Minute of meeting of 17 September 2025
Perth and Kinross Council · 4 February 2026
Back to Finance and Resources Committee — 4 February 2026 and its agenda
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Perth and Kinross Council Finance and Resources Committee Employees Joint Consultative Committee Minute of hybrid meeting of the Employees Joint Consultative Committee held Meeting Room 410, 2 High Street, Perth on Wednesday 17 September 2025 at 1.30pm. Present: Representing Perth and Kinross Council: Councillors K Allan, S McCole and J Rebbeck. Present: Representing Trade Unions: S Topen-Cooper (NASUWT) C Weston (EIS) S Hope (UNISON) M Mackie (SSTA) In Attendance: L Hamilton, P Johnstone, E Bayne, L McGeorge, F MacKay, D Black, S Stephen, A McConnachie. Apologies: D MacLuskey and N Ferry. S Hope in the Chair. 1. Welcome and Apologies S Hope welcomed all present to the meeting and apologies were noted as above. 2. Declarations of Interest There were no declarations of interest made in terms of the Councillors’ Code of Conduct. 3. Minute of Meeting of Employees Joint Consultative Committee of 16 June 2025 The minute of meeting of the Employees Joint Consultative Committee of 16 June 2025 was submitted and approved as a correct record. 4. Matters Arising (i) End Violence at Work Charter P Johnstone advised information on this has been provided to Unison.
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5. Health and Safety Performance Report Quarter 1 2025/26 – April – June 2025 There was a report submitted by the Health and Safety Team Leader (G/25/127) informing and assisting the Employees Joint Consultative Committee in monitoring health and safety compliance and performance across Perth and Kinross Council and providing an overview of health and safety activities undertaken. In response to a question from Councillor McCole regarding medication errors, L Hamilton advised prevention actions with managers in the relevant teams and discussions have taken place with the Health and Safety Team to look at ways to reduce the number of incidents. L Hamilton agreed to bring an update to the next meeting of the Committee. Councillor McCole added she will also raise with the Health and Social Care Partnership. In response to a question from S Topen-Cooper regarding differing fire regulations and doors in schools, L Hamilton advised that differences may not be a fire safety issue but contractual and the most appropriate adjustment will depend on individual circumstances. Resolved: (i) L Hamilton to speak to colleagues in the Health and Social Care Partnership about Medication Errors and report update at the next meeting of the Committee. (ii) The contents of Report G/25/127, be noted. 6. Fire Safety Performance Report – Quarter 1 2025/26 – April – June 2025 There was a report submitted by the Health and Safety Team Leader (G/25/128) informing and assisting the Employees Joint Consultative Committee in monitoring fire safety performance across Perth and Kinross Council and providing an overview of fire safety activities undertaken. In response to a request from Councillor McCole regarding updates on outstanding items, L McGeorge advised projects are ongoing and agreed to bring an update to the next meeting. L Hamilton added that managers have been reminded of reporting requirements. In response to a question from Councillor McCole regarding fire service attendance, L McGeorge advised attendance is only when a fire is confirmed, with exceptions for linked systems in Council sleeping accommodation. Resolved: (i) L McGeorge to provide update on outstanding fire safety actions at next meeting. (ii) The contents of Report G/25/128, be noted.
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7. Health and Wellbeing Update There was a report submitted by the People and Culture Manager (G/25/129) providing an update on current Health and Wellbeing data and current Health and Wellbeing activities. E Bayne highlighted the downturn in staff absences and added while not mentioned in the report details of the flu vaccine program that will be published shortly. In response to a question from Councillor McCole regarding the possibility of “drop-ins” for staff for Winter vaccines in Pullar House, E Bayne advised the Health and Social Care Partnership have their own arrangements around vaccines and did not think there was any scope for this. In response to a question from Councillor McCole regarding the recent procurement of the Occupational Health service and whether the unions were involved, P Johnstone advised the unions were involved in the previous tender process and the same terms were used for this tender. However, the most recent procurement had been undertaken nationally, and it is not known if unions were engaged. Locally, we still have to negotiate with the agreed provider, People Asset Management about our local service requirements. Councillor McCole encouraged engagement on local service requirements with the unions and S Hope said he would want to input. In response to a question from M Mackie about the effect of staff absences on staff ratios to pupils with ASN and class size maximums, F MacKay advised staffing standards are part of the DSM policy which sets out agreed staffing ratios. It is an area that is regularly reviewed to ensure ratios remain appropriate. In response to a question from Councillor McCole about how an aging workforce might cope with physically demanding work, P Johnstone advised as part of future workforce planning the Council are looking at what services they will be expected to deliver in the future along with the workforce needed to deliver the Council’s priorities. S Topen-Cooper asked if the difference between short- and long-term absences could be separated in the next report and E Bayne said he will speak to systems colleagues. In response to a question from S Hope about who decides when something is classed as an industrial injury and what benefits arise from the absence being classed as an industrial injury, L Hamilton advised that there is a section on the fitness for work note that asks if the absence is “work-related.” This would be considered, along with whether an incident has been reported as a work- related injury and E Bayne advised that depending how an absence is recorded could affect staff’s entitlement to sickness allowance.
