in place will deliver the secondary education that you need. We will have further discussions about this once we move beyond the statutory consultation on the primary, which is what we’re here for. David: Yes, but it’s meant to be happening in 2027. F3: There are options. David: Park Mains is meant to be happening by 2027. Gerry Lyons: Yes, it is. David: So, why not spend the 30 million here rather than in Erskine? M5: I think in the background of what people are saying there, I think a good question to ask would be, ‘How are the Council and the Council officers going to be held accountable for the process that we’re going through just now?’ Gerry Lyons: So, I can understand the question, one of the things about this process, and I’ve said this right from the start, and I’ll say it again tonight, is that I am the named person for this. I am leading this process, I am leading this consultation, and I believe we’re doing the right thing so I will hold myself accountable for that, and I will invite you to hold me accountable if, in fact, what I say to you is what we’re going to deliver, we don’t deliver. M5: What will be the mechanism for that? What will be the mechanism for holding you accountable? Gerry Lyons: The mechanism? M5: Yes. Gerry Lyons: Yes, well, as with everything, if I don’t do the work that I’m meant to do and I get it wrong, then there would be disciplinary procedures, performance management, all of those things that I would be subject to. But do you know what, more importantly than that, I would be subject to myself saying, ‘I thought I was going to do something and I got it right.’ M5: Would you resign? Gerry Lyons: I would have resigned, yes, and I would resign. M5: Because it’s that accountability that, as a community, I think is lacking from the lessons learned. Gerry Lyons: Yes, I’ve already said that this is important enough to me that I will put my reputation on the line to say, ‘I’m going to deliver this.’ If I don’t deliver it, or I make a complete mess of it, God forbid I don’t do either of the two of them, then I would go, ‘Aye, fair do’s,’ and I would walk away. M5: You don’t need to do that, so it shows that you’re motivated and driven to achieve that, but for me, whilst it’s nice to hear that, we need to have something more than just you and your reputation. Because I was here ten Page 385 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One years ago and I was sold the dream of one school for all, because I didn’t like the idea of two schools. I certainly don’t like the idea of three because of, just, the rivalry between them. So, to get to the, ‘Sold the dream, buy the house, build and live in a community,’ a community which is pretty much divided by a railway line that really annoys me. ‘We’re all in this together,’ we’re not, it’s either Dargavel or Bishopton, to me, it’s one. The third school is creating a bit of strength between everybody that it impacts but at the same time, it’s driving a bit more of a divide. So, the Council are front and centre for driving the success. Gerry Lyons: Yes, absolutely, and I’m going to say two things to you about that. One is, never at any point am I going to ask this community to put their faith in anything I actually say, because why would you? What you need to see is action, you need to see transparent communication throughout the process, responsiveness to issues that have been raised, and some of those have been raised tonight, and that will be that. Building trust back with this community’s not going to take one statutory consultation, building trust back with this community’s going to take five years of delivering what we said we’d deliver. So, no, I don’t want you to think I’m saying that, you know, ‘I will be accountable so trust me,’ I don’t want you to do that. What I want you to do is to watch the actions, watch the behaviours, watch the processes and engage with them as fully as you can, as you’ve done tonight, which is brilliant, and we will help grow it and respond to things. It will only be at that point, at the end of it, that you can say to me, ‘Gerry, aye, do you know what,’ or, ‘Gerry, I told you that you were getting it wrong.’ But I don’t want trust in people, I want systems and structures that are tight, that you can look at and go, ‘Aye, that looks robust and that looks as though it’s going to drive-,’ I take your point about the community, I do. David: Can I make a comment that, since you came on board, since Janie’s about, there has been a hell of a lot more consultation than there ever was in the past. But the problem is, you’ve still got Councillors there who think the way ahead is the way it’s been going. I’m sorry, I saw two Education Board meetings where politics came into the exercise. You guys can’t touch that, you have to accept what they decide. So, this meeting that’s going to happen in whatever time it is-, Gerry Lyons: May 25th. David: That’s why I asked the question, is it going to be just the Education Board or is it going to be the whole Council? I’m sorry, the Education Board has been culpable in a lot of the problems that this community is experiencing, and from that point of view we need to see a bit of a sea change in the whole attitude to how the provision of education, and leisure and recreation-, twenty-minute rule, out the window, you know, three to eighteen provision, out the window. We’re now seeing a huge focus on primary education (Timecode 00:40:00), and that is very important, and that has to happen, but the bottom line comes, the next phase, which is secondary education, and there’s been a huge silence on that because the Education Board do not Page 386 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One want to see any change. Now, the bottom line is, the process for child education is for children and communities, not for the accountants, and that’s something that’s got to be borne in mind throughout all of this exercise. You failed badly in this community, Renfrewshire Council has got a big task to pick up in getting it right this time. Gerry Lyons: Thanks David and I’m just going to note those comments. I suppose, the only one I would come back on is the issue about for the community, not for the accountants, and if I lived in this community I’d be saying the same. I have a fiscal responsibility, I don’t have a blank cheque, I don’t have an opportunity to spend as much as, you know, whatever. I have to work within a budget and I have responsibility to the whole Council around that. That’s the only issue I would pick up but I do take your point about the politicians. I’ve heard you saying it before and I completely understand why you feel that way. M4: I was just going to ask, so August 2027 is the hard objective time that we’re trying to achieve. So, site nine is what has been proposed and that’s going forward in the consultation and the proposal. If we say no to that, beyond that, that timeframe’s gone, we can’t achieve that. Gerry Lyons: No. M4: So, really the consultation isn’t about the proposal of where it is because we’re beyond that, because we all have kids that we want to get into primary school or primary one for August 2027. So, we have to really accept that, is what I’m trying to clarify. We’re accepting it’s site nine and we’re moving forward and we need to use the opportunity now to make sure that we achieve the-, Gerry Lyons: The timeline. M4: The timeline, and not make the mistakes as we had with this one, which is I know is what we’re trying to achieve. But a lot of good points have been raised about, like, the figures for the schools and stuff like that, so my question really is, is this going to really be achievable in the timeframe? And then are we, like the lady over there said, going to be in eight years’ time, where we’re hoping-, some of us are hoping to stay here for the rest of our lives or for a long period of time. Is that really going to be achievable? Because for some of us, we’re actually considering whether the next year’s going to be worth staying here because (talking over each other). Gerry Lyons: Aye, of course, because at the end of the day, you’ve got to make the right decision for your child, haven’t you? So, I’m happy to come back and have further discussion about Park Mains, and I know you’re very concerned about it, and I want to have further discussion with you about it. The primary perspective, the team, we know it’s tight but we believe we’re going to deliver it. We also know the imperative that’s on us to deliver it for the children in the area and for the community. So, we believe we can do that, we set out to do it, and everything we’re doing is around that timeline. We are going to start conversations very soon about, ‘What if it looks as though it’s slipping a wee bit? What can we do to, kind of, buy ourselves some time?’ That’s a different part of the conversation. Page 387 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One M4: Sorry, Gerry, can you quantify how it is if we say no to the proposed site? It’s off the online or the forms that we’ve sent in? Gerry Lyons: Yes. M4: So, are you legally obliged to say no if-, how many people is it (talking over each other). Gerry Lyons: Well, it’s not got a, kind of, X% type thing, it’s about the way and the range of views. If we get a position that we do not think supports our position, we have to present that to the board to say, ‘This is not a supported proposal,’ and then they would make a decision one way or another. Then, potentially, it’s back to looking at another site or another plan, or-, M4: That will increase the costs because we’ve already got the site and we’ve got it for how we’ve got it. Gerry Lyons: Not necessarily increase the costs but certainly would lead to a slippage in time. M4: Right, anyone else got a question? Gerry Lyons: Okay folks, I’m conscious that it’s the worst chaired workshop in the world, it was supposed to finish at 7:55. I’m going to take one more question and then we’ll swap round but you can come back with things you’ve not had a chance to ask at the very end. Gillian Hoyle: I’m going to come back to Park Mains, I’m sorry. I have asked this and you know at the last two consultations I’ve been at, and I’m yet to hear a clear answer on what’s going to happen for Park Mains. We, as a community, need to know what’s going to happen in secondary school (talking over each other) Gerry Lyons: Your children will go to Park Mains secondary school. Gillian Hoyle: We said this about Dargavel (talking over each other) Gerry Lyons: Your children-, Gillian Hoyle: I’m sorry, and I get that you are a different community to who you were before, from Renfrewshire Council. You have told us all this before, we are sitting here, how many people have mentioned Park Mains high school to you? I have mentioned it at each of my sessions that I’ve come to and I’ve still not got an answer, I need an answer, we need an answer. Gerry Lyons: So, two things about that, one is, this is a statutory consultation on a proposal for primary education. Gillian Hoyle: We’ve lost that battle, we lost that a long time ago. Gerry Lyons: I don’t think so, I think we’ll recover that and I think you’ll end up with the-, the plan for this school is outstanding. This is going to be an outstanding primary school. F3: There is no plan, there’s a plot, a slight plot, there’s no plan. Page 388 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One Gerry Lyons: Yes, well, let me change it slightly then. The intent for this primary school is an outstanding primary school. F3: This one. Gerry Lyons: Across the two schools. But listen, I understand why you don’t believe me when I say that and I’m not asking you to-, F3: You use the word believe an awful lot, I don’t believe you are SQEP to do this role. Like, it is infuriating sitting here, this lady-, Gerry Lyons: You don’t believe I’m? F3: SQEP, I don’t think you’re suitably qualified to be in this role. This lady has expressed a number of times how upset she is and yet you’re palming everyone off. You could at least acknowledge-, Gerry Lyons: Sorry, I don’t intend palm anyone off and I’m sorry you don’t feel I’m qualified for the role. Again, I’m-, F3: You use the word believe continuously, you might believe that aliens are going to come and build the school, we’re not having it. Gerry Lyons: I’m going to disagree with you, what I’m going to say to you is, the conversation about Park Mains is a separate conversation which will happen at a separate time. F3: Not really when we’re looking at a site-, Gillian Hoyle: It’s not, exactly, this goes back to the campus we spoke about earlier. Gerry Lyons: Yes, but just in terms of the process, this is a statutory consultation on the primary proposal. I will happily come back with much more detail about Park Mains and much more discussion about Park Mains once this process is finished. But to some extent, you have to allow us to do what we’re setting out to do now, and then we will come back on the Park Mains issues much more. F3: But it’s related. Gerry Lyons: I’m sorry you don’t feel I’m qualified for the job, I just have to respect that, I’m surrounded by outstandingly qualified people. In terms of secondary education, I was a secondary Head Teacher for thirteen years, so whether that qualifies me or not, I don’t know. F3: So, you know how to run a school and educate children, it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re very good at town planning. Gerry Lyons: I’m not doing the planning, it’s my planning colleagues that are doing the planning and they’ll talk to you next door. Gillian Hoyle: Can I come back to your point on Park Mains and why we’re talking about this just now? Gerry Lyons: Yes, of course you can. Page 389 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session One Gillian Hoyle: One of the things that was proposed by the community was a campus that includes a high school and primary school, hence why we are bringing this up just now and want answers. But you are pushing that down the line and you’re not answering it, and that’s why-, Gerry Lyons: No, I’m not pushing it down the line, I’m telling you straight, Gillian, the answer is Park Mains secondary school. Gillian Hoyle: None of us-, F3: That’s on record, we’ll just list all our children and it’s on record they’ll go to Park Mains. Gerry Lyons: I just said to you that-, ?: (inaudible) Gerry Lyons: All our projections tell us that we will meet the secondary requirements of this community in Park Mains secondary school. F1: And see all the figures that (talking over each other) Gerry Lyons: We will continue to monitor that to make sure that we do but that’s what all our projections are telling us. F1: Is that you guys that are going to monitor it or is it all going to be independently reviewed? Because you obviously mucked it up royally the last time. Gerry Lyons: Yes, true, we are working with independent consultants. F1: So, you believe that your figures will be-, Gillian Hoyle: So, have you given us a guarantee? You said you don’t give guarantees. Have I got a guarantee that my daughter will get into Park Mains? I would want that in writing. Gerry Lyons: What I’m saying is-, M5: He’s going to resign, if he doesn’t-, Various voices talking over each other. Gillian Hoyle: I’m sure we’ve heard that one before as well. Gerry Lyons: The planning is on the basis that secondary education will be provided by Park Mains. If it starts to look as though that’s not the case, we will of course come back and tell you what the situation is and why. Gillian Hoyle: So, there’s not a guarantee? Okay. Gerry Lyons: Yes, okay, listen, thank you everyone, I’m sorry, I have to swap people round. I can get your question at the very end. I’m going to go next door, you all stay here and we’ll send the team in here, thank you. Recording ends. Page 390 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 Alasdair Morrison: Gerry Hannah: M3: F3: M3: Alasdair Morrison: M3: Alasdair Morrison: M3: Alasdair Morrison: I think we’re about good to go if everybody is back in the room. I’m sure you’re all warmed up after that first session with colleagues. So, the purpose of this second group, we’ll introduce ourselves in a second, is to talk about site location and transport particularly. So, what we’re aiming to do is, if you’ve got specific questions, we’ll try and deal with as many of these as we can within the allotted time, which is round about 30 minutes. We’re on record again, which you’ll have noticed from the first session. We’ll try and fit in as many people as possible, so if it feels as if a conversation’s going on for quite a time, we’ll try and break away from that to try and give as many people as possible a chance to as the questions they want to ask, to be as fair as possible. So, I’ll introduce myself first, I recognise a lot of faces from the information evenings before, I’m Alasdair Morrison, I’m the Council’s Head of Economy and Development, and I’m responsible for, amongst other things, planning and building control, land, property estates and such like. I’ll let my colleague here, Gerry, introduce himself. Thanks very much Alasdair , for those I haven’t met over the course of the evenings here, my name’s Gerry Hannah, I’m the Council’s Head of Climate, Public Protection and Roads, so that covers the, kind of, roads infrastructure, transport, active travel in and around the school. But obviously, if there are questions about the existing school, the new school and the, kind of, wider development, we can try and pick up on those at the same time. I think how we ran the session next door, and I’m not sure how the session you’ve just had run in here was, we basically just opened the floor up to questions from yourselves, tried to get round as many people, as Alasdair said, within the time we have. If anybody feels they wanted to ask a question but maybe they didn’t want to ask it in a bigger group setting, if they want to just catch either maybe Alasdair or myself after it, and ask it on an individual basis, then obviously we’re happy to do that, because not everybody feels comfortable in doing these things in a group setting at times. So, really, over to yourselves. Have we lost one of the mics? Oh no, it’s here. Just so we don’t have to yo yo again. We’ve silenced you right away (Laughter). Just to save us getting the steps. I’m going to digress a little bit because Alasdair , you said Head of Planning, is that right? Yes. Why are we not following the RIBA plan of works for the programme? I raised that question in the last session and the answer was a bit woolly, so your detailed planning is before starting on site by three months, why is not the RIBA plan of works? You’re following the Hub process to procure it, so it should be aligned to RIBA. Yes, I think where that’s come from-, I’ve had that question raised before but I think it’s because what’s been presented here, in the programme timeline, Page 391 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 in the documents is a more generic-, I mean, it’s been done in a sequential way to make it look as if you’re working your way through the maze but in reality, there will be a number of things happening at the same time. But the process that we will follow will be along the lines of the RIBA process that you’re referring to. It maybe doesn’t come across like that in the way that it’s set out there. We talked about the programme before, there’s plenty of excess in there, I’m not going to go over that again because you can get that in the transcript. But, Head of Planning, your planning process would be before building work, and you’d expect to see that when you’re doing your detail, to start following the process and getting the engagement and the statutory consents. The Hub model is predicated by the RIBA plan of work, so you’d want to get that before you start getting your approvals to proceed as a design team and contractor. Yes. But that programme is the complete opposite. So, where are you picking up on-, do you want to pick up specifics in terms of (talking over each other) what you think-, March 2025, planning application, July ’25 start on site. That’s three months, okay the duration for planning if it all goes well is fine but your sequence of actually putting your detailed planning in is right at the very end. No, I don’t think it is, so the thing is, I don’t think when that’s come across-, I think that’s the approval of the planning application, I don’t think that’s the submission of the planning application. I think it’s, again, this way of trying to show it in a, if you’ll forgive me, in a sequential manner to make the dates, but in reality, a lot of these things will be overlapping and running in parallel, that would be my interpretation of it, in terms of trying to show-, I would expect it to be a year before, and yes, you could rejig that, but you’d be able to save about six months to nine months in that programme by actually looking at it in detail. Well, I guess, what we’ve done with this programme is to build in a degree of contingency to make sure that we can still deliver by the date that we’re aiming for which is, as you heard from Gerry, August 2027. Yes, we’ve covered it. I mean, you don’t want to condense and concertina everything, and then find that at the last minute we’re not able to achieve it, because as you heard from Gerry, that wouldn’t be a great scenario for us to be in. M3: Alasdair Morrison: M3: Alasdair Morrison: M3: Alasdair Morrison: M3: Alasdair Morrison: M3: Alasdair Morrison: M3: It would be a riot, I think, and I mean that in the sense of we would be a mob-handed riot, not as in having a party, just to make that clear. This one, I asked a question in the last session and I was asked to bring it to this one instead. My question is a two-parter, so I asked in the last session about the design remit of the consultants. Are they designing a school in isolation or are they designing a school within the definition of the masterplan? The Page 392 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 reason I asked the question is, a school in isolation, fine, it shouldn’t be, it should be within the definition of the masterplan, the reason I ask that is because of the implications to transport. Right now, there is an issue with buses, there are no lay-bys, there’s nowhere for them to stop really, even outside the school here, it’s on the road, not off the road. For an additional school within a stone’s throw, because we aren’t getting a different site, we’re getting that site, how are all the additional transport requirements going to be taken into cognizance? Especially given that we’re not fully developed out as a masterplan, the reason I’m asking is, proportionality of the section 75, half of that main artery hasn’t been built yet, the design is up for grabs. Can we not, as an opportunity to learn from the lessons of shoehorning things in, look at the integration to the wider community and factor in the buses, the cars, the active travel and all the things that we need to do to make it successful and lighten the load and pressure from this school, which is just down the road from it? Alasdair Morrison: I’ll let Gerry pick up on that but we had a very useful meeting to that effect with BAE just last week, so. Gerry Hannah: Right, thanks very much for that, a really good question. I’m not sure whether you’ve been to any of the information evenings before so, if I’m about to repeat myself please tell me. So, on the boards next door, and you’ll maybe get a chance to have a look before you leave this evening, obviously some of the information’s in here but it’s maybe easier to see on a larger scale, one of the things we’ve concluded so far is, getting a transport consultant in to speak to us at an early stage. So, we realise obviously, as part of the consultation we’re taking forward a proposed site for the consultation, at that point we engaged with a transport consultant, just to do some early work, early prep work for us and not-, so outwith the scope of a transport assessment to accompany the planning application, just to give us a, kind of, early head’s up in terms of the kinds of things that we should be looking out for. Some great points you made there in terms of the road and influencing the infrastructure yet to come because that was one of the key things that they picked up in terms of active travel corridors and wider, shared walking and cycling routes, and how we can deliver that working in partnership with BAE. That’s going to be a big focus for us going forward, so obviously yes, the pick- up and drop-off at the schools, those kinds of things. With the greatest will in the world this isn’t all going to be solved by active travel and we’re not silly enough to try and think that’s going to be the case but that’s going to be a big focus, on how we can encourage that as much as we possibly can. Big credit to the school, the staff here, the pupils, the parents who support active travel existing at this school, it’s the highest percentage active travel at any school across Renfrewshire. So, that’s a real positive-, F2: It's not a choice, it’s a necessity so that we don’t crash or kill children on the way to school. Gerry Hannah: Yes, I appreciate that and what we’d be looking to do is continue to work with this school and the new school in terms of the school travel plans and Page 393 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 M3: Gerry Hannah: Alasdair Morrison: M6: Alasdair Morrison: Gillian Hoyle: Gerry Hannah: how we can make that as successful as we possibly can. But all of the points you’ve raised in there are things that we will be working with, with BAE and the plans going forward. The active travel aspect’s part of your net zero strategy, so I understand the net zero strategy and your active travel but the active travel isn’t working. My daughter goes to this school, she is incredibly upset when there are awards being given for park and walk. I don’t park and walk, I’ve got work to get to. She is my priority in life but I’m here for 7:45, eight o’clock every day dropping her off, it’s okay at that time of day but see if you come ten, fifteen minutes later, it gets difficult. If you come about half an hour after that, it’s almost impossible and if you’re close to nine o’clock, there’s no way you’re getting to work on time. Active travel is a joke, we’re a fair-weather community on the west coast of Scotland, if it’s great and it’s sunny we’ll walk, if it’s wet, no way in hell, and if it’s snowing, no chance. It can’t be based on policies that are written for the UK and Scotland wide, it has to be something fit for purpose for this community, and active travel is not that. No, and again, we accept that that’s not going to be the single solution. As I said, it would be silly of us to sit here and think that was going to be the one stop shop to solve all of our problems, it’s not, it’s about how we make the school as connected as possible but recognising that there are other solutions at play as well. So, as Alasdair said, looking at the pick-up, drop- off facilities. We appreciate there is a peak in the morning, the peak’s probably spread out a lot more in the morning than it is in the afternoon and the afternoon’s probably a, kind of, more condensed peak, and that’s the stuff we’ve started working with the school and Parent Council on, on how we can try and bring solutions to the table for that as well. Sorry, the lady next you has maybe just got a question, while we’re here. That gentleman there next with the pen. It is a follow on from that question. Sorry, no, we’ll go there first (Timecode 00:10:00) and then we’ll come to you. Sorry, it is my last one, I know that I-, with all the research that’s been done is there going to be any retro work done to this school? Because that only walking path in from one side of the village is awful, it’s dangerous, there are children getting knocked over, there are people with prams getting pushed out of the way, there are bikes, scooters up your ankles. There are children getting injured and hurt, it’s not safe. So, with all the work that’s being done on this proposal, what is the plan to make this area safe? Okay, that’s a really good point and something Alasdair and I met with BAE last week to talk around, the existing infrastructure and what we can look at. So, the transport consultant is not only looked at future improvements and the, kind of, new school coming on board, but actually, ‘What can we improve existing-infrastructure-wise?’ The path network around the school was an area that’s flagged up as an area to for us to work with BAE on. Just for clarity, there is a very small amount of the road network here that the Page 394 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 Council are responsible for, it’s still in the developer’s hands, and that’s something the Council obviously looks to adopt, the road, when the developer says it’s ready for adoption. So, that’s a process we work through with BAE and we’ll continue to do so. Kevin from the Parent Council has flagged up what I would term the, kind of, remote path to link the school to the-, Gillian Hoyle: The path that comes through the park. Gerry Hannah: Yes, and that’s an area that we want to follow up as a priority in terms of, there was a previous suggestion that the whole path network was three metres wide, there’s no way the whole path network is three metres wide, that’s the, kind of, standard we want to see. So, we recognise there are some pinch points, some pinch locations on the route there-, Gillian Hoyle: Is that bit owned by the Council currently? Has that been handed over? Gerry Hannah: No. Gillian Hoyle: Could you not hold them responsible for (talking over each other) Gerry Hannah: So, that’s for us to work with BAE on and see how we can actually improve the infrastructure that’s existing up to a standard that we’d want to adopt. Gillian Hoyle: So, BAE have a really high safety policy and that’s one of their critical actions, I’m quite sure if it’s highlighted that there are children getting injured, it’s going to be quite an important one for them. Gerry Hannah: Yes, and Kevin, to be fair, has been highlighting that to BAE at the joint meetings we’ve had with them and the Parent Council, and it is an area we will take forward. We’re working with (inaudible) on this at the moment, what improvements are required for this school, what needs to be designed into the new school, and what happens along that western link road, so we are working-, (talking over each other) a responsibility of getting children into this school safely regardless of who owns the street or the road, so-, Absolutely. This gentleman here. So, my quick question was, you said it’s the highest percentage of active transport at this school, what is that percentage, and what is the Council average? What would you be projecting it to be for the new school? I’m assuming it would be no more or equal to the average for the whole area, for the whole Council. So, I don’t have the exact figures to hand but I think, off the top of my head, the figures were around 62.9%. For here? Louisa Mahon: Gillian Hoyle: Various voices: Alasdair Morrison: M6: Gerry Hannah: M6: Gerry Hannah: For here, yes, I don’t have the exact figures to hand and I’d need to double check that, so don’t quote me on that and I’ll be able to confirm the figures. Page 395 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 That was, from memory, a couple of percentage points higher than the closest school. So, that’s something that we would look at as a minimum standard going forward now, because we’ve been really successful and the kids have been really successful in really promoting that. We recognise that won’t be every single day in November and December. We’re not, again, silly enough to think that’s going to be the case either. But we want to provide opportunities as much as possible. If anyone has looked at the bike sheds outside here in the morning, they are absolutely jam packed and we’ve worked with the school in providing additional infrastructure, and that’s what we would do with any new school location as well. Regardless of what site it was, we would work with the school in terms of identifying what infrastructure would make it as successful as possible for active travel. M6: Thank you. M5: So, you’ve touched upon the provision of transportation getting into this school, obviously it’s a bit of an issue, particularly I see, around the intersection between Slateford Road and Craigton. It’s a bit crazy in the morning, so, it’s already like that, we’ve got buses taking people to Park Mains, buses taking people, I would assume, into Renfrew, to Trinity, and we’ve got buses taking people elsewhere. What are we going to do when we add another school into that mix? Is there going to be any retroactive work to the existing infrastructure, to-, do you know what I mean? You’re never going to get a bus down the road, down Slateford in the morning, to get to a new school because you can’t get a car down there in the morning. So, what’s going to be done to address that? M4: Especially with having 1,500 more-, M5: Exactly, yes, because-, Gerry Hannah: Yes, so, again, really good points. So, the work we’ve been doing at the earliest stage just now, is purely focused on the new school for now, it’s then about taking that work and taking that much wider. So, within the programme you’ll see obviously it refers to a planning application, within that planning application process we would be doing a transport assessment that looks at the transport in the widest possible sense. It’s not just about walking and wheeling to and from school, but the reason for getting the transport consultant on board so early with us, is so that we can do quite a lot of that work in advance. We don’t want to wait for a planning application to then tell us, ‘Here’s what you need to do in a relatively short period of time.’ We’re trying to get as much of that early work done that we possibly can. So, if you look at the junction capacity for instance, the junction at the bottom of the road, the traffic signals junction there, that operates at about 60% capacity, which is really, really low, really low for a, kind of, urban type junction arrangement. So, what we know is, we’ve got plenty of capacity there, ‘Right, okay, so where else is a concern?’ This transport consultant will tell us where else the concern is. The example you’ve used there of buses being on the road, ‘How many buses are there going to be?’ That transport Page 396 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 modelling, telling us where the buses are going to be going, those are the next, kind of, steps of work that we’ll be looking to take forward. M5: What, realistically, can you do? Because it’s a canyon, Slateford Road’s a canyon, there are houses either side of it. There is nowhere to put buses unless you drop the kids at the top of Slateford Road and expect-, David: (talking over each other) don’t have a secondary school in Erskine (inaudible). I’m sorry, it comes back, it comes back, how long is it going to be? This gentleman here was going to ask a question. A few weeks ago, my wife and I passed the front of the school and we met our local police officer who was there advising some order into the drop-off location. He said he was concerned about the safety issues, so I knew I was coming to these meetings and so, a few weeks hence I decided, I might even have been watching your car, I don’t know. I stood-, it’s okay. I decided to look at what was happening, so I was there round about, maybe a wee bit after you, at 8:15. There were two cars on the east side-, no, no, the south side, you guys have got this north and south, east, west rubbish. Anyway, I think it’s the south side, two cars. By the time 8:55 came, there were 25 cars and then the people have got to stop when the other one’s coming the other way, the bus is there. What we have in Bishopton, in the existing school in Old Greenock Road, it’s like the dodgems sometimes. What has been created for this school is exactly the same thing, it’s not any different. So, I, kind of, thought, ‘What would be the solution?’ You mentioned lay-bys, you’ve got an undeveloped piece of land on the south side of this school, is that Renfrewshire land? The immediate acre and a half just-, Right, that would be a good site for a short stay car park. That is the proposal that we’re currently working on, I wouldn’t call it a short stay car park-, Well, I think you should work on that, that would take-, But a drop-off and pick-up location for the school. Think about the capacity that you need for that car park and that would take the cars off Arrochar Drive. Yes, it should, if it’s successfully implemented it should make a great deal of impact on that issue that you’ve raised. Whatever the location for the new school, you do the same thing. That is currently in the plans. Alasdair Morrison: M1: Alasdair Morrison: M1: Alasdair Morrison: M1: Alasdair Morrison: M1: Alasdair Morrison: M1: Alasdair Morrison: M1: So, you have the long-term car parking for teachers etc. that you have here. I might add the drop-off procedure, the cars that were coming in to Arrochar Drive, I saw them drive down into the drop-off area, they dropped their Page 397 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 children and away they went. The bus came in, it dropped off the children and away it went. The problem was the on-street parking. Alasdair Morrison: Well, for me, you’ve highlighted one of the most significant issues, the way in which people are currently using the infrastructure is not perhaps the way it was originally designed to work. But it’s working in that way out of necessity as much as anything else, part of which is the fact that the western link road has never been completed in time for the school operating and for an awful lot of the housing being built. If that hadn’t been the case, I think we’d probably be having a slightly different discussion (Timecode: 00:20:00). M1: I notice in your documentation, the consultation documentation, that you will indeed take on board the traffic consultant and it is highly important, because once the new school’s-, all that will mean is increased cars, increased buses, it’s a problem now, it will be at least twice the problem if you introduce-, you don’t need a consultant to tell you that. F1: I’ve lost what I was going to ask because it was part of what you were saying. Oh, you were saying that the way that people are using that road isn’t the way that it was designed, how are they supposed to use it? Alasdair Morrison: Well, what I mean by that in terms of not the way that they’re using it, is that if the road infrastructure was all in place and Arrochar Drive was complete all the way up to meet Craigton Road-, A through road, yes, okay. F1: Alasdair Morrison: Then I don’t think people would necessarily all be looking to do a U-turn in the road and come back the same way, because they would have a different alternative road to-, That’s up to the developers then, I take it, and not the Council. F1: Alasdair Morrison: It’s up to the developer, BAE updated us at the meeting last week, Gerry, they hope to have the whole of the western link road completed by November ’25. F1: Right, okay. M5: Is the site then, position nine or whatever it is, is that not the-, sorry, is that not then just going to force more traffic onto that junction at Slateford and Craigton? You’re then going to have the added complication of people from that end trying to this school and people from this end trying to get to the new school. Or trying to get in and out of the village using-, Gerry Hannah: So, just in terms of the junction capacity, just at Craigton and Slateford there, is that what you’re reckoning will be a pinch point? M5: Well, yes, in the morning it’s carnage, there are people parked up on the pavement, you can’t see round the corner, there are cars everywhere, people everywhere, kids everywhere, buses everywhere. Gerry Hannah: Again, it’s one of those things that with the current road network not being fully complete, we really need to look at the transport modelling with the assumption that that road network is complete, and how the road network Page 398 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 is then going to be used with that completed section. Again, junction capacity we’re not looking at being an issue for us, it’s more about, as you say, maybe the mention of things like the buses and how we can look at potential solutions that might be in place for the buses. From a wider infrastructure point of view, obviously the pick-up, the drop-off-, the parking facility, rather, at the train station and the completion of that is obviously going to be a thing that we’ll be looking for the developer to take forward as well. So, it’s not just focused on what we do about one particular junction, it’s really looking at the traffic modelling taking in the whole of the road network and what potential solutions there might be for us. Louisa Mahon: Forgive my ignorance about that particular area, but see if there were improved drop-off and pick-up facilities at this school and wherever the new school is, would that ease some of that parking you’re talking about? M5: It’s not so much about parking, it’s about through traffic and buses, and I get what you’re saying about junction capacity, I’m sure over a 24-hour period that junction is pretty lightly used but at particular peak times it’s exceptionally busy. Not just actually the junction but further up Slateford Road, we have buses that tend to hold just outside the development in the morning, that blocks that up. You get people trying to get out of the estate, they can’t get out because people are going round buses coming into the estate, you’ve then got buses stopping at various points all the way down Slateford Road, and I know it’s the same along Craigton Drive. That’s only going to get worse by adding another school in that location and even by completing that link road, that’s going to make it worse again. And there’s nothing that you can do to Slateford Road or to that junction because it’s hemmed in on all sides by houses. M4: Can I just expand on this gentleman’s point, sorry? Just because where we’re going to be putting that link road, we’re now going to be-, so at the moment they come down Slateford and turn left onto Craigton Drive, all we’re going to be doing is changing them to turn right onto Craigton Drive and go all the way along. Now we’re going to have two schools on the same road, so an 800-pupil school and 500 and whatever this one is. Then they’re all going to go down-, alright, a high percentage are all going to go down to join the motorway for the M8, to carry on to work. So, what we’re doing, that junction I think you said was 60% now, that’s a set of traffic lights that’s just going to go nuts with an extra 800-, Sorry, would people not, if they were coming from Slateford from the north end or the west end-, Depending on this gentleman’s point of view-, Would they not have the alternative of being able to come Craigton Drive as well? So, they wouldn’t have to go down by Arrochar. Alasdair Morrison: M4: Alasdair Morrison: M4: Yes, and I’m not saying everyone will, but it will be a lot quicker to carry on the road-, say they’re dropping off at the new school, site nine, if they carry on they’re going to be entering the road, Barrangary Road, to get onto the motorway a lot quicker than doing a U-turn, which we don’t really want Page 399 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 them to do anyway because then they’ll start-, go down the road, do a U- turn and then go back round the loop of Craigton with all the speed bumps and-, Or go out by Slateford, I guess, would be the other option. Alasdair Morrison: M4: Or go out by Slateford but again, if they’re doing that and going on the M8, and going towards Glasgow, then they’re going a much longer route, which people are-, this gentleman here is trying to get to work. I go the other way, so it’s fine for me but everyone else is going to be going that direction. Alasdair Morrison: One of the things the Council would, I guess, point out, is that if the intended or proposed pick-up and drop-off facilities are there, then when people come back out of that pick-up and drop-off facility, they would have the alternative of going either way. So, they wouldn’t all necessarily go the same way, they could go the way that suits them best, the way that suits their-, M4: They would have an alternative but the large majority, in my humble opinion, would probably use the quickest route because I would, if I was going into Glasgow for work, I would use the quickest route to get there on time. All the traffic that you’re going to hit is just going to be amplified. So, I know you would have the option, you would, to go round, and you may on some days use that because it might be quicker to go round than wait in the queue at the traffic lights at the bottom of that road. But with an extra 800-, I’m not saying everyone will be using a car, but for a large majority, even if you said half, use the car-, Gerry Hannah: I appreciate that the number 800 obviously sounds an exceptionally high number. M4: I know that’s a max capacity. Gerry Hannah: Let’s assume all 100% use the car, in the worst case scenario, 800 is stretched over a longer period of time in the morning, as you highlight, with things like breakfast club, with arrivals at school tending to be more spread out. The problem, or the main pinch point we see when we’re working with the school here, is when people start arriving and doing pick-ups from 2:30 onwards. That becomes much more of a problem for us and that’s where we’re directing the transport consultant-, with the local knowledge the school and parents are giving us in terms of what they see as being the problems here. ‘Are they going to be replicated there? What can we do to minimise the chances?’ Just to give that, kind of, reassurance, and I appreciate the information that’s been given in the past and maybe there’s a lack of trust in what’s being said, and I totally understand that, and I wouldn’t try and convince you otherwise. But in terms of that junction capacity for 60% taking another 800 cars over a 45 minute window, for instance, it’s not something that’s going to max out the capacity of a traffic signal junction. It’s more about the other infrastructure that we need to look at, in terms of clearing the road space and making sure that there isn’t that congestion, people stuck behind buses and the like, and having those discussions with bus operators, that they can’t Page 400 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 be stacking buses up in the middle of a network and causing issues. That’s for us to take away and have those conversations. This gentleman and then this lady in the grey here. Alasdair Morrison: M3: I’ll go back to my point earlier on, and it’s lessons learned and it’s what’s right for the community, and I totally agree with all the transportation issues. The school cannot be designed in isolation, that’s why I asked the question, a simple question, is the remit of the design team the school or the integration of the school? It’s very, very different, it has to be the integration of the school, it’s got to the be the wider impact of all these concerns within the community. I absolutely agree there’s got to be something done at the school, at the destination but there has to be something done throughout the masterplan. Slateford Road is a nightmare, I don’t go near it, not in the morning times, because the buses are just parked all the way up, they’ve got nowhere else to go. The problems outwith the development, ‘Don’t care about it,’ that’s what BAE think, they only care about their money, they’re developers. I don’t blame them for it, that’s just the world that they live in, that’s how they work. We have to live with this and you’re there to protect us from the developer (Timecode 00:30:00), from the people that just want to cut every corner and make it as cheap as possible because it’s all about profits. If you don’t protect us, we’re going to get worse and it’s not a threat, that’s just-, Gerry earlier on said he was going to resign if this doesn’t work, we need accountability because the Council let us down horrendously before. So, the question I got asked to bring to this one, I didn’t get to ask at the other one, I moved here ten years ago, I was sold the dream of a community with one school for all the kids to go to. That’s how I grew up, I went to a 600 capacity primary school, I had no problems with the capacity, I liked the idea of one school, one community. We’re now having three schools, that’s horrendous, the politics between those schools is not acceptable. But section 75, I don’t understand, I’m not fully up to speed with section 75 agreements. It was proportionality and it was based against the original design, and capacity and number of residential units in the masterplan. That’s obviously grown significantly, why has the section 75 not grown along with it, based on the new plots and units? And if it’s not, why can’t we do something retrospectively like other developments across Scotland where they charge a levy per residential unit to contribute towards the infrastructure and costs around that area? Alasdair Morrison: Okay, there’s a lot in there, so, I mean, I probably won’t have time to answer all the queries about the section 75 but in a nutshell, the original outline planning permission, in terms of the number of residential units for Dargavel was 2,500. That was the original masterplan, the community growth area, the structural growth plan of yesteryear. BAE then came forward in about 2016, something like that, I might get the years slightly off here, but 2016, 2017, with a planning application to increase that by another 1,350. At the same time as doing that, and again, I can’t offer you an explanation tonight because I wasn’t involved at the time, I wasn’t even close to the project, the Council took the decision, amongst other things, amid other decisions that Page 401 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 were taking place which we could go into but, like I said, we probably won’t have time, in terms of the money for the Community Development Trust in Bishopton, money that was going to get put towards Newton Road playing fields. But the Council decided to then remove certain elements from within the section 75 for Dargavel as a result of granting that planning permission for the increased number of houses. I can’t answer the question as to why they did that in detail because, like I say, I wasn’t involved and I don’t think of the-, well, I know none of the officers who are here tonight were indeed still-, who are currently involved with the Council. So, that decision’s been taken, it has been, to use your terminology, watered down, if that was the terminology you used, or I’ll use that terminology. Section 75 was diluted to a significant extent between the 2012 version, the original planning application, and the 2018 version that we now have. The point you were making before about, ‘Will the new primary school be designed on the basis of, almost, from scratch, or will it be designed within the existing masterplan that we have?’ We’re faced with a number of constraints, not least of which is a masterplan that’s been agreed, a section 75 that’s been agreed, and a broad layout of where housing zones and where the infrastructure will go that’s been agreed. That is effectively baked in and that’s why we’ve only got the infrastructure that we’ve got. I can’t do anything about that as we sit here today, I can negotiate. with Gerry and other colleagues. with BAE to try and make the most of what we’ve got, Louisa was involved in that meeting as well. We’ve certainly insisted that they need to do an awful lot better in terms of completing infrastructure long before the school is here, long before the second primary school, and also to make that based on a much wider, much better, much more enhanced level of path network to allow active travel to happen in the places that it can happen. We’ve still to explore and finalise the details in terms of what that’ll mean for car parking, and drop-off, and lay off, bus lay-bys and such like, we’re still in discussion with them about that. But we will be doing everything we can to make the traffic system here work as best as it can, given the circumstances that we’ve got. M3: Sorry, I shouldn’t have given my mic away, but there’s no legal recourse for the dilution or watering down as you’ve said of the section 75? Because that’s a disservice to the community, section 75s never go down, they go up. Alasdair Morrison: Yes, sorry? No, we can, sorry-, a legal recourse, we can’t make it, there’s no way back from the discussion, as I said, unless BAE agree to it. It’s a multilateral agreement, it’s not a unilateral agreement, the section 75, so basically both parties need to agree. Gillian Hoyle: It wasn’t agreed with us, it wasn’t agreed with us as homeowners, can we not use our homeowners’ rights and take you guys to court over the fact that you’ve changed the section 75, changed things we were sold on, on our properties? We were sold community hubs, we were sold the central park that was meant to be amazing, we were sold the community centre. None of this has come to fruition because you guys diluted the section 75 on us without consulting the community. Page 402 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 That’s absolutely right. I can’t answer the question as to who was consulted because-, None of us were, we were here. Well, I take your word for that because I wasn’t involved at the time but in terms of-, well, actually you wouldn’t expect me to, I can’t give you legal advice in terms of what you would be entitled to do and what you wouldn’t be entitled to do. So, in other words, we take you to court. Has anybody counted the number of times the Council have said tonight, ‘I wasn’t here,’ because I’ve got about 50. We should have had a bingo card. Well, at the end of the day, if you’re not here, you’re not here. It wasn’t me (talking over each other) What are you meant to say? What would you say, if you weren’t here, what would you say? I think you guys should have had your due diligence to go back through the history, know the issues, know the questions, because a lot of them are repeat questions that we’ve asked time and time again, and never had an answer. So, you guys had a due diligence to trail back through all the other recorded meetings, identify what was going to come up, because we’ve asked it before, and have an answer for us. That’s a consultation, don’t feel insulted at all. Yes, and we’re doing that and we’re continuing to do it but we need the questions asked first. (talking over each other) recorded? So, Gerry, can you do a hands around the table for, ‘Put your hand up if you think this is the right site for this school?’ Can we have that? I’m more than happy to do it, it’s not a problem. So, put your hands up, if you’re a parent, put your hands up if you think-, A parent. Don’t let him not ask it. No, wait a minute, I’m not convinced that the people here want me to do that. No. So, no, I’m not going to do it. Okay, so we’ve got ten, fifteen minutes for extra questions for people to ask, thank you for that. David: Alasdair Morrison: Gillian Hoyle: Alasdair Morrison: Gillian Hoyle: M5: F4: Gerry Lyons: ?: Gerry Lyons: F4: Gerry Lyons: F4: M7: Gerry Lyons: M7: F4: M7: Gerry Lyons: Various voices: Gerry Lyons: M7: I didn’t understand that, why can we not have a parents’-, Page 403 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 F4: A vote. Gerry Lyons: Because not everyone wants that. F4: But to be honest, they’re basing it on-, so they’re talking about surveys that they’ve had-, Gerry Lyons: Could you sit down, please, if you don’t mind? Thank you. F4: So, they’re talking about surveys they’ve had, they’ve had 253 surveys and they’re saying that there’s an overwhelming difference in opinion on those. So, again, that’s a very small section of the community. Gerry Lyons: Excuse me, do you mind sitting down? Thank you. F4: Our concern is, the people that have filled out those forms don’t necessarily have the full information at hand because if they’re not at these meetings they’re not asking probing questions to identify PR spin versus fact. That’s our concern, and that’s why tonight, we’ve had the opportunity to ask the experts, we’ve had the opportunity to decide, ‘Are we satisfied with the answer of the experts?’ I know I’m not, so that’s why it would be interesting to gauge from the room, ‘How do we feel? And does the feeling tonight represent the 253 surveys that are filled out?’ I think that would be interesting. M7: Aye, maybe we should have a vote, ‘Should we be allowed to vote?’ Would that be alright? Gerry Lyons: Listen, at the end of the day, I’m chairing the meeting and whether it suits you or not, I’m not going to have a show of hands. We have a very detailed process, we’ve got an online questionnaire and if you’ve not filled it in, can I encourage you to do so? To get your views heard, especially if you’ve not already filled it in and you’ve now heard from the experts. That will be a very, very important document. What I don’t want to do in a public meeting is take it down to that level of, ‘Who’s hands like it and who’s hands don’t?’ Because you then move into a situation where there’s an element of peer group pressure in that, whether we like it or not, there’s an element of community pressure, and it doesn’t fit in with the criteria that I set at the start of this meeting, which was about respect, civility and a good experience for everyone. So, on that basis, I’m not going to have a show of hands, I’m happy to take any additional questions because we’ve still got five minutes, and if there are no questions I’ll finish the meeting. But if there are questions about the proposal, not about what happened five years ago or three years ago, but about the actual proposal, then I’m happy to take them, because in my role as chair that’s now the phase of the meeting that we’re now in. Gillian? Gillian Hoyle: I have one question, when are you going to come back to us about Park Mains, the secondary allocation? Gerry Lyons: I have to finish this proposal and that will take me to Easter, and I can’t give you a precise date but some time between Easter and June I will come back and have discussions about Park Mains. Page 404 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 Gillian Hoyle: The reason I’m asking is because I don’t think I can confidently say whether I think plot nine is the right allocation or not without understanding Park Mains, because I do not believe we’ve got the right allocation for the secondary school. Gerry Lyons: Okay, I disagree with you, I believe that I can show that, but it’s a discussion about Park Mains and this is a consultation about Dargavel Primary. Gillian Hoyle: It relates to the primary school for me. Gerry Lyons: Yes. F5: Is anything that’s said here tonight likely to change the proposal of preferred location or is it a done deal that it’s going to be-, Gerry Lyons: No, it’s not a done deal, we have to pull together, not just tonight, we’ve had another public meeting already, we’ve had all the information sessions, we’ve had the meetings with the statutory consultees, who have been-, well, I’ve not had the meeting with Dargavel Parent Council yet, I’ll do that on 12th March. I’m going to the Community Council tomorrow night, we’ve met with all the statutory consultees, we’ve met with the children, the teachers, the elected members. We have to pull all of that together as the outcome of the consultation, this is just one part of it, but having done that (Timecode: 00:40:00), we have a statutory responsibility, if we believe that there are clear messages about things that need to change, to take that on board and change them. That’s what we will do if we see that as coming across clearly from the responses. M7: Gerry, what’s the timescale on that then, in terms of decision making? Gerry Lyons: So, the statutory consultation finishes on 26th March, Education Scotland then have three weeks to do their work. So, they do, you know, they look at all of this, they’ve been here, they looked at all the documentation, they’re coming to both schools on the week beginning 26th. They then write a report, they’ve got three weeks to do that. We then have three weeks to respond to their report and then that’s all pulled together and it will be taken to a meeting of the elected members on the board on 23rd May. That will be the decision where it either goes forward or it stops and then the work, and that timeline that you’ve got there, will move forward from there. Yes. F1: If the proposed site goes ahead and you’re ready for August ’27, does that mean that the kids here get their playground back? Like, do the buildings outside get taken down? Gerry Lyons: The temporary classrooms have got a five year warranty on them and one of the things that we have looked at is how quickly we would remove them if we get to that position, and we can move them in a-, Frank? A matter of weeks. A matter of weeks, so yes. Frank Farrell: Gerry Lyons: F1: But the capacity, that’s the plan? Page 405 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 Gerry Lyons: Yes. I just wasn’t sure. What developer contributions are going to be extracted from the remaining phases of residential developments? Zero. Yes, we’re not doing that. F1: M3: Various voices: F1: Alasdair Morrison: I mean, I don’t know if it was with this group, forgive me, or if it was with the group next door earlier, but the section 75 agreement already sets out the developer contributions for the quantum of housing development for Dargavel. That’s what’s usually agreed at what’s called a planning in principle stage, which was that 2018 decision I referred to. Usually then when you come forward with your detailed layout and design of the houses, there’s no further discussion around that. That’s the normal way the planning process works, anything that comes additional in terms of developer contributions would be at the behest of BAE. There are examples around Scotland of other developments that don’t have section 75s and they apply a levy to the units of residential development built. Why are we not exploring that as a legal standpoint? I don’t know where these examples are but if you’re talking about the roof tax, as it became known in the media, it’s not legally possible to do that in Scotland. There’s case law in Aberdeenshire where they were significantly reprimanded as a Council for trying to do that with a big development to the south on one of the estates. The Highland Council are doing it. They don’t do a roof tax, they do-, They don’t do a roof tax, no, they do (talking over each other) No, it’s called a developer contribution standard, which is applied in terms of for new developments, and Renfrewshire Council is currently in the process of working towards having such approved guidance. Because there are a number of plots still to be developed and units to be built. There are. And we’ve already heard tonight, which will be minuted, and everyone already knows it anyway, that the section 75 was, as you said, diluted or watered down. Surely, we should be doing everything we can, or you as a Council should be doing everything you can, to regain as much money from the huge profits that these developers are making. They are laughing because they’re running away with it, plus we took money off the table willy nilly for some reason, who knows. They’ve all gone, whoever did that, they’re probably retired and having a great time. M3: Alasdair Morrison: M3: Alasdair Morrison: M3: Alasdair Morrison: M3: Alasdair Morrison: M3: Alasdair Morrison: Yes, well I-, Page 406 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 M3: We’re the ones left with that legacy, we’re the ones that are being robbed of a community that should be a lot stronger and better. Yes, tonight we’re talking about schools, what are these kids going to do at weekends and on evenings? When they get older and teenagers? There’s a huge capacity right now but when they’re older it’s going to be wild, and we’re left with that. Gerry Lyons: Yes, one of the really interesting things that’s come up through all the conversation we’ve had is that one. ‘What about the teenagers and the young people as they go through?’ And I think that is a really important thing to look at and to have conversations about, and to explore, so that’s certainly one aspect I think will come out of this consultation, that we will have a further look at, ‘Well, what can we offer our young people so that they’re not bored, and then because they’re bored, they then start to do things that they wouldn’t normally do?’ So, it’s a really helpful input actually. M3: But it’s going to cost money, everything does. Gerry Lyons: Well, at the moment we don’t-, M3: So, the developer question of a contribution (talking over each other) Gerry Lyons: Yes, at the moment we don’t know what it is. M3: But there must be other routes to get the money (talking over each other) Gerry Lyons: But the conversation is a good one to have, I think, and I appreciate you raising it. Okay, everyone, I’m aware-, Kevin: Gerry, can I ask one, sorry? Gerry Lyons: Aye, of course. Kevin: Just following on from that, in terms of any, kind of, building that we do with the school, anything else within Bishopton here, there’s got to be a community benefit aspect included into that in terms of the scoring matrix for any contactor etc. that’s approved. What is that going to look like for Bishopton? Is that money going to stay within Bishopton? Can we stipulate things such as contribution towards Holm Park, for instance, and the facilities there? Very simply, what the gentleman’s just said, can we get that, kind of, put in place, where it’s (talking over each other) children’s-, Gerry Lyons: I need to take that back to the procurement team, Kevin, but I will because I don’t know the answer. M7: Why are procurement not here? Gerry Lyons: We, kind of, went with the biggest issues that had come up in the early stages and procurement hasn’t really been one of them but that’s a question we don’t know the answer to. Procurement will be able to give you a steer and we’ll certainly going to come back to you with that. F1: The next time can we have people who are going to come and lead the bull by the horns, instead of people that say, ‘I believe,’ ‘I don’t expect you to have trust in me,’ ‘Don’t take my word,’? It’s not acceptable to have a leader that’s representing the community-, Page 407 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 Gerry Lyons: Listen, what I’m saying to you is-, M7: Don’t interrupt what the lady’s saying. Gerry Lyons: Sorry, pardon. F1: No, you’ve stood there through the whole first section using, ‘I believe,’ and saying, ‘You don’t need to trust what I’m saying,’ ‘Don’t take my words as a promise of delivery.’ No leader stands there and sets that tone, a leader leads by example. Gerry Lyons: I’m going to come back at you on that because I couldn’t disagree with you more. What a leader doesn’t do is say, ‘Believe me, believe me, believe me,’ when you believed people previous to me and they let you down. What I am asking you to do, is to watch the processes, watch the systems, watch the engagement, watch the progress through all of those things and then make a decision. Don’t take my word for it because you did that before. So, it’s not a failure of leadership in my opinion, what I’m saying to you is an honest steer, which is, ‘There’s loads to be done here, there are lots of processes to go through, were I you and I’d gone through what you’d gone through, then I would be reluctant to take someone’s word on it.’ F1: Take our (talking over each other) out of it-, Gerry Lyons: Just let me finish, and on that basis, I wouldn’t ask you to take my word for it but what I will ask you to do is to watch the actions, and hopefully at the end of that you’ll come back to me and say, ‘Gerry, you did deliver,’ and then that will be a good thing for the children. F1: (talking over each other) we want evidence, we want facts and we want information, take the emotion out of it, as a professional, on a professional level. This is not professional, it’s not been delivered professionally and we’re not-, Gerry Lyons: Okay, all I can do is to say, I note your point, thank you for making it, I completely disagree with it. F1: (talking over each other) Gerry Lyons: And that’s now nine o’clock so I have to bring it to a conclusion. Louisa Mahon: Thank you very much, everyone. F4: At what point do we find out-, so, of all the questions that have been posted out or the information grabs, what timeline are we looking at for getting that back to us? Gerry Lyons: So, once we pull all of this together, the timeline is that period between the consultation period finishing and all the reports being written. F4: (talking over each other) the transcription for tonight? Louisa Mahon: There were some key questions that we’ll get back to you asap on. If you give us, like, a week to come back to you, would that be okay? We’ve all got all your email addresses from everyone that’s here, so we can either try and get it out to you directly or we can put it out through the Parent Councils Page 408 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 Session 2 and the Community Council, would that be okay? So, key questions we’ve picked up tonight, we’ll get that (talking over each other) F4: When will the transcription for tonight’s meeting be available? Louisa Mahon: We normally have that around (talking over each other) David: The clock is ticking, the clock is ticking, we need to see action from the Council in getting this a bit better than it is. I can’t say they’re ever going to get it right, and BAE have-, they’re a corporate body, they’ve done everything that Renfrewshire Council asked them to do, and it’s the mistakes that have been made by Renfrewshire Council that have caused all of this. Gerry Lyons: Yes, and as I said at the start, we’ve got to now try to move forward to change that situation. Listen folks, I’m very aware of the time, our let only is until nine o’clock, thank you for coming along and thank you for your participation this evening. Recording ends. Page 409 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined Alasdair Morrison: Gerry Hannah: Alasdair Morrison: Louisa Mahon: Various voices: Louisa Mahon: Alasdair Morrison: Dougie: Louisa Mahon: -land estates, upcoming development and other things. I’ll let Gerry introduce himself. Thanks, Alasdair , for those I’ve not met yet over the course of the evenings we’ve had here, my name’s Gerry Hannah, I’m the Council’s Head of Climate, Public Protection and Roads. So, I’m here to talk about any, kind of, road related infrastructure development, both around the existing school site but obviously the proposed school site. Obviously, if there are questions around the wider development as well, then okay, we can try and address them at the same time. So, this first group tonight, for the first, I think we’ve got about 30 minutes, do we, round about, maybe just a bit under, was to focus on site location and transport issues. So, if we can keep any questions to that, we’ll obviously get these recorded as we go along and we’ll try, as far possible, to take it in turns in terms of, if somebody wants to speak, if they can indicate and put their hand up, and then we’ll try and deal with that question as we can. If anybody’s got something related to it, we’ll try and cover that same issue, so long as we keep tabs on time overall. We’ll try and obviously share that out amongst everybody around it so everybody gets a chance to have a say as far as we possibly can. Just to say, is everyone okay with us recording this? Yes, of course. We’ll do the transcript etc. for it, and if there’s anything that comes up that’s not, I guess, on topic in terms of site and also travel and transport, I’ll make a note of it. So, if there’s stuff we want to come back and meet with you about, or specific questions, I’ll keep a note of that and make sure that we do get back to you with what those issues are. And as Gerry covered, anything specific about the design of the school, you’ll cover it when you go through and join the second group. So, I’m quite happy to go with whoever wants to kick off. I’ll go first. In terms of site location, does that influence catchment areas? I’ve got a question around children at the existing school, so if you’ve got children at the existing school just now, the new school’s built, the catchment area’s drawn, and your children fall into the new catchment area, is there any impact in terms of the children at the current school? No, sorry, I know that’s-, from working with the team-, sorry, my name’s Louisa, I’m the Head of Marketing and Communications, I should have introduced myself, apologies everyone. If your child is currently at Dargavel Primary or even if your child is currently at Bishopton Primary School, irrespective of what happens with the catchment area, if you wish to remain, that’s absolutely fine. If you had siblings, you would then-, the sibling policy, you’ve got the prioritisation within the sibling policy, so you’re not under any, sort of, pressure to make a change. Page 410 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined So, following on from that then, if you’ve got a sibling-, is the sibling policy going to apply to the new school as well, whereby if you’ve got one sibling at this school, for example, this one-, Yes. They would get the first priority-, For the new school in 2027? Yes. Sorry, if you were? So, if there was a child at the school here-, Yes, but were in the other catchment? Yes. You could choose to move. Both? Yes. Yes, so effectively it’s new households bringing children to school that would be affected by the catchment. If your children are already at the school, their siblings would get the chance to go to the same school. But how would that affect-, That’s probably better for Gerry and Janie because they can answer them a lot better for you but yes, as Louisa said, we-, It’s okay, we know how the catchment policy works and the sibling policy works. Are your children currently here? Dougie’s is, mine is not, mine is two and a half. Looking at the plans tonight, we are splitting the border between both catchment areas, I mean, right on the line, so would it be one or the other? I think following on from Dougie’s question then would be, if we proposed going to the new school over this one because there have been a lot of concerns and voices raised about the design of this school, the open plan etc. If this one was better for our child’s needs, would the sibling policy then mean that if Dougie moved his child to the other school, the new school, would that then mean that there’s one less space for our child to go to that school, so therefore they would go into a ballot as well? Because my daughter wouldn’t have a sibling, therefore would that space be missing because Dougie’s then taken that space up? No offence to you, mate. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. Yes, if that got to-, M9: Louisa Mahon: M9: Dougie: M9: Louisa Mahon: M9: Louisa Mahon: M9: Louisa Mahon: M9: Louisa Mahon: Alasdair Morrison: M9: Kevin: Louisa Mahon: M9: Louisa Mahon: Gerry Hannah: Alasdair Morrison: There’s Janie, who might be able to answer in terms of-, might be the best bet. Page 411 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined M9: If we’re off topic, apologies, but-, Louisa Mahon: No, not at all, it’s a catchment question, a specific one. So, I’ll let you explain. M9: Right okay, so if you’ve got one-, F4: I know, that’s a very specific question, I think we should be talking more generalised but if we go in, can I ask a general question? So, if we’ve got somebody who wants to have two children at the school, at this school but they wanted (talking over each other) would be gone, so my child, who’s then going to school-, she’s two and a half just now, so she’ll probably be going (talking over each other) Yes, so I appreciate that, but one question, please. Because I’m looking at the scores and they’re all very close, what made that (talking over each other) the decision (talking over each other) Try and do that, it’s just because the recording won’t pick us up if-, Various voices talking over each other So, this lady over here was asking a question, do you want to ask it again just for the purposes of the tape? Yes, so I was just asking you to, sort of, talk us through, there are a lot of scores that are very close here, what was it that made the site that you’ve decided on for the proposal-, why did you go with that one? Okay, so the 23 sites that were under consideration are all set out there in the matrix and hopefully the scoring is relatively self-explanatory in terms of why scores were attributed to the individual sites. Then all that’s happened is they’ve just been put forward and populated the matrix on that basis. So, the criteria are along the lines of ownership of the site, its current development land status, how close it is to the households that will form that catchment, any additional costs that would be involved, in terms of, if you had to build new roads to it for instance, that’s obviously a significant factor. So, it’s been extrapolated through, and as you pointed out, a number of the sites score quite closely, they do. There was no public consultation on that scoring, is that correct? This is the public consultation on the-, The decisions have been made, I can’t change the score, is what I’m asking. You can comment on the consultation that’s in front of us tonight, sir, so you can comment on everything that’s contained within the consultation documents. M9: Gerry Hannah: Liz: Alasdair Morrison: Alasdair Morrison: Liz: Alasdair Morrison: David: Alasdair Morrison: David: Alasdair Morrison: F4: We weren’t asked our opinions prior to this, which is frustrating me because it’s already been commented that if we propose a different solution, that almost puts everything back to square one. Which in my opinion means that’s presented as if that puts 2027 at risk, so if we did propose a different solution, does that put the 2027 deadline at risk? How long does it take you Page 412 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined Alasdair Morrison: Liz: F4: Kevin: Liz: F4: Liz: ?: Alasdair Morrison: Kevin: David: F4: David: to get to this point, and if we proposed a different solution, how quickly could we get to the next consultation for that new solution? Okay-, Sorry to butt in but Gerry Lyons has already confirmed to me that it absolutely would change the timeline and it wouldn’t come in, in 2027. So, why were we not consulted? It’s very, very difficult to get 2027 (talking over each other) If you throw that out, you have to accept that comes with bussing all the children out to different schools. So, it’s almost like we’re being held to ransom. It’s really not a proposal, like, it’s not really an option. This date is not going to happen-, If we just go with one at a time. The date is very, very optimistic in my opinion as it is. I’ve already raised most of these, kind of, concerns with you, Alasdair , in terms of, I think we should have gone to, almost, a pre-consultation to try to get the right site, and not further delay unnecessarily. Which I think is what you’re pretty much saying there, is if we had more input as a community, it might not have been the site that we chose, and we may have a better chance of being closer to 2027 than what we are just-, Just because this is going to be on public record, I just want to make the point that I think this is the wrong location for the following reasons. It’s far too close to the existing primary, about 400 metres, it’s on the same road as the existing primary and there is already traffic chaos at the existing primary. That location has been chosen because it’s a negotiation that happened with BAE and it is fait accompli that is going to be the location. We are not being consulted, it is going to be that location. Totally agree. It’s not the right location, because this has been relevant to this discussion, because of the traffic management situation. We’re going to have a whole bunch of people coming in one direction from the north of Dargavel to drop their kids at the proposed new school and then heading towards the motorway. Then pupils coming to this school in the opposite direction trying to do a U-turn. Now, the solution to that in the Council’s eyes is to create an active travel policy, which is great and one that I support, but parents and grandparents just don’t follow it. When it rains people get in their car and they drive to school, and they drop off and pick up their kids. It doesn’t work because of Renfrewshire Council’s policy of primary one and two children needing to eyeball a parent or guardian to let their child be released. So, you need to park next to the school to pick up your child, so you get a whole bunch of parking issues, like you do here and historically you have at Bishopton Primary. Page 413 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined I know we spoke about this before, your solution was, ‘Well, we can double yellow line it, maybe, if it doesn’t work, we can double yellow line it (Timecode: 00:10:00).’ It just pushes the cars further out but your honest appraisal to me was, last week, ‘If it’s bad, we’ll see if we can come up with a solution.’ So, that’s not good enough because this community has been let down by Renfrewshire Council in so many ways and there’s a long list. I get the pressures to provide schooling for 2027 but you can’t make the wrong decision-, F4: Again. David: For the long term just to fix a short term problem. Building a school for 1,100 to 1,400 pupils within 400 metres of each other is not a good solution, so it needs to think again. Forgive me, can I ask, what is the question you’re asking us here tonight though? I know you’ve got comments and I think these comments are all valid and (talking over each other) the consultation but-, I’m putting on record and I hope it’s being recorded, that this is the wrong-, I’m not asking a question, this is a consultation where I’m putting my public opinion on record, and I encourage more people to do that. Yes. Sure. It’s not the right location and the traffic management plan hasn’t been thought through, and it needs to be thought through before it moves forward with an actual solution. Okay, so, thank you, if you don’t-, (talking over each other) preferred. I’m just looking at these sites up in the north part of the village and I don’t understand why we’ve got, ‘We’re having two schools and we’re splitting catchment areas when we’ve got a very sizeable housing development. Why are we not having a school on the opposite end? Because this school is in the south, so why are we not having-, Money. Can I ask Alistair that question then? Very similar, so when we met before Christmas, Alistair, you had mentioned that part of the initial considerations that you were tasked to go away with was, making a central location where everybody can do active travel within the middle of the development, that was the primary consideration at that point. Having a site more remote was not optimal, is pretty much what came out of that. It was to be in the centre of the village which made it more easily accessible. Alasdair Morrison: David: F4: Alasdair Morrison: David: Alasdair Morrison: F4: Liz: ?: Kevin: Alasdair Morrison: The more central it is to the catchment, Kevin, almost certainly the more propensity there will be for people to walk or use active travel to get to that location, almost certainly. Page 414 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined F4: But you can see from the current location that active travel is not the solution and I don’t think we should be relying on that or heavily focused on that as a reason for the location. Because in practical terms, it’s not real life and if you just speak to the families that have to get to work, you’ve got younger children, you’ve got parents helping with pick-up and drop-off, that’s not really life. So, I don’t think we should be anchoring too much on that because-, Various voices talking over each other. Sorry, just, there’s a-, in terms of the (talking over each other) Alasdair Morrison: Gerry Hannah: I’ll bring in the lady in the green in a wee minute, if that’s alright, there are just a couple of points being raised just now that are probably worthwhile clarifying. Nobody has said active travel is the only solution here, so just to get that correct here. Nobody has said that that’s going to be the magic bullet that solves any problems in relation to traffic management. We all have lived lives where you drop kids at school on your way to work, so nobody’s sitting here thinking it’s all going to be done through active travel, that would be silly of us to think so. What we want to try and do is promote active travel as much as we possibly can, you can see how well it operates in the school here. This school has the highest uptake of kids that walk, wheel and cycle to school in any school across Renfrewshire, so we’re building on something that’s already very successful here and the kids have embraced that greatly. So, fair play to them and the parents. Kevin: Which is great (talking over each other) issues outside. Gerry Hannah: Absolutely. F5: Double the size of the issues. Gerry Hannah: What we want to do is, we want to build on that, so just to address that point. There are a range of options, not just looking purely active travel, what we’ve done to this point is we’ve commissioned a transport consultant to work with us, in terms of identifying potential opportunities. Transport assessments, full detailed transport assessments only come into play when there’s a planning application process ready to proceed, right, we’re not at that stage yet, obviously this is part of the consultation process. But to do some early work, that’s why we’ve got the transport consultant on board, to give us some ideas in terms of what potential options there may be, not just exclusively active travel, just to-, F4: That makes me really nervous, that it’s not a point to talk about that. Gerry Hannah: I’m really sorry, sorry, excuse me, but the lady in the green-, F4: Can I just make one more comment? Gerry Hannah: No. F4: Because it’s been such a fight to even get something simple like a lollipop lady to support us. Liz: (talking over each other) transport consultant. Page 415 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined F4: So, it makes me so nervous that-, Gerry Hannah: I appreciate the points you’re making. Liz: We got told repeatedly that the road wasn’t busy enough for a lollipop person, so that’s the travel consultants, we don’t have faith in that. Gerry Hannah: Aye, I listen, I’m sorry but-, aye, I’m sorry, I appreciate the points you’re making but this lady has been waiting patiently here. F7: When we were here the last time, we know the site was chosen because the Council owned the land, which was good. Then we raised the thought of the issue with the SuDS and we said, ‘What if BAE owned the SuDS and the Council owned the primary school, what happens with the, kind of, not no- man’s land but if child were to chuck a bag or, what safety concerns were going to be put in place?’ We’re wondering since we chatted last time, have you guys been able to have a conversation about that or have you had a solution to it? Gerry Hannah: Yes, we’ve actually met with BAE last week on a number of different issues and it is regular engagement we have with them. One of the issues we did bring up was the feedback from parents and others around the concerns around that specific point you make. That’s something that we’ll be working with them together on, and looking at enhancing safety measures around, the water courses, to make sure that the kids are safe when they’re in the vicinity. I don’t want overly dramatize things here but just so people are aware, any, kind of, other water courses we have, we look at potential life- saving equipment, all of that, water safety equipment but also supported by education in the schools and things like that as well, just make kids aware of what dangers exist and how they behave in a way around it. No, I’m pretty sure that’s a bit unrealistic. That doesn’t always work, so that’s a continual ongoing process but we have made contact with BAE and met with them about that. Okay. F7: Gerry Hannah: F7: Alasdair Morrison: Can I just add to that point, just while Gerry’s made it? So, you’ll all be aware of the area that’s known as Central Park, it sits in between so it might be seen a no-man’s land but there is a significant investment to go in there in the next twelve to eighteen months. So, there will be an awful lot more connectivity in terms of footpaths, it will be an awful lot easier to go from the east side, so the, sort of, far side, if you like, of the village centre, and come to this side of the school by coming through the central area of Dargavel. F7: Just on that point, so in the twelve to eighteen months is there somewhere I could find that document to read it? Like, so that the plans that you’re talking about-, Alasdair Morrison: Oh yes, yes, they’re all published, they’re all on the Council’s website, so we could direct you towards that. Page 416 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined F7: Louisa Mahon: F7: Kevin: David: The Council’s website, I’ll find it there. (talking over each other) you’re talking about is particularly the focus of the discussion with BAE and it’s ongoing with further recommendations to come back, so that-, Okay, ongoing. Yes, Central Park was meant to be completed by this point in the development but BAE continue to push that back because they say it’s not financially viable unless they get more houses, and get more development, and more parcels sold. Going back to your point you mentioned about the Council owned that part of the land which the school’s proposed on, the Council negotiated on that part of land, but they had options to negotiate for any other parcel of land-, And they don’t own that. And they don’t own the land per se, if a school is not built on that parcel of land it transfers back to BAE. So, the land is only available to the Council to build a school on, it doesn’t-, the Council wouldn’t be able then to build houses etc, it would be a school-, We had this conversation at the information evening, I think it was last week. The Council owns the site. The Council owns the option but it’s only to build the school, you don’t-, No, the Council doesn’t have an option, the Council owns the site, it doesn’t have an option on the site, let’s be-, So, if the Council-, Let’s all go then, if the Council own the site, let’s just go because the decision’s made, there’s no consultation, make your mind up. So, is this a consultation or is it fait accompli? It is a consultation but the Council own that site. The Council own the site but if a school is not built on that site, what happens to that site, Alasdair ? Well, if that was to happen then the site would revert to BAE. The site reverts to BAE. So, if a school is not built on that site, it reverts to BAE. So, you don’t want (talking over each other) So, technically the Council only own that site if we continue to build a school there. Which is the current proposal. Which is the current proposal. Kevin: Alasdair Morrison: Kevin: Alasdair Morrison: Kevin: David: Alasdair Morrison: Kevin: Alasdair Morrison: Kevin: F4: Kevin: Alasdair Morrison: Kevin: Alasdair Morrison: Yes. Page 417 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined Kevin: Liz: Alasdair Morrison: Liz: David: Liz: David: Liz: Alasdair Morrison: Kevin: Alasdair Morrison: Liz: Alasdair Morrison: Okay, now, in terms of the scoring, Liz asked a very, very fair question earlier on, that every other-, there are a lot of other sites that are very, very close-, I’m looking at number 22, for instance, and I just think that that would be a much better solution to-, Which one is 22? (talking over each other) Yes, that one up there. The north part-, It’s off Slateford Road, it creates equidistance between the three primary schools. So, that to me, would be an ideal site. I second that, for the record, much better. So, firstly, did you buy this site before you decided and before this public consultation started? In which case, again, what’s the point of the consultation? Secondly, why did you discount 22? Okay, can I take-, sorry, can I-, (talking over each other) site scoring, sorry Alasdair , but it feeds into that as well. So, you’ve scored site E1 as one point higher than ten of the other ones, but if we’d done the site scoring matrix before entering negotiations for site E1, then they would all have been equal, so why have we chosen E1 above the likes of 22, for instance? There’s a lot in there in terms of coming back to scoring. So, your first point in terms of the purchase of the site, so the feeling within Renfrewshire Council was that in order to be able to offer the certainty of being able to deliver a school by the timescale that is necessary as you heard from Gerry, in terms of summer ’27, we felt we needed to own the site. So that when we came and did a proposed consultation, as we’re doing in this current exercise, we’d be able to say (Timecode: 00:20:00) with certainty that we can deliver a school if the proposed consultation backs that site. So, that’s why we went in to bat with BAE to negotiate to purchase the site, which we’ve done. There were a lot of things that came in on the back of that, there have been comments thrown around in terms of the relative cost of that, I can explain all that if we’ve got time tonight, or send it to you at a later date. But there was an awful lot of negotiation that went in from BAE in terms of what they got back in return to allow the Council to own that site, and it certainly wasn’t for nothing but I can quantify all that for you in terms of exactly how much BAE got back in return. Did they want more for 22? I mean, this question comes up but BAE don’t currently own site 22 or at least not all of it. They have an option on a tiny part of it, related to the demands-, I know Kevin feels differently but if you let me come back, Kevin, in terms of-, so, 22, the major difficulty with 22, aside from the fact that a lot of people that are in the catchment-, so if you imagine the catchment was drawn, again, like that, you might say it might be drawn differently but let’s Page 418 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined assume for the purposes of the consultation it’s drawn roughly what I call south west to north east, through the middle of Dargavel. Then the people at the bottom end are obviously going to have an awful lot more distance to walk, if you’re wanting to promote active travel. But the main reason against 22 is its deliverability, it’s in the green belt and therefore-, for a site that’s in the green belt there’s a fairly elongated, protracted process that needs to be gone through in order to get planning consent, and the final decision does not lie with Renfrewshire Council, it lies with Scottish Ministers. So, we felt that was introducing a huge amount of uncertainty that would elongate the timescale and give us an idea of not really knowing when we’d be able to deliver a school. So, these are the main reasons why we didn’t go with 22. David: You are right on that, to be fair, I absolutely agree it would elongate the timescales because it is green belt area, but this is a generational decision, the school’s going to be here for 60 years. It’s not actually about 2027, there’s a pressing need because of the incompetence of your organisation to get us to this point but you have to look at the long term, and having two schools so close to each other with all the traffic chaos that that’s going to cause, is not the best thing to create a good place to work, to live. You wouldn’t have the same catchment area, you would change the catchment area, the catchment area here’s been drawn, like, with a line, like Stalin when he drew the railway through Russia. It’s a line through the village which is the best you’ve got to do with this proposal but you would change the catchment, so that the north end of the village went to 22 and the south side of the village, which a lot of it is still to be built on, would come to this school, which is actually significantly smaller. Gerry Hannah: So, see if I can just-, Louisa Mahon: (talking over each other) Gerry Hannah: Sorry Louisa, can I just come in? We’ve only got ten minutes or so left in here and I suppose-, F4: Site 21, what was the problem with site 21? Louise Mahon: No, there was something quite important just to add in to the conversation, in the early days when we had the public meetings, two things were raised as being really important, and that was getting a school as quickly as possible, so that children weren’t displaced further than need be. And also, to have a school that was still broadly in the heart of the community, so they’re some of the principles that have been followed when we’ve been looking at this as well. David: That principle’s great but we’ve not got a blank canvas, we’re in a mess. Like, so if you’re building this amazing place then you want a big school in the heart. Let’s not forget BAE should have been building this whole thing, this should have been one big school in one location, fit for purpose, but it’s not and we are where we are. So, I think we can discount the, ‘Let’s do it all nice and fluffy,’ because we’re in a mess. Page 419 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined F8: I would like to say I disagree, I don’t actually think Dargavel should have one great big primary school. Kevin: I don’t either. F8: I think that would be a big mistake, so I do think two schools is actually right, and I think site 22 is quite hilly and quite wet, there’s a stream and things that run through it. I’m not sure site 22 would be the ideal building place. David: There’s a stream right outside this school, you know, it’s not-, F8: But you’re right, it should have been decided-, the planning department has let Dargavel down badly. David: But you’re right about the size, I didn’t want a gigantic school but they messed up on the numbers. F8: Yes. David: If they’d got the numbers right, they would have built a gigantic school and BAE would have paid for it, so that’s what would have happened, and we as taxpayers wouldn’t be forking out £45 million. We’re in a mess, that’s the point I’m making. Kevin: There are a couple of bits there as well, so in the original plans back in 2001, 2002, there were meant to be three primary schools and a secondary school. That’s all been cut down at various points through section 75s, despite additional housing. So, my conversation with Jenny Gilruth, the Cabinet Secretary, last summer, her ideal number for a primary school is nowhere close to 800, she believes that to be closer to 450. An 800 primary school is huge, it’s far too big. So, if we’re looking at an 800 primary school, should we really be looking at one primary school or two primary schools? It’s across the board but we’re in this mess, and yes, I take Louisa’s point, one of the big things was, ‘We need a school and we need it quickly,’ and that’s correct. But whatever decisions are taken affect not just you and I, it affects everybody for 50, 60 years now. That is a huge consideration, so as David quite rightly said earlier on, yes, it might be that we need a little tiny bit more short term pain to make sure we get this decision right, because we live with it, our kids live with it, our grandkids live with it. We’re going to have to have this for years, and years, and years, and still be paying for it, so we need to get it right. F8: I think the reality is though, that the planning department along with BAE-, let BAE away with a whole lot of errors, and the realistic position is you are not going to get the best solution anymore, you are just going to get the best you can do in the situation, which is different to getting the best thing. Kevin: Absolutely, 100% and I completely get that. F8: And we’re where we are now. David: But this is a 45 million decision of our taxpayers’ money, our money, so it does, kind of, matter that we get it right. Kevin: Absolutely, so is E1 then-, Page 420 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined Gerry Hannah: Alasdair Morrison: F4: Gerry Hannah: F4: Gerry Hannah: F4: Gerry Hannah: F4: ?: Gerry Hannah: Sorry, if I can cut across, Kevin, sorry, we’ve only got a finite time. Again, sorry, just to bring it back, the principle this evening was for us to answer questions that will allow you as a community to answer and respond to the consultation. So, I don’t want anybody to leave here thinking they’ve not been able to ask a question they wanted to ask in relation to the subjects that myself and Alasdair are here to cover with you. Without being able to ask a question. So, how could you reassure us then? So, those two plots being so close together, you as experts reassure me, why is that okay for those two plots to be so close together? Do you want me to answer from a, kind of, roads perspective? Everything perspective. So, to cover it from a, kind of, roads perspective, going back to the work that we’ve done to date so far. So, when it became clear there was going to be a consultation identifying a proposed site-, as I understand, I’m not an education person, but I understand the Education Act says you have to go forward with a specific site as part of a consultation. So, that became clear, obviously there was going to be a proposed site. Once that proposed site that was going to be part of the consultation became clear, we engaged a transport consultant to look at both the proposed site, but also how that would then interact with the existing school site and the wider development, including future development that’s still yet to come online, with the development here. They’ve identified a number of opportunities for us to work through over the coming weeks, months and years in terms of making the school as accessible as possible. That looks at just simple things like the location we’ve got here just now, we know-, I’m looking for something specific though, I get the political fluff and we don’t have a lot of time-, Sorry, I’m not a politician, that’s not my role. It sounds fluffy, I genuinely want the facts. So, you head up roads for Renfrewshire Council, so you’re involved in planning everything, emergencies, road closures, you name it. Reassure me why it’s okay for that number of pupils, therefore that number of parents, to be on those-, so close together at that time. On the one road. Where I was coming to was, you’ve got the location here, existing. So, we’ve identified, working with Kevin and the school in terms of parent behaviours, largely, in terms of parking behaviours before school time, whether that’s-, I think we agree, particularly at pick-up time in the afternoon we have a peak problem, in the morning it’s spread out because of breakfast clubs etc, it’s a much wider peak but in the afternoon it’s a much more narrow peak. So, looking at potential behaviour changes, and there are two ways you do behaviour changes. You either do it through education and supporting the Page 421 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined school through it or you look at what restrictions you put in place. The other thing is then looking at-, F4: I’m interested in the number, so not restrictions, the number. Gerry Hannah: So, if you let me finish, the other thing we then look at is, what is there in the way of pick-up and drop-off facilities for the school, and is that sufficient for the numbers that are coming here just now? I think there would be a consensus that that is an area that we have to look at and it’s something that we’re looking at just now in terms of the available land use that we have here, and how we can address pick-up and drop-off. F4: That’s not an answer. Dougie: On that point, no, I think Arrochar Drive’s not a great route at the moment, you’ve got cars parked up one side, all the cars trying come down, trying to go up. I think what the point is as well, if you’ve got another school on that same road, and that’s the accessible road to get to the motorway, what’s the alternative, for example, for the parents that do need to drive, do need to drop-, parents and grandparents, guardians, that do have to drive outside of the village? So, if that is the one road, what is the plan in terms of how you get from the new school to the motorway, for example (Timecode: 00:30:00)? F4: And what number of cars do you predict will be using that road? David: But then this is the fact that the plan is going, ‘It’s a mess, we’ll see if we can come up with a solution.’ That’s the plan, there is no plan because they’re going to have massive clashes. F4: And we’ve been part of lots of meetings, we’re not getting answers. Gerry Hannah: If I can answer this gentleman’s question, if that’s alright? F4: But can you answer my question first? With all due respect I don’t feel I got an answer. Gerry Hannah: So, yes, we’ve got the link road from here to here that isn’t built yet, and that’s the road that BAE have started the process of building just now. So, if you can imagine, I’ll draw this more crudely, but the catchment area along here somewhere. So, what you’ve got to look at then, in terms of the future development of the school, is how the traffic’s obviously going to interact there. Is it all going to be interactions coming down this way, up this way? Which, obviously, that’s one of the points that was quite rightly raised. A number of options to look at in terms of how that interacts, you have the potential for parking exclusion zones which have operated very successfully around a number of schools in Glasgow, we’ve trialled it here in Renfrewshire around a number of schools as well. That is largely self-policing but also is enforced as well, by the police. That would say that cars outwith people who live in that particular zone do not enter that zone between the hours of say, 8:30am and 9:15, 2:30pm and 3:15. That is just one option, another option potentially could be, do you look at some form of one way system to keep the traffic interactions from coming Page 422 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined against one another? What we asked the transport consultant to come up with was a number of options, not just one solution that’s going to be, as I said, the magic bullet that’s going to solve all the problems. F4: So, at this point in the consultation we don’t-, and that’s really frustrating to me, that you don’t have that answer to present to us right now, and to me that’s quite huge. You’re talking about exclusion, so putting up signs, ‘Don’t Park Here,’ that’s not what I’m asking you, I’m asking for the 1,100 families that have to drop-off at school then get to work. Have you guys proposed or looked at what percentage of those are typically, like my family, three minutes away, kids can walk to school without crossing a road, great? Have you looked at the families that are not in my position and that need a car? How many are you expecting to be using a car to go through that area and how do you fit them in? I’m not asking for how do you exclude them because that’s not the answer, that’s not what we want as a community. I don’t want to be excluded from being able to drop my child off at school and get to work on time. I’m asking you, if I have to take my car, where do I drop my kid off and what traffic am I going to deal with? Can I try and answer your question that you are making-, I’d love it, I’d love an answer. In a slightly different way. What you’ve got with Dargavel is approximately 4,300 houses planned. You’ve only got the road network that has been proposed by BAE and accepted by the Council. You haven’t got any other road network and you’ve got the housing sites where they are, regardless of where you put the schools. So, the other alternatives that people have suggested in terms of, you know, you could put a school up in this area, you’ve still only got that road network. So, the challenge that you’re suggesting there is going to be faced in Dargavel regardless of where you put the school. I did say, if your schools are not that close together-, Various voices talking over each other. Hold on, sorry-, The (talking over each other) would be, everybody from this area would be going to this school, sorry, if you moved it from here. Everybody from here would be going up, drop their kids at school and join the motorway. Everybody from here would go to this school and go and join the motorway. And you’re telling me, sorry, in terms of that that would make-, in terms of using exactly the same roads that there would be no-, Various voices talking over each other. You’re farming them off in different directions. Alasdair Morrison: F4: Alasdair Morrison: F4: Alasdair Morrison: Dougie: Alasdair Morrison: F4: Alasdair Morrison: There would be no congestion going towards Slateford Road and no congestion coming towards here just because you put them at the other ends? Page 423 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined Kevin: If you’ve got the site there, the left hand side of Slateford Road, 22, you’ve then got the traffic going up Slateford Road, which makes it more advantageous for them to either go along through Bishopton onto the motorway or go down towards Langbank. Alasdair Morrison: Sorry, with respect, Kevin, that assumes that that traffic wants to go to the motorway. Kevin: But that’s what I’m saying, that’s where 99% of people are going, on the motorway to go to Glasgow. Gerry Hannah: Sorry, this gentleman’s not asked a question yet. M8: A school in the middle of a large housing estate, 4,000 houses, and you’re putting a school right in the middle, and you’ve only got these few roads, two roads in to the estate. It’s just going to cause, you know-, Liz: You’re drawing everybody in, instead of spreading them out. It makes no sense at all. You’re just creating a bottleneck right in the middle instead of spreading it out. I don’t (talking over each other) F4: (talking over each other) this is bonkers. Liz: Any possibility you don’t understand that there’s a difference between half of the village going north and half of the village going south. Two lines of traffic going this way, it’s completely different to everybody meeting in the middle and once you go up to the north you have so many more options, yes to go to the motorway. If you want to go back all the way round then fine but most people would choose to go a different way. F4: And restrictions are not the answer because my daughter used to go to Newmains Primary. So, fine, you can’t park here, you can’t park there, so what do parents have to do? Oh, we park there instead and the traffic’s all still in the same areas. The schools are too close together, that to me is quite frightening that that’s the solution you guys are proposing. Kevin: You mentioned as well the enforceable aspect, Gerry, that’s only enforceable if we’ve got people to enforce it. We’re limited to the wardens that you’ve got available to you, there’s not going to be any more money for that, we know that, with budgetary pressures. F4: But it’s not about enforcing it, people need a solution. Kevin: That’s what I’m saying but the police do not have any more numbers either, they’re getting squeezed across the board. So, having an enforceable aspect of an exclusion zone isn’t going to be the answer because more and more-, F4: It’s wrong. M8: The other thing, I was reading in the magazine today, the IBE, that there are another 309 homes being built by Persimmon, I’m not sure where they’re going to be. Alasdair Morrison: They’re in this quadrant up here. Page 424 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined M8: In that corner? Yes, so again, there are issues in Craigton Road to get in and out, so you’ve got the people coming in to drop their children off at school, and all the other people travelling through going wherever they’re going to. You’re just making a, you know-, Alasdair Morrison: But the road system, again going back to that point, the road system that’s been developed for Dargavel and was in the original masterplan going way back to the years that Kevin was referring to there, assessed this in detail. This was done by BAE, which is all-, M8: Okay, you may not change the road but you don’t have to put the school there, that’s what I’m saying, if the school’s not there, you’re not going to have so much traffic. Gerry Hannah: Sorry, this lady here’s made a couple of points and I’ve not been able to catch them yet, sorry. F7: Although, that infrastructure and that road design, that was what was proposed at the time but that was before we decided to put two schools with, like, over 1,000 kids at it, so you’re changing-, you can’t just keep that same plan for something that is now different. That road structure is there, we can’t change it but we’re deciding what to put into it now, so you’re making the wrong decisions as to putting it in, you need to look actually at, ‘What do we have in this road structure and how can we best utilise this structure that we have?’ Rather than just fire it all in, in the middle, and clog the road structure. Liz: Sure, firing it in. David: And on that point, the road structure as well isn’t fit for purpose as it is just now. All it takes is one car to be parked on Craigton Road and if you’ve got traffic going both ways, for example, it’s tailed all the way back. Liz: Think of emergency services as well, if you’ve got a fire, if you’ve got an emergency, if you’ve got an ambulance needing to come through there. David: Which is frightening right now, if there was a fire at this school and a fire engine had to get here at 8:45am, there would be trouble. M8: They’ve got ramps that slow things down, you’ve got everyone parking their cars on both sides of the road. So, just, you know, a problem area. Gerry Hannah: See, just in terms of the, kind of, road infrastructure, the road infrastructure outside the school is very typical to the road infrastructure outside any school. David: It doesn’t need to be there. It’s the same as the Edinburgh bypass, right, you must have known with the Edinburgh bypass it was a mistake to do it at that point, it doesn’t mean you just go along with it. Gerry Hannah: Sorry, just to pick up on that point, it is right and it’s right that it’s narrowed, the road lanes are specifically narrowed outside a school, so that it discourages people from driving faster because the space is less. Page 425 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined F4: And that’s why, to my point about parking provision. So, that’s why to my point, going back to it, I know I keep bleating on about it but whatever the new proposal is, you have to give reasonable, appropriate space for car drop-off points to stop-, Gerry Hannah: I think that’s the point I made earlier about pick-up and drop-off zone. David: (talking over each other) the drop-off zone because you’ve got 128 P1s, for example, and P2s, that you can’t just use a drop-off zone as well, you-, Liz: I think it was supposed to be a drop-off zone here that never worked, like, that was the whole plan for here. Yes, that’s because you have to eyeball your children. To be fair, you are right, I’ve read the Scottish Governments guide on roads and your narrow, tight turns slows down, speed bumps, it’s all-, you’re absolutely right about how it’s designed. But in the design, there wasn’t an 800 pupil school there. So, if only we had the Head of Renfrewshire Council planning here who might think, ‘I’m in charge of roads, we need to do things differently here!’ You’ve just signed off on, I think it’s close to 700 houses, up in that top left corner, Persimmon and Taylor Wimpey’s to come, isn’t it? 509. With Taylor Wimpey, and Charles Church, and Persimmon, is it not closer to 700? No, it’s 509. 500, let’s go with that, so you’ve just signed off on that, there’s not a dot of green space within it, it’s just houses packed in. You guys are in charge of this, you can control the situation, you have to sign it off. I mean, there is green space within the-, Where? Within the planning applications for here. There’s, like, a pinprick sized green space, come on. And the fact as well, the original road network and infrastructure here was put in place based on the 2,300 odd houses that were initially planned. 2,500 but-, 2,500 but we’re now 2,000 over that, but still utilising the same road infrastructure that was planned for-, David: Alasdair Morrison: David: Alasdair Morrison: David: Alasdair Morrison: David: Alasdair Morrison: David: Kevin: Alasdair Morrison: Kevin: Alasdair Morrison: But Kevin, sorry, again, without-, I do need to come back to you in terms of the other point but the point here, was that all this land here was all allocated for employment use back in the original masterplan for Dargavel. The land that’s now been accepted by the Council (Timecode: 00:40:00) to change to housing, that was the 2018 decision. Page 426 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined F4: Alasdair Morrison: F4: Alasdair Morrison: David: ?: Liz: David: ?: David: Gerry Hannah: David: Gerry Hannah: Dougie: And you accepted it without changing the infrastructure, so again, it all falls down to you guys as a body-, Only because we’re short of time, but that’s because the assessment showed that there is plenty capacity in the road infrastructure and the road junctions to deal with level of development. If it wasn’t-, But not a second primary school. Well, the second primary school, as you know, is a new issue that’s emerged which we’re now dealing with in this consultation. But there’s very little that we can do to actually change the infrastructure that’s already in for Dargavel. Alasdair , that’s the holistic view that just doesn’t exist in Dargavel though, you approve houses, for example, we’re talking about the school situation just now. You can go wider than just the school in terms of, you keep giving land away for houses but you’re not thinking about health centres, you’re not thinking about parks. It’s all the wider things. There are no leisure facilities, nothing. Yes, there’s literally nothing for all these millions of children to do around here. What are they all going to do when they’re teenagers? It is literally a crime zone waiting to happen. It’s already a crime zone. Various voices talking over each other (talking over each other) the official consultation on these places. I’m sorry, again, just to be boring and bring us back to time, we’re probably just getting to that point of having to switch room. Are there maybe any last points to be raised before we do that? See, can I make just one last point? Because it’s going to happen and you guys know that, whether you pretend or not. Please stick a roundabout here so that when people are going through they can turn round without having to do U-turns. I come from East Kilbride, I love a roundabout (Laughter), I’ll be trying to get as many roundabouts as I possibly can. See, in terms of the acre requirement, is that because we are factoring in that community element to it? So, we’re talking about the sports facilities etc, I do drop-offs at Saturday mornings to Park Mains and the football pitches are busy with kids, and the noise is there, it’s vibrant. There’s nothing like that in Bishopton, we talk about carbon neutral as a country that we’re heading towards but if you want to do anything in Bishopton you’ve got to get in your car and you’ve got to drive somewhere. So, the location, if we’re going with that location, is it because it’s a prominent centre of the village, it’s going to be the hub, you’re going to have sports facilities-, Page 427 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined Gerry Hannah: It’s easily accessible for people, they don’t need to take their car to do drop- off on a Saturday morning, it’s right next to them, yes. Louisa Mahon: They’ll talk about that next door, actually, in terms of the fact it’s community use outwith school hours, so what that site will provide for community facilities that should have been part of this one as well. Kevin: What that’ll provide is, at the moment, one artificial pitch, is that correct, Louisa, still? Louisa Mahon: (talking over each other) go through the detail (talking over each other) and it’s maybe worthwhile, I don’t know if you were at the information session, just looking at what’s come out of the space planning through, sort of, community engagement process as well. Is Gerry-, are they-, ?: They’re just finishing up, so it’s not to rush you, they’re just finishing up answering questions. David: Just as a top tip, next time you’re designing a consultation and the decision is made after the elected members will consider the responses from the statutory consultation after the architect’s been appointed, after the detailed design, after the engineer’s been appointed, and after the main contractor’s been appointed. And then you’re telling us they’re going to consider maybe changing it, like, come on. F4: That’s been the issue all along, there’s been this complete lack of (talking over each other) David: That’s all there. F4: From the very outset. Louisa Mahon: The whole point was being in a position where, if the proposal was successful, we’re ready to go. If we’re not, we’re not. ?: Exactly, we were asked repeatedly to do that by the community. David: No, because I was on the Parent Council when this kicked off and I asked Steve Quinn, ‘Can you listen to the community before you make decisions?’ And the decision is made and this is all lip service, all of it is lip service. F4: It just feels like history repeating still. Liz: Yes, and that’s what’s so disappointing because we’ve been repeatedly reassured-, Kevin: And that’s what you’re going to get with Park Mains as well though, and that’s the big elephant in the room. Liz: But that’s not a public consultation, that’s just done. Kevin: Absolutely, that’s fait accompli. F4: (talking over each other) so, Park Mains isn’t being discussed at all tonight then? Liz: No, it’s not a public consultation. Page 428 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined F4: (talking over each other) David: I’d love to ask the person in charge of climate how seventeen double-decker buses from Bishopton and Langbank is acceptable to go to Park Mains rather than building a high school here. Gerry Hannah: If they’re all electric and hydrogen then that’s great. So-, Various voices talking over each other. Gerry Hannah: Just to mention a point there, and I think Gerry, for those that have come to one of the previous evenings but Gerry did give a commitment to come back at a later date and talk about the Park Mains issue, because I know that was something that was raised by a number of people. So, I don’t know what the format of that will be but I’m sure Gerry will be able to advise that. Kevin: (inaudible) this is why we’re doing it and we’re not going to change it because at the end of the day, it’s a done deal. Liz: I know, they don’t have to do a public consultation. Various voices talking over each other. Dougie: (talking over each other) Bishopton Primary as well, so with it being 2027 as it is just now, notwithstanding there could be delays, there is just that understanding of how that impacts the existing schools, so Bishopton being a top one in terms of, does it have the infrastructure to cope with the additional demand? Liz: So, Bishopton has been guaranteed that we will not move above 500 and-, Kevin: 512. Liz: Was it 512? Kevin: Gerry gave a summary at the last-, Liz: So, that’s not in the plans. David: I guarantee (talking over each other) Kevin: What is in play is a potential expansion here for additional pupils. Liz: It is a nightmare. Kevin: Whether that be more portacabins, whether that be utilising cupboard spaces that we’ve got here. Once we have the acoustics done during the summer then Gerry has already said that he is looking to reevaluate how many pupils could be accommodated within the current Dargavel Primary School, if it ultimately is-, David: Two years ago when this situation was identified, Steve Quinn sat in this school and said, ‘There are issues with acoustics, it’ll be sorted in six months.’ And it was supposed to happen in the October, it didn’t, it was supposed to happen last summer and it didn’t, you know that. And it’s allegedly going to happen this summer, two years on. So, when these guys, Page 429 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined and nothing personal against you, professional and great people, right, but when your organisations sit and tell us something-, Liz: We don’t believe that. David: We’ve got no belief in it because every single thing you’ve told us has fallen down, failed and been incompetent, and I’m sorry about that, and you guys are picking up the pieces. But I’ve got no sympathy for that because we can’t cut you credit for that because we’ve cut so much credit. Why are the acoustics not fixed in this school? It’s unacceptable. Alasdair Morrison: You’ll see when you go through next door, maybe he would answer that question for you. Dougie: On the point, though, around having the lack of trust, in the 2027 plan, Bishopton having a capacity issue, potentially looking at expanding this one, what happens though, if we continue to give houses? You continue to have children enrolling for P1 between now and whenever the school is built, and Bishopton and Dargavel exceed their size? It goes to ballot-, Kevin: Alasdair Morrison: Sorry, can I just answer your question about house numbers because it has come up a few times. So, the house numbers in here in terms of-, all have planning consent already, in terms of an outline. That was dictated by BAE and as we’ve discussed already-, David: Can you just be honest on that though? Because part of the quid pro quo for you getting that land for free, for the new school, was that you approved those 500 houses, because you had held them because you have got a statutory obligation to provide schooling and you can’t do that. So, a quid pro quo was, ‘We’ll give you the land for free but you have to sign off on 500 houses.’ If you had said, ‘No, it’s not acceptable for our kids to have that, we’re not doing it.’ My point being, the 500 houses are already baked in, if you like. They weren’t. Alasdair Morrison: David: Alasdair Morrison: They are because if you look back, the original outline planning consents that have been granted for Dargavel give permission to the whole quantum. What’s missing, what you’re talking about in terms of the 500 they’re having up here in what’s the, sort of, north west quadrant or the north west sector, was what’s called an application for matters specified in conditions. So, it’s a detailed planning permission that shows the layout you referred to and the number of houses. David: And there’s a statutory obligation before you rubber-stamp that to ensure there’s schooling in place. And the only way you can do schooling in place is to propose this as a school and that was the quid pro quo for BAE to give you the land for free. Alasdair Morrison: I mean, you’re slightly correct and slightly incorrect, if I may, so the actual requirement to do it is at the time when the planning application is granted, Page 430 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined which would have been at the time it was granted first and foremost, the outline planning permission for it. The Council didn’t do that because the Council believed that the school that was promoted at the time, the one primary school with 430 capacity, was sufficient. That’s the previous-, When was that? That was 2018. So, we knew at that point that it wasn’t sufficient? We did. No, no-, We did. We did but they (talking over each other) Various voices talking over each other. But the numbers have been thrown out, so at that point-, But we’ve touched on that in terms of looking back through the, you know, with hindsight, is that the Council recognises the decision then was incorrect. So, with hindsight, never mind and just plough on-, Yes, on top of that as well, we’ve maintained our statutory objection to detailed planning permission to any further house building because we know that we are (talking over each other) Various voices talking over each other Can I just remind everyone, I know we’ve recorded everything but can you fill in the online survey? Because that’s where you can put more detail etc, so, make sure you do that too. (talking over each other) for a final comment, I don’t feel we’ve been given anywhere near enough detail for this to be considered an official consultation. I don’t feel that we’ve had any detail from a roads and an infrastructure, and a planning point of view. But what you can do is, you can email and say, ‘Here are specific questions,’ and ask for more information. I’ll just get that answer, I’ll literally-, Gerry Hannah is the man who’s the Head of Roads and has been Head of Roads at Renfrewshire Council for a long, long, long time, so if he can’t give me that answer, what’s the point in me writing it down? I think he will be able to give you it, I think if you get him to get back to you. Liz: Alasdair Morrison: Liz: Alasdair Morrison: Liz: David: Liz: Alasdair Morrison: Liz: Kevin: Louisa Mahon: F4: Louisa Mahon: F4: Louisa Mahon: F4: I’ve just asked the question, I’ve literally asked the question and I didn’t get the answer, so-, Page 431 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined Louisa Mahon: I don’t think he actually got to be able to answer it, to be fair, there are a lot of people wanting different comments. I think Gerry will be able to give you a lot of the detail you’ve looked for (Timecode: 00:50:00). Liz: Could we not just do that though and then stipulate that? So, that’s a question that probably most people have and I think one of the biggest concerns about the site is about the traffic. So, can something be put together so that people who aren’t sure or people haven’t been able to get their answers for-, because it’s not a good forum, is it, really, for detailed answers. F4: (talking over each other) that was the perfect time for him to give us a straight answer and there was no straight answer, it’s a politician’s answer, it’s horrible. Gerry Lyons: Okay folks, can I just, kind of, change the direction of the conversation. You’ve obviously got some issues that you want to explore a bit more and we’ll get some time at the very end to allow you to do that, of course we will. And if you think you’ve not heard answers then we want to find out exactly what you’ve not heard and come back to you on that. So, as I said, I’m Gerry Lyons, I’m the Head of Education, I’m leading on the consultation and this part, this workshop, is very much about roll projections, about the education bit of it because I’ve got the planning guys here who talk about timelines and planning permission, I’m not qualified for anything, the timeline for the building and all that kind of stuff. I don’t know about that stuff but they’re here for that. I can answer as much as I can about the projections and about things associated with the decision making. So, is there a question you’d like to start with? Would you like me to start with something? Really, it’s your meeting, so it’s over to you to either make a start or to raise an issue. F8: At the consultation meetings a couple of weeks ago, you put up a design for a new school which was, in my opinion, and I don’t expect you to comment, but in my opinion was a far better design for a school than this current one. Is that design agreed? You know, will you change it to be more like this current school just because that would save money? What you were proposing at the other school was a more expensive but, in my opinion, a better educational establishment. Is that plan agreed or what? Gerry Lyons: Yes, so what was at the information sessions and what’s in the booklet that you’ve got are the space planning recommendations. Sorry, are we referring to these? These here and these are the illustrations. Frank Farrell: Gerry Lyons: Frank Farrell: They aren’t designs, they are indicative space planners, we don’t have a design yet. There is no architect-, But you put it up at the information thing as a potential design. F8: Frank Farrell: It is, essentially to show what space planners have envisaged. This is just their aspirations of what the spaces could look like. Page 432 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined It’s like a mood board. To give us a visual idea of what we could do. Liz: Frank Farrell: Gerry Lyons: Aye, one of the big issues which we’ve had come through the consultation has been the open plan nature of this school. One of the things we’ve done as part of the initial work on the new school is, the space planners have met with the Head Teacher of this school, with teachers from this school, and children from this school about the experience of being in this school. That’s been used to inform that. My view is that I don’t think a completely open plan arrangement is the right one, I think flexibility is what we want for our children’s learning. You and I had an interesting debate about walls or partitions when you were here before, which I really enjoyed. So, I think there are lessons to be learned from this, I’m going to feed those lessons in all the way down the line because I think we can deliver something which is more conducive to learning for all of the children, particularly for children with additional support needs, with a different kind of design. The indicative stuff from the team gives us a steer as to what that potentially might look like, architects and designers have to then do their bit, of course they do. But from my point of view, I’m taking a very strong view around what I think is important and that for me, is about flexibility rather than being tied into either completely closed or completely open. F8: Yes, and I would agree with that, and if you don’t get that design right, then through no fault of their own, children with additional support needs become very chaotic for everyone’s education. And that’s a shame because they then end up with a reputation that they don’t deserve because the building’s not-, and your idea of, it’s spaces, educational spaces, worries me. So, I don’t agree with educational spaces. Gerry Lyons: It’s just at this point, the definition of an educational space is open for debate. But one of the things that we’re really focused on is the inclusion aspect of all of this. We can’t afford to have children for whom the very building is an obstacle to their learning, we just can’t afford to have that. Various voices talking over each other. Gerry Lyons: Yes, I’m hearing that and we’re doing work just now to mitigate that. Emma Henry: Yes, so if I can come in on that. Gerry Lyons: Emma’s the Head of Inclusion. Emma Henry: Yes, so one of the things that we’ve worked really hard on over the last couple of years-, so my previous post, Head Teacher of St Catherine’s, Education Manager for ASN Inclusion and so, Head of Education with ASN Inclusion within my remit. So, over the last couple of years we’ve really looked at the, kind of, GIRFEC refresh and what that looks like within our establishments, and how we can use our spaces better for our children with additional support needs. Now, Dargavel, Bishopton and Park Mains were all part of that in terms of being early adopters, so they’ve actually supported what we currently have in terms of planning and our, kind of, vision for our estate has been led through the eyes of the practitioners. That’s the Page 433 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined practitioners here as well, so you can appreciate that we have to work with what we have, and what we’re looking at is the professional learning programme that sits behind that. So, we have things like, for example, the circle framework. What I can do is, we have parent ambassador groups for additional support needs, and also information sessions that go into much more detail about everything that I’m talking about. I know it’s just a, kind of, flavour of it but those sessions are there for you to attend and join, find out more about that and about how this space and other spaces can be used more effectively for children with additional support needs. F4: So, what about just the general issue with the noise in this school? Because that obviously affects all children, both of mine, so-, Yes, so we’re doing some work-, I’ll take that one. Yes, Frank will talk to you about the acoustic work that we’re doing. Gerry Lyons: Frank Farrell: Gerry Lyons: Frank Farrell: I know this has been issue since it opened two years ago, so there’s a building warrant in to carry out works this summer. We’re going to try and do advanced works, which aren’t warrantable works, that means we can do it without having a building warrant, the aspiration is to try and do some at Easter, some in May, so that in the summer we can concentrate on basically enclosing certain areas so that the acoustics are improved. We appointed a consultant to do this, as you know consultants who are involved in the design, structural consultant, so that is underway, that’s been designed. That’s got a building warrant in and we’re planning to carry works out this summer for the new term. David: Just, that’s been two years that pupils have suffered this, as part of the consultation for this school it was fed back that the community didn’t think that open planning would work. Are you the new Julie Calder? I hope that’s not offensive. Emma Henry: No, that’s him, I’m not, that’s Gerry. David: But you’re Steve Quinn, are you not? Emma Henry: No, no Janie. David: Who’s Steve Quinn? Emma Henry: Janie. David: Who? Kevin: Janie, at the back. Various voices talking over each other. David: Are you going to (talking over each other) I think the Director of Education should definitely not be on the periphery. Gerry Lyons: So, in terms of identities, the new Steven Quinn, the new Julie Calder (talking over each other) Page 434 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined David: Steve Quinn never missed an opportunity to be in the limelight so I don’t think you should either. So, he sat here with Julie Calder and said to us that-, Liz: ‘Your children won’t be damaged.’ David: ‘They won’t be affected by this, this is a cutting edge design. I’ve got loads of experience.’ See that conversation you just had about all of these working groups, we heard all of that, and how this works. Then it opened and then within five seconds flat the Head Teacher was saying, ‘This is chaos, you guys need to sort it.’ Steve Quinn sat here, the best part of two years ago, and said, ‘We’re going to sort it in six months,’ and two years on it’s not sorted. You’ve got kids in ear defenders and I know that you’re now saying, ‘Well, we’re going to fix it,’ great, I’ll believe it when I see it. But what confidence do I have that you’re going to listen to what we’re telling you now about this new school? Because we’re going to potentially end up being in the same position, we need a cast iron guarantee as part of this consultation that you will not build an open plan school. M9: Yes, on that note, I know families that have actually preferred to go to Bishopton Primary although they live in Dargavel purely for that reason. F4: My daughter prefers the portacabins, my primary six is loving life in a portacabin because she can hear her teacher, genuinely loving life in a portacabin. David: I do love that phrase, ‘Loving life in a portacabin.’ Kevin: We’ve lost Parent Council members because they’ve moved the children because the kids have got-, Liz: Yes, we did that, my husband’s very involved in the Parent Council and when Eli was coming into school in primary one, my daughter was going out to Park Mains, we made the decision that, a combination of the numbers, a combination of the acoustics, a combination of the traffic because I am one of those parents that needs to drop my kid off and then get to work-, it was a no-brainer for us and we moved over to Bishopton, and I’m not alone in that, there are lots of us. Kevin: Yes, so just coming back as well to what you’re saying there (Timecode: 01:00:00). So, we’re talking about, we know there are a large number in this school who have got the ASN, kind of, needs especially with the sound and the hearing issues. We’ve already looked at, as well, and said that 2027 is our pinch point and that’s when it becomes really, really tight. You’ve already mentioned as well, Gerry, about looking at the numbers currently in this school in terms of trying to expand the capacity here to take that shortfall. So, how is that going to work? Because we already have such a high proportion of kids here with ASN needs, Bishopton’s in the same boat, we’re going to then be taking more kids into these smaller areas, we’re going to be squeezing them in like sardines almost. David: Steve Quinn gave the Parent Council of this school a categoric guarantee that he would not extend this school beyond those portacabins, are you backtracking on that? Page 435 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined Gerry Lyons: No, so-, Kevin: But on top of that as well-, Gerry Lyons: Where we are at the moment-, sorry Kevin. Kevin: Sorry, yes, so in terms of that, is it going to be a detriment to the kids that are currently here with ASN, the kids that are currently at Bishopton with ASN needs, by even just now, bringing in more and more kids, even up to 2027? Is that going to be an issue? Because I think it is, I seriously think it is. Gerry Lyons: I don’t believe so, I don’t believe so, because we have to manage the capacity of the school as to what we’ve got. So, we’ve got 595 in the school just now including the modular units or the-, Liz: Portacabins. Gerry Lyons: Portacabins, depending on what phraseology’s your favourite. Kevin: If you look at the side it says, ‘Portacabin!’ Gerry Lyons: That’s the company. Various voices talking over each other. Gerry Lyons: It’s a technicality, but I suppose my point is this, we’ve got 595 at the moment, the plans moving forward are to operate with a new school of 800. We won’t be at 800 when we open, it won’t open at 800. That should allow us to take this school down to 434 and operate within that. Now, there is a potential scenario where it goes up to 1,500 and that point, we would have to consider, David, your point, which would be that to meet that, if it gets to 1,500-, if you push me on it, I think it will sit somewhere between the two, between 1,100 and 1,500 but if it goes to 1,500 we would then be looking at 800 there and a potential extension to here. Are the portacabins included your numbers there? Not in the 434. So, they’re temporary portacabins, when would they be moved? But it would have to be (talking over each other) Yes, they’ve only got a-, Five-year. Five-year building warranty. David: Gerry Lyons: David: Kevin: Gerry Lyons: Frank Farrell: Gerry Lyons: Dougie: Can we just touch on the areas that are designed for health and wellbeing? So, you’ve got the MUGA, you’ve got the playground and-, the impact of the portacabins for one, but the other one is the gym hall I was going to touch on. The impact of the portacabins inside the playgrounds is it condenses the playground, so if that becomes a longer term solution it does impact the children’s play outdoors. We had a lot of issues where the gym hall-, because of the size of school, the gym hall needs to be used across the entire school, so when it comes to PE days for the kids, they’ve got to go outside because Page 436 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined the gym hall has a rota, for example. The playground will have an impact on that, the MUGA has an impact on that, for example, as well, where if it’s raining-, Gerry Lyons: Is that a negative impact you’re talking about? Dougie: Yes, if it’s raining outside, for example, the MUGA can’t be used. There are many days that the kids will just do physical activity in their classrooms where they’re standing behind their desk doing yoga, for example. It’s not development in terms of the hand eye coordination and all that, kind of, good stuff. There’s a commitment that needs to be given to this school around how you future proof the health and wellbeing spaces for recreation, but is that learning being built into the new school as well, where you’re building a gym hall that’s big enough for the actual school itself? Gerry Lyons: Yes, is the short answer to that, we believe that the plans have sufficiently sized health and wellbeing spaces in terms of sport and exercise. There is a public pitch built into it which will not be changed to anything that-, you know, that’s built in and one of the things that I was saying was-, Kevin: That was the same here, we were told it wouldn’t be changed here (talking over each other) Gerry Lyons: Kevin, but you know the issue there is-, Kevin: It comes down to money because (talking over each other) building it. Gerry Lyons: I’m not asking you-, Kevin: And it will come down to money eventually. Gerry Lyons: Aye, I’m not asking you to believe me because why would I? Because you’ve already pointed out, you’ve been told stuff that never happened. I think the difference, in terms of the pitch is, in some ways-, and I wasn’t here, so you’ll understand that there was an element that it was a, ‘If we can do it, great, if we can’t then there’s something there we could-,’ it is fundamental to the design of the new school, that it not only provides a high level education space for the children but it provides those facilities for the community, and the pitch is part of that. One of the things that I’ve been told by you, and I don’t know if you mentioned it, David, but I know that George Morrison talked about the fact that he’s taking his teams all over the place to play, Bishopton Football Club. Kevin: I’ve told you, I’ve been refereeing games with Bishopton over 35’s, for instance, at Toryglen-, Gerry Lyons: Aye, I’m not that concerned about Bishopton over 35’s (talking over each other) that’s from a football perspective. Kevin: (talking over each other) but it is, that is our community. Gerry Lyons: I agree completely. M9: I play for the Bishopton over 35s and we play in Scotstoun. Page 437 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined Gerry Lyons: Sorry, I’m only concerned about-, Kevin: Scotstoun, Toryglen. Gerry Lyons: No, but your point’s a good one. Dougie: But you have to get in a car, it’s back to the original point I made in the last one, which is, we’re in a society where we want to become carbon neutral. For anything that we want to do in Bishopton, you’re getting in a car and you have to drive somewhere. Gerry Lyons: Absolutely, so that’s why, as I said at the start, one of the key principles of this is, community facility. So, that will be sport in terms of the pitches, in terms of gym halls, I’ve got dance studios we’re looking at as well, and other kinds of facilities for art and design, you know, that kind of thing as well. So that the new building actually adds value to this community and deals with some of those issues. Kevin: Is that a cast iron guarantee you’ve given us that you’re not going to be taking away-, Gerry Lyons: I don’t give cast iron guarantees, Kevin, I can’t even give you a cast iron guarantee that I’ll be here tomorrow. Kevin: Gerry, can you give us a cast iron guarantee that (talking over each other) is going to be a 4G pitch? Gerry Lyons: Kevin, do you not think that one of the things we’ve got to do is learn from mistakes? One of the mistakes that was made the last time was that people gave cast iron guarantees and didn’t deliver on them. Various voices talking over each other. David: You’ve just said we need to learn from mistakes, okay so the mistake is, you didn’t have a 3G pitch. Just say you’re going to fix it, it’s a little gesture, you’re going to fix it. Gerry Lyons: Oh, that one? David: Okay, no, at the new school. This consultation is about the new school, I could give you a list as long as my arm about this school if you want but I never quite nailed you all down to stating on the public record that the new school that you’re going to build is not going to be open plan. Can each of you just say that? Yes? Gerry Lyons: As far as I possibly can, and I know you don’t like that phrase but I’m going to use it, because I’m not going to do what Steven Quinn did which was to give cast iron guarantees he didn’t deliver on. Liz: What are you consulting on? Gerry Lyons: I am completely against open plan schools. David: So, is the new school going to be open plan, yes or no? Gerry Lyons: Not at the moment. Page 438 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined David: Is it going to be open plan? Sorry, you need to speak so it’s recorded. Janie O’Neill: No, it will not be an open plan school, you have been very clear with us that that’s what you don’t want and I’m assuming that, you’re speaking for a number of parents around it. F4: Absolutely. Liz: I don’t think anyone (talking over each other) Janie O’Neill: So, we’re absolutely not in favour of building something which the community don’t agree with and which has not been conducive to-, David: So, if it costs £500,000 more, is that in the budget? Janie O’Neill: Can I just finish my point? Because I want to just talk about the open plan bit, because obviously when I’ve come in, that’s been something that you were talking about and you feel strongly about. You’ll know that at one point everybody wanted an open plan school, well, not here, generally, in Scotland there were lots of schools being built. I know that just because of my background but now, obviously, there’s a change around that, people don’t want it. You’re talking about your child being in a portacabin and enjoying it-, David: ‘Living her best life’ was actually the phrase. Janie O’Neill: And I totally understand that, so the other thing, which obviously, Gerry-, I know it’s up there, you might not have had a chance to look at it. The other thing has been about the voices of, obviously, the children themselves and what they feel better about. You’ve said your child is loving it, and I would assume that that’s the, kind of, feeling and background-, the feedback you’re getting from both of your children. David: The teachers do too, the teachers enjoy being in portacabins. Janie O’Neill: Yes, and again-, David: It’s quiet, it’s isolated and frankly, you don’t have kids in ear defenders, I mean, that’s embarrassing. Gerry Lyons: Some of the feedback we’ve had from the teachers is exactly that, which is-, David: Because when you guys aren’t around the teachers tell us the truth. When you guys come in, they tell you what they think you want to hear. Various voices talking over each other. Janie O’Neill: No, no, you’re talking to a teacher. David: It’s not funny either, it’s not funny, this is kids’ education. Kids are wearing ear defenders up there because they can’t hear. Janie O’Neill: No, of course it’s not funny. David: Children with additional support needs are causing chaos to other people, it’s not a laughing matter. Janie O’Neill: No, not laughing. Page 439 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined Gerry Lyons: Of course, it’s not a laughing matter. Emma Henry: See when it comes to, just to, kind of, touch on additional support needs, every child has a bespoke package if they need it, okay? So, we’re looking at every child individually, if a child requires ear defenders it will be for a reason, it will be part of their package of support. So, there might be reasons that sit within that, and it might be a busy space, it might be a less busy space, it can be for sensory reasons, there can be a whole variety of reasons. Liz: There are also children though, that started wearing ear defenders for no other reason than that their class was really noisy. Emma Henry: I can’t comment on that without knowing all the background (talking over each other) Various voices talking over each other. Emma Henry: Yes, and I appreciate that but what I would say is, that in relation to, when we’re looking at children’s individual support plans, it’s about really looking at exactly what they need in the environment that they’re in. Whether that be here, in the new school, in Bishopton, wherever it is, so it’s bespoke (Timecode: 01:10:00) to those children. David: If you go through that list, where on the list comes, ‘The children need a really noisy environment’? Where does that-, that they need it? Which child needs that? Emma Henry: Well, see in terms of the curriculum-, so, if we take additional support needs out of it, Head Teacher, primary teacher, there are different activities that require different levels of activity within it, so that’s why-, David: You’re playing football in a MUGA, great, shout and scream, that’s great but if you’re trying to do a maths equation-, Emma Henry: You could be doing something within your class and that’s why a flexible space is actually much, much better for that because that gives you, within your class-, David: And you would say (talking over each other) there are times you need quiet? Emma Henry: Let me finish, yes, absolutely. David: And the class next door’s doing the riotous act, that’s the issue. Emma Henry: Is that not what Frank was talking about in relation to-, David: About fixing it? Two years on, it’s not fixed. Kevin: What we’ve got just now, what we’ve got in this school, for instance, we have got areas where you’ve got two classes back to back, an open plan space. So, you’ve got no partition, you’ve got nothing there at all. What the teachers are having to do is try and plan their activities together to try and make it as good as they possibly can in terms of how it works. But that doesn’t always work because one group might have PE but it’s peeing down outside and they can’t get out. So, they’re having to do PE in their class-, Page 440 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined Dougie: Because there’s no gym space. Kevin: When somebody else is trying to do more focused activity. And that does not happen, it is really, really difficult. Dougie: Renfrewshire Council 2024, welcome. Kevin: Because of the way the school is designed. I’m just using the P1 because you can go and look at it and check, it’s so, so difficult. Emma Henry: I’ve been, I’ve seen it. Gerry Lyons: I’ve walked round the school and one of the things that we’re trying to say here is that-, we’re consulting on a new school, you’re telling us very clearly that the design of this school is not working for the children the way it was hoped. So, therefore we’re going to take that on board and do a better job with the new school. Kevin: What I’m going to ask as well, is that I really hope that when we’re doing that with a new school, this school does not get left behind with the children who are in this catchment area. Gerry Lyons: Absolutely. Liz: And Bishopton, specifically. Kevin: And Bishopton. Liz: (talking over each other) Kevin: So, Bishopton’s a bit more challenging because of the space but for me, we’re talking about a new park-, Gerry Lyons: Listen, don’t start Liz on what she wants for Bishopton. Kevin: I know exactly what Liz wants for Bishopton, to a large extent. But we’re talking about a new 4G football park at the new school, let’s get that turned into a 4G park where it is then, more utilised throughout the day. Even if it’s a 9V9 park, we can get some of the kids in there playing, using it outwith hours. We can make that-, F4: Yes, don’t make it that we need to wait three years, I’ve already lived in Dargavel for five years. Kevin: Don’t make us wait for that, that can be done tomorrow. F4: So, don’t make us wait three years. Kevin: Yes, that can be done tomorrow but let’s not make it a them and us mentality again with the new school and this school. It’s got-, Dougie: (talking over each other) down the line, we cost more money further down the line but we also invest in people right now as well. The returns would be exponential, you keep things local to Bishopton, people want to stay here, you’ll get your Council taxes, the rollover effect is massive, I don’t need to tell you that, but it’s huge. Page 441 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined Gerry Lyons: No, no, it’s a fair point and it is also a fair point, and it’s a point that certainly has to be a part of the ongoing community engagement discussion which is that this should not be-, and I’ll use inverted commas, so I’m not saying, ‘A second prize,’ to the new school. We have to ensure that what we offer all the children in Dargavel is a quality of education provision that’s equal whatever school you go to, and I include Bishopton in that. But some of that is about more than just the buildings, it’s about the quality of learning and teaching, it’s about the planning of the curriculum and all of those other issues. Certainly, what we don’t want is that that has to be done to accommodate a design that’s not helpful, so we’re going to work really hard to make sure that doesn’t happen. Dougie: For the record, sorry, I didn’t see your hand up there, the teachers in here are absolutely amazing, what they do with the mess you guys have thrown them, the collective mess of Renfrewshire Council (talking over each other) Gerry Lyons: I met with them during an in-service day and I was really, really impressed with them. Emma Henry: Yes, they’re brilliant. Gerry Lyons: Really impressed with the Head Teacher, so you’ve got great teachers working with it. They gave me a loud message as well, they didn’t say something different to what you’re saying to me today. So, we hear what you’re saying. Chris Dalrymple: If I can very quickly (talking over each other) Dougie: Honestly, this lady puts her hand up, everybody else just butts in, she needs to speak because (talking over each other) F7: We asked a question at the start, was the design agreed and we have actually really enjoyed looking at the school, and we really do think it’s a very good school. So, we would really hope that this is what the school looks like and, I guess, I have two questions. My first question is, what are the barriers for this school to not look like this? Obviously, cost being one but are there any other barriers? Then my second question is, if the design of the school is not currently agreed, when would you envisage that you would have a design ready for? Because I, kind of, saw this and thought, ‘This is what it’s going to look like,’ and I went home really excited. If that’s not the case, when would you be able to tell us? F4: Because there’s no architect at the moment. Gerry Lyons: So, the design, the colleagues will be able to take you through that. Chris Dalrymple: If I can very quickly-, because that’s perfect, that’s the perfect lead in to what I was going to say. So, my name’s Chris Dalrymple, I’m the Head of Facilities and Property Services, and with my colleague Frank, we’re going to be responsible for projecting managing and building this building. Exactly as you have said there, we’re going to listen, that’s why we’re here tonight, to listen, to make sure that the mistakes that were made here aren’t made again, and Frank and the team that will project manage this will take it on Page 442 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined board. We can’t do a proper design until we know the exact site. So, we’ve talked about passive house, net zero, next door etc, for us to get the orientation, the site, the design, the build, the topography, we need to know that site first. But Frank and the team are working in the background with Hub West Scotland to look at architects, designers. Space planning have done that, we did that for a reason, so it would help influence our design as we move forward. So, the question you asked there is, ‘What would stop it looking like that?’ You talked about money, that is part of it but we went to-, Space Solutions? Gerry Lyons: Space Zero. Chris Dalrymple: Space Zero, to help us do that, to influence it so that Frank’s project managers can look at it and say, ‘Well, there you go, we’ve got ready made plans there, how do we build this into our design so we can get it looking like that?’ We can look at making sure it’s not fully open plan, that we listen as part of this, because what I don’t want to do is, no offence, be sitting here in three years and saying, ‘Chris you’ve sat here and said you were going to listen to us,’ that’s why we’re here tonight, to listen. F7: So, the Space Zero people, they’re architects or designers, they’re not teachers themselves and they might have-, they’re like, ‘Oh, this is a banging idea, this is going to be amazing,’ and then actually you could probably ask a teacher and then they’d go, ‘Oh no, I don’t like that.’ Is that being consulted as well? Chris Dalrymple: 100% and that’s why we need to liaise with, not just Janie, Gerry and Emma but Gerry Carlton in here with other teachers, so that we can learn from that. Because you’re right, I’ve worked with Space Zero, who have helped us in Renfrewshire Council, our buildings recently, and it looked great on paper but when you went to actually, physically do it, you couldn’t quite do it the same way. So, again, it’s great on a piece of paper but we have to get it right, and again Janie, I think it’s right, we’ve got the governance we feel correct to review this at the Learning Estate Programme Board. That we’ve got people feeding into it, that we keep checking what we’re doing is correct and obviously speaking to the community as well. F7: Are you doing that quarterly, how are you checking how it all-, Chris Dalrymple: Our Learning Estate Board, I think is every-, Gerry Lyons: It’s every two weeks. Chris Dalrymple: Every two weeks. Janie O’Neill: Every two weeks, yes (talking over each other) meets with the Board every two weeks. Gerry Lyons: So, we’ve got a Project Board-, Chris Dalrymple: Yes, we’ve got a Project Board and Programme Board. Gerry Lyons: So, between the two-, David: Will we be able to feed into the design, like, as a community? Page 443 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined Gerry Lyons: Yes, so one of the, kind of, conditions-, not so much a condition, one of the criteria for appointing the architect is that that architect is bought in to coming out to the community with the drawings, with the proposals, and just taking that whole community engagement. So, the short answer is yes, because that’s one of the conditions we’ve put on an architect. David: Can I put a niche request in for incorporating some nature friendly solutions, we’re in a semi-rural environment, you could put in swift boxes, it’s an amazing learning experience for the children to see birds nesting. You could build hedges for hedgehogs, that’s a niche request but can I put that, since you’re here? Gerry Lyons: I don’t know if it is a niche request actually, I think one of the big issues for-, one of the things on the education reform agenda was the feedback from young people that the environment and climate change is one of the biggest priorities in their education. David: It’s spending time in nature that calms you down, that’s the whole-, Liz: But you’ll have to make sure that there’s stuff for the older kids to do otherwise they’ll come in and trash it all. Gerry Lyons: Yes, and actually that’s been some of the really interesting feedback from the consultation, which is, ‘What can we do for the teenage population in this area, who at the moment don’t seem to have a hell of a lot to do?’ Kevin: (talking over each other) building a high school and getting better facilities involved with that as well? More football, more sports, more-, Gerry Lyons: Yes, actually-, Various voices talking over each other. Gerry Lyons: (talking over each other) persistence that I love. Kevin: But I don’t think I’m alone in that Gerry, I think that is a big concern. Gerry Lyons: No, you’re not alone. F4: Can I just come back to, actually, now that we’ve brought this up, and I appreciate that’s not about tonight, but something that’s sticking in my head is that you reckon that pupil numbers could go up to 1,500. So, straight away that rings huge alarm bells for me on the Park Mains situation. So, my understanding is there are further conversations to be had but-, Gerry Lyons: Yes, there is. F4: That’s a wild issue for me and by the time 2027 comes, my kids, it’ll be high school I’ll be looking at. Gerry Lyons: Listen, it’s absolutely one of the issues that’s come up, you know, throughout all the conversations that we’ve had. I don’t want to fob you off and I won’t fob you off. I need to come back and have other conversations about Park Mains, and I need to (Timecode: 01:20:00) bring the figures with a lot more thoroughness than I’ve brought so far, so that we can have that debate and Page 444 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined that conversation. I’ve already got a date in my diary for the Bishopton Parent Council-, David: It’s already been signed off by the Council that they’re building an extension capped at 2,000, it’s fait accompli. Liz: It’s not a consultation. David: What are you going to be talking to us about? Gerry Lyons: We’re going to talk to you about why we think that’s the right solution and what might happen-, David: Seventeen double decker buses from Bishopton and Langbank, at a cost of £1 million a year, your figures, £1 million a year to bus them. Gerry Lyons: Yes, again, undoubtedly the transport issue’s one that we have to look at and you know that but all I’m saying is, in terms of the numbers, we’ll come back and we’ll have that conversation with you as to why we think they’ll work, whereas a lot of you think they won’t. And I get that, so that’s fine. David: You won’t listen to us and you’ll do what you want, and that’s the proven track record of Renfrewshire Council. ‘Don’t listen to the community, do what we think is best, we’re proven wrong, change the people and say, “It wasn’t me, I’m sorry.”’ I can give you 25 examples of that. Gerry Lyons: David, at no point have I said, ‘It wasn’t me.’ David: I think you did say, ‘I wasn’t here at that time,’ earlier, which is the same as, ‘It wasn’t me.’ Gerry Lyons: Well, that’s different, at the end of the day, we are here as Renfrewshire Council, we recognise what’s happened before, completely get that. And I think you’re right actually, I think you’re right-, David: Park Mains is not going to work, we’ll tell you that. Gerry Lyons: I think you’re right in the sense that you’re saying, ‘These are the experiences we’ve had before,’ I can’t undo that, I just can’t undo it. All I can try and do is be thorough, open, engaged and precise about what we’re trying to do. David: My attack’s not on you personally and you have to say that, but we’ve heard it all before. Various voices talking over each other. Gerry Lyons: That’s the point I can’t change though, isn’t it? Liz: But part of that is, you’re coming out and you’re doing a, sort of, public consultation and inviting views but it already feels like it’s already decision made. F4: Yes, it’s more of a token gesture, that’s what it feels like. David: The decision has been made. Page 445 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined Gerry Lyons: The public consultation on the primary is absolutely not a decision made. Liz: But it’s that or we say, ‘Back to the drawing board,’ and then we have to accept the risk of having to bus the children out to other schools. Those are our options, which aren’t-, Gerry Lyons: Not necessarily you accept the risk, you accept the risk of having to do something temporary but in some regards, that’s just us being fully transparent about the constraints. It might not be that you have to bus them to other schools, it might be, but all I’m doing is saying to you is that as a community, that’s what you need to know to make a decision. If, knowing all of that, you say, ‘Do you know what, Gerry? To get it to where we absolutely want to get it to, we’ll go to 2030,’ then tell me that. F4: Who makes that decision though? Because is there is a democratic vote? Gerry Lyons: That’s the Councillors who will make the final decision. F4: You know, so to me, to leave it to the Councillors is just easy answers signed off. David: The Council decide it, it’s whipped on party lines, the SNP have the majority. The current governing SNP have never gone against the guidelines of the officers, the people who are making the decision are these people here. That’s the fact of the matter. The decision is made whether they’re going to (talking over each other) Gerry Lyons: The technical final decision will be with the Councillors but we have a view that our proposal is the right one. F4: But that’s what makes tonight the biggest waste of time. David: Hands up if you think this proposal is the right one, of the parents in the room? So, that’s a resounding, big fat no. Gerry Lyons: But then I’ve got 200 online questionnaires that don’t reflect that, so it’s bigger than this David, than we just put our hands up. Liz: I heard that there were only 140. Kevin: There were 120 when I was at the Council meeting last week, when I was speaking to Louisa and yourself. Janie: 253 as of today. Liz: That’s good, that’s great. Kevin: Fantastic. Gerry Lyons: That’s great and those are not reflecting-, Kevin: Are we able to see what the feedback is? Because I know from a lot of people that have filled it in, what their views are. I would suggest it’s not overwhelming rejection of the site but it’s more because of-, Page 446 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined F4: My worry is, when I talk to people there’s a huge potential that people that have filled out these surveys or whatever, they’re doing it lacking lots of basic information. Kevin: Absolutely. F4: Because everything’s a PR exercise, so you guys are giving us the information that you want us to have, we, that come to these, probe, we then actually learn, ‘Actually, that’s not fact, that’s not fact, that’s PR spin, that’s PR spin.’ David: Very few people look into the actual facts, they believe the PR unfortunately. F4: Exactly. David: And the Council rely on that apathy and that’s why it’s-, Gerry Lyons: I’m going to come back to that point. F4: It’s terrifying. Kevin: What I’m hearing from people that I know have filled out the survey, is they feel that they’ve got to accept site E1 because if they don’t, they don’t have a school by 2027 and it’s likely to be mid 2030s before a solution is delivered. F4: Yes, this man’s had his hand up. M10: You just mentioned E1 as well there but we also talked about, you weren’t in the room of course, but the previous session looked at plot 22. Is there scope within the Council to consider a joint or split school that would look at primary and secondary on a bigger space? Is that ever on the plans-, ?: 22 looks good for that. M10: Yes, exactly and is that ever a consideration? Gerry Lyons: I think it’s been considered and for reasons-, I’ve not been involved in that consideration, and that’s not me saying, ‘It’s nothing to do with me,’ so I think the decision was made that it wasn’t the right option. M10: Should that have gone to public consultation? F4: Yes. Gerry Lyons: No, it doesn’t have to go to public consultation. Kevin: It has been considered, however, local elected members have decided that they do not want a high school in Bishopton. They want to extend Park Mains because that was always what Park Mains was built and designed for. So, Park Mains was built so that it could be extended if required. They were basing that on the 2,000 number of houses, 2,500, so they’ve decided that regardless, they are going to extend Park Mains because if they don’t, it leaves Park Mains sitting between 800 and 1,000 pupils which is half-, Gerry Lyons: It leaves it sitting between 650 and 800. Kevin: Well, that’s not what’s been shown by Edge Analytics. David: The extension’s not (talking over each other) Page 447 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined Gerry Lyons: Dougie: Gerry Lyons: Kevin: Gerry Lyons: Kevin: Chris Dalrymple: Kevin: Chris Dalrymple: Kevin: Various voices talking over each other. Anyway, listen, I have to be aware of time. It’s 8:45, we’ve got to get the janny home, so I’m going to take one more question and then we’ll go in next door and finish for nine o’clock. The Park Mains discussion is, you know, beyond this, this is a statutory consultation that finishes at a particular time and I’m more than happy to come back and have further discussion about Park Mains. Yes, sorry, you’ve got the last one. I mentioned about gym and recreation earlier, and I just wanted to have on record as well about lunch facilities and the lunch hall. There’s a situation just now where the lunch hall, even though it’s spaced across, there’s a rota for lunches, if you’re packed lunch or you’re getting facilities at the school, then you can’t actually sit together because there’s not enough space. So, you’ve got some kids actually sitting having their lunch in the classroom just now, so that has to be something that’s addressed in the new school, but if you’re expanding the school in the future as well, in terms of using portacabins etc, you have to consider wider facilities. We have to consider that, okay, thank you. Can I just (talking over each other) No, that was the last one, Kevin, thank you. No, no, that’s time, we’ve got to end. Come through next door and (talking over each other) Various voices and background noise from 01:27:00 to end of recording. There was a reason we could not build on a hill because that is what I’ve been told by Alasdair Morrison. We cannot build the school on a hill but one of the big things that we’re getting from the kids-, it’s very expensive but apart from money, one of the things we’re getting from the kids is they-, Money’s a factor. It is a factor but it can’t be the main driver when we’re in this position. What we’re getting from the kids and teacher is that they are loving having direct access to outside space. If we build a new school, we’re not going to build it all on the one level because it’s impossible, we’re going to have to build it the same as we have here, up the level. If that was on a hill, for instance, then we have got direct access, top floor out at the back, ground floor out at the bottom, but there is still that potential. So, is there a reason why that cannot even be looked at? Because that’s one of the things which is (talking over each other). It wasn’t, when I spoke to Alasdair , a lot of the sites were discounted because it was on hill, it would be expensive, and that was literally it. It wasn’t looked at, the other benefits. To be honest, that is a big part of it, Kevin, is finance (inaudible) But why (inaudible) got to? Because what we were told was, ‘We need to fix this, we’ve not set a budget but this is what we expect it to cost.’ So, we’ve not told been told (talking over each other) exactly. But if it was to cost 70 million to get the right solution then it’s £70 million, whereas what we’re doing just now is, we’re saying, ‘This is our budget now.’ So, we are then Page 448 of 503
