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Minute of Meeting of the Joint Negotiating Committee for Teaching Staff of 10 June 2024 for Noting

Perth and Kinross Council · 23 October 2024
Back to Learning and Families Committee — 23 October 2024 and its agenda

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JOINT NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE FOR TEACHING STAFF 
Minute of hybrid meeting of the Joint Negotiating Committee for Teaching Staff
(JNCT) held in Meeting Room 10/11, Pullar House, Perth on Monday 10 June 2024
at 2.30pm. 
Present: Representing Perth and Kinross Council 
Councillors J Rebbeck and G Stewart (substituting for S Carr);
S Devlin, J Donnelly, G Doogan, F Mackay, D Macluskey and
P Smith (all Economy, Place and Learning); P Johnstone
(Strategy, People and Resources). 
Representing Teachers’ Associations
L Gibb, L J Grant, M Laurie and C Weston (all EIS); M Mackie
(SSTA); Shaun Topen-Cooper (NASUWT) 
In Attendance: K Robertson (up to Item 9), B Martin-Scott (Economy, Place
and Learning); A McAuley, Joint Secretary (Teachers’ Side);
J Guild for Joint Secretary (Management Side). 
Apologies: Councillor C Shiers, A Dickinson, J Leslie, C Rose and
M Taylor. 
Councillor J Rebbeck, Convener, Presiding. 
1. APPOINTMENT OF CONVENER 
Nominations were sought for the Appointment of Convener from the
Management Side.  Councillor G Stewart, seconded by S Devlin, nominated
Councillor J Rebbeck.  There being no other nominations, Councillor J Rebbeck was
duly appointed as Convener of the Joint Negotiating Committee for Teaching Staff
for the Management Side for a period of two years. 
COUNCILLOR J REBBECK, CONVENER, TOOK THE CHAIR. 
2. APPOINTMENT OF VICE-CONVENER 
Nominations were sought for the Appointment of Vice-Convener from the
Teaching Side.  A McAuley, seconded by M Laurie, nominated L Gibb.  There being
no other nominations, L Gibb was duly appointed as Vice Convener of the Joint
Negotiating Committee for Teaching Staff for the Teaching Side for a period of two
years. 
3. WELCOME AND APOLOGIES 
Councillor J Rebbeck welcomed those present to the meeting and apologies
for absence were noted as above. 
4. DECLARATIONS OF INTEREST (ELECTED MEMBERS ONLY) 
There were no Declarations of Interest made in terms of the Councillors’ Code
of Conduct.

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5.  MINUTE OF MEETING OF THE JOINT NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE FOR
TEACHING STAFF OF 4 MARCH 2024 FOR APPROVAL 
The minute of meeting of the Joint Negotiating Committee for Teaching Staff
of 4 March 2023 was submitted and approved as a correct record. 
6. MATTERS ARISING 
(i) Pauline Smith was duly appointed to the vacancy of Primary Representative
for the Management Side of the Joint Negotiating Committee for Teaching
Staff. 
(ii) Fiona Mackay was duly appointed to the vacancy of Officer for the
Management Side of the Joint Negotiating Committee for Teaching Staff. 
7. EMPLOYEE SURVEY UPDATE 
P Johnstone, Corporate HR Manager, provided an update to members on the
Employee Survey which closed on 31 May 2024. P Johnstone extended her thanks
to the Unions for their contribution to the design of the survey questions and
promoting with their members to complete.  P Johnstone advised engagement has
increased since the last employee survey, from 27% to 47%, and analysis of results
is ongoing.  Full results and guidance for discussion with teams will be shared later
this month and this should aid discussions to establish actions locally.  P Johnstone
emphasised the importance of follow up to ensure meaningful use of the responses
submitted is evident amongst staff. 
C Weston reiterated the importance of staff being able to see the impact of
change from their input to the survey, and in turn the impact this will hopefully have
on completion engagement for future surveys. 
The Committee noted the update. 
8. FAIR WORK ACTIVITY 
There was submitted a report by the Corporate HR Manager (G/24/69)
regarding Fair Work Activity.  P Johnstone advised Fair Work First is a Scottish
Government statement and criteria which Committee are asked to support following
agreement by Finance and Resources Committee in November 2023. 
C Weston provided feedback on the statement and criteria and requested due
consideration be given to a review of increasing facility time aligning with other local
authorities, and asked that links to the zero tolerance for bullying and harassment for
staff be included. 
In response to a question from C Weston regarding part time working for
teaching staff, P Johnstone advised all staff can apply for flexible working
arrangements from day one of employment and each application is dealt with on a
case by case basis. 
In response to a question from M Mackie regarding termination of contracts at
23 months, P Johnstone confirmed Fair Work First relates specifically to the