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S Hope did not think this approach to recording absences as industrial injuries is being applied council wide. E Bayne and P Johnstone said they would review guidance and share with unions. Resolved: The contents of Report G/25/129, be noted. 8. Staff Reporting: Incidents of Violence/Aggression and incidents of Distressed/Challenging Behaviour in Education Settings – Term 4 2024/25 There was a report submitted by the Quality Improvement Manager, Inclusion and Additional Support, and Inclusion Quality Improvement Officer (G/25/130) on Education and Learning’s performance in managing and reducing staff reports of incidents of distressed, challenging, violent, or aggressive behaviour that have impacted staff in the workplace. It also provides a summary of the information gathered in Term 4 of academic year 2024/25 in relation to staff reports of incidents in schools and other educational settings and information on the activity of an established Reducing Challenging Behaviour Working Group to prevent and reduce the number of incidents. In response to C Weston, S Hope and S Topen-Cooper feeling the decrease in the number of reported incidents was not reflective of what is happening but is instead apathy from school staff when it comes to filling in the form as they feel nothing changes following a report, F MacKay advised that it is recognised that it can be challenging working in schools and that staff are encouraged to report incidents. This was reinforced in a recent communications bulletin that went out to headteachers in all schools. In response to discussion about consequences for pupils involved in incidents with staff with views shared by S Hope, Councillor Allan, S Topen-Cooper and C Weston; F MacKay advised there is ongoing work on behaviour and that the primary focus is to reduce dysregulation or distress that can lead to an incident. At times situations can lead to discussions with headteachers about exclusions where time is needed to review planning for the child involved and that in these situations headteachers are supported to think through the legality of exclusion, as equalities legislation needs to be considered where a child with ASN is involved. S Hope raised the difficulties there are recruiting PSAs, Councillor Rebbeck acknowledged the role has become more challenging in the last few years. They are being provided with better training opportunities and work is ongoing to establish some career progression. In response to S Topen-Cooper asking about getting ‘zero tolerance’ posters in PKC schools, F Mackay said that it is easy to say there should be zero tolerance but implementation of a zero-tolerance approach within education would often be unworkable. It is important to remember that the majority of
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children involved have additional support needs and are in the early stages of primary school. She suggested taking further discussion on this to the Reducing Challenging Behaviour Working Group which the union reps who sit on this committee are part of. Councillor McCole said she would take zero tolerance posters as an action to follow up which Councillor Allan said he was happy to support. Councillor Rebbeck said any positive message we can give staff that we care is welcome, but a poster and a policy are different things. Both C Weston and S Topen-Cooper said they have been asking for posters for years. C Weston wanted her disappointment at the lack of action noted and S Topen-Cooper wanted it noted that other Councils have them and that he felt the Councillors at committee are in favour of them. Resolved: The contents of Report G/25/130, be noted. 9. Modern Apprentice Programme – Update There was a report submitted by the Corporate People and Culture Manager (G/25/131) providing an update on the achievements of the Councils’ Modern Apprentice Programme over the past year. P Johnstone added in terms of promoting the Modern Apprentice scheme they have good links with colleges, and the Economic Development Team look at employability and graduate opportunities which are not just Modern Apprentices at PKC. In response to Councillor Allan asking if PKC had a graduate scheme P Johnstone advised they currently did not. Councillor McCole said the report was fantastic and great news. She asked if the young people offered work experience when Perth High School was being built were part of the Modern Apprentice programme and P Johnstone advised they were not part of the PKC offer but may have been part of the community benefit package as part of procurement. Resolved: The contents of Report G/25/131, be noted. 10. Smarter Working P Johnstone gave a verbal update: PKC took ownership of Pullar House and Kinnoull Street car park on 11 September. Office moves are taking place within 2 High Street and Pullar House. Parking space arrangements have changed, and they are now linked to roles and not specific people.
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Travel hierarchy is being reinforced. Those allocated a parking space are expected to have to use their own car for work while additional pool cars are sourced. In future it is hoped there will be no need for staff to use their own cars. Councillor McCole asked about the staff who had transferred to PKC from Horizon Parking following the purchase of the car park and P Johnstone advised a total of 6 staff transferred from different employers and no issues so far. Resolved: The update was noted. 11. Disclosure Scotland P Johnstone gave a verbal update: Continuing to implement changes following new legislation in April. There are a number of people who have still not completed disclosure checks including those on maternity leave or sick and there will be a requirement they do that when they are returning to work. Lifetime membership of the scheme has been replaced by 5 year renewals where PKC will be asked if a person is still of interest to them and if they are still doing regulated work. They will not have to pay for this. Councillor Rebbeck said he had been asked by a couple of schools if the legislation has changed for volunteers doing trips, discos etc and was directed to guidance on Disclosure Scotland’s website and PKC’s People & Culture documentation on the website. Resolved: The update was noted. 12. Any Other Competent Business S Hope wanted to thank Fiona Thomson who put a lot into this committee and is leaving the Council. 13. Date of Next Meeting 3 December 2025