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Dargavel Primary 05.03.24 B session, second room combined Chris Dalrymple: Kevin: Chris Dalrymple: Kevin: Chris Dalrymple: Gerry Hannah: Chris Dalrymple: Kevin: Chris Dalrymple: Kevin: Gerry Lyons: Chris Dalrymple: (inaudible), so what the lady said as well, ‘Are there any reasons why it won’t look like what’s on the actual board?’ We’re saying, ‘Because that is our budget, that’s what we’re tied to now.’ No, that’s a different answer (inaudible) We’ll be criticised if we build something expensive, we’ll be criticised if we don’t do it on the site that’s the preference. You’re bringing in well over £10 million a year already from this development, Council tax, well over. We don’t get our bins emptied, we get our bins emptied at the house but we’ve got to pay for all the (inaudible) round about, the paths and whatever else, (inaudible). We pay for the grass cutting, we’ve not got a leisure centre, we’ve got to go to Erskine and Renfrew. We don’t get anything here at all but all that money’s going into the pot, but there’s nothing coming back. I suppose, the only answer is, it’s not going into our pot, if you know what I mean, so again-, Aye, but that’s what I’m saying, it’s one of the ones of saying, ‘Right okay, we can’t make it too expensive but you’ve got to make sure you get it right.’ For me, it’s getting right and it might cost an extra £10 million but you get it right because (inaudible) the kids ultimately. I suppose, the biggest thing is, we’ll be led by Alasdair and finance etc. We will know exactly what our budget is and we will build-, (talking over each other) it might sound negative, but it’s a fact, that’s the harsh realities of-, Anyway, let’s go in. I just wanted to ask you because I know we spoke on the phone (Timecode: 01:30:00) a couple of times, any problems with the school crossing patrol? (inaudible) much, much better. Good. But it’s really the ones where we are (inaudible for several seconds) It’s just so busy and (inaudible) Listen, at the end of the day, I’m chairing the meeting and whether it suits you or not, I’m not going to have a show of hands. We have a very detailed process, we’ve got an online (talking over each other) (talking over each other) Recording ends. Page 449 of 503
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Appendix G Parent Council 29th January 2024 Subcommittee for fundraising Gerry What the consultation is: Process – talk through Gerry – solution for whole of Renfrewshire Children Community engagement - not necessarily get what you want - Proposal – only a relevant proposal - Build a second PS in Dargavel on site identified - Adjust catchment areas - New 800 pupils – sufficient based on projection of Edge Analytics - Copies of proposal in school - 2 drop in sessions – conversation café – 9am-2pm – 8th February - Drop in online – 8th February - 4 evening sessions – all depts represented - 19th February public meeting - 2 more evening sessions - 2nd public meeting - Online questionnaire - Is this the only proposal – Liz – this is a proposal - Do you own the site? o 100% we own the site - Standard consultation is done on one proposal if people put forward another proposal needs to be listened to - If no solution by August 27 – pupils may need to go out with Bishopton Primary - Edge Analytics – recognised leaders in the filed - Has it been used on a similar development - Yes Page 450 of 503
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Appendix H Kevin McIntyre Chairperson Dargavel Primary Parent Council Janie O’Neill Childrens Services Renfrewshire Council Renfrewshire House Cotton Street Paisley PA1 1TZ Subject: Response to New Dargavel Primary School Consultation Dear Janie, I am writing on behalf of the Parent Council to formally address our objections to the proposed site E1 for the new Dargavel Primary School as part of the ongoing consultation process. Our primary concern centres around the safety implications associated with site E1, particularly regarding traffic risks and proximity to water courses. We firmly believe that the proposed location poses an intolerable risk to the safety of our children, with inadequate infrastructure to support the anticipated volumes of traffic and foot traffic. Additionally, the strain on the footpath network and the proximity to water courses heightens safety concerns, particularly for the youngest children attending the current primary school and the proposed school. Furthermore, we are deeply troubled by the flawed nature of the consultation process thus far. From the outset, there have been instances of information being withheld or presented incompletely, seemingly to validate the predetermined selection of site E1. The divisive narrative surrounding the necessity of site E1, coupled with the exclusion of alternative sites from the consultation, only reinforces our belief that the consultation process has been biased and lacking in transparency. It is evident from this process that the council are continuing to simply pay lip service to residents rather than enacting the promises made in light of the 'Bowles' report to actively listen to the community to repair trust and confidence. It is our contention that the Education Department and Renfrewshire Council have failed to learn from past mistakes, as evidenced by the disregard for community input and the continued neglect of the needs of Bishopton residents. By proceeding with the current proposed site at E1 coupled with failing to develop proposals for a secondary school to serve the Bishopton area shows the complete disdain that the local Page 451 of 503
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Appendix I Bishopton Community Council – Excerpt of Minute of meeting 6.3.24 Primary School Consultation Louisa stated that there had been a leaflet drop throughout the area although this was late in some areas. She urged people to do the online survey, or to contact them directly. Further copies of the consultation documents would be sent to David for distribution. Gerry stated the consultation was for the second primary school for Dargavel, he would take any questions, and if unable to answer he would get back to David. He said he, and RC were now trying to rectify the lack of communication and trust between the residents and RC. A list of questions had been submitted to Gerry prior to the meeting, many of which were of concerns about the state Bishopton Primary School, - it needs repairs, it is over 60 years old, the grounds were a disgrace and what was the “end of life” plan for BPS. Gerry replied that there was limited funding for the existing school’s estate , and while BPS was “a wind and water tight structure, and was a welcoming environment for education”, he was well aware of the impact Dargavel had had on the school. Sam Marshalsay felt that the impact on BPS was being downplayed. In the rush to re-configure the school for the increase in pupils from Dargavel, much of the school’s resources were disposed of due to lack of storage as all space was required for teaching. Sam stated RC does not seem to realize the scale of investment needed in the buildings and playground. Gerry said he would speak with the Head Teacher to get a better understanding, but that the Parent Council MUST be involved. He stated there were 62 educational facilities in Renfrewshire, all requiring maintenance. BPS was classed as “B” on a condition survey and would be maintained “fit for purpose”. In a letter to Gerry the point was made that the outdoor learning area was in effect useless as it was continuously vandalized (despite CCTV), a plea that security of the site was more important than fence painting! It was also noted that some windows in the school do not open, and it gets very stuffy in warm weather! Also that the library roof had leaked for 9 years! It was stated that BPS “must not be left behind”, but also that Dargavel PS must not be left behind either! Gerry said he would try to find ways of funding improvements, e.g. fence painting. but was mindful of the need to “triage” requirements for the whole schools estate. The Learning Estate is looked at Annually! BPS was highly rated by HMI. The vandalism was regarded as a symptom of there being little or nothing for teenagers to do. There was no transport to Erskine, where PMHS offered some activity. Gerry stated he was happy to back a bigger discussion on activities for teenagers. Alan Brown referred back to the original S75 which had included community facilities, but RC and BAE had removed them. He urged that no more houses should be built until all current problems are resolved. David Love (Planning) said that since planning approval had been granted, it would not be possible to do that! Ms Ure accepted the appalling situation and apologised for it and stated that BPS would NOT be ignored. This lack of facilities led on to a discussion around the possibility of a secondary campus in the Bishopton/Dargavel area, and the capacity of PMHS in the future. A lively discussion around the pupil numbers ensued, with Alan Brown taking to the whiteboard to explain his calculations :- BPS capacity 519, DPS design capacity 430, new Primary School design capacity 800. Total pupils in Darg/Bish 1750. This is equivalent to approx 250 pupils per year. For the 6 years of secondary this could be 1500 pupils at PMHS from the Bishopton Dargavel area alone. With the Council capping PMHS at 2000 pupils this leaves only 500 places for all pupils from Erskine, Inchinnan and Langbank which does not seem reasonable. Mr Lyons stood by the projected pupil numbers supplied by Edge Analytics (consultants engaged by RC), stating there were NO scenarios from Edge Analytics showing more than 2159, which included 160 llacing requests (which would be Page 452 of 503
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Appendix J Responses to the consulta�on survey can be found here htps://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/ Dargavel-school-consulta�on – this data only includes those respondents who provided permission to publish their comments. Page 453 of 503
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ANALYSIS OF RESPONSES TO THE DARGAVEL SCHOOL CONSULTATION Peter McColl PETER MCCOLL LIMITED | SOCIAL RESEARCH Appendix K Page 454 of 503
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1 Table of Contents EXECUTIVE SUMMARY ................................................................................................................................. 2 DISCUSSION OF FINDINGS .......................................................................................................................... 2 METHODOLOGY ........................................................................................................................................... 4 ANALYSIS OF RESPONSES ............................................................................................................................ 6 QUESTION 4: PLEASE CONFIRM YOU HAVE READ THE STATUTORY CONSULTATION DOCUMENT (FULL DOCUMENT) ... 6 QUESTION 5: WHICH OF THE FOLLOWING BEST DESCRIBES YOUR INTEREST IN THIS CONSULTATION? ........................ 6 QUESTION 6: PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER YOU ARE HAPPY FOR YOUR COMMENTS TO BE MADE PUBLIC? ................. 6 QUESTION 7: TO WHAT EXTENT DO YOU AGREE A NEW PRIMARY SCHOOL SHOULD BE BUILT IN DARGAVEL VILLAGE? ........................................................................................................................................................................... 6 QUESTION 8: CAN YOU TELL US THE REASON FOR YOUR ANSWER [TO QUESTION 7]? ............................................. 7 QUESTION 9: TO WHAT EXTENT DO YOU AGREE THE SCHOOL SHOULD BE BUILT ON THE PROPOSED 8.5-ACRE SITE AT THE NORTH END OF CRAIGTON DRIVE? .............................................................................................................. 13 QUESTION 10: CAN YOU TELL US THE REASON FOR YOUR ANSWER [TO QUESTION 9]? ........................................ 14 QUESTION 11: IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE THE NEW SCHOOL SHOULD BE BUILT ON THE PROPOSED SITE, WHAT IS YOUR SUGGESTED ALTERNATIVE AND WHY?.................................................................................................................. 24 QUESTION 12: TO WHAT EXTENT DO YOU AGREE WITH THE PROPOSED CATCHMENT AREA FOR THE EXISTING DARGAVEL PRIMARY SCHOOL AND THE NEW SCHOOL? ..................................................................................... 25 QUESTION 13: CAN YOU TELL US THE REASON FOR YOUR ANSWER [TO QUESTION 12]? ...................................... 26 QUESTION 14 IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS, IDEAS, ISSUES OR CONCERNS ABOUT THE PROPOSED SCHOOL, ITS LOCATION AND/OR CATCHMENT PLEASE DETAIL THOSE HERE ........................................................... 27 EMAIL SUBMISSIONS .................................................................................................................................. 30 CROSS ANALYSIS ....................................................................................................................................... 32 CONCLUSION ............................................................................................................................................. 36 ANNEX: CODEFRAME ................................................................................................................................ 37 Page 455 of 503
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2 Executive summary The consultation questionnaire enjoyed a broad response with 818 responses and found that there was overwhelming support for a new school. The proposed site split respondents almost evenly, with only 8 more opposing the chosen site than those who support it (331 to 323) and 161 respondents who did not express a preference. The most mentioned topics in textual responses included an urgent need for a new school and the need to ensure that amenity and traffic issues with a new school are addressed. Some concerns raised through the consultation relate to issues that are outwith the scope consultation, such as high school provision, and concerns remain about the council’s planning and decision making in relation to the Dargavel development. Discussion of findings There were a total of 818 survey responses analysed. The council initially received 847 online survey responses, but after removing duplication this reduced to 817, plus one written survey. Additionally, there were 15 responses by email or paper form to the consultation that did not fill out the survey. These were from 13 people: one had also responded to the survey and wished to make additional comment. Not all questionnaire respondents answered all questions, and many asked for their comments not to be made public. This analysis considers both the content and sentiment of all comments without citing any responses directly from respondents who did not wish their comments to be made public. The comments expressed by respondents fall into several categories. There is overwhelming support for a new school. 618 of those who responded ‘strongly support’ a new school (75.6% of all respondents). Another 96 (11.8%) ‘support’ it. This combined total in favour of a new school is 87.1%. The combined total of those who ‘oppose’ a new school is 77 (9.4%). Responses on the proposed site are much more evenly split. Those who disagree or strongly disagree with the proposed site very marginally exceed the number agreeing or strongly agreeing with the proposed site and a significant number did not express a preference. In raw numbers this is 331 against the proposed site (40.6%) to 323 for the proposed site (39.6%) - a difference of just 1%, and 161 who identified themselves as ‘neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the proposed site’ (19.8%). A qualitative analysis of the textual comments revealed the most consistent comments raised about the decision to build a new primary school and on the siting of the new primary school fall into the following categories: Page 456 of 503
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3 1. The need for a new school to be built as soon as possible to meet rising demand – which is by some distance the most frequently expressed opinion; 2. Traffic at the new school and the existing Dargavel Primary School; 3. The proximity of the new school to the existing school; 4. The community should have access to the school for community use; 5. Some wished for the current primary school to be extended, rather than a new school being built; 6. Having two primary schools will result in division in the community. Over a third of respondents referred to high school provision, including comments that the Dargavel and Bishopton community should have their own new high school or a joint high school and primary school site. Whilst not part of the consultation – the council has previously decided high school provision, those sentiments are presented for transparency. Some comments made by respondents, relating to the council’s planning and decision making processes and the approach to consultation, are also outwith the scope of this consultation but merit careful consideration by Renfrewshire Council as it progresses its review of its consultation and engagement practices. On the terms of the consultation, the proposal to build the school enjoys strong support, and the site also enjoys strong support in its potential for a stand-alone primary school. Of the 331 respondents who disagree or strongly disagree with the proposed site, when specifically asked in question 10, around 223 (67%) cite concerns about traffic, congestion, parking, other road infrastructure and associated issues with safety of children as their main reason for disagreement. They express concern that questions about mitigation of these issues have not yet been adequately addressed. They say that the proposed site is too close to the current school. The next group of objections from this group - about 36 respondents, focus on the lack of a high school or shared campus provision for 3-18 year education Some of those agreeing with the proposed site or not expressing a preference, would also ‘support’ a shared campus with primary and secondary provision. Others are concerned that provision of other facilities (including community and sporting amenities) have not been adequately considered (1%). About 5% of those who object to the proposed site want the new school to be either co-located with the current primary school or be very close to it Page 457 of 503
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4 (including the possibility of rebuilding the current school). They cite reasons of convenience if they have to drop off/collect children from different schools. 4.7% of all those who commented (39) discuss a perceived lack of strategic planning or foresight by the Council, including the failure to address demographic change, rushing the decision, or making the decision based on financial rather than community or educational reasons. Smaller groups of objectors include residents who express concern about the loss of a Central Park, noise and light pollution, or needing the site for housing instead. Those who responded in support of the proposed site all agree with a single proposal. Those who disagree have expressed a number of different approaches, none of which have been developed, tested and analysed in the same detail as the proposed site has been. Analysis of the textual responses does not produce a clear alternative to the proposed site. Methodology The responses were grouped by strength of response (strongly agree through to strongly disagree), the nature of the responses was then analysed using a codeframe which drew out the key textual themes in each set of responses. The code frame is provided in the annex. Having ascertained the key themes and applied a codeframe, it was possible to make observations about the qualitative data, which are reflected in the comments above. Responses on the Likert scale (Strongly agree through to Strongly disagree) were used to perform basic quantitative analyses that are presented below. This quantitative analysis then informed a qualitative analysis so that the reasons for respondents position could be understood. This took the form of sentiment analysis and helped to clarify what issues were being expressed together, and why particular positions were taken. This analysis helps to understand both the arguments that are most frequently used and the arguments that, while only infrequently mentioned might be significant. The qualitative analysis was then used to create a quantitative frame for analysis drawing on the most frequently mentioned arguments. This gives an idea of the breadth of feeling about particular issues. This analysis was done on the textual responses to the question which divided opinion most – Page 458 of 503
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5 “Can you tell us the reasons for your answer to the question: To what extent do you agree the school should be built on the proposed 8.5-acre site at the north end of Craigton Drive?” The responses provided by email were, except for one, not compatible with the questionnaire analysis. These have been analysed separately. The one that was included was a printed out and handwritten response to the questionnaire. Likert scale responses were added to the questionnaire, and the text analysed with the emails. Please note that percentages throughout the report are rounded to the nearest whole number. Page 459 of 503
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6 Analysis of responses There were a total of 818 responses to the questionnaire. The substantive questions were as follows (one question asked for postcode). Questions 1-3 asked for respondents name, address and postcode and there is no analysis recorded. Question 4: Please confirm you have read the statutory consultation document (full document) 818 respondents answered this question. 75 respondents (9.2%) said they had not read the document. The other 743 (90.8%) said they had. Question 5: Which of the following best describes your interest in this consultation? 584 Resident Parent/Carer 167 Resident of Renfrewshire 45 Pupil of affected school 42 Other The categorisation above is used to protect respondent identity. Question 6: Please indicate whether you are happy for your comments to be made public? 816 respondents answered this question. 380 respondents (46%) asked for their comments not to be shared. 2 respondents did not answer this question. The other 436 (53%) responded that they were content for their comments to be made public. Comments from those who did not answer the question and from those who did not wish their comments to be made public have had their comments included in the analysis but will not be directly cited. Question 7: To what extent do you agree a new primary school should be built in Dargavel Village? 816 respondents answered the question Respondents to this question were offered a Likert scale as follows: Strongly Agree – Agree – Neither Agree nor Disagree – Disagree – Strongly Disagree Their responses are presented in the chart below: Page 460 of 503
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7 • Strongly Agree: A significant majority – 618 (76%) of respondents, strongly agree with the proposition of building a new primary school. • Agree: 96 (12%) of respondents agree with the proposal. • Neither Agree nor Disagree: 25 (3%) of respondents have a neutral stance on the issue. • Disagree: 28 (3%) of respondents disagree with the proposal • Strongly Disagree: 49 (6%) of respondents are strongly against the proposal, indicating a notable segment of respondents with strong reservations or opposition. Question 8: Can you tell us the reason for your answer [to question 7]? 759 respondents answered this question. Responses have been analysed by the extent to which the respondent agreed with the statement on the Likert scale. The analysis below provides an overview of all the responses made. Some respondents raised multiple issues within their response. Those who strongly agree Population Growth and School Capacity: Code: INSUF_CAPACITY Strongly agree 76% Agree, 12% Neither, 3% Disagree3% Strongly disagree 6% To what extent do you agree a new primary school should be built in Dargavel Village? Strongly agree Agree Neither Disagree Strongly disagree Page 461 of 503
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8 • The rapid population growth in Dargavel necessitates the urgent construction of a new primary school. • Existing schools, notably Dargavel Primary and Bishopton Primary, are struggling to accommodate increasing student numbers, leading to overcrowding and compromised learning environments. • Families moving to the area were promised adequate schooling facilities, but the current situation falls short of expectations, with classrooms at capacity and makeshift solutions in place. Long-Term Planning and Future Needs: Code: PLANNING_ISSUES • While addressing the immediate need for a new primary school is crucial, there are calls for long-term planning to accommodate future educational requirements. • Suggestions include considering the need for a secondary school and ensuring that new school infrastructure is designed with future growth in mind. Community Impact and Quality of Life: Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS • Beyond educational concerns, there are broader impacts on the community, including disruptions to family life, property values, and community cohesion. • Families moving to Dargavel were promised local schooling options, but the current situation may require children to be bused to schools in neighbouring towns, affecting quality of life and community integration. Urgency and Immediate Action: Code: OVERCROWDING • The need for immediate action is emphasized to address the shortfall in school places and alleviate strain on existing resources. • Delaying the construction of a new school will only exacerbate the problem and prolong the compromised learning environment for students. Indifference and Lack of Expertise: Code: GOV_QUEST Page 462 of 503
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9 • Some respondents express indifference to the specific location of the school as long as it meets basic requirements. • Other respondents acknowledge a personal lack of expertise in urban planning, but there's recognition of the broader community’s need for action. Planning Failures and Council Oversight: Code: GOV_QUEST • There are a number of comments expressing dissatisfaction with Renfrewshire Council's planning and management, most significantly the failure to anticipate the demand for school places and provide adequate infrastructure. • Concerns are raised about the lack of foresight in building a school that quickly reached capacity, highlighting deficiencies in planning and coordination. Traffic Management and Safety: Code: TRAFFIC_INFRA • Concerns about traffic congestion, safety issues, and inadequate road infrastructure around proposed school sites are raised. • Proximity to existing schools exacerbates traffic congestion and safety risks, necessitating careful consideration of site selection. Parental Concerns and Preferences: Code: RESIDENTIAL_IMPACT • Concerns about noise levels, safety, and ease of access for children attending schools in close proximity. • Preferences include a larger campus with adequate facilities, including space for outdoor activities and parking. Those who agree Those who indicated they ‘agreed’ with the proposal to build a new school gave the following reasons: Solutions and Suggestions: Code: COMBINED_SCHOOL Page 463 of 503
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10 • Respondents propose solutions for future planning, advocating for facilities that include both primary and secondary schools. Urgency is emphasized in addressing the issue, given the ongoing population growth and the failures of the council's initial planning efforts. Community Impact and Concerns: Code: TRAFFIC_INFRA • Concerns expressed about the impact on the community, particularly regarding traffic and infrastructure. Respondents emphasize the need for proper planning to address these issues and ensure that new school facilities meet the community's needs. Need for Additional School Facilities: Code: INSUF_CAPACITY • Respondents highlight capacity underestimation and planning failures by the council, stressing the urgent need for new schools to accommodate population growth. The inadequacy of current school provision and its impact on children's education are major concerns, with calls for comprehensive solutions to address the issue. Criticism of Council's Handling and Planning Errors: Code: GOV_QUEST • Criticisms are directed towards the council's errors in handling the development, leading to overcrowding of existing schools. Disappointment with planning decisions is expressed, with residents questioning the lack of foresight in not building larger schools initially. Those who neither agree nor disagree Those who indicated “neither agree nor disagree” thought the following: Planning and Governance Code: RESIDENTIAL_IMPACT Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS • Criticism that the council did not adequately plan for the school's capacity needs, suggesting that Dargavel should have been built larger or extended. • There is a demand for a broader approach to addressing both short- term primary school capacity and long-term secondary school needs. Page 464 of 503
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11 • Some respondents believe the village is already large enough and that further housing development may not warrant the need for a new school. Location and Community Impact Code: RESIDENTIAL_IMPACT • Respondents suggest exploring other sites within the Bishopton area for the school, not just limiting to Dargavel. • There's dissatisfaction with the council's handling, with concerns about the village's expansion and its impact on the need for more schools. • Some respondents feel unaffected by the proposal due to not having children attending the local schools. School Size and Scope Code: EDUCATION_QUALITY • There is a desire for a larger combined primary and secondary school to cater to future growth. • Some argue that a high school would be a better addition considering future capacity needs. • Suggestions are made for a larger school that includes nursery, primary, and secondary levels to address long-term needs. Traffic and Infrastructure Concerns Code: TRAFFIC_INFRA • Concern about increased traffic due to the addition of more houses and a new school, particularly noting the strain on current roads. • There's a call for the school to be built in an area that can accommodate its needs without negatively impacting the village. • Ideally, existing infrastructure such as roads and the primary school would be improved rather than building entirely new facilities. Those who disagree Those who indicated they ‘disagree’ with the proposal to build a new school thought the following: Campus and Facility Expansion: Page 465 of 503