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Council’s use of casual and supply contracts which is up to 12 weeks only, as fixed
term arrangements would then apply. 
The Committee noted the contents of G/24/69. 
9. SCHOOL TERMS AND HOLIDAY DATES 2025/26 AND 2026/27 
There was submitted a report by the Service Manager, Business Services
(G/24/70) seeking the views of the Joint Negotiating Committee for Teaching Staff on
the proposals for the School Terms and Holiday Dates for 2025/26 and 2026/27.  In
introducing the report, K Robertson, Service Manager, Business Services, advised
the dates have been compiled following consultation, with presentation to the Joint
Negotiating Committee for Teaching Staff being the final consultation prior to
submission to Learning and Families Committee in August.  K Robertson
acknowledged the requirement for an inservice day in Term 4 has attracted some
differing views, but advised this is a complex term with SQA dates to be taken into
account.  K Robertson advised commitment has been given to Good Friday and
Easter Monday and May Day remaining as school holidays for 2025/26 and 2026/27
and confirmed there will remain the right to apply to the Scottish
Government for exceptional closure days as required. 
C Weston advised it would be preferable to have an inservice day on each
day of the working week throughout the year for the benefit of part time pro rata staff. 
In response, K Robertson advised it has been agreed it is not beneficial to have an
inservice day midweek and there have been ongoing requests for inservice days to
be attached to other holidays as far as is possible.  K Robertson advised in the
current draft all working days have been covered with the exception of Tuesday, and
this can be reviewed before the final draft is submitted to Learning and Families
Committee in August. 
The Committee noted the contents of G/24/70. 
10. TEACHERS AGREEMENT FOR THE 21ST CENTURY – GUIDANCE TO
SCHOOLS 2024/25 
There was submitted a Report (G/24/71), providing the Guidance to Schools
on the 35 hour working week and continuing professional development.  In
introducing the report, G Doogan advised this is updated guidance on Working Time
Agreements with no changes to the previous version content, with the exception of
dates. 
In response to a request from L J Grant to have the guidance around March,
G Doogan agreed this would be possible and will move planning forward for future
years. 
The Committee noted the contents of G/24/71. 
11. SUITE OF GUIDANCE TO SUPPORT SCHOOLS 
S Devlin advised a Suite of Guidance is being developed following an
identified need for existing guidance to be reviewed in relation to weapons, assaults
and drugs and alcohol.  The suite will be designed to address areas of commonality

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and provide clear, succinct guidance which will be easily accessible and in place for
the start of 2024/25 terms. 
Input from Health, Police Scotland and Community Safety colleagues has
been received to date, and C Weston confirmed she will be inputting on behalf of
Trade Unions and extended her thanks for the opportunity to do so. 
S Devlin also confirmed the Critical Incidents Protocol on Eric will be updated,
if required, in conjunction with the new guidance. 
Councillor J Rebbeck extended his thanks to those involved with this work. 
The Committee noted the update. 
12. PROFESSIONAL LEARNING, LEADERSHIP AND DEVELOPMENT
UPDATE MAY 2024 
There was submitted a report by the Service Manager (Early Years and
Childcare) (G/24/72).  In introducing the report, B Martin-Scott advised the new
learning library is now live and forms part of the ECS Learning Hub.  Users can
electronically request to take out books for personal or group use which will be
delivered to schools.  B Martin-Scott advised any ideas for new books are welcomed. 
B Martin-Scott also confirmed plans to re-establish the Probationer Reference
Group are underway.  In response to a request from C Weston for union
representatives to form part of the group, B Martin-Scott agreed this would be useful. 
In response to another question from C Weston regarding 5 of 8 days
attendance for core support days, B Martin-Scott advised this was originally
implemented when schools would have 3 or 4 probationer staff and the
organisational impact of them being absent at one time, was not manageable. 
B Martin-Scott advised this wording can be reviewed to strengthen the expectation of
probation staff being present and the importance of doing so for personal
development. 
13. ANY OTHER COMPETENT BUSINESS 
(i) P Johnstone advised a new policy is being rolled out in relation to the use of
removeable devices.  Due to increased risk, use of removeable devices is no
longer permitted and any use must be approved via business case which will
be determined on an exception only basis. In response to a question from
C Weston it was confirmed that forms were available online and P Johnstone
would forward a link. 
(ii) P Johnstone advised retention periods will be introduced to emails in phases
for staff groups over the coming months, with guidance available on Eric. 
(iii) S Devlin advised the Education Scotland bill was published by Scottish
Government last week and will be circulated to the Committee in due course. 
(iv) S Devlin advised guidance on use of mobile phones will be communicated as
soon as available.

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(v) Councillor Rebbeck extended his thanks to M Laurie for her work as
Convener over the past two years, and to Council Officers and Trade Unions
for their collegiate engagement contributing to the Joint Negotiating
Committee for Teaching Staff. 
(vi) Councillor Rebbeck thanked A McAuley, at her last meeting of the Joint
Negotiating Committee for Teaching Staff, for her work and commitment to the
Committee since its establishment.  C Weston echoed her thanks to A
McAuley for her dedication and hard work contributing to the instrumental
success of the JNCT. 
14. DATE OF NEXT MEETING 
9 September 2024 at 2:30pm in Room 10/11, Pullar House, Perth.