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12 Code: OVERCROWDING • There's a preference among respondents for the development of joint primary-secondary campuses to alleviate stress on existing schools. Suggestions for extending existing schools are made, with concerns raised about the conditions of some current school facilities. School Location and Infrastructure: Code: NEW_SCHOOL_LOCATION • Respondents express concerns about the suitability of the proposed school location, emphasizing the need to consider the entire community's needs. Traffic congestion and existing infrastructure inadequacies are highlighted as significant issues. Secondary School Provision: Code: COMBINED_SCHOOL • Respondents emphasize the need for secondary school provision to cater to the growing population. Suggestions include investing in existing schools or building new high schools to meet the demands of both Dargavel and Bishopton. Accountability and Oversight: Code: GOV_QUEST • Criticisms are directed towards previous planning decisions and management, with residents feeling misled about the development's amenities and infrastructure. Calls for better oversight and accountability in future planning processes are made to ensure community needs are met effectively. Community Impact and Division: Code: RESIDENTIAL_IMPACT • Concerns are voiced about potential community division and disruption caused by the proximity of multiple schools. Respondents express worries about the impact on residential areas and the quality of education in hastily constructed facilities. Page 466 of 503
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13 Those who strongly disagree Those who strongly disagreed expressed the following views: Concerns about Traffic and Infrastructure: Code: TRAFFIC_INFRA • Concerns are raised regarding potential traffic congestion, safety risks, and existing infrastructure inadequacies, exacerbated by the proposed construction of additional schools. Desire for Comprehensive Education Facilities: Code: COMBINED_SCHOOL • Respondents advocate for the construction of a larger super-school or campus that includes nursery, primary, and secondary education to meet both current and future educational needs. Call for Long-term Planning: Code: PLANNING_ISSUES • Respondents emphasize the importance of long-term planning to address both primary and secondary education needs, alongside broader community priorities and future population growth. Criticism of Past Planning Decisions: Code: GOV_QUEST • There is widespread criticism of past planning decisions, particularly regarding the failure to anticipate the need for sufficient school capacity. Question 9: To what extent do you agree the school should be built on the proposed 8.5-acre site at the north end of Craigton Drive? 815 respondents completed this question. 172 (21%) respondents strongly agree with the site proposed for the primary school, 151 (19%) agree, 161 (20%) indicate they neither agree nor disagree, 127 (16%) respondents disagree with the site, with a further 204 (25%) who strongly disagree. (>1%) 3 respondents left this box blank. Page 467 of 503
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14 Chart 1: shows the support for the new school on the proposed site: Chart 2: shows the same data, but with the strongly agree and agree figures grouped, and the disagree and strongly disagree figures also grouped: Question 10: Can you tell us the reason for your answer [to Question 9]? 702 respondents completed this question. This was the section where there was most divergence of opinion, reflecting the answer to the previous question. 172 151 164 127 204 Support for School on Proposed Craigton Drive Site Strongly Agree Agree Neither Disagree Strongly Disagree 323 331 164 Combined Agree/Strongly Agree and Disagree/Strongly Disagree with Neither Agree & Strongly Disagree Neither Agree nor Disagree Disagree & Stongly Disagree Page 468 of 503
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15 The qualitative analysis showed that there were a number of key issues. We used this analysis to quantify the number of respondents across the Likert scale. Many responses covered more than one of these issues. For this reason we have drawn out the 4 key issues and analysed the number of responses that covered each of them. It is worth noting that, because one response may mention both the traffic issue and the desire for a new high school the number of times each issue is cited is greater than the total number of responses received. For methodological reasons it is worth considering these responses in each relevant category. So, for instance a response that reads “we need to build a new school as soon as possible, but the traffic concerns for the proposed site need to be considered” counts as both ‘new school’ and ‘traffic’. Where someone has left the text fields blank their response is covered by the count on the Strongly Agree-Strongly Disagree scale, but not in this analysis. Where comment fall outwith the terms being sought here, the response is not counted. Other issues that were raised in the textual fields are considered through a qualitative analysis. Given the split on the question of whether the proposed site was appropriate, this analysis is undertaken on the response to that question. The categories below cluster responses around the following arguments: New school: those who believe any or all of the following – a new school should be built as soon as possible on the site recommended. High school: those who believe any or all of the following – that there should be secondary provision, a joint campus, provision for young people from the ages of 3-17 or 18. Traffic: those who believe any or all of the following – that the site will have a notable impact on traffic, that this needs to be managed, that there are safety concerns, that access needs to be considered, that there will be an impact on parking. Facilities: those who believe any or all of the following – that the facilities proposed for the site have a significant impact on the appropriateness of the site. Governance: those who believe any or all of the following – that previous mistakes are significant in their view of the current decision, that there are Page 469 of 503
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16 questions about the competence of Renfrewshire Council to make decisions; or that they regretted past mistakes by the Council. Strongly Agree Agree Neither Disagree Strongly Disagree Total New school 122 71 25 2 0 220 High School 4 6 11 16 20 57 Traffic 19 14 27 66 157 283 Facilities 0 0 3 0 4 7 Governance 2 4 8 6 19 39 Total: 147 95 74 90 198 Those who strongly agree Community Consensus on Location: Code: NEW_SCHOOL_LOCATION • Respondents who strongly agreed advocate for a central location within Dargavel, highlighting the site's proximity to existing infrastructure, safety for children, and minimal disruption to green spaces. The consensus favours a site council-owned and already earmarked for development. Urgent Need for a New Primary School: Code: INSUF_CAPACITY • There is a pressing need for a new primary school in the town to accommodate the growing population and sustain future families. Suggestions point towards locating it at either end of Dargavel, emphasizing the importance of accessibility and minimizing congestion. Practical Considerations and Timeliness: Code: TRAFFIC_INFRA • Concerns about traffic congestion and safety lead to a preference for two separate schools, to evenly distribute foot traffic and minimize disruption. The urgency to begin construction to meet demand by 2027 is emphasised, with little appetite for prolonged debate on alternative sites. Community Integration and Accessibility: Page 470 of 503
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17 CODE: NEW_SCHOOL_LOCATION • Respondents stress the importance of community integration and accessibility, advocating for schools within walking distance for most families and offering amenities beyond educational facilities. The proposed site is seen as suitable for these objectives. Support for Current Proposal: CODE: NEW_SCHOOL_LOCATION CODE: INSUF_CAPACITY • The current proposal for the new school site garners widespread support, with residents citing factors such as proximity to existing schools, accessibility, and ease of transport for catchment areas. Emphasis is placed on the need to act swiftly and efficiently to address the shortage of primary school places. Opposition to Alternative Sites: CODE: NEW_SCHOOL_LOCATION • Opposition is expressed towards alternative sites, particularly those encroaching on green spaces or located outside Dargavel, citing concerns about accessibility and community cohesion. Suggestions favour sites within the development itself. Those who agree Those who agree expressed the following positions, Mixed Opinions and Uncertainty: CODE: NEW_SCHOOL_LOCATION CODE: INSUF_CAPACITY • Some express strong preferences or concerns, while others lack information or feel indifferent. • Lack of alternative options and urgency to address school capacity shortage emphasized. Desired School Features: Code: COMBINED_SCHOOL • Suggestions for accommodating future population growth. Page 471 of 503
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18 • Advocacy for a shared campus model integrating primary and secondary education. • Concerns about space, facilities, nursery provisions, and high school requirements. Community Impact: CODE: NEW_SCHOOL_LOCATION CODE: INSUF_CAPACITY • Respondents express worries about noise, traffic, and child safety. • There is a strong desire for quick construction to address educational needs. Site Selection Considerations: CODE: TRAFFIC_INFRA • Respondents prioritize population density, road network, and accessibility. • Some suggest relying on professional guidance for decision-making. • Due diligence and consultation with roads managers deemed necessary. CODE: TRAFFIC_INFRA • Concerns raised about potential traffic congestion, especially on busy main roads. • Proper planning for road infrastructure, parking, and pedestrian pathways essential. Those who neither agree nor disagree Traffic and Infrastructure Concerns: CODE: TRAFFIC_INFRA • Respondents express concerns about potential traffic congestion, especially given the already busy main road in the area. • Proper planning for road infrastructure, parking facilities, and pedestrian pathways is highlighted as crucial to mitigate traffic issues and ensure safe access to the school. Page 472 of 503
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19 Community Impact: Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS • Some respondents express worries about the impact of the new school's location on the community, including noise levels, traffic congestion, and safety for children. • There's a desire for the school to be built quickly to address the pressing need for additional educational facilities in the area. Mixed Opinions and Uncertainty: Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS Code: INSUF_CAPACITY • While some respondents note strong preferences or concerns about the proposed site, others admit to not having enough information or feeling indifferent about the location. • The lack of alternative options and the urgency of addressing the shortage of school capacity in the area are recurring themes in the responses. Desired Features of the School: CODE: COMBINED_SCHOOL • Suggestions are made for the school to accommodate future population growth, with some advocating for a shared campus model that includes both primary and secondary education facilities. • Concerns are raised about the adequacy of space and facilities, particularly regarding nursery provisions and high school requirements. Considerations for Site Selection: CODE: NEW_SCHOOL_LOCATION • Respondents emphasise that the most important factors are population density, road network, and access when selecting a site for a new school. • Some respondents suggested that decisions should be guided by professionals and experience rather than relying solely on input from residents who may lack relevant expertise. • Due diligence, including consultation with relevant experts, is thought necessary to ensure the chosen location is suitable in terms of size and accessibility. Page 473 of 503
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20 Those who disagree Those who disagreed expressed the following concerns. It is worth noting that many of them are contradictory, with some disagreement coming from the proximity to the existing school and some from the lack of proximity to the current school. The strongest concern was about traffic. Location Concerns: Code: NEW_SCHOOL_LOCATION Code: TRAFFIC_INFRA • Concerns are expressed about the proposed site's proximity to the existing Dargavel Primary School, highlighting potential traffic issues and safety concerns. Some want the existing school to be extended, rather than a new school built. • Respondents worry about increased traffic congestion, particularly during school drop-off and pick-up times, citing existing traffic problems in the area. • Concerns are raised about the ability of local roads to handle the increased volume of traffic, with some suggesting that the roads are already too narrow. • Respondents living near the proposed site express concerns about potential noise and disruption caused by the new school. • Some respondents believe that the proposed site lacks suitable access and road infrastructure to accommodate the new school. • Respondents suggest that there are better alternative sites available for the new school, which would address traffic and safety concerns more effectively. • Need for a joint nursery, primary and high school: Respondents advocate for a more comprehensive approach to planning, including consideration of nursery, primary, and secondary school facilities on larger campuses. • Concerns are raised about the potential impact of the new school on property values in the surrounding area. • Some express disappointment that the proposed school site encroaches on green space originally designated as a nature park. • Concerns are raised about the need for remediation of the proposed site before construction can begin, potentially leading to delays in the project timeline. Traffic Management and Safety: Code: TRAFFIC_INFRA • Respondents express concerns about the safety of children due to increased traffic and congestion around the proposed school site. Page 474 of 503
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21 • There is a lack of a comprehensive traffic management plan to address the anticipated increase in traffic volume. • Concerns are raised about the safety of pedestrians, particularly children walking to and from school, given the expected increase in traffic. • Respondents want to divert traffic away from residential areas and create dedicated routes for school traffic to minimize disruption. Council Planning and Consultation: Code: GOV_QUEST • Some respondents feel that there has been insufficient consultation and consideration of alternative options for the new school site. • Criticisms are directed towards the council's decision-making process, with some suggesting that cost-saving measures have outweighed community benefits. • Concerns are raised about the prioritisation of the project timeline over comprehensive planning and consultation, particularly regarding the needs of families in the community. • Some feel that the proposal has been rushed without adequate consideration of alternative sites and their implications. Infrastructure and Access: Code: TRAFFIC_INFRA • Some respondents advocate for improvements to local infrastructure, including road widening and pavement construction, to accommodate increased traffic and ensure pedestrian safety. • Suggestions are made to ensure that the new school facilities are accessible by foot or bicycle and incorporate energy-efficient design principles. • Concerns are raised about the impact of increased traffic on local roads and the ability of existing infrastructure to handle the additional load. • Criticisms are directed towards the limited access points to the proposed site, which may exacerbate traffic congestion and safety concerns. Long-Term Planning: Code: COMBINED_SCHOOL • Advocacy for a long-term approach to educational planning to future- proof against population growth and changing community needs. Page 475 of 503
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22 • Suggestions for long-term school planning that considers nursery, primary, and secondary school facilities on larger campuses to streamline access and resources. • Calls for the prioritization of community needs over short-term cost- saving measures in educational planning decisions. Educational Planning: Code: COMBINED_SCHOOL • Respondents want secondary school facilities in addition to primary school facilities to address future educational needs. • Suggestions are made to incorporate community facilities such as sports facilities and meeting spaces into the school campus to benefit the wider community. • Some argue for a more forward-thinking approach to educational planning to accommodate future population growth and prevent overcrowding in existing schools. Community Impact: Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS • Concerns are raised about the potential division within the community caused by the new school, particularly if children from the same family are attending different schools. • Some express concerns about the potential devaluation of properties in the surrounding area due to the presence of the new school and associated traffic congestion. • Respondents living near the proposed site worry about the disruption to their daily routines and quality of life caused by increased traffic and noise. • Suggestions are made to incorporate community facilities into the new school campus to benefit residents beyond the school community. Environmental Impact: Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS • Disappointment is expressed over the loss of green space originally designated for a nature park, which some feel should have been preserved. Page 476 of 503
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23 • Concerns are raised about the challenges and potential delays associated with remediating the proposed site before construction can begin. • Concerns are expressed about the impact of construction and increased human activity on local wildlife habitats and biodiversity. Those who strongly disagree Those who strongly disagreed with the site proposed gave the following reasons. By far the most common concerns are those relating to traffic. Traffic Management and Infrastructure: Code: TRAFFIC_INFRA • Addressing traffic management concerns, proposals include splitting traffic flow and enhancing infrastructure such as wider roads and additional entry/exit points to ease congestion in the village. Location Preference and Justification: Code: COMBINED_SCHOOL • Those who strongly disagreed with the siting prefer Site 22 or 23 for a 3- 18 campus, aiming to address the educational needs adequately. Concerns are expressed regarding traffic congestion and property values necessitating consideration of alternative locations, some suggesting sites further away from existing schools to manage traffic and integrate the community effectively. Critiques of Current Consultation Process: Code: GOV_QUEST • There was criticism of the consultation process, which does not include high school provision. Other Suggestions: Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS Code: NEW_SCHOOL_LOCATION Code: TRAFFIC_INFRA Page 477 of 503
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24 • Various site proposals are made, considering factors such as community-driven decision-making, safety, and minimizing disruption. Some respondents favoured a Park Mains High School extension and preference for extending Dargavel Primary also feature, emphasizing long-term educational planning and community integration. Community Integration and Facility Accessibility: Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS • Suggestions involve creating shared campus facilities and ensuring accessibility for residents, emphasizing the importance of nearby amenities and sufficient parking facilities for staff, visitors, and parents. Environmental and Future Planning: Code: GOV_QUEST • Recommendations include utilizing greenfield and brownfield sites, emphasizing long-term planning to accommodate potential secondary school expansion and evolving community demographics, while avoiding hasty decisions driven solely by cost. Cost Considerations and Planning Transparency: Code: GOV_QUEST • Concerns about cost-effectiveness prompt calls for transparent planning processes and independent evaluation of sites, advocating for informed decision-making and consideration of alternatives like expanding existing schools. Question 11: If you don’t believe the new school should be built on the proposed site, what is your suggested alternative and why? 422 respondents answered this question. Of these 35 responded with ‘N/A’. 12.7% of respondents specifically suggested an alternative site. Those who responded raise the following issues: General Concerns and suggestions • Community members express the need for a holistic approach to school planning, emphasizing the necessity of considering both primary and secondary education facilities. Page 478 of 503
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25 • There are concerns regarding the adequacy of community engagement and transparency in the consultation processes. Suggestions include improving communication and ensuring more inclusive participation. • The potential traffic congestion and infrastructure inadequacy due to the new school constructions are frequently highlighted. Primary School Concerns • Residents are worried about the capacity of the proposed new primary school and its location, stressing that it might not be sufficient to handle the growing population. • There are apprehensions about the environmental impact, increased traffic, and disruption to the community due to school construction. Secondary School Needs • Urgent need for a new secondary school to accommodate the increasing number of children, with many calling for a community campus that includes primary through secondary education. • Concerns about overcrowding at Park Mains and other existing schools, with fears that they won't be able to accommodate future student populations effectively. Proposals for Community Campus • Responses advocate for a community campus approach, integrating primary, secondary, and recreational facilities to serve both educational needs and community use. • Calls for long-term, forward-thinking planning that looks beyond immediate needs to address future generations' requirements. Environmental and Safety Issues • Points are raised about the environmental impact of additional constructions and the need for sustainable, eco-friendly building practices. • There are numerous mentions of safety concerns related to traffic and the accessibility of schools, especially for young children and those with special needs. Question 12: To what extent do you agree with the proposed catchment area for the existing Dargavel Primary School and the new school? Page 479 of 503
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26 811 respondents answered this question. 44% (357) respondents strongly agree or agree with the proposed catchment (99 strongly agreed and 258 agreed), 43.6% (354) did not express a preference and neither agree or disagree, and 12% (100) respondents disagree or strongly disagree (49 disagree and 51 strongly disagree). Question 13: Can you tell us the reason for your answer [to Question 12]? 452 respondents answered this question. Of those 15 responded with ‘N/A’, or ‘no’. The responses demonstrated a desire for clarity and fairness. Many respondents emphasized the importance of transparency and community involvement in the decision-making process regarding catchment areas, highlighting the need for clear communication and consideration of all stakeholders' perspectives. There were some concerns about social cohesion, accessibility, and the long- term effects of dividing the village into separate catchment areas indicating a broader interest in community well-being beyond just logistical aspects. Positive Feedback: Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS • Some respondents expressed contentment with the proposed catchment areas due to their personal circumstances, such as having children already attending one of the schools or foreseeing their younger children attending the same school as their older siblings. Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS • Many respondents found the proposed catchment areas to be logical based on geographic considerations, housing density, and the overall size of Dargavel. They believe the split makes sense for the community and facilitates walking to school. Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS • Several respondents indicated general satisfaction or acceptance with the proposed catchment areas, even though they may not have strong opinions on the matter. Page 480 of 503
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27 Neutral Feedback: Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS • Some respondents stated that the catchment areas did not directly affect them or their families, leading to a neutral stance on the issue. Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS • Others expressed uncertainty or the need for more details before forming a strong opinion. Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS • A few respondents acknowledged their lack of involvement or relevance to the catchment area decision due to factors such as not living in Dargavel or not having children attending primary school. Negative Feedback: Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS • Some respondents expressed concerns about the proposed division of the village into separate catchment areas, fearing potential animosity, rivalry, or social divides among residents and children attending different schools. Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS • Some respondents disagreed with the proposed catchment areas, citing issues such as unfairness, inconvenience, or the need for alternative solutions, including a single catchment area for the entire village. Code: GOV_QUEST • A few respondents criticized the decision-making process, questioning the rationale behind the proposed catchment areas, the timing of the consultation, and the perceived lack of consideration for community needs and preferences. Question 14 If you have any other suggestions, ideas, issues or concerns about the proposed school, its location and/or catchment please detail those here Page 481 of 503
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28 478 respondents answered this question. This question provided an opportunity for respondents to air any other concerns, suggestions and comments. Responses are analysed and summarised below: Overall Lack of Trust in Renfrewshire Council: Code: GOV_QUEST • Distrust due to previous error and perceived lack of transparency and accountability. • Concerns about decisions being made without genuine community consultation. • Previous mistakes by the council have eroded trust. Primary School Provision: Code: NEW_SCHOOL_LOCATION • Need for a new primary school due to overcrowding and lack of planning. • Concerns about the proposed location and timing of the new school. • Suggestions to split Bishopton Primary School's capacity more effectively. • Request for football pitches with floodlights for school and community use. Secondary School Provision: Code: COMBINED_SCHOOL • Lack of secondary school provision in Bishopton/Dargavel area. • Concerns about overcrowding and adequacy of Park Mains High School. • Calls for a new secondary school or expansion of Gryffe High School. Community Campus and Facilities: Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS • Suggestions for a campus model including nursery, primary, and high school. • Need for safe access routes, adequate parking, and traffic management around schools. • Requests for more amenities and facilities for children in the area. Council Decision Making and Planning: Page 482 of 503
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29 Code: GOV_QUEST • Criticisms of Renfrewshire Council's handling of education planning. • Accusations of ignoring community input and pushing through predetermined plans. • Calls for dismissal of those responsible for past mistakes and proactive planning for the future. Data and Consultation Process: Code: GOV_QUEST • Concerns about the accuracy and transparency of data used by the council. • Allegations of selective use of data to support predetermined outcomes. • Requests for comprehensive consultation including input from parent councils. Traffic and Infrastructure: Code: TRAFFIC_INFRA • Worries about increased traffic congestion and parking issues. • Calls for safe walking and cycling routes for children. • Need for improved traffic management to ensure safety around schools. Long-Term Planning and Future Needs: Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS Code: COMBINED_SCHOOL • Urgency for long-term solutions that anticipate future population growth. • There were a number of requests for Catholic school provision in Dargavel • Suggestions for holistic planning considering all age groups from nursery to high school. • Concerns about the impact of current decisions on future generations and the community's viability. Page 483 of 503
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30 Quality of Education and School Environment: Code: EDUCATION_QUALITY • Concerns about the quality of education in overcrowded schools. • Requests for appropriate learning environments, including classrooms and facilities. • Opposition to open-plan school designs and preference for traditional classrooms. Email submissions Summary of Feedback There were 15 emailed submissions by email from 13 individuals which are separate to the online questionnaire. One individual submitted 3 responses. One individual had also completed the survey. These were analysed separately because it cannot be ascertained whether the respondents also responded to the survey. Preferences have not been added to the overall tallies, with the exception of respondent 2 who returned the only paper survey. Initial Concerns and Transparency Issues Code: GOV_QUEST • Email respondent 1: Expresses appreciation for the council's efforts but raises concerns about transparency and detailed planning, highlighting potential biases in the proposal. • Email respondent 2: Urges long-term planning, especially considering population growth, and suggests a broader approach encompassing community needs and future infrastructure. • Email respondent 3: Expresses disappointment in short-sighted planning decisions, advocating for a more comprehensive approach. Site Selection and Community Impact Code: NEW_SCHOOL_LOCATION • Email respondent 2: Supports the proposed site within Dargavel for minimizing impact on greenfield areas and emphasizes the need for infrastructure within the designated development area. • Email respondent 2: Echoes the sentiment for the school to be situated within Dargavel, citing responsibilities of Renfrewshire Council and developers to support the growing community. Page 484 of 503
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31 • Email respondent 4: Opposes the proposed site due to concerns about wildlife, noise, and traffic impact, suggesting a reconsideration of alternative locations. High School Provision and Community Engagement Code: COMBINED_SCHOOL • Email respondent 5: Criticizes past planning decisions and expresses concerns about the consultation process, calling for accountability and improved engagement. • Email respondent 6: Raises concerns about high school capacity and urges thorough consideration of secondary school provision alongside primary school planning. • Email respondent 7: Expresses interest in contributing to the consultation remotely due to travel commitments, but makes no substantive contribution. Infrastructure and Special Needs Support Code: EDUCATION_QUALITY • Email respondent 8: Highlights the need for adequate support for children with additional needs and suggests addressing existing issues before proceeding with new infrastructure. • Email respondent 9: Recommends considerations for classroom design, outdoor spaces, accessibility, and facilities for children with additional needs. • Email respondent 10: Advocates for equal consideration of existing residents' amenity and raises concerns about light and noise pollution from the proposed school site. • Email respondent 11: Advocates for a smaller new school and proposes extending Bishopton Primary instead to secure its long-term future. • Email respondent 12: Expresses frustration with the consultation process and criticizes the council's handling of high school provision, advocating for better solutions for children's education. Sports Facilities and Stakeholder Engagement Code: PLANNING_ISSUES • Email respondent 13: Seeks confirmation on plans for a floodlit football pitch adjacent to the new primary school, emphasizing the importance of sports facilities. Page 485 of 503
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32 • Email respondent 5: Calls for clarity on the proposed extension of Park Mains High School and highlights concerns raised by stakeholders regarding high school provision. Specific Site Concerns and Personal Impact Code: RESIDENTIAL_IMPACT • Email respondent 4: Voices concerns about the proximity of the proposed school site to residential areas and potential negative impacts on wildlife, noise, and traffic. • Email respondent 3: Expresses disappointment in short-sighted planning decisions and urges consideration of long-term impacts on children's education and community well-being Cross analysis The key questions in the questionnaire that can be analysed quantitively relate to attitudes toward a new school and toward the proposed site. Therefore, this cross analysis allows the interdependency of individual responses to be considered. To do this there was an analysis of positivity towards building school and positivity towards school site. The number of those strongly agreeing with the school being built and strongly agreeing with the site was the single largest group – a plurality. The second largest group were those who agreed with the proposal to build the school, but disagreed with the site. A significant group strongly agreed that the school should be built but neither agreed nor disagreed with the proposed site. You can see in the chart below that the strongest poles of opinion are around those who strongly support the site and those who are strongly against the site. Taking those who support the site and those who support it strongly gives almost identical numbers when compared to those who do disagree or strongly disagree with the site. 323 respondents support, 331 oppose it. The difference amounts to 1% of the respondents. Page 486 of 503
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33 This data is replicated in the following table: Key: School ++: Strongly Agree with proposal to build primary school School +: Agree with proposal to build primary school School +/-:: Neither Agree nor Disagree with proposal to build primary school D: Disagree with proposal to build primary school E: Strongly Disagree with proposal to build primary school F: No opinion expressed 1: Strongly Agree it should be on the proposed site 2: Agree it should be on the proposed site 3: Neither Agree nor Disagree it should be on the proposed site 4: Disagree it should be on the proposed site 5: Strongly disagree it should be on the proposed site 6: No opinion expressed 157 123 124 84 129 1 10 24 23 20 18 1 1 2 8 8 6 0 1 2 3 12 10 0 2 0 3 3 41 0 0 50 100 150 200 250 Strongly Support Site Support Site Neither Against Site Strongly Against Site No opinion Support for School Build vs Support for Proposed Site Very Strong Support for School Build Strong Support for School Build Neither Against School Build Very Against School Build No Opinion School ++ School + School +/- School - School - - School 0 Site ++ 157 10 1 1 2 0 Site + 123 24 2 2 0 0 Site +/- 124 23 8 3 3 0 Site - 84 20 8 12 3 0 Site - - 129 18 6 10 41 0 Site 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 Page 487 of 503
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34 Strongly Agree with proposal to build primary school: 156 of those who strongly agree with the proposal to build the school strongly agree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 123 of those who strongly agree with the proposal to build the school agree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 124 of those who strongly agree with the proposal to build the school neither agree nor disagree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 84 of those who strongly agree with the proposal to build the school disagree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 129 of those who strongly agree with the proposal to build the school strongly disagree it should be on the 8.5 acre site 1 of those who strongly agree with the proposal to build the school expressed no opinion about whether it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified Agree with the proposal to build the primary school: 10 of those who agree with the proposal to build the school strongly agree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 24 of those who agree with the proposal to build the school agree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 23 of those who agree with the proposal to build the school neither agree nor disagree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 20 of those who agree with the proposal to build the school disagree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 18 of those who agree with the proposal to build the school strongly disagree it should be on the 8.5 acre site 1 of those who agree with the proposal to build the school expressed no opinion about whether it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified Neither Agree nor Disagree with the proposal to build the primary school: 1 of those who neither agree nor disagree with the proposal to build the school strongly agrees it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified Page 488 of 503
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35 2 of those who neither agree nor disagree with the proposal to build the school agree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 8 of those who neither agree nor disagree with the proposal to build the school neither agree nor disagree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 8 of those who neither agree nor disagree with the proposal to build the school disagree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 6 of those who neither agree nor disagree with the proposal to build the school strongly disagree it should be on the 8.5 acre site 0 of those who neither agree nor disagree with the proposal to build the school expressed no opinion about whether it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified Disagrees with the proposal to build the primary school: 1 of those who disagree with the proposal to build the school strongly agrees it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 2 of those who disagree with the proposal to build the school agree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 3 of those who disagree with the proposal to build the school neither agree nor disagree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 12 of those who disagree with the proposal to build the school disagree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 10 of those who disagree with the proposal to build the school strongly disagree it should be on the 8.5 acre site 0 of those who disagree with the proposal to build the school expressed no opinion about whether it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified Strongly Disagrees with the proposal to build the primary school: 2 of those who strongly disagree with the proposal to build the school strongly agree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 0 of those who strongly disagree with the proposal to build the school agree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified Page 489 of 503
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36 3 of those who strongly disagree with the proposal to build the school neither agree nor disagree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 3 of those who strongly disagree with the proposal to build the school disagree it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified 41 of those who strongly disagree with the proposal to build the school strongly disagree it should be on the 8.5 acre site 0 of those who neither agree nor disagree with the proposal to build the school expressed no opinion about whether it should be on the 8.5 acre site identified No opinion on whether to build the primary school 1 respondent who expressed no opinion about whether the school should be built strongly agreed that it should be built on the 8.5 acre site. Conclusion The consultation itself was limited to consideration of a new primary school for Dargavel, and the responses indicate overwhelming support for a new primary school. There were slightly fewer respondents who agreed with the proposed site of the school than those who disagreed. Those who disagreed with the proposed site identified several different reasons for their objections. The main objection to the proposed site focused on traffic, parking and other road infrastructure issues. Objections to Renfrewshire Council’s approach to delivering the current Dargavel Primary School and the current process were also identified, as were concerns about the Council’s strategic planning and governance oversight. Other objections – relating to high school provision, are out of scope of this consultation. The question of the catchment area will be determined by whether to proceed with the school or not, and if so, which site to use. Page 490 of 503
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37 Annex: Codeframe Insufficient Capacity of Current School • Code: INSUF_CAPACITY • Example: "The current school has no space." Governance questions about Renfrewshire Council • Code: GOV_QUEST • Example: " Far too many children in existing primary’s due to past mistakes with planning which requires immediate action to correct. Traffic and Infrastructure Concerns • Code: TRAFFIC_INFRA • Example: "Craigton Drive is already incredibly busy... The influx of traffic will render the whole estate as a giant traffic jam." Overcrowding and Overcapacity • Code: OVERCROWDING • Example: " Dargavel primary is at full capacity and the council need to accommodate the children affected for the future house builds." Location and Placement of New School • Code: NEW_SCHOOL_LOCATION • Example: "I agree that a new school is required but believe this should be built outside Dargavel, in Bishopton." Community Impact and Needs • Code: COMMUNITY_NEEDS • Example: " The school should be built in the most suitable location and the needs of the whole of Bishopton should be considered. Planning and Foresight Issues • Code: PLANNING_ISSUES • Example: " Be better in future at planning." Desire for Combined Primary and Secondary School • Code: COMBINED_SCHOOL • Example: "It seems prudent... to anticipate future requirements by constructing a combined primary and secondary school." Residential Impact and Expectations • Code: RESIDENTIAL_IMPACT • Example: "I moved to Dargavel... thinking that we would be able to walk our son to school... He is due to start school in 2024 and hasn’t got a place in Dargavel." Page 491 of 503
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38 Quality of Education • Code: EDUCATION_QUALITY • Example: "The current school is not big enough for the number of children... This will in turn put immense pressure on teachers and negatively impact the children's learning." Page 492 of 503
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Appendix L Summary of Key Issues Page 493 of 503
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Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010 Report by Education Scotland addressing educational aspects of the proposal by Renfrewshire Council to build a new primary school in Dargavel Village and review the catchment areas for the proposed new school and Dargavel Primary School. April 2024 Appendix M Page 494 of 503
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1 | Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010 Renfrewshire Council © Crown Copyright 1. Introduction 1.1 This report from Education Scotland has been prepared by His Majesty’s Inspectors of Education (HM Inspectors) in accordance with the terms of the Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010 (“the 2010 Act”). The purpose of the report is to provide an independent and impartial consideration of a proposal by Renfrewshire Council to build a new primary school in Dargavel Village and review the catchment areas for the proposed new school and for Dargavel Primary School. Section 2 of the report sets out brief details of the consultation process. Section 3 of the report sets out HM Inspectors’ consideration of the educational aspects of the proposal, including significant views expressed by consultees. Section 4 summarises HM Inspectors’ view. Upon receipt of this report, the Act requires the council to consider it alongside any relevant considerations the council received and then prepare its consultation report. The council’s consultation report should include this report and must contain an explanation of how, in finalising the proposal, it has reviewed the initial proposal, including a summary of points raised during the consultation process and the council’s response to them. The council has to publish its consultation report at least three weeks before it takes its final decision. With all proposals the council needs to follow all statutory obligations set out in the 2010 Act. 1.2 HM Inspectors considered: • the likely effects of the proposal for children of the schools; any other users; children likely to become pupils within two years of the date of publication of the proposal paper; and other children and young people in the council area; • any other likely effects of the proposal; • how the council intends to minimise or avoid any adverse effects that may arise from the proposal; and • the educational benefits the council believes will result from implementation of the proposal, and the council’s reasons for coming to these beliefs. 1.3 In preparing this report, HM Inspectors undertook the following activities: • attendance at public meetings held on 19 February and 5 March 2024 in connection with the council’s proposals; • attendance at a public information session on 29 February 2024; • consideration of all relevant documentation provided by the council in relation to the proposal, specifically the educational benefits statement and related consultation documents, written and oral submissions from parents and others; • consideration of further representations made directly to Education Scotland on relevant educational aspects of the proposal; and • visits to the sites of Dargavel Primary School and Bishopton Primary School, including discussion with relevant consultees. 2. Consultation process 2.1 Renfrewshire Council undertook the consultation on its proposal(s) with reference to the Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010. 2.2 The statutory consultation period for this proposal ran from 29 January until 26 March 2024. The council published the proposal paper on its website. Paper and electronic copies of the proposal paper were made available to stakeholders and interested parties. Written responses Page 495 of 503
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2 | Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010 Renfrewshire Council © Crown Copyright were accepted by letter or email. Public meetings took place on 19 February and 5 March 2024. There were 43 public attendees in total across the two meetings. The council also held several open information sessions and informal drop-in sessions for the public between the 14 and 29 February 2024. In total, around 100 people attended one or more of these sessions. There were 817 responses to the council’s questionnaire on the proposal. The majority of the respondents to the questionnaire were parents/carers of school aged children, or those that had a child attending nursery in Renfrewshire. Most respondents (88%) strongly agreed or agreed that the new primary school should be built in Dargavel Village. There is no clear consensus on the proposed site at Craigton Drive. Less than half of respondents (39%) agreed with the chosen site, while slightly more (41%) disagreed. The remaining respondents (20%) neither agreed or disagreed with the proposed site. With regards to the proposed catchment area, a minority (44%) are in favour, the same percentage (44%) neither agree nor disagree, and 12% disagree. 3. Educational aspects of proposal 3.1 HM Inspectors consider that the council has set out reasonable educational benefits for this proposal. The council estimates the completion of the Dargavel Village development by 2033. Dargavel Primary School, which opened in October 2021, was built for a pupil roll of 400. It is currently well over capacity with just over 600 children currently attending. The council’s projected figures indicate a peak in demand for around 1,130 non-denominational primary places in academic year 2033-34 in the Dargavel area. The proposed school would have capacity for 800 pupils. The main educational benefit of this proposal is that it addresses current and future capacity issues at Dargavel Primary School and Bishopton Primary School. It will enable the council to continue to provide sufficient places for children in the catchment areas covered by the proposal. The council state that the proposed catchment areas within the proposal will distribute the pressure arising from new housing development evenly across primary schools in Dargavel. The council have stated that a sibling guarantee will be put in place associated with the catchment changes. 3.2 Almost all respondents to the questionnaire, attendees at the public meetings, and stakeholders that HM Inspectors spoke to at Dargavel and Bishopton Primary Schools agree that there is a need for a new primary school. A significant minority of survey respondents and the majority of stakeholders who met with HM Inspectors do not believe that the proposed site for the new school is appropriate. Many of the stakeholders that HM Inspectors spoke to think there should be more time to consider alternative sites for the new school. However, there is currently no consensus on an alternative site. 3.3 Stakeholders raised significant concerns, both in comments on the survey and when speaking to HM Inspectors, about the volume of traffic that would result from two large primary schools being in close proximity. Stakeholders are worried that the road infrastructure is not in place to support the expected increased traffic at peak drop-off and pick-up times at the schools. Parents and children of Dargavel Primary School, that HM Inspectors spoke to, do not consider existing traffic management arrangements provide sufficient safety for children getting to the school. They believe these safety issues may increase should the proposed site be chosen. For example, children and parents say the footpath for walking and cycling to school is not sufficiently wide enough for the current Dargavel Primary School population. Therefore, they do not consider it could accommodate increased use by a second, much larger school community. If the proposal is accepted, the council will need to work with the Dargavel community to address their concerns as a priority. The council will need to ensure the suitability of the proposed site in respect of the road infrastructure and adequate safe routes, including for active travel such as walking or cycling. 3.4 The majority of parents that HM Inspectors spoke to are not confident that the council’s timescale for the construction of the new school is realistic. Stakeholders across both Dargavel Page 496 of 503
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3 | Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010 Renfrewshire Council © Crown Copyright and Bishopton Primary Schools do not want to see delays to a new school being ready for children by August 2027. They worry that there will be a detrimental impact on Dargavel and Bishopton Primary Schools if the new school is not ready in time. A number of parents that HM Inspectors spoke to in both school communities say that they feel constrained into opting for the council’s proposed site, so that their child may be assured a place at a local school. Whether the proposal is agreed or not, it will be important for the council to identify and share with stakeholders, appropriate contingency plans for all scenarios. 3.5 Children, parents and staff feel strongly that the design of the new school, and the provision of outdoor facilities for sport and physical activity, must be better than the build specification for Dargavel Primary School. The council acknowledge this and are currently making remedial adaptations to Dargavel Primary School, for example to improve soundproofing in teaching spaces. Residents in Dargavel Village, who live adjacent to the proposed school site, are concerned that the intended community use of the new school’s sports facilities will impact on the volume of traffic and natural habitat of the area. It will be important for the council, if the proposal is agreed, to continue to consult with stakeholders about the design of the new school, the facilities to be included and in considerations about the community use of the site. 3.6 A majority of stakeholders who met HM Inspectors at Bishopton Primary School stated that they wish to see further investment in their school. They appreciate that the council’s resources are limited, but they feel it is important to ensure that there is equity between all primary schools in the area. Staff and children at Bishopton Primary School have experience in welcoming and settling large numbers of new children to the school. However, they do not wish to return to Bishopton Primary School accommodating up to 700 children, as was the case when the opening of Dargavel Primary School was delayed. The majority of parents are concerned that any delay to the new school will negatively impact on the numbers of children attending Bishopton Primary School. HM Inspectors agree that it is important that all schools provide a safe and suitable learning environment for all pupils. 3.7 Almost all parents and staff who met with HM Inspectors raised significant concerns about the future capacity of Park Mains High School. This is due to the continuing expansion of Dargavel Village and other housebuilding in towns within the catchment area for the secondary school. Parents who met with HM Inspectors are worried that the council may have underestimated the projected school roll for Park Mains High School. Parents who met with HM Inspectors would like to see consideration of a 3-18 campus, instead of primary provision only. They feel that Bishopton and Dargavel should have more early learning and childcare provision. They also feel strongly that the community should have its own secondary school. The council’s projected figures are that around 1,000 young people who live in Bishopton and Dargavel will require to be transported to and from Park Mains High School each day. Parents that met with HM Inspectors do not feel that this is financially nor environmentally sound. Although outwith the scope of this consultation, it would be helpful for the council to continue to work with parents to address their concerns about secondary provision. 4. Summary HM Inspectors agree that the proposal has the potential to provide educational benefits. A new primary school should address the need for increased non-denominational primary places in Dargavel Village. Almost all stakeholders agree that there is a need for a new school. However, a significant number of stakeholders have concerns about the proposed location for the new school. They are concerned about children having access to adequate safe walking and cycling routes. They are also very worried about the potential impact of significantly increased traffic on an already congested road. Should the proposal be approved, it will be essential that the council ensure there are improved, adequate safe active routes to school. They also need to develop Page 497 of 503
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4 | Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010 Renfrewshire Council © Crown Copyright robust and viable plans to efficiently manage the significant increase in traffic that is expected. Stakeholders are also concerned about the council’s timescale for the project. If the proposal is agreed, HM Inspectors recommend the council should ensure that there are clear contingency plans in place, should there be slippage in the projected timescales for the construction and opening of the new school for August 2027. If the proposal is agreed, HM Inspectors recommend strongly that the council continue to work with stakeholders to help mitigate their valid concerns and involve them, as appropriate, in the development of the new school. HM Inspectors April 2024 Page 498 of 503
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1 ___________________________________________________________________ To: Education and Children’s Services Policy Board On: 23 May 2024 ___________________________________________________________________ Report by: Director of Children’s Services ___________________________________________________________________ Heading: Education Scotland Inspections of Renfrewshire Schools ___________________________________________________________________ 1. Summary 1.1 In academic session 2022/23, 5 primary schools and 2 secondary schools were inspected by HM Inspectors, Education Scotland as part of a national sample of education. In the current academic session 2023/24, to date, 4 primaries and 1 secondary have been inspected. 1.2 HM Inspectors of Education inspect quality and improvement of education across Scotland’s schools using specific quality indicators (QIs) and the six- point scale as set out in How good is our school? (4th edition) (HGIOS4) quality improvement framework. 1.3 There are two models for school inspections of this kind; a full model where 4 quality indicators are evaluated (see below) and a short model where only 2 of the 4 quality indicators are evaluated (QIs 2.3 and 3.2). Quality Indicator 1.3 Leadership of Change Quality Indicator 2.3 Learning, teaching and assessment. Quality Indicator 3.1 Ensuring wellbeing, equity and inclusion. Quality Indicator 3.2 Raising attainment and achievement. 1.4 Six Renfrewshire schools had a full model inspection and six had the short model. Where a school receives gradings of ‘Satisfactory’ or better, it is considered to be a positive inspection. All Renfrewshire schools inspected have received a positive inspection report. For the 12 schools inspected, the gradings were as follows: Item 14 Page 499 of 503
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2 Quality Indicator Very Good Good Satisfactory QI 1.3 Leadership of Change 83% 17% QI 2.3 Learning, teaching & assessment 33% 67% QI 3.1 Ensuring wellbeing, equity and inclusion 67% 33% QI 3.2 Raising attainment and achievement 25% 67% 8% 1.5 Comparing the Renfrewshire gradings to the national picture for session 2022/23, shows that the percentage of our schools achieving ‘Very Good’ and ‘Good’ gradings are greater than the national figures. This is particularly significant for QIs1.3 and 3.1 where the percentage of Renfrewshire schools achieving ‘Very Goods’ are more than double that of the national figure for QI 1.3 and almost double for QI 3.1. 1.6 Common strengths emerging from Renfrewshire inspection reports: • Senior leaders are effective in guiding the strategic direction and pace of change to improve outcomes for children and young people. • Staff teams know children and families well and have a good understanding of the social, economic and cultural context of the school community. • Staff teams work well together to create nurturing and inclusive learning environments where children and young people can thrive and achieve. • Children and young people are very proud of their schools and are confident and happy in school. • Staff across schools are committed to engaging in professional learning to improve learning and teaching. • Supporting and improving children’s and young people’s wellbeing continues to be a high priority. Developing emotional wellbeing and resilience is a strong focus. • Working effectively with parents and partners, staff teams provide a range of effective supports to reduce barriers to the learning of children and young people. 1.7 During inspections, HM Inspectors seek to identify highly effective practice to be shared more widely to promote improvement. In Barsail primary school, inspectors identified the following: ‘The highly effective approaches to developing staff, children’s and parents’ knowledge and understanding of the language of wellbeing and nurturing values is worth sharing more widely. The principal teacher, supported by psychological services, leads very well the high quality work promoting a consistent approach to developing very positive relationships. This translates the vision, values and aims into reality. This consistent approach to developing and promoting positive relationships is highly-effective in supporting improvement and recovery from the impact of COVID-19. Page 500 of 503
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3 All staff have developed appropriate skills successfully to support children’s social and emotional wellbeing. Staff have created an inclusive approach to teaching and learning as a result. All staff reinforce this inclusive approach in the respectful and encouraging interactions they have with children at all times. They use and model appropriate language to support children to speak openly about their feelings and resolve any disagreements when they occur.’ In St. Mary’s Primary School, inspectors identified the following: ‘Across the school, children engage very well in their learning. Lessons are motivating and challenging. Teachers plan interesting contexts for learning and throughout lessons, provide opportunities for children to learn in a variety of ways. Teachers support children very well to understand what they are learning and how they will know if they have been successful.’ 1.8 Individual inspection reports provide the detail of a variety of different next steps identified for our schools. These are being taken forward through the improvement planning process and monitored by link Education Managers through the quality improvement framework. 2. Recommendations 2.1. Members of the Education and Children’s Services Policy Board are asked to note the very positive outcomes in relation to inspections of Renfrewshire primary and secondary schools by HM Inspectors, Education Scotland, over the last 2 academic sessions. 3. Background 3.1. In Scotland, scrutiny activity is a crucial tool which supports improvement, as well as providing assurance and public accountability. The scope of Education Scotland inspection activities at a local level provides a unique evidence base drawn from observing practice at first hand across the country. 3.2. HM Inspectors of Education inspect quality and improvement of education across Scotland’s schools using the quality indicators (QIs) and the six-point scale as set out in How good is our school? (4th edition) (HGIOS4) quality improvement framework. 6-point scale Excellent - outstanding and sector-leading Very Good - major strengths and very few areas for improvement Good - important strengths within the school’s work yet there remains some aspects which require improvement . Satisfactory - strengths within this aspect of the school’s work just outweigh the weaknesses Weak - important weaknesses Unsatisfactory - major weaknesses which require immediate remedial action Page 501 of 503
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4 3.3. Following a pause to inspections due to the pandemic, Education Scotland’s routine programme of inspection of schools and early years settings resumed in September 2022. Children’s Services welcomes the process of audit undertaken by Education Scotland as supportive to continuous improvement in Renfrewshire’s education establishments. Renfrewshire schools inspected since September 2022: • Barsail PS • Cochrane Castle PS • Auchenlodment PS and ELCC • West PS and ELCC • St. Mary’s PS and ELCC • Park Mains High School • St. Benedict’s High School • Bishopton PS • St. Margaret’s PS and ELCC • Brediland PS • Williamsburgh PS and ELCC • Trinity High School ___________________________________________________________________ Implications of the Report 1. Financial – None. 2. HR & Organisational Development – None. 3. Community/Council Planning – engaging with, and learning from external inspection, ensures that our Renfrewshire is thriving. High standards of education provision ensure that children and young people are given the best start in life so that they promote and contribute to a more prosperous, fairer society. It also ensures our Renfrewshire is well – by providing an environment which encourages care, welfare and development, establishments play a crucial role in developing children and young people so that they become responsible citizens. The inspection process also supports delivery of the Council Plan cross- cutting theme of improving outcomes for children and families as well as other Council Plan key strategic outcomes, for example: Economy Equipping all children and young people to achieve success in life Fair • Creating inclusive and supportive learning environments for children and young people. • Embedding children’s rights in our decision-making processes 4. Legal – The full model inspection includes a focus on QI 3.1 Ensuring wellbeing, equity and inclusion. In evaluating this QI, one of the themes that Page 502 of 503
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5 HM Inspectors evaluate is the school’s Fulfilment of Statutory Duties related to attendance, exclusions, ASL Act and Associated Code of Practice, Bullying, Equality Act, Health and Nutrition, and Gaelic education. 5. Property/Assets - None 6. Information Technology – No implication on Information Technology. 7. Equality & Human Rights - The Recommendations contained within this report have been assessed in relation to their impact on equalities and human rights. No negative impacts on equality groups or potential for infringement of individuals’ human rights have been identified arising from the recommendations contained in the report. If required following implementation, the actual impact of the recommendations and the mitigating actions will be reviewed and monitored, and the results of the assessment will be published on the Council’s website. 8. Health & Safety – None. 9. Procurement – None. 10. Risk – None. 11. Privacy Impact – None. 12. Cosla Policy Position – N/A 13. Climate Risk – None. _________________________________________________________ List of Background Papers - Inspection reports for all the schools in Renfrewshire who have been inspected are available on the Education Scotland website Inspection and review | Education Scotland __________________________________________________________ EH/LG 19 April 2024 Author: Emma Henry, Interim Head of Education, emma.henry@renfrewshire.gov.uk Page 503 of 503